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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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I love it! Hypocrites that claim they are for development and building a stronger Jersey City until development is proposed in their own backyard. It's the same thing with the Hilltop people up in Journal Square. Literally 100 yards from the PATH station and 20 yards from one of the tallest buildings in Jersey City but would rather the site stay a parking lot.

I wonder if this is the mindset of those against this development: I spent a lot of money to live in this historic district, and I'll be damned if I let anyone else move in nearby that didn't pay as much as me. Cry me a river.

Posted on: 2015/5/28 16:28
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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This site is approved under a Redevelopment Plan for 7 stories, like Charles & Co and the building going in at the former Borinquen site.

Posted on: 2015/5/28 16:22
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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Fomite wrote:
Wow! Do you live in the historical district? Did you see the plans for this building? Do you own a building that you restored to it's historical glory? I'm guessing its a big fat NO.

I'm all for development as well, but these plans do not fit into this neighborhood. End of story.



No, it's not end of story. I'm all for historic preservation, but this particular site is not by any means historic and fronts Christopher Columbus Rd. I fail to see how restoring a historic building down the street from new development somehow gives you veto rights over that development. Had this been at Barrow and Newark, then I would be right there with you righting this development, it would be way out of context. Christopher Columbus is a major street and is fair game for intensification.

Posted on: 2015/5/28 16:15
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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Wow! Do you live in the historical district? Did you see the plans for this building? Do you own a building that you restored to it's historical glory? I'm guessing its a big fat NO.

I'm all for development as well, but these plans do not fit into this neighborhood. End of story.


Posted on: 2015/5/28 16:04
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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For those interested, here's a link to the current development plan: http://www.jerseycitynj.gov/uploadedF ... 7%20Columbus%20Corner.pdf

Posted on: 2015/5/28 1:37
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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ActionDan wrote:
This is probably a stupid question, but why would Two Boots oppose a high-rise in the neighborhood for business reasons? Wouldn't more people (many without cars) be good for their business?


Hi! I had to register to express my frustration at Two Boots. I love their pizza, but if the original post reflects the opinions of their owners, I'll be boycotting that establishment! I love Jersey City, and it's entering an exciting new phase with all these developments. It's only getting better, and I will not support a business actively standing in the way of making a better city for selfish or misguided reasons.

And wouldn't a responsible business owner that relies on street traffic be supportive of new high incomer earners living in the neighborhood? Their position shows an anti city building bias. Where would Two Boots be had there been no Jersey City renaissance or development around Grove.

I say bring on the tower, and it's a shame it's not of higher density. What really matters is the design of the building, so it fits into the neighborhood at street level, especially the bottom six floors. I think I read that this building which subsequently approved, which is great news and means our city council doesn't pander to a minority of illogical loud mouths.

Don't worry Two Boots, this new business will probably increase your bottom line, in-spite of your anti-city building attitude.

Posted on: 2015/5/28 0:44
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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VVPA will be hosting another meeting on this project on June 2 at 7 pm in Barrow Mansion. See vvpa.org for details.

Posted on: 2015/5/27 17:40
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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Actually, in that regard I give The Gannon some props. They also have street level parking, but it was done in such a way as to not seem so out of place. It is "hidden" behind garage doors (so no gaping holes to stare into) and, as far as I can remember, the doors mesh with the rest of the building aesthetics. Unless you know to look for it, the parking can actually be missed.


Glad to hear. Garages are necessary utilities and should be decorated that way. After all, everyone wants to have good sewer and drainage infrastructure but nobody wants to actually see the stuff function.


Parking is a necessary utility? More like an optional amenity. If your building doesn't have parking, you could rent a parking spot somewhere else or not own a car.

Posted on: 2015/5/21 19:20
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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Actually, in that regard I give The Gannon some props. They also have street level parking, but it was done in such a way as to not seem so out of place. It is "hidden" behind garage doors (so no gaping holes to stare into) and, as far as I can remember, the doors mesh with the rest of the building aesthetics. Unless you know to look for it, the parking can actually be missed.


Glad to hear. Garages are necessary utilities and should be decorated that way. After all, everyone wants to have good sewer and drainage infrastructure but nobody wants to actually see the stuff function.

Posted on: 2015/5/21 16:33
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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Sommerman wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
does anyone know what is going up at 225 bay street?


It's condos, similar to The Gannon on First Street (emulating 19th Century rowhouses).
is this developer planning to lose money? why didn't he build an 18-story tower?


Both the Gannon and 225 Bay are within the Harsimus Cove H.D. so there is more control. I was told that the first floor would be parking; I hope that's not true.


Actually, in that regard I give The Gannon some props. They also have street level parking, but it was done in such a way as to not seem so out of place. It is "hidden" behind garage doors (so no gaping holes to stare into) and, as far as I can remember, the doors mesh with the rest of the building aesthetics. Unless you know to look for it, the parking can actually be missed.

Posted on: 2015/5/21 15:25
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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hero69 wrote:
Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
does anyone know what is going up at 225 bay street?


It's condos, similar to The Gannon on First Street (emulating 19th Century rowhouses).
is this developer planning to lose money? why didn't he build an 18-story tower?


Both the Gannon and 225 Bay are within the Harsimus Cove H.D. so there is more control. I was told that the first floor would be parking; I hope that's not true.

Posted on: 2015/5/21 13:47
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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hero69 wrote:
does anyone know what is going up at 225 bay street?


It's condos, similar to The Gannon on First Street (emulating 19th Century rowhouses).


Hopefully it will be a different developer with a better interior architect! I went to see those units and they were incredibly odd in their layouts and design choices. And, they are way over priced.

Posted on: 2015/5/21 9:26
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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tommyc_37 wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
does anyone know what is going up at 225 bay street?


It's condos, similar to The Gannon on First Street (emulating 19th Century rowhouses).
is this developer planning to lose money? why didn't he build an 18-story tower?

Posted on: 2015/5/21 5:04
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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hero69 wrote:
does anyone know what is going up at 225 bay street?


It's condos, similar to The Gannon on First Street (emulating 19th Century rowhouses).

Posted on: 2015/5/21 3:31
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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does anyone know what is going up at 225 bay street?

Posted on: 2015/5/21 2:14
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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JGJDNYCJC wrote:
I don't know why more builders aren't following the LHN model where all parking is tucked away.

See e.g., 18Park, Gulls Cove, 225 Grand, 10 Regent, et al. All streetscapes have either retail, housing, or both. There's plenty of parking in all of the buildings for rent or sale. The JC lifestyle is about transit to work with car use on weekends. It's a great alternative to the transit-only life in NYC, which is an appeal unique to JC/Hoboken this close to Manhattan.


I think your weekend-car-use view is a nice sentiment but in 20 years it is going to be scoffed at, how much parking we have here in Downtown JC and how ridiculous it is.

In cases where mass transit is not sufficient, people will:

- use a car share like ZipCar
- people will take an Uber

People in incredibly dense, urban cities - like JC, specifically downtown JC - will continue to move away from the car lifestyle.

People are bringing their cars here because the developments are enabling it. The units will sell with or without parking! The parking enablement kills neighborhood vibrancy, and clogs up the streets with people honking their horns, and it will continue to get worse. Stop including parking and cut off the car culture!

It is a massive, massive failure and it just continues! As MaybeMoving said, it is amazing that more people don't see this as a massive problem.

Posted on: 2015/5/21 1:56
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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RE: GOOGLE EARTH MAP

I've been adding buildings to this project for over a month - a personal project I've been sharing with Downtown Coalition of Neighborhood Associations (DCNA)- slowly reading the different RDPs and mimicking the JC Development map from planning dept. It's stuck in my computer and I take a screen grab when we need to illustrate something. I haven't published them because I have nowhere to upload them to get a link to show on JCList. Hamilton Park Assn. has been using the screen grabs - like the one I posted, I grabbed its link to the post the image.

It's crazy to see it all assembled - and yes it's color coded at RED - under construction, ORANGE - approved, YELLOW - proposed and WHITE - Amendment in the works or being shopped around town.

I have all of downtown, Liberty Harbor, Hoboken on Observer Hwy, and the start of Journal Square (that's a messy one).



Posted on: 2015/5/20 23:06
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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I don't know why more builders aren't following the LHN model where all parking is tucked away.

See e.g., 18Park, Gulls Cove, 225 Grand, 10 Regent, et al. All streetscapes have either retail, housing, or both. There's plenty of parking in all of the buildings for rent or sale. The JC lifestyle is about transit to work with car use on weekends. It's a great alternative to the transit-only life in NYC, which is an appeal unique to JC/Hoboken this close to Manhattan.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 21:08
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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I agree with Tommyc here. This parking BS in new developments has got to stop. The key to making these developments part of a vibrant neighborhood is to not disengage from the streetscape by putting in a hideous parking garage in the first floor (or several floors) of every building. It's going to make downtown JC look like Tulsa and has absolutely no place in a historic neighborhood with excellent public transport 10 mins from NYC.

I disagree with a variance for the height because it is out of context for the neighborhood but my biggest problem is far and away the inevitable ugly-as-sin ground floor parking. It absolutely destroys streetscapes and I can't believe more people don't have a fit about it.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 21:04
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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K-Lo wrote:
I may be wrong, but I thought they said they were providing retail on the CC front.


They'd have to be idiots not to. 10 years ago, buildings didn't include lots of retail because the area wasn't dense enough for those retail rents to be worth much. Right now, the retail space on a street like Grove, CC, Marin, Newark, etc - is probably the most valuable part of any development.


Posted on: 2015/5/20 20:05
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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I may be wrong, but I thought they said they were providing retail on the CC front.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 19:51
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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Agreed on the no parking on first floor, ever. The Rosina completely destroys that corner - what an irreversible shame. It's an otherwise decent looking building.

Why doesn't the buildings department mandate that there must be retail on all street level frontage? Time and time again, one building at a time, Jersey City is permanently destroying an opportunity to shine, and build something special. You can count on one hand the developments in downtown JC that got it right. In fact, you'd probably have a hard time filling that one hand.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 19:04
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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JC Devil, I like that idea. I just wish the city would respect the current residents and enforce some kind of standards.

But then again they are not even enforcing the historic zoning.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 18:52
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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tommyc_37 wrote:

That's really bad. Why wouldn't it be on Columbus, if anything?

The whole garage entrance kills the streetscape no matter where it is, though. I really wish somebody would have the balls to build a development without parking. This is one block from the Grove path!!! The units will sell with or without parking!!!

Backwards, backwards, backwards.


I assume it's because they want retail frontage on the more valuable/visible Columbus side. But, the fact is that a garage entrance does not have to significantly break up the streetscape. We just have to demand that the city force the developer to make better (slightly more expensive) choices on how to incorporate it.

They should not allow first-floor parking. Ever. Direct ramp to the basement, or direct ramp to the second (or even third) floor. First floor should be retail only.

They should require doors to be integrated into the building design. For instance, in one of the best buildings in Chicago, the Legacy, this is the garage door, and without the "no parking" signs, you would barely know:

Resized Image


Two simple, relatively inexpensive things, and you can have a building with both a quality streetscape and a parking garage for residents.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 18:46
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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Any retail included in the plans for the Columbus side? I'm guessing that's a big fat no, but...

Posted on: 2015/5/20 17:42
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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Fomite wrote:
At the meeting last night the renderings included four levels of parking, so that all four floors on Barrow would be parking.
The garage entrance would be on Barrow between Columbus and Wayne. No doors, no windows, just a wall cars and machinery.


That's really bad. Why wouldn't it be on Columbus, if anything?

The whole garage entrance kills the streetscape no matter where it is, though. I really wish somebody would have the balls to build a development without parking. This is one block from the Grove path!!! The units will sell with or without parking!!!

Backwards, backwards, backwards.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 17:38
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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Developers said it will be hidden by a 'green' wall.

Candace O and Rolando were there. They heard the comments, and know that the community is watching what they do. Comments and discussion were cut short due to time. Candace gave out her email address, and will also take all the comments sent to Vvpanews@gmail.com...

First step for developers is to reopen Redevelopment Plan at the Planning Board.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 17:38
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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you are just punching holes in a wall.

it is what it is. the redevelopment plans were approved long ago, but the city will still give more. the street grid is not being "restored" where it never was. it will not provide light and air.



Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
DanL, in some ways the opposite is happening ... all those yellow towers you see to the left are on the terrible Metro Plaza site...

The new proposals would have through streets and open space in between all the buildings, making the waterfront more accessible than a SUPER huge, dirty, chaotic parking lot with alienating big box retail stores.


What tommyc_37 said is 100% on point, and that's one reason I asked if jklm would share the Google Earth sketch. From the angle pictured in the screenshot, it looks like a wall rising to the east of DTJC, but with the sketch on hand, we could fly over and through and see what it would actually look from different angles. I agree with tommyc_37 that once the street grids are restored, it will improve sight lines in DTJC. As it is, large swaths of DTJC are already blocked from eastern views because of the office buildings in Harborside Financial and the existing developments over there.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 17:27
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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Hidden? How do you hide four levels of parking and garage door ?

The Rosina did the best they could to "hide it" and that's one level. But having cars pass over the sidewalk into 4 floors of parking is going to make a huge impact. The lack of street level entrances will change the whole dynamic of a historic district.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 17:23
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Re: Gargantuan Tower Proposed for Barrow and Christopher Columbus
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THe parking seems fairly well hidden behind the building. 175 units (or thereabouts) with parking for 50 something, also displacing the current parking. The corner building is landmarked and the new building incorporates it.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 17:11
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