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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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have they started driving the pylons for the hotel yet? i noticed that they were driving something into the ground, and the apartment is already up.

Posted on: 2015/2/10 21:08
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Conformist wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
somewhere i mentioned that jersey city should require developers to put up stylish buildings in exchange for tax abatements instead of the ugly sh-t that is currently going up.

http://therealdeal.com/blog/2015/01/1 ... d-for-yotel-williamsburg/




Are you suggesting that is a stylish building?? That's a FUGLY design that is completely out of place with the character of its surroundings. I am all for development and improving neighborhoods (heck, I am almost always baffled by those that rant against gentrification) but this is atrocious overall. This is what the area looks like now:

Google Maps - Street View - 646 Lorimer St.


The new Yotel building is pretty silly, I agree, but given how atrocious that part of Williamsburg (really, all of Williamsburg...) looks now, I don't see what's worth saving about its current "character".


Regardless of what that particular area may look like now, there is a certain character to the surroundings. A good design and architect team could and should be able to come up with a design that meshes better into the neighborhood. It doesn't have to be like everything else around it, but it could complement it all. Heck, even modern buildings can complement a historic area by using and/or adapting certain elements.
well said, bootipodh

Posted on: 2015/1/15 21:32
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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Conformist wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
somewhere i mentioned that jersey city should require developers to put up stylish buildings in exchange for tax abatements instead of the ugly sh-t that is currently going up.

http://therealdeal.com/blog/2015/01/1 ... d-for-yotel-williamsburg/




Are you suggesting that is a stylish building?? That's a FUGLY design that is completely out of place with the character of its surroundings. I am all for development and improving neighborhoods (heck, I am almost always baffled by those that rant against gentrification) but this is atrocious overall. This is what the area looks like now:

Google Maps - Street View - 646 Lorimer St.


The new Yotel building is pretty silly, I agree, but given how atrocious that part of Williamsburg (really, all of Williamsburg...) looks now, I don't see what's worth saving about its current "character".


Regardless of what that particular area may look like now, there is a certain character to the surroundings. A good design and architect team could and should be able to come up with a design that meshes better into the neighborhood. It doesn't have to be like everything else around it, but it could complement it all. Heck, even modern buildings can complement a historic area by using and/or adapting certain elements.

Posted on: 2015/1/15 18:54
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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bodhipooh wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
somewhere i mentioned that jersey city should require developers to put up stylish buildings in exchange for tax abatements instead of the ugly sh-t that is currently going up.

http://therealdeal.com/blog/2015/01/1 ... d-for-yotel-williamsburg/




Are you suggesting that is a stylish building?? That's a FUGLY design that is completely out of place with the character of its surroundings. I am all for development and improving neighborhoods (heck, I am almost always baffled by those that rant against gentrification) but this is atrocious overall. This is what the area looks like now:

Google Maps - Street View - 646 Lorimer St.


The new Yotel building is pretty silly, I agree, but given how atrocious that part of Williamsburg (really, all of Williamsburg...) looks now, I don't see what's worth saving about its current "character".

Posted on: 2015/1/15 17:58
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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except that it's usually not the fat that gets cut --its the schools and essential services.

Posted on: 2015/1/15 16:43
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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hero69 wrote:
somewhere i mentioned that jersey city should require developers to put up stylish buildings in exchange for tax abatements instead of the ugly sh-t that is currently going up.

http://therealdeal.com/blog/2015/01/1 ... d-for-yotel-williamsburg/




Are you suggesting that is a stylish building?? That's a FUGLY design that is completely out of place with the character of its surroundings. I am all for development and improving neighborhoods (heck, I am almost always baffled by those that rant against gentrification) but this is atrocious overall. This is what the area looks like now:

Google Maps - Street View - 646 Lorimer St.

Posted on: 2015/1/15 14:19
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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somewhere i mentioned that jersey city should require developers to put up stylish buildings in exchange for tax abatements instead of the ugly sh-t that is currently going up.

http://therealdeal.com/blog/2015/01/1 ... d-for-yotel-williamsburg/



Posted on: 2015/1/15 13:20
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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FakeGreenDress wrote:
I don't think they're putting an elevator on the Marin side at all. From an article about the ADA compliance lawsuit: "In a document filed Thursday, the Port Authority agreed to construct an elevator at the southwest entrance to the station and a passenger vertical platform lift on the west side of the station."


How much you wanna bet that 2 of the 3 entrances will be closed at one time? :)
i think the port authority's only mission is to FCUK NJ, while spending lavishly in Manhattan..witness the glorious, but expensive PATH station at WTC.

Posted on: 2015/1/2 20:31
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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FakeGreenDress wrote:
I don't think they're putting an elevator on the Marin side at all. From an article about the ADA compliance lawsuit: "In a document filed Thursday, the Port Authority agreed to construct an elevator at the southwest entrance to the station and a passenger vertical platform lift on the west side of the station."


How much you wanna bet that 2 of the 3 entrances will be closed at one time? :)

Posted on: 2015/1/2 20:07
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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I don't think they're putting an elevator on the Marin side at all. From an article about the ADA compliance lawsuit: "In a document filed Thursday, the Port Authority agreed to construct an elevator at the southwest entrance to the station and a passenger vertical platform lift on the west side of the station."

Posted on: 2015/1/2 20:02
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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Voyeur wrote:


It looks pretty clear from the renderings that the Marin entrance to the Grove PATH will be closed for a very long time in order to create this hotel.



When the PA added elevators to the Newport station they closed the entrances for 2 years. We had to use the the old very narrow entrances that were in use in the early 90's.

Posted on: 2015/1/2 19:51
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Voyeur wrote:
Anyone interested in more up to date renderings of what the hotel will look like when built can find them here...


It looks pretty clear from the renderings that the Marin entrance to the Grove PATH will be closed for a very long time in order to create this hotel.


Agreed. That also makes sense if - to Hero's point - the closure of this entrance allows for the Port Authority to construct the disabled access elevator that the court ordered last year.

This would have to be a relatively substantial remodelling if you think about it. Right now the ticket barriers are down one flight of stairs from street level and then you walk down another flight to get to the platform level. A new ADA-compliant elevator would would have to bypass the current intermediate ticket hall descend direct to the platform level and then at the exit there would have to be a dedicated set of turnstiles to collect fares and also a ticket machine. Right now there is no space at the end of the Marin Boulevard tunnel entrance to place any of this.

You could put it at street level, but I can't see where there is space on the sidewalk to accommodate it. Or the PA could be planning to put the elevator at the other end by the Grove Street plaza, but surely that would mean closing the platform and train service if they attempted to do that.

Like JCMan says, this will probably be a major excavation that will take the Marin entrance out of commission for several months. And then add to that the year or so it will take to build the hotel after the elevator is in place. And there is no way the PA is going to keep that entrance open during hotel construction after that poor fella was killed by a falling tape measure at the site delivering sheet rock a couple of months back.

Posted on: 2015/1/2 19:28
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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Voyeur wrote:
Anyone interested in more up to date renderings of what the hotel will look like when built can find them here...


It looks pretty clear from the renderings that the Marin entrance to the Grove PATH will be closed for a very long time in order to create this hotel.

Posted on: 2015/1/2 19:08
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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Anyone interested in more up to date renderings of what the hotel will look like when built can find them here...
thanks this is a big improvement over the previous atrocity....though isn't there supposed to be an elevator down to the path trains for handicapped people. where is that? if the developer wants a 20 year abatement, the city should require this at a minimum. also, the hotel takes up TOO much sidewalk space...why are the developers so greedy? further, how does this hotel enhance the quality of life for dtjc

Posted on: 2015/1/2 19:02

Edited by hero69 on 2015/1/2 19:17:22
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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Anyone interested in more up to date renderings of what the hotel will look like when built can find them here...

Posted on: 2015/1/2 18:58
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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greenville wrote:
This is why I don't like the political system in Hudson county. One party controls all parts of the government. You get different choices of faces but not different choices in ideology which appears that you just figured out. I may not like Republicans but I rather have a couple of them in city and county government to keep the democratic political machines in check.
i believe for mayor shundler (a republican) used to hand out tax abatements like coaches hand out condoms


But you can argue that during the time Shundler was mayor Jersey City was up and coming and needed, not what it is now since DTJC has become good enough to stand on its own. But I just want another party that can fight back against the Democratic political machine but that may be just pipe dreams.


That's what primaries are for. But you do need people to stand up and fight. That doesn't always happen. Changes between parties mean very little. Areas of NJ with frequent changes in party control are just as corrupt.

Posted on: 2014/10/28 15:19
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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hero69 wrote:
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greenville wrote:
This is why I don't like the political system in Hudson county. One party controls all parts of the government. You get different choices of faces but not different choices in ideology which appears that you just figured out. I may not like Republicans but I rather have a couple of them in city and county government to keep the democratic political machines in check.
i believe for mayor shundler (a republican) used to hand out tax abatements like coaches hand out condoms


But you can argue that during the time Shundler was mayor Jersey City was up and coming and needed, not what it is now since DTJC has become good enough to stand on its own. But I just want another party that can fight back against the Democratic political machine but that may be just pipe dreams.

Posted on: 2014/10/28 0:18
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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An activist wrote on Facebook, there should be a debate between Councilman Fulop and Mayor Fulop.

Posted on: 2014/10/26 1:43
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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greenville wrote:
This is why I don't like the political system in Hudson county. One party controls all parts of the government. You get different choices of faces but not different choices in ideology which appears that you just figured out. I may not like Republicans but I rather have a couple of them in city and county government to keep the democratic political machines in check.
i believe for mayor shundler (a republican) used to hand out tax abatements like coaches hand out condoms

Posted on: 2014/10/26 0:28
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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This is why I don't like the political system in Hudson county. One party controls all parts of the government. You get different choices of faces but not different choices in ideology which appears that you just figured out. I may not like Republicans but I rather have a couple of them in city and county government to keep the democratic political machines in check.

Posted on: 2014/10/25 17:20
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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Posted on: 2014/10/25 16:46
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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Bubble_Tea wrote:
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Frank_M wrote:
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Bubble_Tea wrote:
Props to the Marriott team for having the skills and patience to navigate through Jersey City's maze of bureaucracy and corruption to get this deal done. It's businesses like these that are making JC a better place to live and bring growth and wealth to the community.


Do you know whether the developers? commitment to moving forward with the project was contingent on receiving a tax abatement? I didn?t read that anywhere. Sure they applied for one?it would have been foolish not to?but did they absolutely need it?



However the process works, I can tell you that the city is not giving away abatements where it knows it can secure equivalent development projects on the same land for the ordinary amount of tax revenue.

But as with all negotiations, it's hard to know what Mariott's "bottom line" was. I'm sure they began negotiations by asking for even more of a discount and the city began with less of a discount.


How can you "tell" this to us? You act like it's Fulop negotiating directly with the faceless Marriott.

The article at the start of this thread would seem to shed some light on what's really going on here:

"The hotel is a joint venture of four developers, some with political ties: former Hudson County Democratic bigwig Joe Panepinto; Ironstate Holdings, owned by David Barry and Michael Barry; FJG Columbus, controlled by former U.S. Rep. Frank Guarini; and KimmelLipson."

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... _street_path_station.html

Posted on: 2014/10/24 23:28
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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Frank_M wrote:
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Bubble_Tea wrote:
Props to the Marriott team for having the skills and patience to navigate through Jersey City's maze of bureaucracy and corruption to get this deal done. It's businesses like these that are making JC a better place to live and bring growth and wealth to the community.


Do you know whether the developers? commitment to moving forward with the project was contingent on receiving a tax abatement? I didn?t read that anywhere. Sure they applied for one?it would have been foolish not to?but did they absolutely need it?



However the process works, I can tell you that the city is not giving away abatements where it knows it can secure equivalent development projects on the same land for the ordinary amount of tax revenue.

But as with all negotiations, it's hard to know what Mariott's "bottom line" was. I'm sure they began negotiations by asking for even more of a discount and the city began with less of a discount.

Posted on: 2014/10/24 23:22
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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Bubble_Tea wrote:
Props to the Marriott team for having the skills and patience to navigate through Jersey City's maze of bureaucracy and corruption to get this deal done. It's businesses like these that are making JC a better place to live and bring growth and wealth to the community.


Do you know whether the developers? commitment to moving forward with the project was contingent on receiving a tax abatement? I didn?t read that anywhere. Sure they applied for one?it would have been foolish not to?but did they absolutely need it?

Posted on: 2014/10/24 21:34
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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Yvonne wrote:
I do not agree with some people that hotels do not use city services. Police department is a large part of the budget, hotels will encounter all types of problems that will tie up the police department. As an example, before Newport Mall was built, it was someone easy to have a cop response to a problem downtown. After the mall, they became tied up with petty crimes from stealing to other matters. Citizens then started complaining about police officers showing up the next day to take a report.


WHAT?? The hotel could staff a highly trained on-site security person around the clock for a fraction of the money they will pay in taxes over the 20 year abatement period. No way the city provides business services equal to the taxes local businesses pay, whether they have abatements or not.

Props to the Marriott team for having the skills and patience to navigate through Jersey City's maze of bureaucracy and corruption to get this deal done. It's businesses like these that are making JC a better place to live and bring growth and wealth to the community.

Posted on: 2014/10/24 21:25
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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Sully wrote:
Disgusting and shameful - to approve this turd of a building to hang over the not-easy-on-they-eyes glass-can-sorry-no-elevator-PATH-entrance... and give away so much for so little in return.

This has got to be one of the most commercially desirable spots in the city - and we're giving up millions in tax revenue, for something that will be an eyesore for decades, without extracting any meaningful benefits to the residents of the city.

Politics at its worst - shame on Mayor Fulop and city council for pushing this through.
let's face it, boy wonder no boy and he's no boy, more like healy in a sheep's clothing (healy-lite)

Posted on: 2014/10/24 9:55
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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Disgusting and shameful - to approve this turd of a building to hang over the not-easy-on-they-eyes glass-can-sorry-no-elevator-PATH-entrance... and give away so much for so little in return.

This has got to be one of the most commercially desirable spots in the city - and we're giving up millions in tax revenue, for something that will be an eyesore for decades, without extracting any meaningful benefits to the residents of the city.

Politics at its worst - shame on Mayor Fulop and city council for pushing this through.

Posted on: 2014/10/24 5:27
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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Yvonne wrote:
I do not agree with some people that hotels do not use city services. Police department is a large part of the budget, hotels will encounter all types of problems that will tie up the police department. As an example, before Newport Mall was built, it was someone easy to have a cop response to a problem downtown. After the mall, they became tied up with petty crimes from stealing to other matters. Citizens then started complaining about police officers showing up the next day to take a report.


I totally agree with you on that one Yvonne. Not only that, WHY ON EARTH is it necessary to offer an abatement to attract ANY kind of commercial property with PATH station access? That's has to be one of the most valuable locations in the city you can get.

Posted on: 2014/10/24 4:32
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Re: Jersey City seeks 20-year tax break for hotel outside Grove Street PATH station
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I do not agree with some people that hotels do not use city services. Police department is a large part of the budget, hotels will encounter all types of problems that will tie up the police department. As an example, before Newport Mall was built, it was someone easy to have a cop response to a problem downtown. After the mall, they became tied up with petty crimes from stealing to other matters. Citizens then started complaining about police officers showing up the next day to take a report.

Posted on: 2014/10/24 3:32
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Re: Jersey City Council grants 20-year tax exemption for Downtown hotel
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score09 wrote:
Tax abatement.

What's that? What is an abatement? In this particular case, it is a lessening of tax that this hotel will pay to the city over a twenty year period, right?

So, somebody please help me out here. Because it seems to me that a 152 room hotel at 80 Columbus ought pay approximately $1,000,000 (one million) to $1,500,000 (one million five hundred thousand) per year in property tax to the city. At least this amount. Am I close? So then, a million dollars per year amounts to twenty million over twenty years. So, twenty million in lost tax revenue is what all the hub bub is about.

But, there was talk of an 11 million dollar Payment In Lieu, so right there, were down to 9 million. And there were other sweeteners as well, further mitigating the "give-away."

Bottom line, in a city with 250,000 people, the amount paid by John Q. taxpayer for this abatement is negligible. The question in my mind is why are we allowing for another corporate entity to snake its way into the prime real estate zone. THIS will have lasting consequences. For a brief time, Jersey City was cool, but then came the capitalists, with their Marriots, and Westins and Hyatts. Who decided that this address -- 80 Columbus -- is fit for a corporate hotel entity? I'd rather a museum, concert hall or University building.
why? because money from developers talk in JC! i've been onto fulop and gang from day 1 and it might be ok/better if JC were hetting a half-way decent looking hotel instead of something that looks like it came out a mcdonald's happy meal

Posted on: 2014/10/24 2:54
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