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Re: White supremacy is the real culprit in Ferguson. The excuses just prove it
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Old-Skool-JC wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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Old-Skool-JC wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
[quote]

When I read stuff like this I start to think that dialogue is utterly pointless because people who think this way just cannot be reasoned with. The only solution is to advocate for martial law, put down the riots with all force necessary, and ignore the people that will always blame white people no matter what. They are true racists and you cannot reason with a true racist.


No, it's because you are incapable of arguing, only attacking and obfuscating and advocating more violence.


What is there to argue when the response to the facts presented is "this is because of white supremacists!" - a group that isn't remotely involved here?...


You are so dumb it hurts to even contemplate what it must be like to have read that article and come away thinking that the author was actually talking about a physical group of white supremacists.
Ultimately I pity you.


Don't pity me, I'm doing quite well in life. For one, I'm not feeling sorry for some thug that got gunned down by cops after robbing a store because "that could have been me/my kid/my family member!" So your claim with this is that it is "subtle white supremacist notions?" That is about as implausible. It just isn't involved here. If MB was white this wouldn't happen - not because he wouldn't be shot dead (he would) but because no one would care.


Posted on: 2014/8/21 14:20
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Is it racist to post Mike Brown's picture? I haven't seen this picture displayed in any American media outlets, only foreign ones. Despite probably showing what he looked like right before he attacked Officer Wilson.

Resized Image


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic ... rely-beaten-teenager.html

Posted on: 2014/8/21 13:39
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Re: White supremacy is the real culprit in Ferguson. The excuses just prove it
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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Old-Skool-JC wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
[quote]

When I read stuff like this I start to think that dialogue is utterly pointless because people who think this way just cannot be reasoned with. The only solution is to advocate for martial law, put down the riots with all force necessary, and ignore the people that will always blame white people no matter what. They are true racists and you cannot reason with a true racist.


No, it's because you are incapable of arguing, only attacking and obfuscating and advocating more violence.


What is there to argue when the response to the facts presented is "this is because of white supremacists!" - a group that isn't remotely involved here?...


You are so dumb it hurts to even contemplate what it must be like to have read that article and come away thinking that the author was actually talking about a physical group of white supremacists.
Ultimately I pity you.

Posted on: 2014/8/21 4:38
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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hero69 wrote:
suggestion: maybe the government should start a reparation fund for people of ferguson. put all the reparation money into a fund to pay for the college education of children from low income families from that area.


So Ferguson should be rewarded for immediately rioting and looting simply because the victim was black? All that will do is encourage others to violently riot in order to get free things.

My suggestion is that all business owners who have had their livelihoods destroyed over the looting and arson get some compensation from the government.


This.

Posted on: 2014/8/21 2:59
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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when is a reparation not a reparation? people have got to think out of the box! lol!

Posted on: 2014/8/21 2:51
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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i always find it useful to think about long term solutions to issues.

A long term solution to issues like this would be worth striving for. Are reparations it? IMO no, as it doesn't provide a long-term solution, such as increasing opportunity. Even putting aside the seemingly unbreachable racial divide, can we even provide solutions anymore? The selling out of our patrimony to Wall Street and foreign crooks makes me less optimistic.

Posted on: 2014/8/21 2:26
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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hero69 wrote:
i always find it useful to think about long term solutions to issues.


This man has a long term solution that he beautifully explains.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U

Posted on: 2014/8/21 1:40
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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i always find it useful to think about long term solutions to issues.

Posted on: 2014/8/21 1:39
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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hero69 wrote:
suggestion: maybe the government should start a reparation fund for people of ferguson. put all the reparation money into a fund to pay for the college education of children from low income families from that area.


So Ferguson should be rewarded for immediately rioting and looting simply because the victim was black? All that will do is encourage others to violently riot in order to get free things.

My suggestion is that all business owners who have had their livelihoods destroyed over the looting and arson get some compensation from the government.

Posted on: 2014/8/21 1:37
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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suggestion: maybe the government should start a reparation fund for people of ferguson. put all the reparation money into a fund to pay for the college education (at a reputable 4-year institution) of children from low income families from that area.

Posted on: 2014/8/21 1:31
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Monroe wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
Ferguson cop who shot dead Michael Brown 'was severely beaten by teenager'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic ... rely-beaten-teenager.html


It's racist to point this out, of course. And even if Brown did do it, it's not his fault.



Is it racist when a black guy points out the truth? I don't think it's possible to be more right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U

Posted on: 2014/8/21 1:02
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Not far from Ferguson, though there's video of this one:

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/s ... video-calls-city-shooting

Posted on: 2014/8/21 1:00
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JCMan8 wrote:
Ferguson cop who shot dead Michael Brown 'was severely beaten by teenager'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic ... rely-beaten-teenager.html


It's racist to point this out, of course. And even if Brown did do it, it's not his fault.


Posted on: 2014/8/20 23:34
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Someone please explain why this was made into a race issue? This would of happen no matter if he was the pink, yellow, or white power ranger trying to overpower a cop will get you shot as he/she fears for their life. The more this stupid circus show keeps on the more backwards we go in race relations in the United States.


It never should have been made into a race issue. The local black community in Ferguson made it into one, as protests and looting began almost immediately. Now that it seems like their community was completely wrong, and the killing was justifiable in self defense, national media outlets are attempting to justify the incorrect protests by trying to make this a broad race issue about "oppression" and "social injustice."


Posted on: 2014/8/20 23:27
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Someone please explain why this was made into a race issue? This would of happen no matter if he was the pink, yellow, or white power ranger trying to overpower a cop will get you shot as he/she fears for their life. The more this stupid circus show keeps on the more backwards we go in race relations in the United States.

Posted on: 2014/8/20 23:19
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Ferguson cop who shot dead Michael Brown 'was severely beaten by teenager'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic ... rely-beaten-teenager.html

Posted on: 2014/8/20 21:08
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Re: White supremacy is the real culprit in Ferguson. The excuses just prove it
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Old-Skool-JC wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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Old-Skool-JC wrote:
White supremacy is the real culprit in Ferguson... This is about the value of black life in 21st-century America.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisf ... cy-ferguson-black-excuses


When I read stuff like this I start to think that dialogue is utterly pointless because people who think this way just cannot be reasoned with. The only solution is to advocate for martial law, put down the riots with all force necessary, and ignore the people that will always blame white people no matter what. They are true racists and you cannot reason with a true racist.


No, it's because you are incapable of arguing, only attacking and obfuscating and advocating more violence.


What is there to argue when the response to the facts presented is "this is because of white supremacists!" - a group that isn't remotely involved here? At some point you come to the conclusion that reasonable compromise is entirely impossible, and that the only solution is a real clampdown. The last thing we need is for the US to become France with this kind of violence becoming routine and police standing by as rioters run amok. By the way, the same responses get thrown around there ("omg, it is because French people are RACIST against Musilms!"). They are far more accommodating than we are here, the government provides far more welfare and wealth redistribution and they have even more violence.

Posted on: 2014/8/20 20:41
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Black culture (at least American black) is AWFUL. Enough said.

Anyway, it's patently obvious the type of person you are. And what is a TRUE racist as opposed to say a fake racist? Are you the latter?

Sobering.

http://mic.com/articles/96452/one-sim ... lice-brutality-problem-is


Posted on: 2014/8/20 20:37
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Re: White supremacy is the real culprit in Ferguson. The excuses just prove it
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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Old-Skool-JC wrote:
White supremacy is the real culprit in Ferguson... This is about the value of black life in 21st-century America.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisf ... cy-ferguson-black-excuses


When I read stuff like this I start to think that dialogue is utterly pointless because people who think this way just cannot be reasoned with. The only solution is to advocate for martial law, put down the riots with all force necessary, and ignore the people that will always blame white people no matter what. They are true racists and you cannot reason with a true racist.


No, it's because you are incapable of arguing, only attacking and obfuscating and advocating more violence.

Posted on: 2014/8/20 19:33
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Yes Devils that is precisely what you and many others are saying. Here's your bingo card. I think growing up here many of you get the benefit of being oblivious to race and racial issues. Some whites, in particular my many white friends, however recognize it.

http://sassy-gay-justice.tumblr.com/image/94792171265


Ok, lets recap then:

Quote:
Here are your talking points: Blacks are predisposed to criminality;


This implies genetically. Where does ANYONE say that?

Quote:
their culture is horrible and they take no personal responsibility like white people


Yes, black culture (at least American black) is AWFUL and 100% responsible for this. Of course, this doesn't imply the point above.

Quote:
Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson hate white people because they haven't talked about black on black crime and fixed it yet


That isn't why they hate white people, but ok. I agree that they do in fact hate white people.

Quote:
-- although we haven't fixed white on white crime either;


Want me to compare statistics?

Quote:
and because blacks kill blacks, then it really shouldn't be a really big deal when whites (civilian or officers) kill blacks. End scene.


Link to anyone saying that? More like "here we have a cop that killed a guy that freakin' robbed a store and assaulted a guy working there 10 minutes earlier and probably attacked the cop and people are rioting over his death. Yet no one protested when this happened: http://abc7chicago.com/news/7-dead-29 ... weekend-shootings/267982/ (note: this isn't extraordinary for Chicago at all)." Basically, this entire situation defies all logic. Who or what would you say is responsible for this situation?

Posted on: 2014/8/20 19:13
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Re: White supremacy is the real culprit in Ferguson. The excuses just prove it
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Old-Skool-JC wrote:
White supremacy is the real culprit in Ferguson. The excuses just prove it.

We?ve had enough of the police brutality, of the colorblind mythologies and post-racial rhetoric, of the sweet-talk, of the calls for non-violence; of mass incarceration and systemic poverty, of trigger happy cops and crying black mothers, of the Eric Garners and Renisha McBrides, the Michael Browns and Tarika Wilsons; of black tears and white terror. Dr Martin Luther King Jr said in 1968: ?A riot is the language of the unheard?. Today, nearly 50 years later, black America demands to not only be heard but heeded ? by any means necessary.

This week in Ferguson, Missouri, there has been more backlash over the resistance of a few black (and some white) protestors than the violence of white police. Meanwhile, according to organizers on the ground, it has mainly been (white) outsiders inciting violence to promote their own agenda. As the writer Sarah Kendzior tweeted: ?White people coming to STL to provoke police violence against black residents and get them blamed?. More than blamed: black people are left to bear the brunt of the political mess white infiltration leaves behind, be it by the National Guard or outside organizers.

As Sean Beale, a 27-year-old local, told the Guardian: ?If you don?t live here you don?t worry about the burning and looting. You don?t worry about stores closing, or losing your job, or walking for miles to buy food.?

But to focus more on the people?s resistance than the police repression that created it ? even as tensions cooled in the streets on Monday night ? is to participate in the dehumanization and devaluing of black life. To ignore the elders rallying for the sake of our babies and young people peacefully protesting on behalf of our future while some (white) visitors instigate disarray is morally reprehensible. Beyond Ferguson, the pattern is clear. Blacks are always to blame, even as we are brutalized by police, ghettoized by neoliberal policies, and disenfranchised by a racist criminal (in)justice system.

But that?s the crux of white supremacist racial logic: the problem with black people is ? well, black people ? not mass incarceration and the deindustrialization of urban America, not educational inequality and generational poverty, not 400 years of slavery, lynchings, and Jim Crow. To be black in America is to be victimized and then made responsible for our victimization. We built this country. But, apparently, it is we who are lazy and dependent. We are bullied politically, socially and economically. But it is we who are called ?thugs?.

?There is never an excuse for violence against police,? President Obama said. Yet there are endless excuses for state violence against black people. For mass incarceration, there?s the ?war on drugs?. For poverty and unemployment, there?s ?a culture of laziness? and ?government dependence?. For the educational gap, there?s the burden of ?acting white?. For Eric Garner: ?loosies?. And for Michael Brown, there are stolen cigarillos, jaywalking or anything the police can say to shift the narrative from their white supremacist practices to black ?ghetto? culture.

It is to say that black lives do not matter, that our babies deserve death and despair, that our communities don?t deserve protection and justice.

Obama needs post-racialism like Bush needed the ?war on terror?: to camouflage our contradictions, to exercise global dominance vis-?-vis a (neo)liberal-democratic narrative, to lie to the world. But with the numbers of black bodies unemployed, incarcerated and extrajudicially executed, what are to we to do?

No one person knows.

But we must act collectively and courageously. Alongside the immediate arrest of Darren Wilson, we must demand the demilitarization of law enforcement as well as the decriminalization of the black body. In addition to the withdrawal of the curfew and National Guard, we must demand the withdrawal of apartheid police forces and local governments where a black majority is ruled by a white minority. We cannot depend on the same police force that killed Brown to liberate us. In Ferguson and across the nation we must push for the implementation of community-oriented police models that include prevention, problem-solving, citizen engagement and community partnerships. There needs to be a cop-watch program in every city across America with a high concentration of people of color.

Also, we must recognize that naming Wilson as the killer without naming white supremacy as the culprit fails to address the root of racialized police violence. We must recognize, as Malcolm X did, that police brutality is a human rights issue that will not be solved simply by the passing of legislation. Our rallies must spark revolutionary action. Our marching must evolve into a sustainable movement. We must see that this is bigger than Brown and Wilson, than Ferguson or New York City. This is about the value of black life in 21st-century America.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisf ... cy-ferguson-black-excuses


When I read stuff like this I start to think that dialogue is utterly pointless because people who think this way just cannot be reasoned with. The only solution is to advocate for martial law, put down the riots with all force necessary, and ignore the people that will always blame white people no matter what. They are true racists and you cannot reason with a true racist.

Posted on: 2014/8/20 18:50
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Re: White supremacy is the real culprit in Ferguson. The excuses just prove it
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Old-Skool-JC wrote:
"Obama needs post-racialism like Bush needed the ?war on terror?: to camouflage our contradictions, to exercise global dominance vis-?-vis a (neo)liberal-democratic narrative..."


I'm highlighting this one quote from Nyle Fort's commentary, not to take it out of context but rather to put my view of the underlying problems in a bigger context - that of the slow death of the middle-class, and the closing of a door that we, as a nation, might have been able to open to enable better futures for young black people in particular, if not all Americans.

I want my "side" in this to be part of the solution, although I don't have a solution - on the one hand, as a white man who grew up in a poor rural (99.9% white) community, in a working class family (my dad did seasonal work at the local apple orchard, when money was tight) I reject out of experience the concept of "white privilege". Having said that, I do believe systemic racism is not so easily escaped.

As Nyle Fort concluded we need to move forward decisively - and IMO no solution to the racial divide - even if one believes we are living in a "post-racial" period will happen without addressing the growing economic chasm, which is closing doors left and right, leaving an ever increasing % of Americans fighting over what few scraps are left. Now may not be the best time for a book plug, but Noam Chomsky's 'Profit over People - Neo-Liberalism and Global Order" illustrates how our ability to change is diminishing.

Posted on: 2014/8/20 18:23
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Posted on: 2014/8/20 17:55
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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VanVorster wrote:
Dude, I haven't hitched my wagon to any cause or sided with any position.


That was what I thought until you posted that link. I expected better from you. That link acts like "wait until the facts are in" is a white thing to say.

That link is vile and has clearly taken the position that the officer is guilty and it is racist to say otherwise.

Posted on: 2014/8/20 17:49
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Dude, I haven't hitched my wagon to any cause or sided with any position. I said before, none of us knows what happened so I'm not categorically assuming that it was Mike Brown's fault (and justified self-defense) nor that the officer is guilty. However, many of you are speak with such authority like you know and then interjecting but black crime!, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, horrible culture, he charged the officer, Tawana Brawley, Reverse Racism, The Black Panthers and whatever random irrelevant issue you can throw in there. It's pathetic.

Posted on: 2014/8/20 17:46
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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VanVorster wrote:
Yes Devils that is precisely what you and many others are saying. Here's your bingo card. I think growing up here many of you get the benefit of being oblivious to race and racial issues. Some whites, in particular my many white friends, however recognize it.

http://sassy-gay-justice.tumblr.com/image/94792171265


Is this nonsense supposed to mean something? It says "you don't know all the facts" like that is a bad thing to say.

You've hitched your wagon to the wrong cause and are losing all credibility.

Posted on: 2014/8/20 17:37
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Yes Devils that is precisely what you and many others are saying. Here's your bingo card. I think growing up here many of you get the benefit of being oblivious to race and racial issues. Some whites, in particular my many white friends, however recognize it.

http://sassy-gay-justice.tumblr.com/image/94792171265

Posted on: 2014/8/20 17:08
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White supremacy is the real culprit in Ferguson. The excuses just prove it
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White supremacy is the real culprit in Ferguson. The excuses just prove it.

We?ve had enough of the police brutality, of the colorblind mythologies and post-racial rhetoric, of the sweet-talk, of the calls for non-violence; of mass incarceration and systemic poverty, of trigger happy cops and crying black mothers, of the Eric Garners and Renisha McBrides, the Michael Browns and Tarika Wilsons; of black tears and white terror. Dr Martin Luther King Jr said in 1968: ?A riot is the language of the unheard?. Today, nearly 50 years later, black America demands to not only be heard but heeded ? by any means necessary.

This week in Ferguson, Missouri, there has been more backlash over the resistance of a few black (and some white) protestors than the violence of white police. Meanwhile, according to organizers on the ground, it has mainly been (white) outsiders inciting violence to promote their own agenda. As the writer Sarah Kendzior tweeted: ?White people coming to STL to provoke police violence against black residents and get them blamed?. More than blamed: black people are left to bear the brunt of the political mess white infiltration leaves behind, be it by the National Guard or outside organizers.

As Sean Beale, a 27-year-old local, told the Guardian: ?If you don?t live here you don?t worry about the burning and looting. You don?t worry about stores closing, or losing your job, or walking for miles to buy food.?

But to focus more on the people?s resistance than the police repression that created it ? even as tensions cooled in the streets on Monday night ? is to participate in the dehumanization and devaluing of black life. To ignore the elders rallying for the sake of our babies and young people peacefully protesting on behalf of our future while some (white) visitors instigate disarray is morally reprehensible. Beyond Ferguson, the pattern is clear. Blacks are always to blame, even as we are brutalized by police, ghettoized by neoliberal policies, and disenfranchised by a racist criminal (in)justice system.

But that?s the crux of white supremacist racial logic: the problem with black people is ? well, black people ? not mass incarceration and the deindustrialization of urban America, not educational inequality and generational poverty, not 400 years of slavery, lynchings, and Jim Crow. To be black in America is to be victimized and then made responsible for our victimization. We built this country. But, apparently, it is we who are lazy and dependent. We are bullied politically, socially and economically. But it is we who are called ?thugs?.

?There is never an excuse for violence against police,? President Obama said. Yet there are endless excuses for state violence against black people. For mass incarceration, there?s the ?war on drugs?. For poverty and unemployment, there?s ?a culture of laziness? and ?government dependence?. For the educational gap, there?s the burden of ?acting white?. For Eric Garner: ?loosies?. And for Michael Brown, there are stolen cigarillos, jaywalking or anything the police can say to shift the narrative from their white supremacist practices to black ?ghetto? culture.

It is to say that black lives do not matter, that our babies deserve death and despair, that our communities don?t deserve protection and justice.

Obama needs post-racialism like Bush needed the ?war on terror?: to camouflage our contradictions, to exercise global dominance vis-?-vis a (neo)liberal-democratic narrative, to lie to the world. But with the numbers of black bodies unemployed, incarcerated and extrajudicially executed, what are to we to do?

No one person knows.

But we must act collectively and courageously. Alongside the immediate arrest of Darren Wilson, we must demand the demilitarization of law enforcement as well as the decriminalization of the black body. In addition to the withdrawal of the curfew and National Guard, we must demand the withdrawal of apartheid police forces and local governments where a black majority is ruled by a white minority. We cannot depend on the same police force that killed Brown to liberate us. In Ferguson and across the nation we must push for the implementation of community-oriented police models that include prevention, problem-solving, citizen engagement and community partnerships. There needs to be a cop-watch program in every city across America with a high concentration of people of color.

Also, we must recognize that naming Wilson as the killer without naming white supremacy as the culprit fails to address the root of racialized police violence. We must recognize, as Malcolm X did, that police brutality is a human rights issue that will not be solved simply by the passing of legislation. Our rallies must spark revolutionary action. Our marching must evolve into a sustainable movement. We must see that this is bigger than Brown and Wilson, than Ferguson or New York City. This is about the value of black life in 21st-century America.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisf ... cy-ferguson-black-excuses

Posted on: 2014/8/20 16:45
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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JCMan8 wrote:
Of course if this turns out to be true, will we see any apologies for what occurred? Even a tiny hint of personal responsibility? Doubtful.

I?ll posit the question again? When has any culture or civilization ever taken personal responsibility for anything stupid, wrong or dishonest?

Is the Catholic Church apologizing for shuttling pedophiles throughout the world and hiding money so that they won?t have to pay out lawsuits?
Is W apologizing for getting the US into a war in Iraq?
Are the Chinese apologizing for the murder of college kids at Tiananmen Square?
How about the British for their role in enslaving people and then shipping them to other countries?


A friend's aunt fled Vienna after the Anschluss - she received a pension from West Germany from the age she would have been eligible until she died. She was just one of thousands.


Here's another example of responsibility for something wrong, when Clinton issued an official apology to the people of Hawaii for overthrowing the monarchy 100 years earlier:

http://www.hawaii-nation.org/acknowledges.html

Largely symbolic, yes, but it's something. Hawaii's representatives to Congress were happy.

Also, Japanese-Americans who were rounded up and put in camps in the USA after the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor were eligible to apply for compensation after World War II was over. Some got compensated, some didn't, some claims are still being settled, but it's a good example of personal responsibility for something that was wrong.

I doubt the looters are organized or intelligent enough to acknowledge any personal responsibility, if they are even intelligent enough to see the error of their ways, which I doubt.

Posted on: 2014/8/20 16:45
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Pebble wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
Of course if this turns out to be true, will we see any apologies for what occurred? Even a tiny hint of personal responsibility? Doubtful.

I?ll posit the question again? When has any culture or civilization ever taken personal responsibility for anything stupid, wrong or dishonest?

Is the Catholic Church apologizing for shuttling pedophiles throughout the world and hiding money so that they won?t have to pay out lawsuits?
Is W apologizing for getting the US into a war in Iraq?
Are the Chinese apologizing for the murder of college kids at Tiananmen Square?
How about the British for their role in enslaving people and then shipping them to other countries?


A friend's aunt fled Vienna after the Anschluss - she received a pension from West Germany from the age she would have been eligible until she died. She was just one of thousands.

Posted on: 2014/8/20 16:31
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