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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
http://www.thetoptens.com/most-racist-countries/

The US wins every poll.


I don't find this surprising at all. Several of my black friends from college and grad school went abroad to raise their children/have families (Europe, Africa) and a few to the Caribbean. I think racism is just an intrinsic part of this country because it's in its DNA given its fraught history. I've always traveled abroad (Europe, South America, Central America, Caribbean, Canada) and I honestly feel less aware of being a POC elsewhere than I do in the United States. Many of my friends feel the same. I think because when traveling, foreigners take me for simply being American.

?Racism is so universal in this country, so widespread, and deep-seated, that it is invisible because it is so normal.?


? Shirley Chisholm

Posted on: 2014/7/24 19:09
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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VanVorster wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Heights, closed to 100% of black votes went to Obama in both elections, showing how they identify him. Of course, if close to 100% of white voters voted for the white candidates, it would be called racism.

So yes, black Americans overwhelmingly claim President Obama as their own, regardless of his bi-racial roots or where his father was from.


Um no, rather blacks had basic common sense in not casting their votes for McCain/Palin (the mere prospect of her being president if something happened to McCain is mind boggling) and Romney/Ryan (binders full of women, corporations are people, 47% of people are leeches when he hardly pays any taxes and a party that relishes going to war).

Also, sometimes mixed people identify as black in part because of how they are perceived and treated (I think Obama said something about him having trouble getting cabs in NYC when he was younger and saying the cab drivers weren't thinking, "oh my mom is white and I was raised by white people"). My father is basically bi-racial and that did not help him in the Jim Crow south. I swear the troglodytes on here, Geez Louise.


Uhhh, you must be joking. At least have the intellectual honesty to just admit that race was a huge factor in the almost unanimous black vote for Obama. You had black Republicans that always vote Republican like Colin Powell and Condi Rice suddenly flipping and supporting Obama. How do you account for that?

Seriously VV, you accusing me of racism is laughable. I at least acknowledge that I'm a cultural bigot. What do you admit to? Nothing, you just want to play the victim and never acknowledge your own biases. But carry on, it is getting you far in terms of convincing people.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 19:07
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
http://www.thetoptens.com/most-racist-countries/

The US wins every poll.


seems legit


Seriously, I love fawning over an internet poll. Good one, libs.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 19:00
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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Monroe wrote:
Heights, closed to 100% of black votes went to Obama in both elections, showing how they identify him. Of course, if close to 100% of white voters voted for the white candidates, it would be called racism.

So yes, black Americans overwhelmingly claim President Obama as their own, regardless of his bi-racial roots or where his father was from.


Um no, rather blacks had basic common sense in not casting their votes for McCain/Palin (the mere prospect of her being president if something happened to McCain is mind boggling) and Romney/Ryan (binders full of women, corporations are people, 47% of people are leeches when he hardly pays any taxes and a party that relishes going to war).

Also, sometimes mixed people identify as black in part because of how they are perceived and treated (I think Obama said something about him having trouble getting cabs in NYC when he was younger and saying the cab drivers weren't thinking, "oh my mom is white and I was raised by white people"). My father is basically bi-racial and that did not help him in the Jim Crow south. I swear the troglodytes on here, Geez Louise.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 18:54
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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Poverty and crime.

http://economics.fundamentalfinance.com/povertycrime.php

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The ln(Total Crime) model shows that holding the other variables constant, a 1% increase in poverty leads to a 2.16% increase in total crime. This coefficient is significant at the 0.6% level. The ln(Violent Crime) model shows that a 1% increase in poverty leads to a 2.57% increase in violent crime and is significant only at the 5.1% level.

...

Conclusion: Evidence greatly suggests that increases in poverty lead to increased violent crime. Evidence from this paper also suggests the same for all seven index crimes and careful studies can yield more verification of the matter.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 17:58
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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Heights, closed to 100% of black votes went to Obama in both elections, showing how they identify him. Of course, if close to 100% of white voters voted for the white candidates, it would be called racism.

So yes, black Americans overwhelmingly claim President Obama as their own, regardless of his bi-racial roots or where his father was from.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 17:12
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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VanVorster wrote:
Perhaps I wasn't clear. Yes, I agree with you simply knowing black people (or any other group for that matter) on a deep level does of course does not mean you know what "black people" are like as group/race. We're not a monolithic group anymore than whites are and the black experience is multi-faceted. However, I find that several of the posters on here are seemingly bereft of any context of history and oblivious to how life might operate for them (because they are white) versus others who have black skin; and just read the National Review and watch Fox News and profess to have all the answers (e.g. "blacks be like Asians," "just don't wear hoodies or saggy pants and you won't get shot, duh" "well maybe that guy provoked the cops into the chokehold and he shouldn't have been obese" "we're all the same, we're post racial damn it, we have a black man for President for Christ's sake"). And when one doesn't have any friends who aren't black (or Asian, Latino, Gay, Disabled), it can sometimes lead to nonsense like this incident with Bill O'Reilly. I have plenty of close white friends (since elementary school) and some have told me how much they've learned about race that they wouldn't otherwise have known or thought about. http://mediamatters.org/research/2007 ... o-difference-betwe/139893

Ignorance can be bliss or a way to inoculate oneself to realities. And what's truly sad is that once someone mentions race on here, some of you or rather the usual 5 or 6 people on here readily discount it like it's sheer nonsense make believe and in a very mean-spirited repugnant manner I might add. Perhaps give it some credence for those who actually endure it.
http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/17-things-yes-all-black-people/

Actually the president is half white, and his half African side is from his father who was born in Kenya in the continent of Africa. The president does not have a blood line of African American it starts with the president himself. So comparing the president to the plight of the many blacks in this country that trace their roots to the 1700's is moot.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 16:57
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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jctexan wrote:
If you look at the original study, you'll see the majority of the Asians are immigrants, where the language barrier and the choice to live in high-cost real estate areas, rather than institutional racism, keep them in poverty. This is also a fairly recent influx of immigrants (post 60s).

But if you truly see this as having the same impact systemically on an entire racial group in the U.S. generation after generation here, then there isn't really any point in discussing it. I mean that without any sarcasm.

Well then if you go by that theory/study then the people of color/African community should be further advanced then any other ethnic group besides the English in this country.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 16:38
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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jctexan wrote:
I don't think knowing a certain number of black people on a deep level allows you to know what "black people" are like as a race/group. That's racism by definition (racial stereotyping that directly leads to racism). All people are unique. You can't apply a few qualities/ideals of a few black people to an entire race; it doesn't work that way.

I think Pebble makes some great points. This argument/discussion should be about poverty, not about black people. I think that's the biggest problem with what that reporter said.


Perhaps I wasn't clear. Yes, I agree with you simply knowing black people (or any other group for that matter) on a deep level does of course does not mean you know what "black people" are like as group/race. We're not a monolithic group anymore than whites are and the black experience is multi-faceted. However, I find that several of the posters on here are seemingly bereft of any context of history and oblivious to how life might operate for them (because they are white) versus others who have black skin; and just read the National Review and watch Fox News and profess to have all the answers (e.g. "blacks be like Asians," "just don't wear hoodies or saggy pants and you won't get shot, duh" "well maybe that guy provoked the cops into the chokehold and he shouldn't have been obese" "we're all the same, we're post racial damn it, we have a black man for President for Christ's sake"). And when one doesn't have any friends who aren't black (or Asian, Latino, Gay, Disabled), it can sometimes lead to nonsense like this incident with Bill O'Reilly. I have plenty of close white friends (since elementary school) and some have told me how much they've learned about race that they wouldn't otherwise have known or thought about. http://mediamatters.org/research/2007 ... o-difference-betwe/139893

Deluded in thinking we're post racial:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_an ... about_bias_prejudice.html

Why there is sometimes mistrust and disdain for cops in inner city communities; and I already shared with you my unpleasant encounters with JC cops in contrast to a white female friend of mine:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationn ... 0140722-story.html#page=1

Ignorance can be bliss or a way to inoculate oneself to realities. And what's truly sad is that once someone mentions race on here, some of you or rather the usual 5 or 6 people on here readily discount it like it's sheer nonsense make believe and in a very mean-spirited repugnant manner I might add. Perhaps give it some credence for those who actually endure it.
http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/17-things-yes-all-black-people/

Posted on: 2014/7/24 16:18
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Pebble wrote:

Do you have a key to unlock the peer-pressure riddle? Do you know how to get kids to move away from thinking about now to thinking about the future? I sure as hell don?t. I imagine some really ingenious marketers could take a stab at it and possibly make a dent, but it really hasn?t been tried.


This. This is it. I don't really know either, though I offered the solution of getting better role models for the community in the hopes it would influence the kids.

But this is identifying the problem, and I think if the country started asking this question - as opposed to being petrified to discussing the issue - people far smarter than both of us could work on a solution.

The petrification I mention is precisely why you said it hasn't really been tried.

And I do agree the other factors previously discussed play a role, but I think if kids made a serious effort to thinking about the future, collectively they will be MUCH better off in 40 years than under the status quo.

Essentially, you want to change all of American culture in such a way that we move away from consumerism. When has peer pressure ever truly been quashed? The anti-drug stuff has taken quite a while and has been forced into public education. The results have been mixed.

So, how do you turn around the idea of thinking about now instead of the future? Grown adults fell prey to this when the banks bilked them with subprime ARM loans.

I know you are insistent on role models, but that isn?t the be-all end-all of this. But I think I know why you keep going to this well. I think you?re still convinced that this is a race issue and not a poverty issue.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

Wishful_Thinking wrote:
So - has this idiot been hired by Fox News yet?


Since what he said is basically similar to what President Obama said, do you call Obama an idiot as well?

When did Obama try to claim that a cop's murder was a direct result of black kids growing up father-less?


He predicted it.

You and I know how true this is in the African-American community. We know that more than half of all black children live in single-parent households, a number that has doubled - doubled - since we were children. We know the statistics - that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and twenty times more likely to end up in prison. They are more likely to have behavioral problems, or run away from home, or become teenage parents themselves. And the foundations of our community are weaker because of it.

Nope. You?re implying causation for a very specific crime. Obama is talking about a contributing factor for a particular nihilistic behavior.

I also don?t know why you are so insistent on bringing Obama into this discussion. He?s not an sociologist and he?s prone to the same pre-conceived misconceptions that many people have.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 15:54
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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JCMan8 wrote:
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jctexan wrote:
I don't think knowing a certain number of black people on a deep level allows you to know what "black people" are like as a race/group. That's racism by definition (racial stereotyping that directly leads to racism). All people are unique. You can't apply a few qualities/ideals of a few black people to an entire race; it doesn't work that way.

I think Pebble makes some great points. This argument/discussion should be about poverty, not about black people. I think that's the biggest problem with what that reporter said.


Ok, let's talk about poverty. Do you know which racial group has the highest poverty rate in NYC? Asians.

29% live below the poverty level, compared to 26% of Hispanics, 23% of blacks and 14% of whites.

Guess this indisputable fact blows up the "progressive" narrative. And it suggests the reporter was more correct than many want to admit.

http://nypost.com/2014/07/19/why-nycs ... -will-punish-poor-asians/


That's quite an article for the Post. Good read.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 15:36
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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Pebble wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

Wishful_Thinking wrote:
So - has this idiot been hired by Fox News yet?


Since what he said is basically similar to what President Obama said, do you call Obama an idiot as well?

When did Obama try to claim that a cop's murder was a direct result of black kids growing up father-less?


He predicted it.

You and I know how true this is in the African-American community. We know that more than half of all black children live in single-parent households, a number that has doubled - doubled - since we were children. We know the statistics - that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and twenty times more likely to end up in prison. They are more likely to have behavioral problems, or run away from home, or become teenage parents themselves. And the foundations of our community are weaker because of it.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 14:41
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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Pebble wrote:

Do you have a key to unlock the peer-pressure riddle? Do you know how to get kids to move away from thinking about now to thinking about the future? I sure as hell don?t. I imagine some really ingenious marketers could take a stab at it and possibly make a dent, but it really hasn?t been tried.


This. This is it. I don't really know either, though I offered the solution of getting better role models for the community in the hopes it would influence the kids.

But this is identifying the problem, and I think if the country started asking this question - as opposed to being petrified to discussing the issue - people far smarter than both of us could work on a solution.

The petrification I mention is precisely why you said it hasn't really been tried.

And I do agree the other factors previously discussed play a role, but I think if kids made a serious effort to thinking about the future, collectively they will be MUCH better off in 40 years than under the status quo.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 14:37
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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Monroe wrote:
Quote:

Wishful_Thinking wrote:
So - has this idiot been hired by Fox News yet?


Since what he said is basically similar to what President Obama said, do you call Obama an idiot as well?

When did Obama try to claim that a cop's murder was a direct result of black kids growing up father-less?

Posted on: 2014/7/24 14:21
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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In essence, I think you want to argue that it is a ?black culture? problem when in reality it is an ?American culture? problem.


The reality is without African American culture America really has no culture. from music, food, to fashion. This is what pisses most whites off. I get that.

White Americans have not lived here for thousands of years developing a culture organically through our indigenous presence. We are relative newcomers and our culture is a fairly new creation. As that development took place, we created conditions in which ?our? country holds a significant population of people of African heritage, as well of Latino heritage and Asian heritage. Native Americans, of course, have been here all along. So our central culture is not so much a natural, organic development, but rather one significantly shaped by historical and political events of conquest and control.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree. There certainly is such a thing as "white culture." The difference is that it is a hodgepodge of various cultures, be it German, Dutch, Scottish, Italian, Spanish, etc... The culture exists and is apparent if you look for it. The difference is that it is so prevalent that it is easy to miss.

Like all societies, cultures do blend and borrow. So there is many aspects of black culture that been adopted into white culture as well as the reverse.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 14:20
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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Wishful_Thinking wrote:
So - has this idiot been hired by Fox News yet?


Since what he said is basically similar to what President Obama said, do you call Obama an idiot as well?

Posted on: 2014/7/24 14:13
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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So - has this idiot been hired by Fox News yet?

Posted on: 2014/7/24 14:05
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
http://www.thetoptens.com/most-racist-countries/

The US wins every poll.


seems legit

Posted on: 2014/7/24 13:52
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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In essence, I think you want to argue that it is a ?black culture? problem when in reality it is an ?American culture? problem.


The reality is without African American culture America really has no culture. from music, food, to fashion. This is what pisses most whites off. I get that.

White Americans have not lived here for thousands of years developing a culture organically through our indigenous presence. We are relative newcomers and our culture is a fairly new creation. As that development took place, we created conditions in which ?our? country holds a significant population of people of African heritage, as well of Latino heritage and Asian heritage. Native Americans, of course, have been here all along. So our central culture is not so much a natural, organic development, but rather one significantly shaped by historical and political events of conquest and control.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 13:29
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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JCMan8 wrote:
I believe it existed for decades past but nowadays is used as the ultimate crutch.

I think that, in some ways, it can be a crutch. It is also a crutch for those with means to talk about how hard they worked to get where they are and they just don?t understand how someone that starts with far less can?t do the same.

I also don?t think you can argue that there isn?t a segment of racism that exists. I?ve witnessed it firsthand. I?m certain you have as well. I won?t say that this is preventing someone from getting a job or getting a higher education, but it certainly creates a level of distrust. If you don?t believe in that, then I don?t think you?ve ever gone on a date with anyone in your life.

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JCMan8 wrote:
I also find it curious how we are now trying to shift the discussion from poverty to types of poverty. As if the only poverty that "counts" is that influenced by "institutional racism" and we can discount other types of poverty.

If you are not persuaded by that article, neither of us will get anywhere. Ultimately I think we both see the best course of action is to agree to disagree.

I won?t shift the discussion from types of poverty. I think that it is simply cherry picking to use one location, such as NYC, as your basis of argument.

I won?t argue that culture doesn?t come into play, but if you are talking about immigrant Chinese population they are bringing that culture with them and remaining in that culture here. It is a culture I?m very familiar with. In some ways it is similar to our own. In far more ways it is not. They never really had the sexual revolution that we had. Their teens and high schoolers aren?t having sex. Heck, people reach the age of 25 without ever having a boyfriend or girlfriend and it isn?t considered all that unusual.

In essence, I think you want to argue that it is a ?black culture? problem when in reality it is an ?American culture? problem. We can then talk about poverty again and how it really doesn?t matter who it is in poverty, the culture surrounding it isn?t positive.

Do you have a key to unlock the peer-pressure riddle? Do you know how to get kids to move away from thinking about now to thinking about the future? I sure as hell don?t. I imagine some really ingenious marketers could take a stab at it and possibly make a dent, but it really hasn?t been tried.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 13:21
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
http://www.thetoptens.com/most-racist-countries/

The US wins every poll.


USA!!!!!! Yes, this is true. I hear it all the time that all blacks are low life thugs, all whites are racist pedophiles, Indians smells, Latinos will cut you and all Asians are smart. Its always the same bullshit that comes from the same ass hats and none of it is true.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 12:11
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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jctexan wrote:
I don't think knowing a certain number of black people on a deep level allows you to know what "black people" are like as a race/group. That's racism by definition (racial stereotyping that directly leads to racism). All people are unique. You can't apply a few qualities/ideals of a few black people to an entire race; it doesn't work that way.

I think Pebble makes some great points. This argument/discussion should be about poverty, not about black people. I think that's the biggest problem with what that reporter said.


Refreshing!

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Posted on: 2014/7/24 12:08
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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Posted on: 2014/7/24 3:58
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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I believe it existed for decades past but nowadays is used as the ultimate crutch. I also find it curious how we are now trying to shift the discussion from poverty to types of poverty. As if the only poverty that "counts" is that influenced by "institutional racism" and we can discount other types of poverty.

If you are not persuaded by that article, neither of us will get anywhere. Ultimately I think we both see the best course of action is to agree to disagree.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 3:50

Edited by JCMan8 on 2014/7/24 4:07:02
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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I never said solely, nor did I imply it. You might want to read my post, again.

Culture is made up of a lot of factors, including the institutional racism you believe doesn't exist.

But again, I think you're looking to support what you believe in your heart to be true, rather than looking at the facts, and coming to a conclusion based on those facts. All of the facts. Not one plucked from a NY Post "article." But you're allowed to believe what you want to believe; and I won't try to discuss a problem/convince you of a problem you don't believe even exists.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 3:24
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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Quote:

jctexan wrote:
If you look at the original study, you'll see the majority of the Asians are immigrants, where the language barrier and the choice to live in high-cost real estate areas, rather than institutional racism, keep them in poverty. This is also a fairly recent influx of immigrants (post 60s).

But if you truly see this as having the same impact systemically on an entire racial group in the U.S. generation after generation here, then there isn't really any point in discussing it. I mean that without any sarcasm.


This article is representative of how culture is the problem, and not solely poverty, as you originally claimed. Did you even read a sentence? The poor Chinese immigrants have been taking free test prep courses for years.

There is no "institutional racism" that is preventing other groups such as blacks or latinos for signing up for free classes. But culture certainly does. A culture that discourages hard work and looks at education as "acting white," as said by President Obama himself.

Any "progressive" who reads that article and still supports the initiative is a hypocrite, plain and simple.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 3:02
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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If you look at the original study, you'll see the majority of the Asians are immigrants, where the language barrier and the choice to live in high-cost real estate areas, rather than institutional racism, keep them in poverty. This is also a fairly recent influx of immigrants (post 60s).

But if you truly see this as having the same impact systemically on an entire racial group in the U.S. generation after generation here, then there isn't really any point in discussing it. I mean that without any sarcasm.

Posted on: 2014/7/24 2:48
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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jctexan wrote:
I don't think knowing a certain number of black people on a deep level allows you to know what "black people" are like as a race/group. That's racism by definition (racial stereotyping that directly leads to racism). All people are unique. You can't apply a few qualities/ideals of a few black people to an entire race; it doesn't work that way.

I think Pebble makes some great points. This argument/discussion should be about poverty, not about black people. I think that's the biggest problem with what that reporter said.


Ok, let's talk about poverty. Do you know which racial group has the highest poverty rate in NYC? Asians.

29% live below the poverty level, compared to 26% of Hispanics, 23% of blacks and 14% of whites.

Guess this indisputable fact blows up the "progressive" narrative. And it suggests the reporter was more correct than many want to admit.

http://nypost.com/2014/07/19/why-nycs ... -will-punish-poor-asians/

Posted on: 2014/7/24 2:13
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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I don't think knowing a certain number of black people on a deep level allows you to know what "black people" are like as a race/group. That's racism by definition (racial stereotyping that directly leads to racism). All people are unique. You can't apply a few qualities/ideals of a few black people to an entire race; it doesn't work that way.

I think Pebble makes some great points. This argument/discussion should be about poverty, not about black people. I think that's the biggest problem with what that reporter said.

Posted on: 2014/7/23 22:27
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Re: News 12 New Jersey reporter defends controversial comments on 'young black men' -- but quits
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Funny how some people on here pontificate without probably knowing any black people on a deep serious level save for their one casual black friend to make them feel they aren't racist or susceptible to their own confirmation bias.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/polit ... d_on_other_factors.1.html

Posted on: 2014/7/23 15:01
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