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Re: Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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@JCMan8 - it's a problem decades in the making, and I don't think there's a quick-fix solution. It's about recognizing the problem and providing channels to deal with it. Those channels could include better training for first responders, better communication between police and medical institutes, and better community care and family support.

Take the Harsimus Cove guy. If 911 responders had some background on his problems, they could dispatch a trained CIT (Critical Intervention Team) to a problem. The CIT would be trained to contain and deescalate the problem - and not necessarily open a dialogue - you can't reason with someone mentally ill, the same as you can't reason with a cornered animal. But you can contain and subdue, if trained and prepared, without resorting to deadly force.

Having the right follow-up would be essential to any solution. Incarceration in jail or mental hospital for most probably isn't the right answer, but neither is the current practice of acute care at an emergency ward like JCMC, with little-to-no follow-up after release.

Perhaps a combination of dedicated emergency "Crisis Reponse centers", community healthcare visits, along with the improved med delivery systems like the new depot preparations that can be administered monthly, would help greatly.

At any rate, we should be looking to neighboring counties like Essex and Union and see if there's anything Hudson can learn from their CIT programs.

http://cit.memphis.edu/CitMap/newjersy.php

Posted on: 2014/6/10 16:33
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Re: Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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dtjcview wrote:
Here's a couple of more links on the topic. I know the first was from Fox News to deflect from gun control, but it pretty much nails the problems in mental health caused by decades of de-institutionalization.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/1 ... ca-care-for-mentally-ill/

The second is a very enlightened dialogue between the NYPD and mental health professionals on challenges faced by first responders, and how better communication and training would help.

http://www.citylimits.org/news/articl ... 25/debating-how-to-police


DTJCView, your links underscore the importance of reopening asylums and putting severely mentally ill people there. The Fox article does an excellent job in outlining how our current mental health system is a failure. But it offered no solutions.

The second link was just a roundtable of naive people who haven't been in the real world. Have you ever met any cops? They don't give two shits about crazy nutjobs such as the guy wandering around JC. To even think they could open some kind of dialogue with crazies means you're living in a world where the sky is green. Will never happen.

So rather than wait until they start hurting people, I think folks should consider realistic solutions.

Posted on: 2014/6/10 14:59
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Re: Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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Here's a couple of more links on the topic. I know the first was from Fox News to deflect from gun control, but it pretty much nails the problems in mental health caused by decades of de-institutionalization.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/1 ... ca-care-for-mentally-ill/

The second is a very enlightened dialogue between the NYPD and mental health professionals on challenges faced by first responders, and how better communication and training would help.

http://www.citylimits.org/news/articl ... 25/debating-how-to-police

Posted on: 2014/6/10 10:19
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Re: Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
...

You are allowed to call the police if you feel threaten or feel this guy has a mental health issue and might harm himself - The NYPD have a unit that specializes in that situation, as I imagine JCPD do. You most likely will be doing this guy a favor!


If I had a mentally ill family member, I'd consider calling the JCPD more likely a death sentence than a favor.

When a disturbed and confused individual is confronted by the police, it frequently ends badly. The JCPD and other NJ police forces have no other training and tools except the use of swat-style tactics and deadly force to contain and subdue. Put yourself in the position of the mentally ill person - you are already confused, can't think straight - and are confronted by a bunch of officers pointing guns and flashlights in your direction, breaking down your door, barking commands at you - in that situation you are likely to try to defend yourself and get shot. I don't blame the individual police officers - that's how they have been trained. But the end result is a publicly-sanctioned execution of the mentally ill.

Police would probably use a tranquilizer dart to take down a wild animal roaming the streets, but will use lead on a less-dangerous human in their own home.

http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page ... tun_guns_jersey_city.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/voices/index ... nd_defending_themsel.html

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ead_by_jersey_city_p.html

Posted on: 2014/6/10 9:06

Edited by dtjcview on 2014/6/10 9:25:43
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Re: Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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He has been around now for a few years. I've passed him countless times downtown. I'm surprised that the city would allow this. It is quite frightening the first time you ' meet ' him! He is terribly disturbing and I often wonder how all of the JC downtown Moms explain him to their kids! And, yes, when you say ' he is deteriorating ' I wonder what that means. Again, the first time I saw and heard him I was totally shocked.

Posted on: 2014/6/10 4:30
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Re: Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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CdeCoincy wrote:
It seems to me that the guy who I often see ranting and raving is deteriorating. Today, he was cursing up a storm, both sexual and ethnic slurs. I have heard him rant about Filipinos and the other day he delivered a tirade on Blacks to a group of guys working on the outside of a house. He also, as always, carries a big stick.

At what point does he become a danger to himself - not being self-destructive, but being at high risk of getting beat up?

At what point can a parent file a complaint concerning his inappropriate language in front of their kids?



You are allowed to call the police if you feel threaten or feel this guy has a mental health issue and might harm himself - The NYPD have a unit that specializes in that situation, as I imagine JCPD do. You most likely will be doing this guy a favor!

Posted on: 2014/6/9 23:38
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Re: Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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SteveWilson29 wrote:
That guy really gets around. I see him downtown as often as I see him wandering around JFK near the state highway.

If you want to contact him directly, I wouldn't do it in person, but you can reach him here under the username Heights.
hahahahahahahaha

Posted on: 2014/6/9 19:38
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Re: Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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Does the county employ medical workers that can provide community care? The chronically mentally ill generally stop taking their meds as a byproduct and symptom of their illness - paranoia, objection to restraint, simple forgetfulness, etc.

A regular medical visitor could administer their meds 'depot'-style every month, and break the cycle of illness-institutionalize-recovery-release-relapse.

Or perhaps this kind of care in the community would threaten two of the county's biggest revenue streams - mental hospitals and prisons?

Posted on: 2014/6/9 19:33
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Re: Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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Am i the only one who LOL'd at this?

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SteveWilson29 wrote:

If you want to contact him directly, I wouldn't do it in person, but you can reach him here under the username Heights.

Posted on: 2014/6/9 18:35
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Re: Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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I agree JCMAN, and I believe that with your type of thinking you should be the first to be 'put away'.

Posted on: 2014/6/9 18:31
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Re: Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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These are the people who go on mass shooting sprees. Or shove someone onto subway tracks in the path of an oncoming train. Everyone sees it coming but no one can do anything because he hasn't yet done anything illegal.

They need to bring insane asylums back and put people like this in there. They were shut down before for terrible abuses so install some oversight to prevent abuse. But mentally ill people like him should be locked up. Not left on the street where they are a catastrophe waiting to happen.

Posted on: 2014/6/9 18:00
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Re: Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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That guy really gets around. I see him downtown as often as I see him wandering around JFK near the state highway.

If you want to contact him directly, I wouldn't do it in person, but you can reach him here under the username Heights.

Posted on: 2014/6/9 17:29
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Re: Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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Given you know this individual's history somewhat in that you've observed him "deteriorating" - this is likely a red flag that he's off his meds, needs new meds, or requires some other sort of care perhaps for substance abuse.

You may get some direction from the following mental health resources in Jersey City:

Jersey City
(201) 915-2210: mobile screening; Jersey City Medical Center.
(201) 433-6161 crisis hotline, in-person screening; Jersey City Medical Center.
(201) 795-8375 (listen to menu for crisis department); Christ Hospital; phone and in-person crisis services.

This may be the more humane thing to do in the short term, rather than calling the police. If they're able to intervene as a medical crisis, then maybe he can get the care he needs. If not, call your local precinct and ask for direction from there after explaining the situation.

You're a kind person to take action on his behalf, as he's obviously not able to do so for himself.

Posted on: 2014/6/9 16:34
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Harsimus Cove Mentally Disturbed Man
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It seems to me that the guy who I often see ranting and raving is deteriorating. Today, he was cursing up a storm, both sexual and ethnic slurs. I have heard him rant about Filipinos and the other day he delivered a tirade on Blacks to a group of guys working on the outside of a house. He also, as always, carries a big stick.

At what point does he become a danger to himself - not being self-destructive, but being at high risk of getting beat up?

At what point can a parent file a complaint concerning his inappropriate language in front of their kids?


Posted on: 2014/6/9 16:17
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