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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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brewster wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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jcdd wrote:
Monroe: in "tony" Millburn, the are also paying 19K in taxes for a house (often large) with a lawn and parking. They also get much nore in the way of services for their taxes. They are not paying 10K for an 800 square foot apartment with no parking.

So relatively speaking, Jc residents are paying more.


They may well be, but that's immaterial (and likely inflated by the traditional JC cost of corruption)-the fact remains that you are being subsidized by suburban households to the tune of about a half a billion dollars a year, every year.

Great deal for JC, lousy deal for the suburban taxpayers. Just be happy you're being subsidized while others help shoulder your burden, adding to their own.


The Abbott decision was recognition that NJ, with a ridiculous number of municipalities, has basically ghettoized it's poor into a handful urban areas, and those areas can not realistically generate the funds to provide education that would not be dramatically substandard to the rest of the state. As difficult as it is to educate urban kids, doing it spending half or less of what the suburbs do is even harder. I know the idea of "the common good" is a tough one for today's conservative, but it's an old idea.


You're joking, right? JC spends more per student than the state average, and some Abbott districts spend 50% more per student than the state average. Half of what the suburban districts spend? Here's a link if you want to learn the facts, you can check for yourself.

http://www.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/educat ... dist_code2390&maxhits=650

And although this has been going on for over two generations of urban kids it's been a money pit of failed policy-look at the graduation rates of, say, Newark and JC.






Posted on: 2014/5/10 12:16
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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Posted on: 2014/5/10 12:00
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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Monroe wrote:
Hard work will always prevail.



LOL WHUT

Posted on: 2014/5/10 11:29
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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Monroe wrote:
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jcdd wrote:
Monroe: in "tony" Millburn, the are also paying 19K in taxes for a house (often large) with a lawn and parking. They also get much nore in the way of services for their taxes. They are not paying 10K for an 800 square foot apartment with no parking.

So relatively speaking, Jc residents are paying more.


They may well be, but that's immaterial (and likely inflated by the traditional JC cost of corruption)-the fact remains that you are being subsidized by suburban households to the tune of about a half a billion dollars a year, every year.

Great deal for JC, lousy deal for the suburban taxpayers. Just be happy you're being subsidized while others help shoulder your burden, adding to their own.


The Abbott decision was recognition that NJ, with a ridiculous number of municipalities, has basically ghettoized it's poor into a handful urban areas, and those areas can not realistically generate the funds to provide education that would not be dramatically substandard to the rest of the state. As difficult as it is to educate urban kids, doing it spending half or less of what the suburbs do is even harder. I know the idea of "the common good" is a tough one for today's conservative, but it's an old idea.

Posted on: 2014/5/10 3:55
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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Yvonne wrote:
JC is 16, 793 per square mile per person or roughly 10411 per kilometer, which is the density of many third world cities.


Uh... no! You are entitled to your own crazy opinions, but not your own facts. Indeed, the population density of JC is around 16,500 ppl per square mile, but you don't get to (mis) translate that into 10,411 per square kilometer. Instead, the proper value is 6,445 ppl per square kilometer. While fairly dense, that's nowhere near the density of third world cities around the world. In fact, Jersey City wouldn't even qualify as one of the Top 50 densest cities in the world, and it likely wouldn't break the Top 100.



Posted on: 2014/5/9 23:25
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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After living in Hong Kong or Tokyo, one realizes how 3rd World our transport system is.

Posted on: 2014/5/9 22:10
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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JC is 16, 793 per square mile per person or roughly 10411 per kilometer, which is the density of many third world cities. But realistically, downtown is probably double that number. Once Journal Square and other parts of JC are built up, we will surpass many third world cities but unfortunately our streets will not get wider.

Posted on: 2014/5/9 22:05
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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jcdd wrote:
Monroe: Why do you post on JClist if you live in the suburbs? If you live here part time, why do you do that?


My g/f lives here, so I spend quite a bit of time in JC and have come to like it.

And Millburn/Short Hills has plenty of high density housing, located near the rail stations and alongside the major streets that have bus access. Lots of apartments for those who would want to live there, so there is no 'exclusionary' issue with people who may work in the area but cannot afford a house. The only real zoning issues in town now have been between Stop and Shop, who want to drop a 24 hour supermarket on the old Saks building in Springfield, which wants tractor trailer access through Millburn, and the Hasidic rabbi who wants to build a synagogue on an undersized plot of land.


Posted on: 2014/5/9 15:51
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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Monroe: Why do you post on JClist if you live in the suburbs? If you live here part time, why do you do that?

Posted on: 2014/5/9 15:41
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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Monroe wrote:

As for 'affordable housing' there is no civil or God given right to live wherever you choose-you live where you can afford to live.



Of course there is a god given right to create zoning laws that specifically exclude housing that would be affordable even if someone wants to build it.

Once you start having zoning & maximum occupancy laws you start controlling supply and demand. Supply is artificially short in Milburn, which is fine. I think it's OK that neighborhoods control the type of development, but when they do they are externalizing the certain costs. Part of that is pushing out all the people who can't afford to live there (but lots still need to work there, maids, nannies, gas station attendants, landscapers, painters etc.)

Milburn isn't a bubble.

Posted on: 2014/5/9 15:30
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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Nobody is shouldering my burden. The subsidy is because Cities require more funds in the way of cost of space, and taking care of the poor and immigrants, together with the unique issues that come with those responsibilities. Most immigrants can't afford to live in the fancy suburbs of NJ. Nice deal for the 'burbs, because it keeps the poor out of their neighborhoods- the way they like it. God forbid someone wants to build affordable housing in their neighborhood.

In any event, this is what we do in a civilized, first world country - we take care of our poor and our immigrants. Monroe, just be thankful that you live in a civilized, first world country. If you don't like it, find a country where they don't do that - perhaps Russia or India - where corruption among the elite runs amok and the poor die in the streets.


I'm one of those suburban people who subsidize your cheap taxes. While I'm a charitable person, I do mind when I hear people complain about the benefit they receive from me, because of an activist state court. Enjoy that I can afford to subsidize your lifestyle, a little appreciation would be in order.

As for 'affordable housing' there is no civil or God given right to live wherever you choose-you live where you can afford to live. My immigrant grandparents did not arrive and land in Short Hills. Through hard work over four generations my family made it from Newark, to Irvington, to Millburn, then to Short Hills, while being discriminated against for not speaking the language and their ethnicity.

When I tell my children I recall my grandfather signing things with an 'X' they couldn't comprehend he didn't know how to read and write. Hard work will always prevail.


Posted on: 2014/5/9 15:16
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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jcdd wrote:
So relatively speaking, Jc residents are paying more.


So, given the facts, if you look at it logically and reasonably, you shouldn't be begrudging Millburn their "relatively lower" taxes (as measured per square footage, and amenities) but instead you should be taking your local government to task over its fiscal mismanagement.

Whether people like it or not, or want to admit it, or not, the fact remains that JC taxes are lower than they should be if the city was obligated to collect enough money from residents to cover their responsibilities. And, that's what you should be upset about. As they say, get involved and demand answers. Or, keep paying incredibly high taxes for little to no services.

Posted on: 2014/5/9 15:06
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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Nobody is shouldering my burden. The subsidy is because Cities require more funds in the way of cost of space, and taking care of the poor and immigrants, together with the unique issues that come with those responsibilities. Most immigrants can't afford to live in the fancy suburbs of NJ. Nice deal for the 'burbs, because it keeps the poor out of their neighborhoods- the way they like it. God forbid someone wants to build affordable housing in their neighborhood.

In any event, this is what we do in a civilized, first world country - we take care of our poor and our immigrants. Monroe, just be thankful that you live in a civilized, first world country. If you don't like it, find a country where they don't do that - perhaps Russia or India - where corruption among the elite runs amok and the poor die in the streets.

Posted on: 2014/5/9 15:04
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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jcdd wrote:
Monroe: in "tony" Millburn, the are also paying 19K in taxes for a house (often large) with a lawn and parking. They also get much nore in the way of services for their taxes. They are not paying 10K for an 800 square foot apartment with no parking.

So relatively speaking, Jc residents are paying more.


They may well be, but that's immaterial (and likely inflated by the traditional JC cost of corruption)-the fact remains that you are being subsidized by suburban households to the tune of about a half a billion dollars a year, every year.

Great deal for JC, lousy deal for the suburban taxpayers. Just be happy you're being subsidized while others help shoulder your burden, adding to their own.








Posted on: 2014/5/9 14:42
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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Monroe: in "tony" Millburn, the are also paying 19K in taxes for a house (often large) with a lawn and parking. They also get much nore in the way of services for their taxes. They are not paying 10K for an 800 square foot apartment with no parking.

So relatively speaking, Jc residents are paying more.

Posted on: 2014/5/9 14:17
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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jcguy05 wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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blanquiita wrote:
I'd add an eighth factor: property taxes.


JC property taxes are very inexpensive, due to the Abbott decision that pays for 75% of the cost of educating JC children-about $500,000,000/year. That's a half a billion dollars each and every year.

Consider yourself lucky, suburban taxpayer are covering a lot of JC costs.



Is this a joke? I pay $6500 a year in property tax for a 800sqf 1br apt and that's on the cheap side, 2br is 10k, other highrises are even higher meanwhile the giant mansions in the suburbs also have 10k taxes a year. In the same space where you have two of those houses in the suburbs paying a total of 20-30k in tax, we have 250+ units each paying 6-12k in tax.

Not sure what planet you are from if you think JC taxes are lower than suburbs.


Not a joke AT ALL. What Monroe was tying to say is that if JC residents had to pay the taxes necessary to cover the city expenses and responsibilities, the local taxes would be much higher. So, as high as taxes are here right now, they would be much higher if other municipalities weren't pitching in to pay for the school system in JC. That's a fact. Also, newcomers are, on average, paying a higher share/burden because a reval hasn't been carried out in 30 years, despite the law calling for one every 10 years. So, old timers are paying artificially low taxes on properties valued at a fraction of what they are worth now.

Posted on: 2014/5/9 13:17
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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user1111 wrote:
Alex Napoliello/NJ.com

Jersey City is the fifth most stressed out city in the county while Newark is ranked No. 8, according to a report from real estate blog Movoto.

Both cities are less stressed than nearby New York City (2) but have a higher stress level than Philadelphia (9) and Los Angeles (10).

The real estate blog determined its rankings by looking at seven factors: commute time, unemployment, cost of living, crime per 100,000 residents, hours worked, population density and percentage of income spent on rent.


All you have to do is read some of the stupid posts on JClist to know its true

Posted on: 2014/5/9 12:59
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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jcguy05 wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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blanquiita wrote:
I'd add an eighth factor: property taxes.


JC property taxes are very inexpensive, due to the Abbott decision that pays for 75% of the cost of educating JC children-about $500,000,000/year. That's a half a billion dollars each and every year.

Consider yourself lucky, suburban taxpayer are covering a lot of JC costs.



Is this a joke? I pay $6500 a year in property tax for a 800sqf 1br apt and that's on the cheap side, 2br is 10k, other highrises are even higher meanwhile the giant mansions in the suburbs also have 10k taxes a year. In the same space where you have two of those houses in the suburbs paying a total of 20-30k in tax, we have 250+ units each paying 6-12k in tax.

Not sure what planet you are from if you think JC taxes are lower than suburbs.


You're paying almost exactly the average in JC. The Bayonne average is over 40% higher.

The difference? JC gets 75% of its school funding from other NJ taxpayers. Bayonne gets 46% from other NJ taxpayers.

So, in tony Mountain Lakes in Morris County, their local taxes average close to 19K. The state gives them 11% of the costs for their local schools. Millburn? Taxes over 20K, 11% school support as well.

So, yes, JC taxes are artificially low because their fair share of school costs are shared with suburban taxpayers.

You're getting a great deal, be happy for yourself.

Posted on: 2014/5/9 11:38
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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Monroe wrote:
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blanquiita wrote:
I'd add an eighth factor: property taxes.


JC property taxes are very inexpensive, due to the Abbott decision that pays for 75% of the cost of educating JC children-about $500,000,000/year. That's a half a billion dollars each and every year.

Consider yourself lucky, suburban taxpayer are covering a lot of JC costs.



Is this a joke? I pay $6500 a year in property tax for a 800sqf 1br apt and that's on the cheap side, 2br is 10k, other highrises are even higher meanwhile the giant mansions in the suburbs also have 10k taxes a year. In the same space where you have two of those houses in the suburbs paying a total of 20-30k in tax, we have 250+ units each paying 6-12k in tax.

Not sure what planet you are from if you think JC taxes are lower than suburbs.

Posted on: 2014/5/9 7:40
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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blanquiita wrote:
I'd add an eighth factor: property taxes.


JC property taxes are very inexpensive, due to the Abbott decision that pays for 75% of the cost of educating JC children-about $500,000,000/year. That's a half a billion dollars each and every year.

Consider yourself lucky, suburban taxpayer are covering a lot of JC costs.


Posted on: 2014/5/8 22:13
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Re: JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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I'd add an eighth factor: property taxes.

Posted on: 2014/5/8 21:56
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JC make top 10 'most stressed out' cities in America list
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Alex Napoliello/NJ.com

Jersey City is the fifth most stressed out city in the county while Newark is ranked No. 8, according to a report from real estate blog Movoto.

Both cities are less stressed than nearby New York City (2) but have a higher stress level than Philadelphia (9) and Los Angeles (10).

The real estate blog determined its rankings by looking at seven factors: commute time, unemployment, cost of living, crime per 100,000 residents, hours worked, population density and percentage of income spent on rent.

Posted on: 2014/5/8 21:49
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