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Re: Bike Share System
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Hey Monroe, if you're really a cycling enthusiast, I find it hard to understand how you can be so cynical about bike share programs.

If they are a success, it will mean safer streets for all cyclists - the awareness of cyclists among drivers and cycling infrastructure will increase over time.

If they fail - what skin is it off your back?

I own more bikes than I care to admit, and I still use Citibike several times a week. Depending on how the JC program is set up, I could see myself using it on a regular basis, as well.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:

And we think Hudson County can make this work?? All it will do is give some politico's 'green' props for a program no-one but a few want. It's a resume builder for a few, that's all.


Posted on: 2014/3/28 5:15
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Re: Bike Share System
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The problem with these bike share programs is similar to the current health insurance problems. Everyone says on the survey that they love the idea of these things and are willing to pay for it. But when it comes time to put their money where their mouth is, well, let's just say they have a change of heart. At least until they figure out a way to have somebody else pay for it.

Posted on: 2014/3/27 21:55
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Re: Bike Share System
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Monroe wrote:
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JCishome wrote:
I'm not sure that makes sense. The number of rides in NY exceeded anyone's hopes, but one of the problems is that the utilization is much more heavily weighted toward annual members than they expected - they're not getting enough revenue from one-time users. There's high demand, just a different demand than they thought and now they need to adjust accordingly.


They did a lousy job figuring out usage needs and trends, and haven't kept up their promises as far as upkeep and repair-even though they had a huge Citibank startup fee and over 100,000 prepaid subscribers @ $95/year. The tourist fees are stupid in concept, silly in practice, AND more expensive than private bike rentals.

And we think Hudson County can make this work?? All it will do is give some politico's 'green' props for a program no-one but a few want. It's a resume builder for a few, that's all.



You are 1000% right. This is intended to be placed on Fulop's governor campaign mailers as "started New Jersey's largest bike share program, cutting greenhouses gases by ___%"

Posted on: 2014/3/27 16:53
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Re: Bike Share System
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Yeah, the NY system was probably too ambitious because of its huge scale. Smaller bike-share programs work very nicely in lots of places (in Minneapolis, it shuts down in winter and it's still a success!). Those are probably better comparisons than NYC. I agree with you, why would a tourist rent one of those clunky bikes when they can get a real one for the same price? But that's obviously not an issue in Hudson County.

Posted on: 2014/3/27 16:15
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Re: Bike Share System
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JCishome wrote:
I'm not sure that makes sense. The number of rides in NY exceeded anyone's hopes, but one of the problems is that the utilization is much more heavily weighted toward annual members than they expected - they're not getting enough revenue from one-time users. There's high demand, just a different demand than they thought and now they need to adjust accordingly.


They did a lousy job figuring out usage needs and trends, and haven't kept up their promises as far as upkeep and repair-even though they had a huge Citibank startup fee and over 100,000 prepaid subscribers @ $95/year. The tourist fees are stupid in concept, silly in practice, AND more expensive than private bike rentals.

And we think Hudson County can make this work?? All it will do is give some politico's 'green' props for a program no-one but a few want. It's a resume builder for a few, that's all.


Posted on: 2014/3/27 15:44
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Re: Bike Share System
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I'm not sure that makes sense. The number of rides in NY exceeded anyone's hopes, but one of the problems is that the utilization is much more heavily weighted toward annual members than they expected - they're not getting enough revenue from one-time users. There's high demand, just a different demand than they thought and now they need to adjust accordingly.

Posted on: 2014/3/27 13:33
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Re: Bike Share System
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heights wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
Apparently the company that supplied the bikes and technology for Citibike filed for bankruptcy. And De Blasio said there's no room in the City's budget to add funding to this program.

Ultimately these bike share programs may go down in the history books as a failed experiment.

I think Nyc is looking for a way to scrap the system to satisfy the pedestrian and car driving masses, and not look as though it is a slap in the face to the cycling culture.


Slap in the face? They had tens of millions of dollars of support, and over 100,000 people paid the annual fee to subscribe, they took over prime real estate to locate the kiosks, and it's still going to fail. It's a 'feel good, green, kumbaya' program that's failing even with a ton of support. Face it, the majority of biking enthusiasts, like myself, have our own bikes. For tourists, there exist retail bike rental places already. It was an answer to a question no-one asked.

Posted on: 2014/3/27 11:22
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Re: Bike Share System
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JCMan8 wrote:
Apparently the company that supplied the bikes and technology for Citibike filed for bankruptcy. And De Blasio said there's no room in the City's budget to add funding to this program.

Ultimately these bike share programs may go down in the history books as a failed experiment.

I think Nyc is looking for a way to scrap the system to satisfy the pedestrian and car driving masses, and not look as though it is a slap in the face to the cycling culture.

Posted on: 2014/3/27 10:55
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Re: Bike Share System
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Apparently the company that supplied the bikes and technology for Citibike filed for bankruptcy. And De Blasio said there's no room in the City's budget to add funding to this program.

Ultimately these bike share programs may go down in the history books as a failed experiment.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/27/ ... bound.html?_r=0&referrer=

Posted on: 2014/3/26 19:53
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Re: Bike Share System
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Bogart wrote:
Not necessarily. The process can include bringing bikes back to PATH stations in the evening.

If nothing is done, you are going to have to go to a PATH station to find a bike during the day, which limits the usefulness of the program for much of the city.


Seriously? You want someone to ferry the bikes from the PATH stations after the AM rush and then ferry those same bikes back before the PM rush hour? Do you know how time consuming, physically demanding, and labor intensive (expensive) that plan would be?

Bike share systems are intended to get cars off the street and are located in places that people commute to and from. Why place the inventory out in no-mans land during the day for that one person that wants to use a commuting bicycle for a joyride?

Posted on: 2014/3/26 14:16
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Re: Bike Share System
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Monroe wrote:
If they can't make it there, can they make it in JC?

http://nypost.com/2014/03/21/citybike ... eeds-millions-to-survive/

There's a good discussion about this on this NYC based real-estate board http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2014/03 ... llions_to_stay_afloat.php Interestingly, people compare NYC's bike share to other cities which sound like they get substantially more public funding. I think it can make it in JC, with the financing issues - as well as some of the other issues - addressed. For instance - here in JC I suspect many users will be commuters, and since there are only a few places to commute to (Harborside Financial, PATH stations) moving the bikes will be less of a challenge.

Posted on: 2014/3/25 18:02
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Re: Bike Share System
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MikeyTBC wrote: Does anyone have any links to bike safety and specifically helmets? Stats, numbers, types of helmets etc. I'm googling and most of what I'm seeing is about kids and basic rules of the road. Thanks
Lots of stats available from CDC, NHTSA, and the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute. But if the question you're trying to answer is "Do I really need to wear a helmet?", you might still be dissatisfied. Lots of people point to the Dutch experience - way more bikes than the US and almost no one wears a helmet, yet there are far fewer head injuries/fatalities - as evidence that adults don't really need bike helmets. But I think this is pretty misleading, since the bike cultures are very different. (Here's a pretty good summary of the differences: http://www.treehugger.com/bikes/why-dutch-dont-wear-helmets.html) So, for me, the answer is - it's probably fine to go without a bike helmet in the Netherlands, but it's almost certainly crazy to go without one in the US (especially places like JC/NYC with road cultures that are still quite unfriendly to bikes). (If you need to buy one, I highly recommend the very nice folks at Grove Bicycles.)

Posted on: 2014/3/21 19:05
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Re: Bike Share System
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I also think the nyc system has problems that are unique to it such as the solar/batteries...although I love the bikes, I've never been on a system that malfunctions so frequently...sometimes I have to try 3 or 4 times before I can get a bike.

Posted on: 2014/3/21 19:01
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Re: Bike Share System
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Although Citi Bike has been popular with commuters, the system has been plagued with problems, such as software glitches, maintenance woes and battery issues at the stations.


The Hudson country program will not be using the same station-based system, so the technical problems NYC has experienced will not be relevant here. Not to say there won't be other issues.

Posted on: 2014/3/21 18:30
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Re: Bike Share System
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If they can't make it there, can they make it in JC?

http://nypost.com/2014/03/21/citybike ... eeds-millions-to-survive/

Posted on: 2014/3/21 11:55
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Re: Bike Share System
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jmiz wrote:
Quote:

Bogart wrote:
Does the program envision an effort to redistribute where the bikes are left?


If you redistribute throughout the day, those who need to ride home will not have a bike at the PATH to do so.



Not necessarily. The process can include bringing bikes back to PATH stations in the evening.

If nothing is done, you are going to have to go to a PATH station to find a bike during the day, which limits the usefulness of the program for much of the city.

Posted on: 2014/3/20 21:16
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Re: Bike Share System
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hero69 wrote:
if people want helmuts, they should pay for them.....enuff socialism already. obamacare is enuff


Let's stop building those damn socialist roads and public transport systems too while we're at it. Thanks Obama!

Posted on: 2014/3/19 17:37
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Re: Bike Share System
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if people want helmuts, they should pay for them.....enuff socialism already. obamacare is enuff

Posted on: 2014/3/19 11:05
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Re: Bike Share System
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Why can't the city and schools just put more bikes out there? How about a free bike & helmet for high school graduates? Free bikes for city employees? Encourage local employers to do the same. Might even figure a way to make it deductible under health and wellness programs. And who cares if people just sell them - most will end up in JC anyway.

Posted on: 2014/3/19 4:46
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Re: Bike Share System
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Bogart wrote:
Does the program envision an effort to redistribute where the bikes are left?


If you redistribute throughout the day, those who need to ride home will not have a bike at the PATH to do so.


Posted on: 2014/3/19 0:58
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Re: Bike Share System
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One problem I see for JC is that a huge portion of the bikes are going to be left at the PATH stations in the mornings and will not be available all day elsewhere. Then, they will all be needed back at the PATH stations in the evening.

Does the program envision an effort to redistribute where the bikes are left?

Posted on: 2014/3/18 22:04
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Re: Bike Share System
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I disagree. Sometimes it's good to put the cart before the horse. Get the bikes out there, and get more people interested in biking, and then there will be even more public pressure for the city to develop good bike lanes. One thing supports the other.

Otherwise we're just being defeatist. And that's no fun.

I can't wait for this program to begin rolling out!

Posted on: 2014/3/18 20:46
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Re: Bike Share System
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jmiz wrote:
Cart before the horse. At least that's what Jersey City is doing here.

I commute every day by bicycle. Since this time last year, I've ridden 2,200 miles -- and that's just me commuting to work in JC and NYC. I'm speaking from experience here:

Hoboken actually has dedicated bike lanes already in place. Hoboken also has new proposed lanes that get people to where they need to go (for instance, from the foot of Mountain Rd, down 1st, to the PATH).

Jersey City has none of this. There's been a hap-hazard rollout of bike sharrow on the roads so far. You'll find one road has them, and then you have to traverse several blocks to reconnect to another. The roads designated for bike lanes don't actually get cyclists anywhere, either. Jersey City has simply picked the widest streets (or streets most in the public eye - ahem Grove Street) to add the lanes.

Also, the bike sharrows in the heights are a raised decal, not actual paint. It took one snow storm for the plows to scrape the street and destroy the sharrows. Today, the bike lane indicators are either completely gone or destroyed beyond recognition. One decal in front of my place is just a sliver of the front tire -- the rest is gone.

I've taken pictures and forwarded them to Bike JC, a group that's supposed to advocate for these types of things. Their response was to "wait until spring so more lanes could be added." What about the destroyed lanes are already exist? Are we going to add more lanes with this shitty decal only to have the lanes destroyed again come Winter 2015?

If our city can't even put down bike lane lines that last more than 6 months, how does it expect to operate and maintain a physical transportation network?


That's a great point. I probably won't be using the bike share any (if at all) since I have my own bikes. However, I'm praying to god that with more cyclists on the road, the driving culture around JC will start to change. With that being said, I have no idea how the current infrastructure is going to be able to adapt quickly and successfully enough by the time this launches. It's not like you can't have a bike share system without bike lanes, but with the expected number of casual and first-time cyclists taking to the roads, there needs to be a well thought out system to guide these people to where they should and shouldn't ride their bikes.

Posted on: 2014/3/18 20:41
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Re: Bike Share System
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Cart before the horse. At least that's what Jersey City is doing here.

I commute every day by bicycle. Since this time last year, I've ridden 2,200 miles -- and that's just me commuting to work in JC and NYC. I'm speaking from experience here:

Hoboken actually has dedicated bike lanes already in place. Hoboken also has new proposed lanes that get people to where they need to go (for instance, from the foot of Mountain Rd, down 1st, to the PATH).

Jersey City has none of this. There's been a hap-hazard rollout of bike sharrow on the roads so far. You'll find one road has them, and then you have to traverse several blocks to reconnect to another. The roads designated for bike lanes don't actually get cyclists anywhere, either. Jersey City has simply picked the widest streets (or streets most in the public eye - ahem Grove Street) to add the lanes.

Also, the bike sharrows in the heights are a raised decal, not actual paint. It took one snow storm for the plows to scrape the street and destroy the sharrows. Today, the bike lane indicators are either completely gone or destroyed beyond recognition. One decal in front of my place is just a sliver of the front tire -- the rest is gone.

I've taken pictures and forwarded them to Bike JC, a group that's supposed to advocate for these types of things. Their response was to "wait until spring so more lanes could be added." What about the destroyed lanes are already exist? Are we going to add more lanes with this shitty decal only to have the lanes destroyed again come Winter 2015?

If our city can't even put down bike lane lines that last more than 6 months, how does it expect to operate and maintain a physical transportation network?

Posted on: 2014/3/18 20:26
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Re: Bike Share System
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JC_rider wrote:
It would be great if some of these bikes came with a child back seat so that you can take the family for a ride all the way to weehawken. Just bring your helmets.
from my experience riding these bikes in Boston and Montreal, they are built like indestructible bricks, which means they are slow and heavy. Not really meant for long-distance biking.

Posted on: 2014/3/18 20:07
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Re: Bike Share System
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heights wrote:
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JC_rider wrote:
It would be great if some of these bikes came with a child back seat so that you can take the family for a ride all the way to weehawken. Just bring your helmets.

Lets take baby steps before we leap to the liability of child seats on wheels. We first have to see if the adults can handle the 2-wheel vehicle themselves.


Good point. Brings back decade old personal memories from NYC 5 boro tour where some adults dusting off 2 wheelers just for this event and being all over the place.


I did the tour last year and probably won't do it again, apparently not much has changed in the last decade except for the ever increasing amount of people.

Posted on: 2014/3/18 20:01
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Re: Bike Share System
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MikeyTBC wrote:
Does anyone have any links to bike safety and specifically helmets? Stats, numbers, types of helmets etc.
I'm googling and most of what I'm seeing is about kids and basic rules of the road.
Thanks


More info here

http://www.usacycling.org/usa-cycling ... s-new-helmet-standard.htm


(1) American National Standards Institute (ANSI) Standard Z90.4;
(2) Snell Memorial Foundation Standard "B" or "N" series;
(3) American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) standard F-1447;
(4) Canadian Standards Association (CSA) standard CAN/CSA-D113.2-M;
(5) U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) standard for bicycle helmets;
(6) European Committee for Standardization (CEN) standard for bicycle helmets

Posted on: 2014/3/18 19:15
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Re: Bike Share System
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Does anyone have any links to bike safety and specifically helmets? Stats, numbers, types of helmets etc.
I'm googling and most of what I'm seeing is about kids and basic rules of the road.
Thanks

Posted on: 2014/3/18 18:19
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Re: Bike Share System
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JC_rider wrote:
It would be great if some of these bikes came with a child back seat so that you can take the family for a ride all the way to weehawken. Just bring your helmets.

Lets take baby steps before we leap to the liability of child seats on wheels. We first have to see if the adults can handle the 2-wheel vehicle themselves.


Good point. Brings back decade old personal memories from NYC 5 boro tour where some adults dusting off 2 wheelers just for this event and being all over the place.

Posted on: 2014/3/18 18:10
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Re: Bike Share System
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Posted on: 2014/3/17 6:11
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