Howpat wrote:
Greenville's population was mixed, but mostly white till the late
1960's- early 1970's.

brewster wrote:
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user1111 wrote:
FG has been a black neighborhood since the 19th century and Harlem was black from day 1. You must be confusing these areas with Greenville, Jersey City which was mostly white till the mid 1960's.

I didn't know "day 1" was at the turn of the 20th century. But before that Harlem was white and at the beginning, as opposed to "Day 1", white Dutch.

sp2xs wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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user1111 wrote:
FG has been a black neighborhood since the 19th century and Harlem was black from day 1. You must be confusing these areas with Greenville, Jersey City which was mostly white till the mid 1960's.

I didn't know "day 1" was at the turn of the 20th century. But before that Harlem was white and at the beginning, as opposed to "Day 1", white Dutch.

And that's why the gentrification "debate" will likely see no end. Neighborhoods change, and always have been changing. It's not something that is good, or bad... it just is.

sp2xs wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
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user1111 wrote:
FG has been a black neighborhood since the 19th century and Harlem was black from day 1. You must be confusing these areas with Greenville, Jersey City which was mostly white till the mid 1960's.

I didn't know "day 1" was at the turn of the 20th century. But before that Harlem was white and at the beginning, as opposed to "Day 1", white Dutch.

And that's why the gentrification "debate" will likely see no end. Neighborhoods change, and always have been changing. It's not something that is good, or bad... it just is.

brewster wrote:
Quote:

user1111 wrote:
FG has been a black neighborhood since the 19th century and Harlem was black from day 1. You must be confusing these areas with Greenville, Jersey City which was mostly white till the mid 1960's.

I didn't know "day 1" was at the turn of the 20th century. But before that Harlem was white and at the beginning, as opposed to "Day 1", white Dutch.

brewster wrote:
Quote:

user1111 wrote:
FG has been a black neighborhood since the 19th century and Harlem was black from day 1. You must be confusing these areas with Greenville, Jersey City which was mostly white till the mid 1960's.

I didn't know "day 1" was at the turn of the 20th century. But before that Harlem was white and at the beginning, as opposed to "Day 1", white Dutch.

user1111 wrote:
FG has been a black neighborhood since the 19th century and Harlem was black from day 1. You must be confusing these areas with Greenville, Jersey City which was mostly white till the mid 1960's.

hero69 wrote:
well, i know from my observations that you have to look at inner city nabs with a microscope. if you are talking about poorer latino areas, you are much more likely to find fresh fruits and vegetables (and cheaper) than if you are talking about poorer black areas as well as poorer white areas.

Adonis wrote:
That's funny - Spike Lee complaining about the effects of white people moving into black neighborhoods. What, does he think the history of these neighborhoods began in the early 60's. These neighborhoods were white long before the black people moved in. And he wants to complain that they are changing again??!! That's hilarious.

user1111 wrote:
Motherf**kin? Christopher Columbus Syndrome?: Spike Lee Goes On Epic Rant Against Gentrification - See more at: http://madamenoire.com/404886/spike-l ... ion/#sthash.rBGiysCD.dpuf

JCMan8 wrote:
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Frank_M wrote:
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Conformist wrote:
The "food desert" phenomenon was basically a no-evidence feel-good theory in certain circles that has since been proven to be completely false.

The headline of the linked article is ?Studies Question the Pairing of Food Deserts and Obesity.? They aren?t proof of anything, much less of a ?complete falsehood.? Most importantly, the nutritional reality of poor neighborhoods involves much more than the availability of produce in grocery stores. Ever eat lunch in the Bronx? What did you settle on?McDonald?s or high calorie, low nutrition, Latin-American inspired cuisine? (The latter is delicious, but I need to take a nap afterwards.)

How about our own Pathmark? It has obviously long catered to a fairly low-income demographic, and while it has improved, the frequently very low quality of their produce isn?t something I experience in more affluent neighborhoods.

People may not be aware but many times the residents of poorer areas reject solutions to end their "food deserts" on the grounds it will make their area too much nicer, gentrify it, and price them out of the neighborhood.

Here is one very recent example.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/02/0 ... o-many-white-people-99333

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

Conformist wrote:
The "food desert" phenomenon was basically a no-evidence feel-good theory in certain circles that has since been proven to be completely false.

The headline of the linked article is ?Studies Question the Pairing of Food Deserts and Obesity.? They aren?t proof of anything, much less of a ?complete falsehood.? Most importantly, the nutritional reality of poor neighborhoods involves much more than the availability of produce in grocery stores. Ever eat lunch in the Bronx? What did you settle on?McDonald?s or high calorie, low nutrition, Latin-American inspired cuisine? (The latter is delicious, but I need to take a nap afterwards.)

How about our own Pathmark? It has obviously long catered to a fairly low-income demographic, and while it has improved, the frequently very low quality of their produce isn?t something I experience in more affluent neighborhoods.

CdeCoincy wrote:
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user1111 wrote:
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Conformist wrote:
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CdeCoincy wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/nyr ... aste.html?ref=todayspaper

I have no experience with food co-ops, so I found this article informative. I suspect that dtjc is not considered a food desert, and don't like the idea of undermining the private businesses like Key Food, P&K, the 8 Erie street venture, etc.
One of my questions is do you think that a nabe needs a critical mass of 'gentry' to get soething like this off the ground?

Form small groups and discuss among yourselves.

The "food desert" phenomenon was basically a no-evidence feel-good theory in certain circles that has since been proven to be completely false. There's no evidence whatsoever that poorer neighborhoods in cities have less access to fresh produce--in fact, the evidence generally points the other way, that poorer urban neighborhoods tend to have *more* neighborhood healthy food options compared to wealthier areas in the suburbs. They may not be taken advantage of, for a wide variety of reasons, but they are there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/hea ... hallenged-in-studies.html

This is bullshit, I have lived in every ward of this city and ward A has no options at all if you do not have a car. Take a day trip and see for yourself.

USER, can't speak about Ward A, but several of the secretarial and admin people at work who lived in Project Brooklyn (not gentry Brooklyn) used to buy fruits and vegs from the carts in lower Manhattan and lug it home. Stuff wasn't available to people who shopped on foot. They also couldn't use services like Fresh Direct because they didn't deliver to their nabe or they feared having packages left at their door. After 9/11 things got worse because we were no longer allowed to have personal packages delivered to the office. Goodbye household products from Amazon.

Conformist wrote:
The "food desert" phenomenon was basically a no-evidence feel-good theory in certain circles that has since been proven to be completely false.

user1111 wrote:
Quote:

Conformist wrote:
Quote:

CdeCoincy wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/nyr ... aste.html?ref=todayspaper

I have no experience with food co-ops, so I found this article informative. I suspect that dtjc is not considered a food desert, and don't like the idea of undermining the private businesses like Key Food, P&K, the 8 Erie street venture, etc.
One of my questions is do you think that a nabe needs a critical mass of 'gentry' to get soething like this off the ground?

Form small groups and discuss among yourselves.

The "food desert" phenomenon was basically a no-evidence feel-good theory in certain circles that has since been proven to be completely false. There's no evidence whatsoever that poorer neighborhoods in cities have less access to fresh produce--in fact, the evidence generally points the other way, that poorer urban neighborhoods tend to have *more* neighborhood healthy food options compared to wealthier areas in the suburbs. They may not be taken advantage of, for a wide variety of reasons, but they are there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/hea ... hallenged-in-studies.html

This is bullshit, I have lived in every ward of this city and ward A has no options at all if you do not have a car. Take a day trip and see for yourself.

Conformist wrote:
Quote:

CdeCoincy wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/nyr ... aste.html?ref=todayspaper

I have no experience with food co-ops, so I found this article informative. I suspect that dtjc is not considered a food desert, and don't like the idea of undermining the private businesses like Key Food, P&K, the 8 Erie street venture, etc.
One of my questions is do you think that a nabe needs a critical mass of 'gentry' to get soething like this off the ground?

Form small groups and discuss among yourselves.

The "food desert" phenomenon was basically a no-evidence feel-good theory in certain circles that has since been proven to be completely false. There's no evidence whatsoever that poorer neighborhoods in cities have less access to fresh produce--in fact, the evidence generally points the other way, that poorer urban neighborhoods tend to have *more* neighborhood healthy food options compared to wealthier areas in the suburbs. They may not be taken advantage of, for a wide variety of reasons, but they are there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/hea ... hallenged-in-studies.html

CdeCoincy wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/nyr ... aste.html?ref=todayspaper

I have no experience with food co-ops, so I found this article informative. I suspect that dtjc is not considered a food desert, and don't like the idea of undermining the private businesses like Key Food, P&K, the 8 Erie street venture, etc.
One of my questions is do you think that a nabe needs a critical mass of 'gentry' to get soething like this off the ground?

Form small groups and discuss among yourselves.

Adonis wrote:
Phrasing the question as "Is Gentrification All Bad?" implies that the presumption is that it is, at best, mostly bad.

In reality it is mostly good, if not entirely good. You question might as well be rephrased as "Is Improvement All Bad?". It's kind of an idiotic question.

borisp wrote:
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SRhia wrote:
Seems so common nowadays - having kids without a marriage license...


Quote:

MDM wrote:
I am having a bit of a baby boom with my (gentrified) tenants.

Only one couple is married though.

Wait, does it mean that the government license electrical work, plumbing, construction, teaching, and everything else that moves, - but it doesn't license procreation?

That's an oversight!