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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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Not true, they operate Metro North to CT, the equivalent to them operating NJ Transit, so a close subway with 6 stops in Manhattan is not unthinkable. Quote:
The PA treats the PATH like a stepchild, and always has, they never wanted it but took it as a condition of getting the WTC site. They have always doen the dead minimum required. The MTA does a pretty decent job given the size of their operations. Quote:
Secaucus Junction was a NJ Transit project, far as I can tell. WTC is neither new nor surface transport. I don't count the new PATH station as a "new" service, it's essentially a renovation, same with new trains and signals. The ARC didn't happen, doesn't count. I said BUILT a NEW service. Quote: Quote: More light rail would help not the trans Hudson commute but the access to the Downtown business district and the one they're trying to build in JS. I'd like to see the assholes zooming down Columbus in their BMW's pressured to take rail from a parking lot across the Hackensack. Buses are insanely slow, unless we implement the technology where they can change the light to favor them. Making more N-S roads one way and timing the lights would help. I never said JC should do any of it on it's own, and yes I lived here during the HBLR wars. Quote:
All I'm saying is the stuff should be planned together. What we're currently doing is the equivalent of building a house with 15 bedrooms and 1 bathroom and saying we'll worry about it later after there's a hour long line to crap. It's also MUCH harder to run the plumbing and build the bathrooms at that point.
Posted on: 2013/8/22 16:53
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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Jersey City is not a suburb. I don't understand these capacity arguments. The PATH is crowded. OK....which subways in any city in the world are not full of people? I've been on the MTA, Tube, Rome subway, Barcelona Metro, U & S Bahn, the Tube, Cairo subway, all are crowded.
NJT is crowded too on the suburban lines. Yet Bloomberg isn't saying actually let's leave Brooklyn to rot because the subway is crowded. It's backwards. It's what has NJ time and again. Also, the highways in JC are less crowded than in much of suburbia. Route 24 is worse than anything JC has on offer. I'm all for changing who controls the PATH, but in the interim, we'd be morons to turn down more taxpayers in areas that desperately need something besides hovels and bodegas.
Posted on: 2013/8/22 16:34
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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Mayors of all the towns that have PATH stations need to push the PA for better off peak and weekend service.
Posted on: 2013/8/22 11:24
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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now that the hblr is a prooven suuccess, i bet some naysayers would be wanting one in the nab - especially developers
Posted on: 2013/8/22 7:46
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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The MTA also operates Metro North and LIRR, both of which extend well behind New York City. MTA and NJTransit also function jointly to service Port Jervis -- all MTA from Suffern -- and Pascack Valley line trains. The PATH is at present subsidized by the airport fees and to a lesser extent by port fees; the MTA wouldn't have that revenue and PATH service would likely suffer. The region really needs regional transit agencies that transcend the petty state and municipal borders for better efficiency. Unfortunately statism is alive and well and that will never happen. Really though if you want better PATH service, write to the governor; that office has near authoritarian control over PA operations in New Jersey. Quote:
[/quote] Also: Turning Exchange Place into a terminus after 9/11 Newark Airport Monorail JFK AirTrain Outerbridge replacement Quote:
[/quote] There are plans to push the light rail terminus further west over the highway. Jersey City could consider operating or lobbying NJTransit to operate genuine Bus Rapid Transit. When done correctly with pre-pay stations, well marked entrances, dedicated right of way bus lanes and bus traffic signal control, BRT is a great alternative to conventional rail systems. Unfortunately, NJTransit and New Jersey DOT are about 30 years behind when it comes to innovating transportation. The NYTimes has a nice display of Bogot??s BRT: http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009 ... 710BOGOTA_index.html?_r=0 At present, the only thing that will relieve congestion on the PATH is the extended trains that will be able to go to WTC when Grove Street and Harrison station upgrades are made. In the long term future, a new subway line to Manhattan is probably inevitable, but such a project is decades away given the current anti-investment attitude held by many elected officials.
Posted on: 2013/8/22 3:44
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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JC can't possibly afford it. Heck, the entire state of New Jersey can't afford it. A new tunnel would require federal funding. And they aren't going to pay to build a tunnel that basically connects Greenville to Manhattan. And legally, JC can't set up transport to NYC.
Posted on: 2013/8/22 3:12
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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1) The MTA only operates in NYC. They don't have the authority or legal right to operate public transportation in New Jersey. 2) The idea that the MTA is so fantastic that they would improve PATH is laughable. They're better in some respects. But their budgeting is often a black hole, their maintenance schedule can be a nightmare, the G train is a bad joke... Quote: I don't believe the PA has built a major new surface transportation project in over half a century ? Secaucus Transfer Station ? Rebuilding WTC (obviously) ? New PATH trains ? Ongoing signal modernization for PATH They were also a key player in the ARC tunnel, which was cancelled by Christie. Quote: A subway is utterly impractical, but we should consider a light rail on the west side of town.... 1) That's expensive, much more than adding bus capacity. The city would have to buy huge swaths of land, repair crews, train storage.... JC cannot possibly afford it. 2) HBLR was built and is operated by NJ Transit, not by municipalities 3) A new rail line won't relieve PATH congestion 4) Have you already forgotten about the intense opposition to the HBLR prior to construction? Or did you just not live in JC then? ;)
Posted on: 2013/8/22 3:01
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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Home away from home
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That was a misprint in the WSJ. They mixed up the 5-year and 10-year zones. Should be vice versa from what was printed.
Posted on: 2013/8/22 2:18
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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That's the current residents of existing housing. When they build new office and residential towers, since there will be only a small minority of people who both live and work in those new structures, there's going to be a lot of new people both coming and going from JS. I'm not arguing to not redevelop JS, I'm arguing that it needs to be part of an overall plan, so we don't ping pong from crisis to crisis. The HBLR was an amazing piece of new infrastructure, but we need more. We need more PATH capacity. And the PATH should be wrested away from the PA who drips in life support, and run by the MTA who at least considers themselves actually in the public transit business, not the real estate business. I don't believe the PA has built a major new surface transportation project in over half a century, since the 3rd Lincoln tube opened in 57. A subway is utterly impractical, but we should consider a light rail on the west side of town, say up 440 and 1-9 to Downtown through the Bergen Arches and the 6th st embankment. And a line from Downtown out the Arches to a Secaucus Park & Ride, or even the Meadowlands & whatever Xanadu is going to be now. Parts of this have been discussed for years. I'm talking about the the "vision thing". Not saying "we're gonna make a problem and let someone else down the road worry about how to solve it long after we're gone".
Posted on: 2013/8/21 22:51
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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Exactly! well said, besides most of my neighbors have not been to NYC in years. People always assume if you live in JC you must work in NYC lots of people from GV work in Newark, Secaucus and a few even work at Exchange place and never deal with the Path at all.
Posted on: 2013/8/21 19:36
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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And why is Newport getting 10 year abatements? Why not abatements for the Far West Side
Posted on: 2013/8/21 19:20
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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Keep in mind that JC had a much larger population in past years, so the increased density issue seems misplaced to me. In the old days the higher population probably held jobs in the local area at a much higher rate than today, which minimized the traffic and PATH issues.
With the Mayor's focus on attracting more small and medium sized businesses to the city, as well as making areas like GV and BL more attractive to retail, maybe we could be going in the direction of providing more local employment over the long term. I like the plan, and think it makes sense with the planned marketing campaign to attract small and medium sized businesses. From my own experience of owning a small biz, I know that we never got any support or interest from the local government; just alot of fees and taxes and compliance stuff. The next step would be a detailed review of how we can make it easier for small businesses get started in the city with fee breaks, reuse of abandoned properties, assistance through the myriad of city processes, etc.
Posted on: 2013/8/21 19:06
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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All urban planners and mayors should be required to play SimCity 4 (not the newer one, it sucks) and build an efficient city there first, HA!!
Posted on: 2013/8/21 18:32
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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Agreed Sutherland...almost sounds like the 20 debacle of planning the Tonnelle Circle, ha!
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Posted on: 2013/8/21 18:28
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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RU, I'm of the mindset that excessive density in Jersey City will readily overwhelm the city and it's infrastructure resulting in a reverse desirability trend.
Growth should be smart and planned. If a town can't accommodate the growth, then the risk of back fire outweighs the benefits.
Posted on: 2013/8/21 18:07
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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Sadly, the thought behind this is, more density will reduce cars because parking and traffic issues will frustrate constituents to rely more heaving on public transportation. The major fail in this is that when this has happened in other metros they had an existing and adequate public transportation system to accommodate the trend.
The unfortunate Jersey City thinking goes something like this, "Well maybe some day after we get excess density, we will figure out a way of dealing with it." Quote:
Posted on: 2013/8/21 18:04
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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You want JC to build an operate a subway system? That's not even remotely possible. The best you could hope for is some sort of dedicated bus line.
Posted on: 2013/8/21 17:49
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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Random ill-thought-out idea: JC should start looking into its own public transportation. Instead of being beholden to the PA, who's shown time and time again that they're a bunch of assclowns not willing to do a damn thing for us, why doesn't the city start its own subway system. 2 lines to start, one north south connecting gville and bela to jsq and the heights and another spur that runs east west from the jsq area into downtown, up towards newport and then into manhattan. Instead of terminating at WTC or going as far north as christopher st, it could follow the holland tunnel and end at canal st by the 1 line.
Posted on: 2013/8/21 17:37
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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Also, if "Jersey Ave North" is Cast Iron Lofts, they are served by a van to the Hoboken PATH. And that area is actually prime for growth as it will connect downtown and Hoboken and split the burdens between the two.
Posted on: 2013/8/21 16:32
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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It isn't incumbent on the city to base development on the PATH- the city has no control over the PATH.
We can't turn away developers looking to build, especially outside of downtown, because that will benefit us a lot more. And making JC (officially) the most populous NJ city will hopefully push towards getting a governor who won't let them off the hook. But JC waiting for development until the PATH improves will leave us stunted. And furthermore, the NJ Supreme Court has held "timed growth" invalid under NJ law.
Posted on: 2013/8/21 16:30
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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Lets say this plan succeeds in developing JS to look like Downtown. Where's the plan to handle the surface and PATH traffic this would generate? People already can't get on the trains at Grove during the morning rush, what's thousands more housing units in JS and elsewhere going to do?
I'm all for development, just not the half thought out kind we seem to get here, such as planning new neighborhoods like Jersey Ave North without a park.
Posted on: 2013/8/21 16:15
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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Fantastic, most of these areas can be destination spots due to the light rail and path. I think I will go house hunting. :)
Posted on: 2013/8/21 14:48
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Re: Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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This might be a good time to buy a place in BeLa or JSQ.
Posted on: 2013/8/21 14:42
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Wall Street Journal: Tax Shift in Jersey City -- New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less...
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Tax Shift in Jersey City
New Mayor Aims to Attract Development to Less Saturated Neighborhoods  By HEATHER HADDON Wall Street Journal Jersey City's gleaming corporate towers and luxury residential skyscrapers were built in the past three decades with the aggressive use of tax breaks that helped transformed its waterfront district. Now, the city's new mayor, Steve Fulop, says he will steer those tax breaks away from the waterfront in hopes of attracting development, residents and companies to poorer and less saturated neighborhoods in New Jersey's second-largest city. The Goldman Sachs Tower, left, and other buildings on Jersey City's skyline were developed with tax breaks. Mr. Fulop said his plan?to be announced this week?would give more incentives to developers building particularly in two other neighborhoods with plentiful transit options: Journal Square, which has a PATH station three stops from Manhattan, and Bergen-Lafayette neighborhoods, which has several light-rail stops. The sweeping overhaul of the tax-break plan would precede the city's launch this fall of a $1 million marketing campaign targeting New York companies and residents to move across the Hudson River for cheaper space. "There's a window for us to be aggressive," said Mr. Fulop, who took office in July after defeating the incumbent mayor, Jerramiah Healy. Mr. Fulop's plan would mark a significant shift in development policy for Jersey City, which has successfully wooed Wall Street commercial tenants and young professionals from New York City in recent years. Its Hudson River skyline was spurred by the city's tax policies, with nearly every waterfront tower?including those housing Goldman Sachs and Merrill Lynch?getting breaks known as abatements, Mr. Fulop said. Tax abatements have been embraced by cities across the country to spur development, including New York, where new towers on the Brooklyn and Queens waterfronts have received breaks. Each deal is structured differently, but typically allow a developer to forgo a certain portion of state property, school or county taxes for a set number of years. The property is typically still on the hook for local taxes, and in Jersey City, roughly 20% of its $516 million budget comes from properties that have tax abatements. Jersey City has "utilized the program much more than the neighboring communities," said Robert Kossar, an executive managing director at Jones Lang LaSalle Americas Inc., the broker for developers in Jersey City that used abatements. Developers say the incentives are essential for building in cities, which typical have higher construction costs than in the suburbs. But Jersey City's abatement program has been criticized. Some argue the tax breaks starve the state and school districts of revenue and give local officials unregulated say over fiscal decisions affecting the rest of the state. State Comptroller Matthew Boxer cited Jersey City in a 2010 report that found significant revenue was being lost through tax abatements. The city exempted property valued at roughly $2 billion at the time, leading to a loss of about $120 million in property taxes and $30 million in Hudson County revenues, the report found. The city currently has abatements on 151 properties, a spokeswoman said. Their value wasn't available Tuesday. As a City Council member, Mr. Fulop was a strident critic of the abatements, saying they were ripe for mismanagement and given out too freely. He said he would?for the first time?set firm criteria for giving out abatements based on where the developers built in the city to spur more investment in targeted areas. "We're trying to move away from the stigma that Jersey City has had for a long time that it's about who you know," Mr. Fulop said. "We are taking the politics out of this." Mr. Healy defended his use of tax abatements, saying negotiated agreements were better than a set policy. "I like to have the most discretion possible," he said in an interview. Mr. Healy said the process of awarding the tax breaks was transparent and the Jersey City waterfront wouldn't have been rebuilt without them. "It was abandoned railroad yards and abandoned rotting warehouses. Everyone was afraid to invest down there," Mr. Healy said. The abatement program grew, in part, out of a 1961 state law that allowed localities to provide tax breaks in so-called blighted areas. The law was further expanded in 1992, allowing for more urban areas to qualify. Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop is reviewing tax breaks for buildings. Jersey City warmed to tax breaks in the 1980s, when the city was losing its waterfront industry and residents. In 1986, the LeFrak Organization tapped abatements to help build the 600-acre Newport mixed-use development on the waterfront. Jersey City was sued in 2009 by a developer who accused the Healy administration of favoritism when a competitor received a more generous tax break. The city settled the suit last year, giving the plaintiff nearly $900,000 more in tax breaks. Mr. Fulop set up a transition team to review the abatement program this year. Developers with current abatements?such as LeFrak?were at the table. A review found that some were given out without the developer providing justification, said William O'Dea, an Elizabeth economic-development official who consulted with the committee. "Very few of the abatements had a thorough market study review," said Mr. O'Dea, a Hudson County Freeholder who backed Mr. Fulop. "It just became like crack in the rush to get so much development done." Mr. Fulop's plan creates a four-tier system of abatements lasting between five and 30 years, with the longest ones available in the areas targeted for redevelopment. The shortest ones will still be available for the waterfront. Developers can get additional tax breaks if they build pre-schools or use local labor on their projects. Mr. Kossar said Journal Square's market has shown promise. He said there would still be interest in building on the city's waterfront. Mr. Fulop said he plans to adopt the new policy with an executive order in the next week. It will be used on abatements as early as those under review during next Wednesday's City Council meeting, he said. Write to Heather Haddon at heather.haddon@wsj.com http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001 ... 04579025243073810018.html
Posted on: 2013/8/21 14:27
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