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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Quite a regular
 
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I think this is the flood map you should be using. Most all of downtown JC is a flood zone. This zone is usually an AE zone, which means it's an established flood zone. The feds will require flood insurance for all AE zones. Type in your address and then click the PDF link for more details. Having lived here for 10 years I wouldn't live anywhere south of Columbus. They always get hammered. There are two areas that seem to be safe. 1 is around where Erie and Bay meet and around there. Also, up on the East side of Hamilton park is safe from floods. Lastly, there is a hill in Paulus Hook on Montgomery street. That's the highest point in downtown JC. These properties will NOT require flood insurance. Remember, flood insurance is around 500 per year for non-flood zones, 5000 a year for established flood zone, and will be 30k a year for "velocity zones" which generally are right on the beach. That is why people on the shore are abandoning their homes as they aren't worth insuring.
http://www.region2coastal.com/sandy/table
Posted on: 2013/8/9 14:28
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
 
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What I rarely see mentioned is that the flooding marked on the map shows where the water is higher than the surface of the ground. Water never reached my stoop, but my house extends 9 or 10 feet below ground. Sea water from the surge poured into the combined sewer system and filled it to the same level, gushing into peoples basement floor drains, toilet and shower drains if they were low enough and if there were no backflow preventer. If we had had heavy rain, that would have poured in the same way from the roof drain, even if there were a backflow preventer. And many people found that even though a back valve prevented water from entering through their sewer pipes, if their neighbor's basement flooded, the water came through and underneath the walls. Many areas downtown were once marsh that was filled in and the ground there completely saturated. If the houses there had not had porous foundations that let the seawater fill them, they might have floated away. (That might be an exaggeration but the principle is true)
The point that I am trying to make is that any map only tells the relationship between the land and water elevations, and there is a lot going on underground that people tend to overlook.
Posted on: 2013/8/5 16:33
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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I think we're debating the terms "actual flooding" and "at risk". The blue area on the map you posted probably better represents the 50 or 100-year flood risk as defined by the insurers. The map I posted probably better represents what actually happened during Sandy, at least in my part of JC. Both pieces of info are important to interested parties such as potential buyers and renters.
Giving interested parties some insights into what happened during Sandy, as well as links to the FEMA and insurer details is important. Where we as JClisters can help, is providing local perspective over and above what's available on Google.
Posted on: 2013/8/5 14:21
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Just can't stay away
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FEMA may benefit from a map that is vague about the exact height or source of flood damages, but I'd still prefer to err on the side of caution when considering purchasing below ground real estate (which is what this thread is about). Would you feel comfortable purchasing and living in the basement of something that's blue on my map but not yours? I guess buyers coming to this thread should identify themselves as conservative buyers or not before anyone can answer their question.
Of course we all need to be cautious of the data presented to us, both anecdotal and researched. I know you were just using your map as a representation of the actual flooding (which is a bit of a relative term, really), but anyone clicking through should also note that the map "is not a carefully surveyed and extremely accurate presentation. It is intended to provide a visual impression of which geographic areas might be flooded if global warming and climate change continue unabated."
Posted on: 2013/8/5 12:52
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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Quote:
http://geology.com/sea-level-rise/new-york.shtml Set this map at 3-4m and that's a better picture of DT areas flooded during Sandy, and not the 6m or so in your post.
Posted on: 2013/8/4 18:31
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Just can't stay away
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Quote:
Until JCList comes up with The Totally Scientific Flood Map of New Jersey That Satisfies Every Users' Complaint And Every Newbs' Question, this is the one I'll continue to use as my general reference.
Posted on: 2013/8/4 17:47
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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Quote:
You are incorrect only about the source of the basement flooding, it was seawater from the flooded sewers, there was actually very little rain from Sandy for us.
Posted on: 2013/8/4 17:30
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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Quote:
The problem with the map is that it doesn't distinguish between areas that suffered real damage, and those that didn't. On 9th street, 3-4 houses west of Monmouth may have had some basement seepage, but the map seems to indicate that 4 or so blocks west of HP were flooded. That's wrong. The people drawing the map have simply superimposed the height of the storm surge on a geological survey of the area. The problem with this approach is that the surge didn't hit west of Hamilton, and most if not all flooding was due to the rainfall running off the turnpike and heights. It suits FEMA and the insurance companies to depict the flooding as worse than it actually was. This incorrect info needs to be challenged.
Posted on: 2013/8/4 14:25
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Just can't stay away
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I don't think the map claims to differentiate between major and minor flooding, and minor basement flooding due to storm runoff is still flooding, hence a blue spot. That doesn't make it "wrong."
Anyway, I said it was general info... take it or leave it.
Posted on: 2013/8/4 13:51
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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Quote:
The "actual" flooding is wrong. 9th street west of hamilton was nowhere near as bad as depicted in this map, just some minor basement flooding due to storm runoff. I think they simply have extrapolated the height of the storm surge onto map - and the surge itself didn't reach that far inland.
Posted on: 2013/8/4 13:38
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Just can't stay away
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This link will give you some general info about what flooded during Sandy:
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/tech ... real-sandy-flooding/3988/ First and Erie looks pretty good.
Posted on: 2013/8/4 13:18
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Newbie
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Hi everyone,
i'm planning on moving to downtown jersey city..in 1st street and Erie Street. Does anyone know How was the flood situation there during irene and sandy? I was looking at the responses, and i can't see anything about these streets.. i did however used this website (that i also found here) and noticed that this street is is above sea level.. http://geology.com/sea-level-rise/new-york.shtml any response will be appreciated :) Thank you!!
Posted on: 2013/6/27 16:41
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Speaking from experience, if you own any floor it is the CA's responsibility if the roof on the top unit goes and if the basement floods. Just because the first unit may be a basement unit doesn't make the first unit responsible for paying for the sumps. It's draining the foundation. What you may encounter however is an ignorant CA who assumes the first floor should be responsible and a first floor that takes on much more because of this - but ultimately everyone is responsible.
Posted on: 2013/6/14 2:02
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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I agree with the other posters that Yes, being on a high floor, your apartment won't be flooded (unless it's the flood that will end the world), but any shared facilities placed in the basement will be gone, and depending on what they are, you life may get very miserable.
We live on the top floor in a small brownstone in DTJC. Our basement was flooded during Sandy, and that took out the bulding's HVAC and water boilers. So there was no heat, and no hot water for about 3 weeks for us. Since we're on the top floor, our apartment got really cold, and become inhabitable (I have friends who lived in attached brownstones and they were able to stick it out), but it's impossible for us. We had to find alternative lodging for 3 weeks after Sandy, until the hvac and water heaters were installed. And of course, being part of the condo assoc, we had to chip in to demolish / clean the basement (the common areas), and the install of all the equipment. So, long story short, even though our apartment was not touched by flood water, emotionally and montary-wise, we were heavily impacted by Sandy still. Oh wait, we did lose our bikes that were stored in the basement  Quote:
Posted on: 2013/6/14 0:09
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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You also have to consider that though the ground unit is most directly impacted, you want the foundation walls and building structure to remain sound. So a lot of this stuff can't simply be left to the ground unit to address. I know that one building I'd looked at had a pretty ugly fight between owners, until the above-ground owners realized that they had an interest in making sure the downstairs was protected (both for electrical/water heater and structural reasons). So the condo association as a whole invested in sump pumps and other 'anti-flood' measures. You should definitely look into what flood insurance is carried by the association vs individual units. I don't know how that works.
Posted on: 2013/6/13 17:53
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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Quote:
The expense of repairing any of the common areas of the building and the possible loss of electric and water service will affect you. If your building has to replace a boiler, hot water heater or replace electrical wiring while it is a shared expense, could get expensive. Don't forget the emotional toll of going though a disaster.
Posted on: 2013/6/13 16:59
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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I have a question somewhat related to flood-prone real estate in DTJC. I'm actually considering buying a unit on the top floor of a building in the heart of a flood-zone. While I would never consider purchasing a ground-floor or basement unit in any of these areas (at any price), are there also major risks involved in purchasing a higher floor unit in one of these buildings?
Obviously, a 3rd floor apartment will not flood, but is there the possibility a huge premium on flood insurance for the entire building? Are there indirect effects on the upper units such as backed up plumbing or mold? Any input or shared experiences would be appreciated.
Posted on: 2013/6/13 16:49
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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Sorry, but you're misapplying Pascal's law. The relevant fact in this case of a system with both tops open is that pressure is proportional ONLY to the height of the water column, the surface area is completely irrelevant. The pressure at the bottom of a 10' vertical hose is exactly the same as at the bottom of a 10' deep pool. What is more likely happening is a "sink strainer" drain effect where the system is filling faster than it can drain.
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Posted on: 2013/5/28 16:37
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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This is a good discussion as this issue will only get to more problematic as developers add more units to JC. My guess is most buyers have no clue how bad and outdated the sewer systems are around here. Someone could probably do a nice little side biz if they could get the sewer blueprints and advise buyers on where the trouble spots are located...
Posted on: 2013/5/28 14:01
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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I am in an spot where three sewer lines from higher elevations go into one. During really heavy downpours, the water level in the sewer reaches street level (sometimes causing the manhole covers to pop up), which is well above where my sewer line connects. The property next door to me had water back up (no check valve) to where the water hit the ceiling. The pressure once actually blew out a piece of bluestone, causing his basement to drain into mine.
My property then becomes something like we would do in science class as a kid to show Pascal's Law: The one where you have a tall but skinny column of water draining into a large flat dish. The water stays high in the column because force*surface area over the dish is equal to the force*surface area of the column. My sewer line is that column and the first floor apartment shower drain is only a foot or so above street level. So it doesn't take much for the water to start coming out of the shower drain. A few years back, I mapped out every storm drain that was backing up from my place down to Rt. 137. JCMUA came in and repaired a number of collapsed pipes. Since then, the backup problems are not nearly as bad.
Posted on: 2013/5/28 12:12
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I'm sure something is causing your flooding problem, but the physics of what you're describing is impossible. Water seeks it's own level. So even if the sewer level is right up to the street, water running down your leader will create more pressure on the inside of your check valve as it rises than than the water in the sewer is on the outside, and thus drain into it. It's like a outward swinging door that has a man on one side trying to push in, if you put two guys on the other side pushing out, that door will open. There's a lot of misunderstanding of hydrodynamics out there. A common one is that it's better to pump into the street than back into the your sewer main. In fact, your pump does better to the main, since all a pump really cares about is how high it has to lift the column of water. For most of us the water level in the sewer is lower than the street, thus the pump only has to raise the water to the height of the level in the sewer when you hook it up to your drain. Whether that column of water is 1" in a hose or a whole swimming pool, the pressure is the same: 0.5 psi per ft of height.
Posted on: 2013/5/28 3:17
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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I have a check valve on my line. The problem I run into though it the hydrostatic pressure will exceed what is produced by the water coming down via my roof.
As a result water from my roof drain will instead drain into the 1st floor apartments (comes out of the shower drain and toilet). The damage was pretty horrific. JC doesn't allow you to duct a roof drain into the street.. at least they didn't when I redid this building over a decade back. I have a crude fix to prevent such a backup from happening again..
Posted on: 2013/5/28 0:07
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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A check valve will keep sewer water from coming out of your basement toilet shower or sink, but it won't keep the water from seeping out of the cracked, leaky sewer main and undermining your foundation as it finds it way into your basement through the inevitable cracks. A basement is not a watertight ship, it was never meant to be. But it was never meant to sit in a bathtub of water from flooded incontinent sewers.
Posted on: 2013/5/28 0:00
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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would be really interesting to see what would happen to JC sewer system if every residence had a functional checkvalve. I suspect the system would blow up due to the pressure.
Also, checkvalves have to be maintained. They can get stuck and not work if they're not able to move properly. Also if checkvalve is functioning during a flood/backup - probably not a great idea to flush your own toilet, take shower etc as it'll have no place to go...
Posted on: 2013/5/27 13:43
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
Joined:
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Quote:
The check valves were for sprinkler systems in Condos, etc. NOT sewer lines. Check valves are of dubious value since it passes along the backup problem to someone else.
Posted on: 2013/5/27 2:38
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
Joined:
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Just curious... what ever happened with the JC government push to have Back Flow Preventives / Check Valves installed everywhere.
I recall there was a backlash. Guaranteed these will help with flooding problems. During Hurricane Irene, my building got like 3 feet of water in the basement. You can still see the water marks. Then Between Irene and Sandy, we had a water main pipe burst. While they were replacing that, my building also had a check valve put in at the same time to save money since they were already digging everything up. Worked like a charm. Almost no water with Sandy. If I were going to get a basement or even first floor apartment, I would want to make sure one of these contraptions has been installed. Can anyone else can chime in here on the effectiveness of back flow preventers? F
Posted on: 2013/5/27 0:34
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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This is true, but the new pumps won't be installed until August after hurricane season has started. Everything has to be custom made and a lot of fiery approvals to jump through to finally get here several years later.
We can't wait for the new pumps to be put in place. Hurricane season starts June 1st, but really we have already had two heavy storms. So the JCMUA is bringing in 3-4 temporary pumps to the end of York Street as a hold over until August. These pumps aren't as powerful as the permanent pumps to be installed, but they will offer a lot of relief during high tide if not complete relief. Other areas and solutions are being looked at as well. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/5/26 13:19
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soshin: Mention guns and bd pops up through a hole in the ground like a heavily armed meercat
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
Joined:
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Quote:
RUN! I lived at 284 Barrow, tween Mercer/Montgomery, in duplex with basement that flooded during heavy rains and sewage also backed up regularly into apt due to JC has a CSS system which MUA said downtown JC would need $150+million to fix, Healy said during debates, :New Jersey hasn;t enough money to fix", so I moved out when lease was up. I now am on 3rd street, tween Erie.Jersey Ave., and we've been lucky so far. However, I also now live in unit on 3rd floor. Caveat emptor. 
Posted on: 2013/5/25 11:08
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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Parts of Lafayette flood also. They've been adding pumps and changing sewers, but areas definitely flood.
Posted on: 2013/5/25 0:56
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Re: Flood Zone Real Estate
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Home away from home
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I don't think the people on this thread are saying that all of downtown floods - in fact, I have lived downtown in various locations over the past 12 years and have never gotten a drop of water in any apt/home. However, what long-term residents of downtown Jersey City do know is that it is the same houses/streets that flood repeatedly. If a house has flooded in the past, it is very likely that it will do so again. Everytime there is a storm, I walk around downtown and assess. Same houses every time.
Posted on: 2013/5/24 17:33
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