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Re: Made With Love - CLOSED
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maybe in the heights, gv, and bl but us downtowners don't want those 99c, rainbow dream stores here.


Well you DTer’s have a funny way of showing your support for the DT businesses that “you DO want here”. The ones that are slowly replacing those 99c dream stores that you mock. There are a lot of threads on JCList about how the businesses that are replacing those 99c dream stores are closing. (shame on you) Except for the ones that sell alcohol of course. (cheers can’t blame you)

Yes the 99 cent stores are a fixture in the Heights, Greenville, and Bergen- Lafayette, and WE support them every single day. Small 99c dream stores and smaller bodega’s are very convenient. Love walking a few steps in either direction being able to stop in for a 50c cup of coffee, a newspaper (yes the NY Post, not the NYT’s) and a $1.25 24 pack of knockoff Oreo cream filled black and white cookies. (on Friday’s I am right there for the 2 packages for 2 dollars deal)

Oh yeah and you can not beat the characters that run the places and even better the bodega groupies that hang out inside of the store ALL day. (I want that job) I only wish I could understand more Spanish, along with Vietnamese, Tagalog, Hindi and Arabic. Well maybe not because I would hate to know what the translation for “big goofy white man” was. Funny I have been going to one store for years and I think the only thing the guy has ever said to me was his daily “2 dollar 75 cents” line. Can’t beat that for customer service, the ultimate in not being a pushy salesman.

Tip: the trick to shopping in the countless JC bodega’s is NOT to look at the expiration dates when buying packages food like cookies and cakes. Also do a smell test on the red meat and chicken before purchasing. They don’t mind if you ask for a quick sniff, it is expected.


Hey all you rich newcommers in the 07310 zip code come on over to the other JC zip codes (during the daylight hours of course) and spend some of the cash that you are saving by renting in JC versus the Big Apple…we don’t bite. (no pun intended) We love to venture down to all of your DT joints that we read about on JCList so you guys should return the favor. A favor that you also owe us for wiping out retail in the rest of JC with your precious Newport Mall. Signed.. the 220K “other” Jersey City peeps, your NEIGHBOR’s.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 21:33

Edited by neverleft on 2013/1/6 21:54:33
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Re: Made With Love - CLOSED
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Poor business plan and no understanding of JC's demographics and socio-economic communities - JC will always be nothing more then a business haven for the 99c Dream and a fast food franchise mecca.


maybe in the heights, gv, and bl but us downtowners don't want those 99c, rainbow dream stores here.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 16:34
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Poor business plan and no understanding of JC's demographics and socio-economic communities - JC will always be nothing more then a business haven for the 99c Dream and a fast food franchise mecca.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 15:49
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They closed for a bunch of reasons:
~poor profit margins on baked goods
~ poor foot traffic, other than early morning, when they were closed.
~ high rent
~ quality, consistency and customer service were spotty.

I applaud them for trying ~ it took guts and a lot of hard work. While I didn't frequent them, I am sorry to see another empty storefront. It's very difficult to make a go of any new business in this bedroom community of Manhattan.

If any of us had an answer for an easy buck, we'd sign a five year lease ourselves and put some flesh into the game. You have to be equally parts creative and lucky to come up with a profitable, small biz. It's far easier for most of us to keep complaining and working for the man, I guess.


Jack's was amazing on so many levels (beautifully executed store, merch well presented, suoer friendly & professional owner, okayish hours, etc) but the Internet completion and lack of commitment to local biz support probably forced it's closing.

The owner is a neighbor of mine and other neighbor's who knew and loved her would routinely pick up toys for birthday party gifts and whatever over at Target. Duh? Why not support a local, small biz owner, even if prices may have been slightly more than mass merchants?

Posted on: 2013/1/6 1:08
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I asked her once who her coffee roaster was and she
wouldn't tell me-weird. Never gave her my business again.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 21:12
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mfadam wrote:

if all the people complaining about MWL's pricing focused on the much bigger expense of say JC property taxes, perhaps we could get somewhere...


We do that too, in case you haven't noticed other threads about JC government, the property reval, etc. If a retailer charges too much, the solution is simple: we don't shop there. If property taxes are too high, well you either move (not that simple an equation as they're high EVERYWHERE in the state) or you vote in a more responsible government. The latter is a formidable task given the entrenched corruption and patronage.

Snowflake20: I once paid $40 for an apple pie there. It was a last-minute dessert I needed for an office party. The pie was beautiful and delicious, but you're right, it's something I would only buy once under extraordinary circumstances.



Actually I think I paid closer to 50 for it, but I wasn't sure if that was right.

But again, Celeste is a very nice woman and did make great food! It was just too much money for me to be a regular customer.


It was too much for any of us to be a regular customer. Most of us live here because the cost of living is cheaper, less expensive, etc..
Stop opening up unnecessary, over priced, novelty, BS shops that the masses do not need.. This is not The Town of Greenwich.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 17:11
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mfadam wrote:

if all the people complaining about MWL's pricing focused on the much bigger expense of say JC property taxes, perhaps we could get somewhere...


We do that too, in case you haven't noticed other threads about JC government, the property reval, etc. If a retailer charges too much, the solution is simple: we don't shop there. If property taxes are too high, well you either move (not that simple an equation as they're high EVERYWHERE in the state) or you vote in a more responsible government. The latter is a formidable task given the entrenched corruption and patronage.

Snowflake20: I once paid $40 for an apple pie there. It was a last-minute dessert I needed for an office party. The pie was beautiful and delicious, but you're right, it's something I would only buy once under extraordinary circumstances.



Actually I think I paid closer to 50 for it, but I wasn't sure if that was right. I mean, that sounds ridiculous but since you said you paid 40 then my initlal thought must have been right. It was a pecan pie and I ordered it a week before thanksgiving.

But again, Celeste is a very nice woman and did make great food! It was just too much money for me to be a regular customer.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 16:52
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Reading all the comments several things come though, she was very good at baking and knew what should go into her products not sure if she had a business plan. I think if she did she would have known that JC was not the demographic for her products. She might have done well on the upper east side of Manhattan or Princeton NJ. If she had a business plan she would have known at what price points for her products in JC would be acceptable and figured this into her cost of goods.
This seems to be the story of many of the small retailers in JC that open and close good intentions and no business sense.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 16:07
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Scottacus wrote:
I certainly didn't mean to make this thread about incomes in downtown JC, but since the question has been raised, here are the latest Census Bureau figures for 2011:

Median household income in 07310 (mostly Newport) is $127,260. Median income in 07302 (mostly downtown but also a bit west of the Turnpike) is $89,278.

Looking closer at incomes downtown, there is a very large disparity by race/ethnicity. Non-hispanic white households have an average income of $106K and Asian households $116K, while African-American households have an average income of $47K and Hispanic households have an income of $39K. So definitely a wide range of incomes. White and Asian households make up about 2/3 of 07302, while African-American and Hispanic households make up about 1/3.

To the point about roommates: the median income of all non-family households with no children and with more than one person (many of which are homes with roommates) have incomes of $134K where the "householder" is female and $146k where the householder is male. So these households have much higher incomes vs the median.

These numbers do not look all that different than they do in Hoboken, where the median household income is $105K. However, the number of households in Hoboken with this level of income is a bit higher.

thanks for these numbers ... these confirm the (not-so) subtle socio- economic segregation in dtjc ... and that high end developments bring in higher earning households ...

Posted on: 2013/1/5 15:32
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mfadam wrote:

if all the people complaining about MWL's pricing focused on the much bigger expense of say JC property taxes, perhaps we could get somewhere...


We do that too, in case you haven't noticed other threads about JC government, the property reval, etc. If a retailer charges too much, the solution is simple: we don't shop there. If property taxes are too high, well you either move (not that simple an equation as they're high EVERYWHERE in the state) or you vote in a more responsible government. The latter is a formidable task given the entrenched corruption and patronage.

Snowflake20: I once paid $40 for an apple pie there. It was a last-minute dessert I needed for an office party. The pie was beautiful and delicious, but you're right, it's something I would only buy once under extraordinary circumstances.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 13:49
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Giovanna, those are very cool maps. Thanks!

Posted on: 2013/1/5 13:44
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if all the people complaining about MWL's pricing focused on the much bigger expense of say JC property taxes, perhaps we could get somewhere...

Posted on: 2013/1/5 12:52
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She is moving out of the area. On her facebook page she is saying she wants to move out of the country or something.

She seemed like a nice person and the $1 charge went towards the generator after Sandy. I think she was pretty upset that people were bashing her about it.

I went there a few times and it really was expensive. I special ordered a pie once and it cost me a ton of money. Like $30 or something like that. Maybe it was $20. I don't remember but I was like "D'oh!" when I found out how much it was. Price aside, it was the best pie I ever ate! But still, not something I would ever order again because it was just way too expensive. I can't justify the expense.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 6:13
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Nice lady, but special orders weren't filled on time. Very odd.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 0:34
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I enjoyed MWL and will miss it. The tres leches cake is one of the best desserts I've ever had. Love the black bottoms, and the grab and go dinners were delicious. Her meatloaf is better than my mom's. Celeste is a great person and I always enjoyed chatting with her when I stopped in. Was MWL pricey? A bit, but I am happy to pay a little more to support a JC business. There may be cheaper places in the city, but who wants to schlep in just for a slice of banana bread?

Posted on: 2013/1/4 23:15
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VERY VERY nice woman. Caring and kind to all neighbors, especially kids. Baked goods quality varied from excellent to passable, definitely high price point. Business acumen clearly lacking.

Posted on: 2013/1/4 22:10
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$60 for a cake. $5 for a cookie. $1 to charge your phone during a natural disaster. Good riddance!!!

Posted on: 2013/1/4 21:27
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Add me to the list of people who felt the service was lacking. I went in a few times and after waiting around for someone to come to the counter they were usually sold out of whatever I wanted to buy. I know it's difficult to run a small business, but you have to make time for the people who want to be your customers.

I wish Celeste luck with whatever she decides to do next.

Posted on: 2013/1/4 20:03
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Made with Love would have done better if they relocated to Paulus Hook. They should look at the space on Morris where school of wine was to open.

Posted on: 2013/1/4 18:53
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Giovanna wrote:
Here is a good map from WNYC showing median income by census tract: http://project.wnyc.org/acs2011/income.html#13.00/40.7359/-74.0312

Hover to see the data for each tract.

Side note: WNYC's website has great maps. Have you seen their storm surge map? http://project.wnyc.org/storm-surge/


This map is much closer to what I thought ... with most of Downtown JC (like Hoboken) in that $50k-$100k range.

It's interesting because there are obviously a ton of people in JC and Hoboken in the 23-27 age group, who typically do not earn much money. If you were to do a Hoboken/Downtown JC income survey on the 30+ crowd, you'd see some pretty high numbers. Housing is expensive here.

Posted on: 2013/1/4 17:17
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Amy wrote:
To repeat a previous poster's point, even if the median HOUSEHOLD income was 90k, split that between two adults, and it's not a lot. Throw in a couple of kids, and that's really a struggle in this area.


That's correct, it seems like a very small income, but median household incomes always seems smaller than you'd think. $90k is actually very high for a household income, even in the Northeast. Wealthy towns such as Westfield, Chatham, Garden City, etc have average household incomes around $100-110k. It seems strange, but don't forget that these numbers, for any town/city, include retirees, whose household income is typically $0.

Posted on: 2013/1/4 17:11
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Scottacus wrote:
I certainly didn't mean to make this thread about incomes in downtown JC, but since the question has been raised, here are the latest Census Bureau figures for 2011:

Median household income in 07310 (mostly Newport) is $127,260. Median income in 07302 (mostly downtown but also a bit west of the Turnpike) is $89,278.

Looking closer at incomes downtown, there is a very large disparity by race/ethnicity. Non-hispanic white households have an average income of $106K and Asian households $116K, while African-American households have an average income of $47K and Hispanic households have an income of $39K. So definitely a wide range of incomes. White and Asian households make up about 2/3 of 07302, while African-American and Hispanic households make up about 1/3.

To the point about roommates: the median income of all non-family households with no children and with more than one person (many of which are homes with roommates) have incomes of $134K where the "householder" is female and $146k where the householder is male. So these households have much higher incomes vs the median.

These numbers do not look all that different than they do in Hoboken, where the median household income is $105K. However, the number of households in Hoboken with this level of income is a bit higher.

The problem with this is you had to factor in too many other areas of downtown to get these numbers. My numbers came from the 10 block radius of the bakery itself.

None of these folks making the money you say they are making are rushing down Jersey Ave to shop, they are taking the path to NYC are getting in the cars to short hills.

For example where I live Port Liberty (which is 179k average ) are minutes from the Richard/Danforth lightrail areas but you can not put a organic bakery on old Bergen road and hope those folks will stop by... bakeries would not survive charging big $$$$$$$$ for small items that people can get in NYC for about the same price or half that.

Posted on: 2013/1/4 16:53
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I certainly didn't mean to make this thread about incomes in downtown JC, but since the question has been raised, here are the latest Census Bureau figures for 2011:

Median household income in 07310 (mostly Newport) is $127,260. Median income in 07302 (mostly downtown but also a bit west of the Turnpike) is $89,278.

Looking closer at incomes downtown, there is a very large disparity by race/ethnicity. Non-hispanic white households have an average income of $106K and Asian households $116K, while African-American households have an average income of $47K and Hispanic households have an income of $39K. So definitely a wide range of incomes. White and Asian households make up about 2/3 of 07302, while African-American and Hispanic households make up about 1/3.

To the point about roommates: the median income of all non-family households with no children and with more than one person (many of which are homes with roommates) have incomes of $134K where the "householder" is female and $146k where the householder is male. So these households have much higher incomes vs the median.

These numbers do not look all that different than they do in Hoboken, where the median household income is $105K. However, the number of households in Hoboken with this level of income is a bit higher.

Posted on: 2013/1/4 16:03
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Here is a good map from WNYC showing median income by census tract: http://project.wnyc.org/acs2011/income.html#13.00/40.7359/-74.0312

Hover to see the data for each tract.

Side note: WNYC's website has great maps. Have you seen their storm surge map? http://project.wnyc.org/storm-surge/

Posted on: 2013/1/4 15:52
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Amy wrote:
To repeat a previous poster's point, even if the median HOUSEHOLD income was 90k, split that between two adults, and it's not a lot. Throw in a couple of kids, and that's really a struggle in this area.

Exactly! people are so delusional here, maybe if you lived in a small town in Texas this would be considered well off, but not here.

Posted on: 2013/1/4 14:33
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Baked goods are a low margin item. They need to sell at a good volume to be profitable, even at the higher prices that MWL had. Unless there is a constant line of people in the store, there is probably not a lot of money being made.

Posted on: 2013/1/4 14:10
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I found this site that has JC household income by zip code. (don’t know how old it is)
Looks pretty much like I thought with 07310 Newport area having the highest. (see map)

http://zipatlas.com/us/nj/jersey-city ... dian-household-income.htm

# Zip:::::Population::::: Avg. Income/H/hold::::: National Rank

1. 07310::::: 6,416::::::: $72,076.00::::: #1,321 (Newport)
2. 07302::::: 31,769::::: $45,223.00::::: #8,252 (Downtown)
3. 07307::::: 46,093::::: $38,720.00::::: #13,271 (Heights)
4. 07305::::: 58,542::::: $38,169.00::::: #13,754 (Greenville)
5. 07306::::: 54,912::::: $34,808.00::::: #17,695 (Journal Square)
6. 07304::::: 42,323::::: $31,685.00::::: #21,406 (Bergen , Westside)


Side note …I like to try every place I read about on JCList. I went to MWL great place but sorry way to expensive for my zip code taste. Never went back.

Posted on: 2013/1/4 13:41
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To repeat a previous poster's point, even if the median HOUSEHOLD income was 90k, split that between two adults, and it's not a lot. Throw in a couple of kids, and that's really a struggle in this area.

Posted on: 2013/1/4 13:09
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JustJames wrote:

As for Made With Love, yes it was expensive, yes the service was dire, the food on occasion was good, but the death knell had to have been charging a dollar to charge your phone during the hurricane.


Did they seriously do that? What the hell were they thinking?

Posted on: 2013/1/4 11:41
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I don't know, one poster said the average household income in Downtown JC is $90k, which sounds about right. $90k as a household income might be low when compared to some Manhattan neighborhoods, but in the grand scheme of things it is pretty high, and would be considered at least "upper middle class" and possibly "well off".


When I did my homework this is the information I use, which was given to me by the city, which I gave to the bank.

Historic Downtown.

Per capita money income in the past 12 months (2011 dollars), 2007-2011 $32,120 - $35,678

Median household income, 2007-2011 $57,520 - $71,180

Persons below poverty level, percent, 2007-2011 16.4% 9.4%

BTW where I live the median income per household is 74k and which does not mean allot.. it means two people are making 37k a year... but in most cases 24k a year when its three roommates renting a house for 1200 a month.

Posted on: 2013/1/3 22:03

Edited by user1111 on 2013/1/3 22:20:17
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