07310 wrote:
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brosjch wrote:
With Hoboken and low lying parts of JC seeing such flooding, I've been wondering what will the effect be on Heights real estate? Mostly Hoboken really, kinda refreshing to see the wind taken out of their bloated $property value$ sails.

Any thoughts? Will Heights see a boom...being 100 ft above sea level and all? The global warming 'alarmists' will be trumpeting Sandy as "things to come", so who will benefit?

Please, only thought-out responses. No silliness because you're butt-hurt over my tone or content.

DT JC and lower Manhattan are at or slightly above sea level if these areas are in danger of being flooded permanently this will have a negative impact on JC Heights. Flooding would cause the loss of important infrastructure such as the PATH system and the Holland tunnel and probably the Lincoln tunnel. This would also destroy much of the subway system and buildings in lower Manhattan. All the jobs that the local economy depends on would probably move far away.

CdeCoincy wrote:
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JCCheerleader wrote:
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CdeCoincy wrote:
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JCCheerleader wrote:
Good point vindication15. Why are the artists called pioneers when it's really the rich who have driven up the prices downtown because they will pay higher and higher prices. And what about the poor people who stayed Downtown after the white flight of the late 80's and the place was like a slum. Are they pioneers?

White flight out of downtown in the late 80's? News to me. By then "rich people" were busy buying row houses as soon as they came on the market, usually owner-occupied row houses, in my experience. Not sure of the dates, but it was about that time that the nabes were put on the National Register. At worst, dtjc was a commercially under-serviced inner city neighborhood with excellent transportation to high-paying jobs and with a very desirable housing stock.

My neighbor couldn't get anyone to pay $25K for a Brownstone down there in the eighties. My ex wouldn't move there in the 90's because he thought it was a dump.
So what does 'inner-city' really mean? Is it related to an 'outer-city'?

What's the address of this house - I'd like to walk by.

JCCheerleader wrote:
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CdeCoincy wrote:
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JCCheerleader wrote:
Good point vindication15. Why are the artists called pioneers when it's really the rich who have driven up the prices downtown because they will pay higher and higher prices. And what about the poor people who stayed Downtown after the white flight of the late 80's and the place was like a slum. Are they pioneers?

White flight out of downtown in the late 80's? News to me. By then "rich people" were busy buying row houses as soon as they came on the market, usually owner-occupied row houses, in my experience. Not sure of the dates, but it was about that time that the nabes were put on the National Register. At worst, dtjc was a commercially under-serviced inner city neighborhood with excellent transportation to high-paying jobs and with a very desirable housing stock.

My neighbor couldn't get anyone to pay $25K for a Brownstone down there in the eighties. My ex wouldn't move there in the 90's because he thought it was a dump.
So what does 'inner-city' really mean? Is it related to an 'outer-city'?

brosjch wrote:
With Hoboken and low lying parts of JC seeing such flooding, I've been wondering what will the effect be on Heights real estate? Mostly Hoboken really, kinda refreshing to see the wind taken out of their bloated $property value$ sails.

Any thoughts? Will Heights see a boom...being 100 ft above sea level and all? The global warming 'alarmists' will be trumpeting Sandy as "things to come", so who will benefit?

Please, only thought-out responses. No silliness because you're butt-hurt over my tone or content.

CdeCoincy wrote:
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JCCheerleader wrote:
Good point vindication15. Why are the artists called pioneers when it's really the rich who have driven up the prices downtown because they will pay higher and higher prices. And what about the poor people who stayed Downtown after the white flight of the late 80's and the place was like a slum. Are they pioneers?

White flight out of downtown in the late 80's? News to me. By then "rich people" were busy buying row houses as soon as they came on the market, usually owner-occupied row houses, in my experience. Not sure of the dates, but it was about that time that the nabes were put on the National Register. At worst, dtjc was a commercially under-serviced inner city neighborhood with excellent transportation to high-paying jobs and with a very desirable housing stock.

user1111 wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
Willie- Let's keep this to ourselves and let the naysayers say what they will. Actually, I used to be a Heights-basher but I've seen the light, especially after Sandy and I was forced to take the jitneys to Manhattan via Union City.

I friend had to take the NJ transit bus from Port Authority and it took a shocking 15 minutes around 6pm

Welcome to the light.. As far as supermarkets Willie all of JC supermarkets suck a##!

JCCheerleader wrote:
Good point vindication15. Why are the artists called pioneers when it's really the rich who have driven up the prices downtown because they will pay higher and higher prices. And what about the poor people who stayed Downtown after the white flight of the late 80's and the place was like a slum. Are they pioneers?

kitten wrote:
And now Fresh Direct delivers to the Heights. A GREAT option.

vindication15 wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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vindication15 wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
trust me there are plenty of people moving from Manhattan, Brooklyn, Hoboken and downtown j,c to the heights

Very true. Why would anyone ever want to live in NYC when all the businesses, world class restaurants, hotels, clubs, museums, and broadway are in the heights! oh wait...none of that are in the heights...

Yes artists are moving to the heights...rofl. Cause you know, artists are millionaires that will bring the wealth to your part of town. I kid, I kid, artists are great, just visit the empty, wordndown lots of the powerhouse arts district to see how artists revitalized that area.

You really seem to have no concept of economics. There's something we call "money" and not everyone has unlimited amounts of it. People usually leave NYC, including me, not because they don't like it but because they can't afford it! And some people make the choice after that to buy a single family with a yard in the Heights rather than a 1 bedroom in Downtown or Hoboken for the same budget.

Do you REALLY also not understand the cycle of the wealthy pouring into areas the impoverished artists pioneer in search of affordable space and make hip? SOHO, Alphabet City, TriBeCa, Williamsburg, DUMBO, Hoboken, DTJC. What planet are you from? I was attending SVA art school parties in Hoboken in 1982. I was working with a musician and model maker who had several years earlier went in with a couple of buddies and bought a loft building there for $40k. Certainly there were guys like you who mocked them throwing their money away!

Oh, I agree about the affordability. Prior posts made it seem like people were moving to the heights for other reasons besides not being able to afford to live somewhere else. because you know, the heights offers something unique...

as for the artists, I stand by what I said. why were the artists pioneers? They were in those areas before the rich came in and started to bring in business and development. Why not call homeless people pioneers? Thank the professionals themselves for moving into Hoboken, Newport, DTJC, not the artists...that makes no sense.

user1111 wrote:
.. As far as supermarkets Willie all of JC supermarkets suck a##!

hero69 wrote:
Willie- Let's keep this to ourselves and let the naysayers say what they will. Actually, I used to be a Heights-basher but I've seen the light, especially after Sandy and I was forced to take the jitneys to Manhattan via Union City.

I friend had to take the NJ transit bus from Port Authority and it took a shocking 15 minutes around 6pm

ExUWSguy wrote:
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If you live in a downtown bubble, you have no idea how to get out of JC besides the Path. Those of us who live outside the Path system have many, many, options of getting into NYC. There are 3 buses they go into NYC from here...

Not if you live in the Heights!!! It's either the PATH, of NJ Transit to/from the Port Authority.

Tonight, I went to take the 12:15 #123 bus to Christ Hospital, which filled up by the time 1/2 the people lined up could get on. The driver, "Carlos", helpfully told us to wait for the next (1:45am) bus... God bless you if you live in other neighborhoods. I am SO DAM@ED SORRY I moved to the Heights. It is a slum, will remain a slum, with substandard transportation to the bigger world, nothing to do, nowhere to shop except for 99 cent stores, filthy streets, a Neanderthal of a Ward Councilperson (Goughan). If Sandy has shown us anything it is that you should SPEND THE MONEY TO LIVE SOMEPLACE CIVILIZED, and not move someplace hoping for better...

kitten wrote:... what else could you want?

ExUWSguy wrote:
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If you live in a downtown bubble, you have no idea how to get out of JC besides the Path. Those of us who live outside the Path system have many, many, options of getting into NYC. There are 3 buses they go into NYC from here...

Not if you live in the Heights!!! It's either the PATH, of NJ Transit to/from the Port Authority.

Tonight, I went to take the 12:15 #123 bus to Christ Hospital, which filled up by the time 1/2 the people lined up could get on. The driver, "Carlos", helpfully told us to wait for the next (1:45am) bus... God bless you if you live in other neighborhoods. I am SO DAM@ED SORRY I moved to the Heights. It is a slum, will remain a slum, with substandard transportation to the bigger world, nothing to do, nowhere to shop except for 99 cent stores, filthy streets, a Neanderthal of a Ward Councilperson (Goughan). If Sandy has shown us anything it is that you should SPEND THE MONEY TO LIVE SOMEPLACE CIVILIZED, and not move someplace hoping for better...

If you live in a downtown bubble, you have no idea how to get out of JC besides the Path. Those of us who live outside the Path system have many, many, options of getting into NYC. There are 3 buses they go into NYC from here...

I would be fascinated to see a poll on how Manhattan bound Heights residents get there (pre-Sandy): by PATH or via a Lincoln tunnel bus. It sure sounds like large numbers take the tunnel route.

ExUWSguy wrote:
PATH is in full meltdown mode, with no end in sight, and getting in and out of Manhattan is going to be torture for the forseeable future. If this is the result of Sandy, I see NO future for the Heights other than to remain where it is, until mass transit in and out of NYC is improved drastically.

brewster wrote:
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tommyc_37 wrote:
I generally like the Heights, but without 24 hour transportation I just don't think it will ever fully take off. I wish they could extend the Hoboken Path line to terminate in the Heights, but I was told on here (by Ian I think) that it is impossible to do so.

I think JSQ will take off before the Heights. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't already, looking at how far out gentrification is occuring EAST of the city in some pretty distant neighborhoods in Brooklyn.

Here's why, an excerpt from another site, the poster lives in Manhattan:

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He: Dream House? A 900 Sqft apart ( Maybe 1200 if I'm Feeling wasteful ) less than 3 Minute bike ride from where I keep The sailboat. Walk to all Shopping, Stores, & work less than 1 mile from home. right now I live 3 Miles from work and The commute is harsh.

Me: You work in lower Manhattan right? Move here to Downtown Jersey City and you'd be very close to your ideal. Reasonable apartments, nearby marinas and an easy commute to WTC. I have a neighbor who spends her summers on her sloop at Liberty Marina. There's ferries from there to WFC.

He: Move off the island ? horrors

People would rather live in the ass end of Brooklyn and pay 3x the price than "leave NYC".

vindication15 wrote:
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Yes, rich people don't just move to certain areas. But even rich people get priced out of certain areas and move out to the next neighborhood. They certainly don't ask their realtor, "hey, do artists live here?" Comical.

thor800 wrote:
Rich people don't want to live in depressed areas because they have options - due to intelligence, common sense, family history, smart decisions, etc however they got there.

Many artists don't have these same options so they are limited in their living choices. Maybe it's not strictly a cause and effect relationship, but do you think SOHO / Lower East / Village would have ended up the same way if the city had just offered doctors / lawyers / business people incentives to move there ?

No chance. They waited until the artists made the areas nice and then moved there.

brewster wrote:
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vindication15 wrote:
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thor800 wrote:
V15 - you disagree that artists revitalize blighted areas ?

Do you have any research to back that up ? My point was that lawyers and doctors don't move into shitty areas and clean them up; thus resulting in real estate value increases. Young professionals the same. They are a lagging indicator.

http://realestate.msn.com/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=27746032#1

There is nothing special about artists that revitalize an area. I am aware of the "research" that shows artists once inhabited areas that were undesirable that are now desirable. My argument is that just because artists were there before, it's not a cause and effect relationship. Why not contribute the revitalization to the drop of crime in that area or the exodus of homeless people out of the area?


Even if it was due to the artists, what research shows that doctors or money managers, when given economic incentives, don't also bring about the same revitalization? One could argue they have more money to eat out and contribute to the local economy right?

It's a principle of fairness. Artists don't deserve special treatment. I rather have a doctor in my neighborhood than an artist any day of the week and twice on sundays.

Have you played a lot of football or been blown up by an IED? There must be some explanation as to why your brain seems unable to function, and comprehend why rich people don't need to seek out cheap workspace in blighted areas.

vindication15 wrote:
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thor800 wrote:
V15 - you disagree that artists revitalize blighted areas ?

Do you have any research to back that up ? My point was that lawyers and doctors don't move into shitty areas and clean them up; thus resulting in real estate value increases. Young professionals the same. They are a lagging indicator.

http://realestate.msn.com/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=27746032#1

There is nothing special about artists that revitalize an area. I am aware of the "research" that shows artists once inhabited areas that were undesirable that are now desirable. My argument is that just because artists were there before, it's not a cause and effect relationship. Why not contribute the revitalization to the drop of crime in that area or the exodus of homeless people out of the area?


Even if it was due to the artists, what research shows that doctors or money managers, when given economic incentives, don't also bring about the same revitalization? One could argue they have more money to eat out and contribute to the local economy right?

It's a principle of fairness. Artists don't deserve special treatment. I rather have a doctor in my neighborhood than an artist any day of the week and twice on sundays.