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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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i'm sorry that was your godmother's experience, definitely sounds ill-timed. its not a magical instant cure and obviously not all cancers are the same, i know going through cancer is really scary and uncertain, i personally would not tell someone to stop treatment or drastically change their diet in the middle of it. maybe to suggest adding certain foods, cutting back on others, while going through treatment would be helpful, and sure there are success stories out there of people who have used food to help with health conditions, but its for everyone to decide for themselves ultimately. glad she made it through.

do i think everyone who is not vegan is going to get sick or develop heart disease and diabetes? no, to say that would be silly. i did not do this for health reasons, if i get a direct health/food question i try my best to answer it but i'm only repeating research of others and my own personal experience. if someone wants to look that stuff up on their own its out there. but often when i answer their questions about my reasons for going vegan people don't really want to hear much more, and i promise i am not yelling or answering in an aggressive tone.

i do not agree with everything PETA does or has done in the past. they have done a lot to expose cruelty to animals weather it be food, fur, or the circus. i wish they would keep their focus on that. there are other groups out there that do (Mercy for Animals is the first one that comes to mind).

Posted on: 2012/9/1 18:20
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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mjcbklyn wrote:
i can see how the guy you are talking about at Subia's could be a little testy, and his reaction was uncalled for. however, i love Subia's and for the most part everyone there is super nice and friendly, as well as accommodating, when it comes to ordering something they might not typically carry, etc.

the menu is outdated, and they should print new ones. that used to be an option on the menu. however the current menu isn't 100% vegan only. there are options to add eggs to things on the breakfast menu. i've recently heard people order it without anyone freaking out, so while it may be 100% meat free, it is not 100% vegan, but probably about 95%. the food is always really good, just don't go there if you are in a hurry!

as for vegans/veg eating things that resemble meat. i get this question a lot. i grew up eating meat, as most of us did. we all enjoyed burgers, hot dogs, whatever. its not about the taste, its about the treatment and slaughter of billions of animals. so as long as no one suffered and died, i'll give it a try. familiarity is something humans are drawn to when it comes to food, why else would chain restaurants be successful even if the food is awful (i'm looking at you, Applebees)? so if i can have a 100% vegan italian sausage and pepper sandwich, i am going to do that. i really don't understand why people are so perturbed by this, enough so that i hear it often.

i think a lot of the time just by being the vegan or vegetarian in the room, there to take questions, people get defensive before i even speak one word of why i've made this choice. perhaps it brings attention to the fact that their food comes form animals and the realities that go along with that, which is something that they usually aren't thinking about.


I totally get and respect the ethos behind not wanting to harm animals. If I had to kill my own food, the extent of my meat consumption would probably be clams and mussels. Where I get angry is when groups like PETA berate people for their personal diet choices or when vegans make false or misleading claims about the health benefits of their diet.

It's a particularly touchy topic for me because my godmother nearly died when a crazy vegan friend of hers convinced her to go on a vegan diet in the middle of chemotherapy. They were making all sorts of vegetable and grass juices in her kitchen. The stuff wasn't pasteurized, which normally isn't a big deal for a person with a healthy immune system. Unfortunately, chemo weakens your immune system big time, and my godmother ended up in the hospital due to a bacterial infection from one of the juices. Thank god her doctor stepped in and put an end to the veganism experiment. She needed lots of protein to boost her white blood cells, so we spent several weeks spoon-feeding her chicken and beef broth since she was in no state to eat or keep down a steak. Happily, she survived both cancer and the ill-timed foray into veganism.

Posted on: 2012/9/1 14:08
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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i can see how the guy you are talking about at Subia's could be a little testy, and his reaction was uncalled for. however, i love Subia's and for the most part everyone there is super nice and friendly, as well as accommodating, when it comes to ordering something they might not typically carry, etc.

the menu is outdated, and they should print new ones. that used to be an option on the menu. however the current menu isn't 100% vegan only. there are options to add eggs to things on the breakfast menu. i've recently heard people order it without anyone freaking out, so while it may be 100% meat free, it is not 100% vegan, but probably about 95%. the food is always really good, just don't go there if you are in a hurry!

as for vegans/veg eating things that resemble meat. i get this question a lot. i grew up eating meat, as most of us did. we all enjoyed burgers, hot dogs, whatever. its not about the taste, its about the treatment and slaughter of billions of animals. so as long as no one suffered and died, i'll give it a try. familiarity is something humans are drawn to when it comes to food, why else would chain restaurants be successful even if the food is awful (i'm looking at you, Applebees)? so if i can have a 100% vegan italian sausage and pepper sandwich, i am going to do that. i really don't understand why people are so perturbed by this, enough so that i hear it often.

i think a lot of the time just by being the vegan or vegetarian in the room, there to take questions, people get defensive before i even speak one word of why i've made this choice. perhaps it brings attention to the fact that their food comes form animals and the realities that go along with that, which is something that they usually aren't thinking about.

Posted on: 2012/8/31 22:08
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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kitten wrote:
Oh my god! scary!! I know!

Where did you get YOUR facts about heart disease?
Vegetarians who eat loads of refined carbs and cheese, yes... they can develop heart disease. Vegans who eat plenty of vegetables would have a hard time. The fat in your arteries comes from the fat in your food. It's that simple. I got a lot of information from Dr. Fuhrman's well-researched book called "Eat to Live". So, if you are interested, you can pick up the book or do some research yourself.... or, you can ask Bill Clinton how he saved his life by going vegan.

I am finished now with this debate. Not because I think I will lose, but because I have other stuff to do, including thinking about the healthy veg recipes I will be making this weekend.

Have at it.


My facts come from the American Heart Association and the CDC. Nowhere do they say you can avoid heart disease by sticking to a plant-based diet.

Bill Clinton's life was saved by a quadruple bypass after a lifetime of excess, not because he went vegan afterwards. This is a guy who spent decades eating Southern deep-fried god-knows-what. I suspect if he had gone the route of moderation, he might not have ended up where he did and having to make drastic lifestyle changes (and I seem to recall a recent interview in which he admitted having turkey at Thanksgiving, so he's not completely vegan).

The key is moderation and making sensible choices. As Scottacus said, eating is not a binary choice for most people. And fwiw, have you ever tried Trader Joe's meatless meatballs? I love those things more than real meatballs - something about the texture and taste.

Posted on: 2012/8/31 15:39
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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Or you can just eat red meat and wash it down with copious amounts of red wine.

Much more fun.


You. I like you.

Posted on: 2012/8/31 14:39
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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kitten wrote:

Meat is calorie dense - yes. Nutrient-dense? not really.
There is double the amount of protein in 100 calories of broccoli than 100 calories of red meat.


Compare the two based on nutrient density per unit mass or volume and run your numbers again.

Posted on: 2012/8/31 14:18
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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Where did you get YOUR facts about heart disease?
Vegetarians who eat loads of refined carbs and cheese, yes... they can develop heart disease. Vegans who eat plenty of vegetables would have a hard time. The fat in your arteries comes from the fat in your food. It's that simple. I got a lot of information from Dr. Fuhrman's well-researched book called "Eat to Live". So, if you are interested, you can pick up the book or do some research yourself.... or, you can ask Bill Clinton how he saved his life by going vegan.

I am finished now with this debate. Not because I think I will lose, but because I have other stuff to do, including thinking about the healthy veg recipes I will be making this weekend.

Have at it.


There are many positive health benefits to eating a diet that has a large quantity of vegetables.

That said, saying "The fat in your arteries comes from the fat in your food. It's that simple" is not really true. The fat in your body is a result of excess calorie storage. Those calories can come from fat, protein, or carbohydrates. Fat is calorie dense (9 calories per gram vs 4 for protein and carbs), so fat is much more likely to be stored vs burned. And what builds up in arteries is a complex mix of specific fats, white blood cells, and other matter over which genetics plays a major role.

Everyone, whether meat-eating, vegan, or vegetarian, can have a healthy diet or an unhealthy diet. There are plenty of unhealthy vegetarians who load up on cheese and full-fat tofu, and there are plenty of meat-eaters who eat a lot of vegetables and less red meat who are quite healthy.

Too many people like to set up eating choices as binary - vegans vs people who eat a huge bloody steak every night. The truth is there are many possible ways of eating that can be quite healthy, including vegetarian and vegan diets and diets containing meat (even some red meat).

Posted on: 2012/8/31 14:09
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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JadedJC wrote:
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kitten wrote:
Meat is calorie dense - yes. Nutrient-dense? not really.
There is double the amount of protein in 100 calories of broccoli than 100 calories of red meat. But with the broccoli, you don't get clogged arteries and you get a load of calcium and other nutrients on top of it. It is virtually impossible to develop heart disease on a plant-based diet.


Yikes! Where do you get your facts? Some militant vegan website? It is very possible to develop heart disease on a plant-based diet. Your statement ignores other risk factors like family history, high blood pressure and smoking - far more important factors than diet. The more accurate claim would be to say a plant-based diet helps mitigate the risk of heart disease, but prevent it? Hardly.


Oh my god! scary!! I know!

Where did you get YOUR facts about heart disease?
Vegetarians who eat loads of refined carbs and cheese, yes... they can develop heart disease. Vegans who eat plenty of vegetables would have a hard time. The fat in your arteries comes from the fat in your food. It's that simple. I got a lot of information from Dr. Fuhrman's well-researched book called "Eat to Live". So, if you are interested, you can pick up the book or do some research yourself.... or, you can ask Bill Clinton how he saved his life by going vegan.

I am finished now with this debate. Not because I think I will lose, but because I have other stuff to do, including thinking about the healthy veg recipes I will be making this weekend.

Have at it.

Posted on: 2012/8/31 13:48
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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Have you also noticed the majority of vegetarians/vegans look like the most unhealthy people? Thin, gaunt, and bluish skin tone. See those teeth on the sides of your mouth? They are incisors, made for grinding meat. Ever see a vegan lion, tiger, great white shark?

Posted on: 2012/8/31 13:27
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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For better or worse, food is about a lot more than nutrition and always has been. Without getting into any historical analysis, I think we can say that eating hamburgers and hotdogs is a lot more pleasurable a dining experience, especially to kids, than some of the other suggestions here. You get to put whatever it is--meat or not-- on a bun, assemble the vegetables and other condiments the way you like, and express your love or hatred of pickles, ketchup, mustard, relish, piccalilly---etc.

Posted on: 2012/8/31 12:49
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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kitten wrote:
Meat is calorie dense - yes. Nutrient-dense? not really.
There is double the amount of protein in 100 calories of broccoli than 100 calories of red meat. But with the broccoli, you don't get clogged arteries and you get a load of calcium and other nutrients on top of it. It is virtually impossible to develop heart disease on a plant-based diet.


Yikes! Where do you get your facts? Some militant vegan website? It is very possible to develop heart disease on a plant-based diet. Your statement ignores other risk factors like family history, high blood pressure and smoking - far more important factors than diet. The more accurate claim would be to say a plant-based diet helps mitigate the risk of heart disease, but prevent it? Hardly.

Posted on: 2012/8/31 12:44
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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kitten wrote:
Meat is calorie dense - yes. Nutrient-dense? not really.
There is double the amount of protein in 100 calories of broccoli than 100 calories of red meat. But with the broccoli, you don't get clogged arteries and you get a load of calcium and other nutrients on top of it. It is virtually impossible to develop heart disease on a plant-based diet.


http://www.howmuchprotein.com/foods/broccoli/

Not much knowledge of nutrition here, so your post was food for thought. Apparently, broccoli is not a one for one substitute for meat (as far as protein goes) and must be eaten with other plant-based foods that together provide the 9 essential proteins we don't manufacture ourselves.

As far as why vegan hot dogs and hamburgers look so much like meat - I suspect the shape is so that they will fit on buns and that the color is more appealing than what they would probably look like without it.

Posted on: 2012/8/31 12:21
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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Frank_M wrote:
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Mr_Johnson wrote:
Why would you want to eat something that attempts to look like a hot dog or hamburger?


Hotdogs & Hamburgers really don't look like meat either -- it is why kids love them.


I’m hope this isn’t the logic you meant to demonstrate:

Hot dogs don’t look like meat.
Therefore, children like hot dogs.


That obviously doesn’t work. Broccoli doesn’t look like meat either, but it isn’t exactly a chart-topper among kids. There must be at least one more step. Can you fill in the blank with an accurate statement that supports your argument? Keep in mind that most of the world’s children are not Caucasian Americans.

Hot dogs don’t look like meat.
Children _________________.
Therefore, children like hot dogs.


The macabre reality of factory farming is shameful, but it is irrelevant to our species’ innate ability to consume and digest animal flesh. In fact, we have evolutionary reasons to lust after such a calorie and nutrient-dense food. It’s only thanks to modern conveniences that we consume it at a rate unnaturally disproportionate to our need and capacity.

And Mr. Johnson, sausages and patties are simply two common styles of food preparation that already appeal to Western expectations. Vegetarianism is about making a conscious decision to make a positive difference both in ourselves and in the world. It’s a boycott. It’s not about being squeamish. It’s meat eaters who order their steaks well-done who are squeamish.

If there’s anything I love more than a dry-aged ribeye, it’s a good paradox.


It is virtually impossible to develop heart disease on a plant-based diet.


Or you can just eat red meat and wash it down with copious amounts of red wine.

Much more fun.

Posted on: 2012/8/31 12:06
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

GrovePath wrote:
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Mr_Johnson wrote:
Why would you want to eat something that attempts to look like a hot dog or hamburger?


Hotdogs & Hamburgers really don't look like meat either -- it is why kids love them.


I’m hope this isn’t the logic you meant to demonstrate:

Hot dogs don’t look like meat.
Therefore, children like hot dogs.


That obviously doesn’t work. Broccoli doesn’t look like meat either, but it isn’t exactly a chart-topper among kids. There must be at least one more step. Can you fill in the blank with an accurate statement that supports your argument? Keep in mind that most of the world’s children are not Caucasian Americans.

Hot dogs don’t look like meat.
Children _________________.
Therefore, children like hot dogs.


The macabre reality of factory farming is shameful, but it is irrelevant to our species’ innate ability to consume and digest animal flesh. In fact, we have evolutionary reasons to lust after such a calorie and nutrient-dense food. It’s only thanks to modern conveniences that we consume it at a rate unnaturally disproportionate to our need and capacity.

And Mr. Johnson, sausages and patties are simply two common styles of food preparation that already appeal to Western expectations. Vegetarianism is about making a conscious decision to make a positive difference both in ourselves and in the world. It’s a boycott. It’s not about being squeamish. It’s meat eaters who order their steaks well-done who are squeamish.

If there’s anything I love more than a dry-aged ribeye, it’s a good paradox.


Meat is calorie dense - yes. Nutrient-dense? not really.
There is double the amount of protein in 100 calories of broccoli than 100 calories of red meat. But with the broccoli, you don't get clogged arteries and you get a load of calcium and other nutrients on top of it. It is virtually impossible to develop heart disease on a plant-based diet.

Posted on: 2012/8/31 0:36
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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GrovePath wrote:
Quote:

Mr_Johnson wrote:
Why would you want to eat something that attempts to look like a hot dog or hamburger?


Hotdogs & Hamburgers really don't look like meat either -- it is why kids love them.


I’m hope this isn’t the logic you meant to demonstrate:

Hot dogs don’t look like meat.
Therefore, children like hot dogs.


That obviously doesn’t work. Broccoli doesn’t look like meat either, but it isn’t exactly a chart-topper among kids. There must be at least one more step. Can you fill in the blank with an accurate statement that supports your argument? Keep in mind that most of the world’s children are not Caucasian Americans.

Hot dogs don’t look like meat.
Children _________________.
Therefore, children like hot dogs.


The macabre reality of factory farming is shameful, but it is irrelevant to our species’ innate ability to consume and digest animal flesh. In fact, we have evolutionary reasons to lust after such a calorie and nutrient-dense food. It’s only thanks to modern conveniences that we consume it at a rate unnaturally disproportionate to our need and capacity.

And Mr. Johnson, sausages and patties are simply two common styles of food preparation that already appeal to Western expectations. Vegetarianism is about making a conscious decision to make a positive difference both in ourselves and in the world. It’s a boycott. It’s not about being squeamish. It’s meat eaters who order their steaks well-done who are squeamish.

If there’s anything I love more than a dry-aged ribeye, it’s a good paradox.

Posted on: 2012/8/30 19:44
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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Mr_Johnson wrote:
It always amazes me that the people that are grossed out by meat and all (vegans), always try to form their soy and veggies into things that closely resemble meat products. Why would you want to eat something that attempts to look like a hot dog or hamburger?


Hotdogs & Hamburgers really don't look like meat either -- it is why kids love them.

People don't love thinking about what is in their hamburgers and hotdogs --“The Jungle” was intended to dramatize working conditions, NOT food safety.

Upton Sinclair’s only wrote a mere 12 pages on food safety, but these pages got all the attention, leading Sinclair to later write, “I aimed at the public’s heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach.

Posted on: 2012/8/29 19:11
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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people eat products that LOOK like meat products, because the taste is pretty good, and they can eat a meal with the knowledge that no animals were harmed for their benefit.

my vegan friend made me "meatballs" that were just as good as what my mom made at home with the real thing. i was amazed.

if i was presented with the choice to eat the vegan meatballs, or mom's meatballs, i'd go with the vegan ones, simply because in my heart, i know that no animals suffered for them.

Posted on: 2012/8/29 16:49
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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It always amazes me that the people that are grossed out by meat and all (vegans), always try to form their soy and veggies into things that closely resemble meat products. Why would you want to eat something that attempts to look like a hot dog or hamburger?

Posted on: 2012/8/29 16:41
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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JoyOfSound wrote:


Two stars 'cause my friend likes the place. I'll probably never go back, unless they train their staff on how to respond to customers' innocent mistakes.

**for whatever it's worth, the turkey sandwich is still on their website. if you ever wanted to see a vegan pop a blood vessel, I suggest you go in person and order the turkey! It's likely still on the menu.


Looks like they just changed it on the website, to call it the "un-turkey salad sandwich". I'm confused though - they claim to be a vegan restaurant yet the vegan platters portion of the menu shows they have meatballs, pepper steak, chicken nuggets, buffalo strips, burgers and so on. I never knew of the place before but might venture over there for my own amusement.


All of those things you mention are vegan versions of those items.

Posted on: 2012/8/29 15:01
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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PathH8Tr... Let's really define "slow service"... Sandwiches take anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes. You can walk down the isles 20 times, memorized every ingredient in each bottle, plan your entire week, and you would still have time to spare

Posted on: 2012/8/29 0:35
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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Two stars 'cause my friend likes the place. I'll probably never go back, unless they train their staff on how to respond to customers' innocent mistakes.

**for whatever it's worth, the turkey sandwich is still on their website. if you ever wanted to see a vegan pop a blood vessel, I suggest you go in person and order the turkey! It's likely still on the menu.


Looks like they just changed it on the website, to call it the "un-turkey salad sandwich". I'm confused though - they claim to be a vegan restaurant yet the vegan platters portion of the menu shows they have meatballs, pepper steak, chicken nuggets, buffalo strips, burgers and so on. I never knew of the place before but might venture over there for my own amusement.

Posted on: 2012/8/29 0:12
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Re: A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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SLOWEST. SERVICE. EVER. Seriously. EVER. It's not a "slow food" philosophy, it's just customer service slow.

Posted on: 2012/8/28 23:40
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A non-vegan's experience at Subia's... (from yelp)
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This review is based on my recent experience at Subia's. It does NOT reflect on their food. Their food could be delicious, but I won't ever find out, due to the rude behavior of one of their sandwich chefs.

My VEGAN friend does not have many options when it comes to places that cater to her dietary choices, so Subia's is a great place for her to get food. I recently joined her as she picked up lunch to go. I'm not vegan, or a vegetarian, so I just walked around the grocery aisle while she ordered.

She calls me over to tell me there's something on the menu that even I would enjoy. Sure enough, there's a turkey sandwich on the menu. Instead of making another trip for me to pick up lunch elsewhere, I decide I'll have the turkey sandwich. I figure since this item is ON THE MENU, it won't be controversial to order such a sandwich in a vegan establishment.

Boy, was I wrong! When I was asked by the sandwich man what he could make for me, I replied that I'd like to try the turkey sandwich. Without even turning to address me again, all I heard was, "This is a vegan restaurant!" as he dramatically slammed his cloth napkin on the counter and stormed outside to take a needed breather at an outdoor table. Wow. What just happened? What did I do? Was he talking to me? Did I upset him? There was one other counterman there that turned to me. I was still confused, so I asked what just happened. I explained I wasn't trying to be funny, or a jerk, by asking for a turkey sandwich at a vegan establishment. After all, the turkey sandwich is RIGHT THERE on the menu.

The second counterman explained that the turkey sandwich is no longer available, and that their menus are outdated. Is that the customer's fault for not getting the memo? Could this same tidbit of information been shared to me by the original offended counterman, or was it justified for him to act like a giant man-baby? Wussy Wavy Gravy simply could have said, "Heyyyyyyy Maaaaaannnn, that turkey sandwich totally harshed my mellow, so it's no longer on the menu. Want to try something else?" But no, he acted like a childish vegan prima-donna, in effort to make the customer feel insensitive, stupid, and reflective. Well, I have reflected on this, and my opinion is that this is the kind of Soy Supporter that gives vegetarians a bad name. Your love of animals shouldn't cause you to treat your human customers like dumb neanderthals because they don't share your ideals. And if Captain Carrot took two seconds to reflect on his own behavior, he may actually consider that the turkey sandwich WAS on the menu, and the egg-substitute is all over his face.

There were many ways to handle this innocent ego assault that would have been better for their business. A simple explanation that the sandwich is no longer available, followed by a suggestion from the chef, would have been an obvious response.

As an aside, my vegan friend was also bothered by the counterman's behavior. She was explaining to the cashier what happened, and how vegetarianism is about compassion and personal choices. The cashier went on to explain how the turkey sandwich was no longer available due to poor sales, not for any vegan ideology (hmm, that's odd, since the chef was SO upset). She said I could try the tuna (another non-vegan item that may have caused the chef's head to explode), but by then, I had lost my appetite.

Two stars 'cause my friend likes the place. I'll probably never go back, unless they train their staff on how to respond to customers' innocent mistakes.

**for whatever it's worth, the turkey sandwich is still on their website. if you ever wanted to see a vegan pop a blood vessel, I suggest you go in person and order the turkey! It's likely still on the menu.

Posted on: 2012/8/28 22:19
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