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it's still a wall
it's still there being useless

Just wondering if anybody has any news on the embankment these days?

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The Catholic University of America graduate students will show their plans for the embankment next Friday (1/18/13?) in Manhattan. University professor Eric J. Jenkins said the students took on the project as an exercise to determine what cities can do with aging infrastructure.


Did anyone find information on their (the young punks) big plans for our Embankment? I have not found anything.

I want to see if they ripped off my two genius idea’s below in posts #589 and #595. (looking for a good lawyer if they did , although I would be willing to negotiate a fair price with you DT-er’s for use of my idea’s. I like you guy’s)

Architectural students have plans for historic Jersey City embankment

By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal
January 07, 2013 at 3:44 PM

Jersey City has high hopes for the Sixth Street Embankment property, which officials hope to turn into a park reminiscent of Manhattan’s High Line, but until then some architectural design students in the nation’s capital have a few ideas of their own.

The Catholic University of America graduate students will show their plans for the embankment next Friday in Manhattan. University professor Eric J. Jenkins said the students took on the project as an exercise to determine what cities can do with aging infrastructure.

“What do you do with these things?” Jenkins said, posing a question he said the students hope to answer. “How do you preserve it? How do you make it part of Jersey City’s life as opposed to leaving it like it is?”

The students, who visited Jersey City twice while they worked on the project, will unveil a 32-foot model of their plans for the embankment and the properties that lie just east and west of the disputed property.

The half-mile stone structure that formerly carried seven rail lines has been at the center of an eight-year legal dispute between the city, which wants to use some of the 6.5-acre parcel for open space, and developers Steve and Victoria Hyman, who purchased the lot from Conrail in 2003 for $3 million and seek to develop it.

The city, which contends it should have been given first chance to take the property before Conrail sold it to the Hymans, announced last February that it was close to a settlement with all parties that would have allowed the city to take possession of the property. That deal has since fallen through, and the litigation continues.

Jenkins said it is unlikely Jersey City will be able to recreate the High Line – the abandoned rail line in Lower Manhattan that was transformed into a popular public park – on this side of the Hudson River.

“The High Line requires a lot more behind it, if you will, to make it work,” he said, adding that Jersey City’s property is too small for that kind of transformation.

The Catholic University of America students will present their embankment plans on Friday, Jan. 18 from 4 to 8 p.m. at the New York American Institute of Architects Center for Architecture, 536 Laguardia Pl.

The presentation will be held in New York instead of Jersey City because it’s “neutral” territory, according to Jenkins.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... have_pl.html#incart_river

I think it's time for some maintenance on the Embankment.

A few minutes ago I was standing on the sidewalk waiting to cross 6th St at Erie. I heard a loud CRACK above me and I immediately bolted into the street (thankfully the cars on Erie were stopped at the light.) When I looked back, a dead tree had fallen from the Embankment right where I was standing. A number of branches several inches thick littered the sidewalk. Had I not moved immediately, I would have likely been seriously injured. What if it had been a parent with a baby stroller or an elderly neighbor standing there?

The aftermath:

Embankment Deal Stalls

The Wall Street Journal
NY REAL ESTATE RESIDENTIAL
September 11, 2012, 10:36 p.m. ET

By HEATHER HADDON

A deal to turn an abandoned elevated railway in Jersey City into a park in the spirit of Manhattan's High Line has hit a roadblock, with one of the parties involved balking on a settlement proposed to resolve the decadelong dispute.

The hurdle comes after Jersey City announced in February that it was on the verge of a deal that would pave the way for the Sixth Street Embankment to becoming a downtown park with sweeping views.

Now, in an additional wrinkle, court papers filed Thursday in a case associated with the embankment argue that other Jersey City land situated on old railways could have clouded titles, meaning it will be hard to sell or develop the properties in the future.

The former Pennsylvania Railroad tracks spanning Exchange Place are lined with office buildings, high-end condos, the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail and parking lots eyed for future development.

The argument is preliminary, and the city and preservation groups looking to save the embankment view it as a delay tactic by the Manhattan investor who acquired the disputed property from Consolidated Rail Corp.

But the investor, real-estate developer Steve Hyman, isn't backing down from the point, and retained a surveyor and architect to buttress his point in papers filed in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C.

"Property owners whose title may be questioned face serious ownership issues, including limitations upon the ability to transfer, lease, or mortgage their properties," wrote Daniel Horgan, an attorney at Waters, McPherson, McNeill in Secaucus representing Mr. Hyman, in the 30-page brief viewed by The Wall Street Journal.

The embankment—an overgrown stone structure spanning a half mile in downtown Jersey City—has been the source of a preservation battle for years between the city and community groups on one hand, and Mr. Hyman and Conrail on the other. Mr. Hyman purchased the structure in 2003 for $3 million from Conrail, planning to knock it down and build housing in the rapidly gentrifying area blocks from the Grove Street PATH station.

The city sued Conrail to invalidate the sale, and Mr. Hyman responded with about 10 suits against Jersey City and Conrail. Jersey City has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees fighting to turn the embankment into landscaped park that could eventually connect with a greenway spanning the East Coast.

In February, the city approved a settlement that would pay Mr. Hyman $7 million to relinquish the property. Conrail, now jointly owned by Norfolk Southern Corp. and CSX Corp., was to kick in $13 million to settle all the pending litigation around the sale. Conrail would also gain development rights from the city to build hundreds of lucrative housing units along the embankment.

Mr. Hyman and Jersey City officials signed the deal, but Conrail declined to accept it within a 30-day window period. The railroad has since offered at least four agreements, including one nearly three weeks ago, said Kevin Coakley, a partner at the Connell Foley law firm representing Conrail.

Mr. Horgan said the most recent offer tipped the deal too far in the railroad's direction, but declined to discuss specifics about the proposed settlement.

"We're not going to sign the agreement. Now we will continue in court," Mr. Horgan said.

Mr. Coakley said a deal has been hampered by a "lack of trust all around," but said the parties are close. "It's Conrail's hope to get this resolved," Mr. Coakley said.

William Matsikoudis, Jersey City's municipal attorney, said the "elements" of a deal are there and he hopes to soon hold a settlement conference before a state court judge to hammer it out. "Let's all just take a deep breath and regroup and figure out how to get this done," he said.

Discussions have continued between some of the parties this week. But while a deal hangs in the balance, Mr. Hyman is continuing to argue in district court for his right to retain the embankment. City and preservation groups sued Conrail in 2009 claiming that the railroad sold the property to Mr. Hyman without necessary federal transportation board approvals.

Mr. Hyman argued in the brief filed Thursday that if his purchase was invalid, then so is the redevelopment of miles of waterfront property that he alleges also didn't go before the U.S. Surface Transportation Board for approval.

"We think we are being unfairly treated," Mr. Horgan said. "If we have to have our property taken away from us, then all those condos and development lots downtown have to go through the same process."

The elevated embankment once carried the Pennsylvania's Harsimus Branch running from Harrison, N.J., to the Harsimus Cove Yard on the Hudson River. The branch also connected with the Hudson Street Industrial Track—a 1.3-mile line that ran in an arch southeast from Marin Boulevard to Greene and Hudson streets before traveling west on Essex Street.

The railway tracks were ripped up in the 1990s as the Jersey City waterfront began to develop into a financial and residential hub. The former railways now run under three high-end developments—the Portofino Condominium, Avalon Cove, the Marbella apartments—according to track maps submitted in Mr. Horgan's brief. They travel down city streets that now contain the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail and under shopping parking lots.

Representatives from the buildings didn't respond to request for comment Friday.

Charles Montange, a Seattle attorney representing the city and preservation groups in the district court case, said Mr. Horgan's argument was put forth simply to "wear out" the plaintiffs and had no merit.

Craig Ingber, a partner at the Belkin Burden Wenig & Goldman legal firm who specializes in real estate, said public utilities can cloud the title of an adjacent property, but that he thought the argument in the embankment case was more a legal tactic than one with widespread ramifications.

"It sounds like everyone is trying to use what they can of leverage to force a solution," Mr. Ingber said.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000 ... 6.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Hopefully they'll remain exactly as they are. A symbol of our past, of when things were built to last, a home for wild animals and birds. F the developers and those who would prefer to knock them down. You wanna live there? Grab a tent, scale the walls and enjoy a night under the stars amongst the last wilds of Jersey City. The embankments are beautiful exactly as they are today.

Quote:The High Line gets millions of visitors a year, I think 3 million at this point. If the Enbankment could get even a fraction of that, it would bring some nice business to the area.

Also, the High Line was developed completely by private funds

I believe it is across the street from the little league field.

Does anyone know where Hyman is most likely going to develop his two towers on 6th Street? Looks like it's proposed for 6th between Marin and Manilla?


"...a settlement authorized by the City Council in February may finally move the process forward — if Conrail and Hyman sign on. Under the terms of the settlement, Hyman would get $20 million, Conrail would get development rights on one block of the Embankment, and the city would pay $7 million for the remaining five blocks to build a park and mass transit corridor. The Council voted unanimously to authorize the settlement in February.”

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For $27 mil it better be tasty.

This has to be one of the biggest scams in JC history.

Perpetrated on JC taxpayers by the the Embankment Coalition and Healy.

Who is going to pay Hyman the $20mm?

By what measures is the High Line in NYC a success?

It should not be ignored that the High Line is surrounded by many brand new high rises. A few of which remain substantially vacant.

Best quote ever from that article that was just posted.

“You know, we’re always concerned about the bottom line here in Jersey City and you can’t hit the tax payers over the head all the time, so that was a concern,” Healy stressed.

Oh really? Bought my place in 2007 and got the double whammy.... real estate market collapsed, leaving me underwater, and Jersey City Real Estate Property Taxes going up dramatically just about every year, further depressing values.

Ughhh. Major FAIL. Concerned my ass.

FG

I would only support this if its done the same way it was done in NYC with private investors. Not a dime of tax payers money should be used for this. If we going to spend any money on JC it should be done in areas that really need it. If the residents of downtown want this so bad, they all should chip in and make it happen.

Using the High Line as a Model, Jersey City Bets on the Embankment

Friday, June 08, 2012
By Sharyn Jackson - New Jersey Public Radio




At the intersection of Jersey Avenue and 6th Street, in downtown Jersey City, stands an imposing structure of stone and granite that towers over a Brownstone-lined street. Ivy cascades down the sides, while 20- and 30-foot-tall trees grow on top. Huge reddish brown boulders pile up for two stories, with tiny fern-like plants breaking out of the crevices. It’s Stephen Gucciardo’s favorite section of the Embankment, a six-block, half mile-long spur of the Pennsylvania Railroad.


“Without any of us having touched the Embankment, it’s already a park,” Gucciardo said.

He is the president of the Embankment Preservation Coalition, a group that has fought to preserve the rail spur that slices through the historic Harsimus Cove neighborhood. The tracks haven’t been used since the early 1990s.

“The stones are beautiful, the color is delicious. They beautifully fit together, and the top is perfectly level,” Gucciardo said. “You’re looking at master craftsmanship here that was hard to come by and expensive at the turn of the century when this was built.”

Jersey City residents and government officials are closer than ever to concluding a 13-year battle to acquire the Embankment and turn it into an open space at the center of this urban neighborhood. The process has been saddled by a series of lawsuits involving the city, private developer Steve Hyman and railroad company Conrail, over who has the right to own the property. The issue hinges on arcane federal railroad law over whether Conrail’s sale of the property to Hyman in 2003 for $3 million was legal. So far, the city has spent $500,000 in legal fees, according to corporation counsel Bill Matsikoudis.

But a settlement authorized by the City Council in February may finally move the process forward — if Conrail and Hyman sign on. Under the terms of the settlement, Hyman would get $20 million, Conrail would get development rights on one block of the Embankment, and the city would pay $7 million for the remaining five blocks to build a park and mass transit corridor. The Council voted unanimously to authorize the settlement in February.

The city wasn’t always so supportive of the project. The price tag for the acquisition, legal fees, clean up, planning and building could cost upwards of $50 million dollars, Mayor Jerramiah Healy explained. He admits it took some convincing to get him on board, but was ultimately won over by the possibility of extending the New Jersey Transit Light Rail along the Embankment, from the Hudson River waterfront all the way to Secaucus.

“You know, we’re always concerned about the bottom line here in Jersey City and you can’t hit the tax payers over the head all the time, so that was a concern,” Healy stressed.

But the success of the High Line across the Hudson has also shown officials what could be possible in Jersey City.

“I would say we get a call almost every week from somebody doing a similar kind of project,” said Robert Hammond, the co-founder and executive director of Friends of the High Line. “They’re not all elevated rail lines, but they’re just community-initiated projects of reclaiming industrial space and trying use them in different ways.”

Hammond serves on the advisory council for the Embankment, and one piece of advice he passed on is remembering that the High Line wasn’t always what it is today.

“In the beginning almost all the main groups were opposed to it,” Hammond recalled. “To some people they just thought it was a relic and wasn’t attractive, and would look better torn down. To others, there was a lot of people that [said], ‘Oh it’s a great idea but it’s never going to happen.’”

Now the High Line is one of New York City’s most popular attractions, drawing more than 7 million visitors since the first section opened in 2009. That was the same year, Hammond toured Jersey City’s Embankment, and was impressed by what he saw.

Hammond thinks the “Embankment has a whole other feel to it” than the High Line.

“It feels more natural in some ways because of these stone walls. And then what’s growing up there is so much more robust and stronger than anything that was ever growing up on the High Line. In the Embankment, you really feel like you have a forest in the middle of Jersey City,” he explained.

Jersey City Councilman Steven Fulop, whose district encompasses the Embankment, is optimistic that the project will follow in the High Line’s footsteps. “We think we have an opportunity here to create something at least as powerful, if not better,” Fulop said.

If all three parties agree on the legal settlement, the city could acquire the land in as few as six months. But if the other litigants don’t agree to the terms, another court battle could set the project back five or six more years. With the neighborhood around New York’s High Line booming, city officials are more motivated than ever to see the project through to the finish.

And that excites residents in the neighborhood. Dolores Rennar has lived on 6th Street facing the Embankment for all of her 68 years, and fondly remembers the railroad where her grandfather worked.

“I loved it,” Rennar said. “The kids used to write their names on the wall, and climb it to get coal.”

“I don’t care what they turn it into,” Rennar added, referring to the plans for the Embankment, “as long as they don’t take it down.”

http://www.wnyc.org/articles/new-jers ... s/2012/jun/08/embankment/

Does anyone know if this will still leave a right of way for future light rail?

I think this is great news. The block on Marin is desolate and in need of development. This is a good compromise to keep the rest of the Embankment as open space or a park.

Congratulations to Steve Hyman, The Embankment Coalition and the City for finally taking a step forward. By working together, I'm sure you can develop something good for the city and the pocketbook.

This has to do with laws about rail infrastructure that has been abandoned or is in disuse. I don't know all the specifics but there are provisions that give the municipalities in which these assets exist the first right of refusal when the owner (Conrail in this case) decides to sell them.

It does not apply to all privately owned properties and really has nothing to do with you telling your neighbor how to decorate his house, which anyway would be a time-honored tradition.

PS - if you live in the historic district you actually are telling your neighbor how to decorate his house - the ourside anyway.

Shrewd move. Bravo! He's not going to develop it, he will flip it with approvals for $30 million plus, not bad for an original investment of $3 million. He recovered his original cost and legal fees on the cash offer the City made. Give him credit, it's a very smart move.

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WHY? This is what I don't understand. While I would love to see a highline, park, or whatever, I just don't get how the city can sue someone that bought this legally. Does the city get first chance to buy everything? If so, that really isn't fair. This is the equivalent of me telling my neighbors how to decorate their house, even though I don't own their house. I just feel I should be able to.

Why can't we have nice buildings that take up a city block instead of ugly high rises that have a fenced in lot next to it for years to come.

35 stories on Sixth and Grove/Manila? Now that is INSANE. Grove Point is only 29 stories and has a much larger base stepping down to 6 stories.

Fail.

This doesn't sound all that bad to me.

Normally I would agree, but in this case it seems like this concession to the developer is what it will take to get the settlement approved. Without agreement on the settlement, we have nothing.

Plus we really, really need some new condo buildings down there. What else are we going to do with our excess street/sewer/police/fire infrastructure.

hmmmm the smell of greed. Put a sign up at city hall that says Jersey City for sale.

Jersey City proposes changes that would permit two towers on historic Sixth Street Embankment

Wednesday, March 28, 2012, 7:36 PM
By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal

The Jersey City City Council gave initial approval tonight to changes to a Downtown redevelopment plan that would allow a developer to build two towers on a portion of the historic Sixth Street Embankment.

The changes are required by a tentative settlement the city reached last month with developer Steve Hyman, who has battled the city for years over ownership rights to the embankment. As part of the agreement, the city would purchase most of the roughly mile-long parcel for $7 million, while Hyman would retain one block.

Hyman, who purchased the embankment from Conrail in 2003 for $3 million, wanted to develop the entire property. The city, which hopes to use its six-block portion of the embankment to create a Highline-style park, sued, saying it should have been given first crack at purchasing the property.

The changes given tentative approval by the council, which only go into effect if the settlement is approved by all parties, would permit construction of the two towers, one 35 stories and the other 45 stories. They could contain a maximum of 400 residential units and 200 hotel rooms.

The city Planning Board would not be required to approve any plans to build the two towers. The changes approved tonight would merely amend the Luis Munoz Marin Redevelopment Plan, making construction of the towers possible.

The two towers would sit on a parking base, the roof of which would be level with the adjacent embankment block. The parking base would have at least one restaurant, which could be accessed from the city-owned portion of the embankment via a “decorate and well-appointed” walkway.

The measure passed 7-0, with council members Steve Fulop and Michele Massey absent.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... y_proposes_changes_t.html

Apologies if this has been covered before...

Is there a relatively convenient way to get up onto any sections of the Embankment now as it stands? There were some wonderful photos posted by stc4blues and I'd like to climb up there myself sometime to take a peek.

Hopefully without breaking too many laws (or my neck.)

Ok I can see your point of view (no pun intended). I wouldn’t want hundred’s of tourists looking into my windows everyday either. The one to ten locals who will use the NY..err I mean JC Highline Park everyday would indeed be a more controllable number. (less chance of a real creep being in a smaller group) I like how the embankments artist rendering depicts the 9 people using the JC Highline. ( http://www.embankment.org/render1bweb.jpg )

I guess I will shelve the “World Embankment at Jersey City” plan. It will sit with other great JC idea’s including Former Mayor Bret Schundler’s idea of a Water Park within LSP. (yes you read it right!)

For those newcomers who want a background on the Water Park in LSP or the NYC Chelsea Piers style recreation area over at the JC car pound lot check this old link out (in the history section of it)….

http://stopbretschundler.com/LSP.htm

(it also has some other pieces on projects including the 6th st embankment at the bottom of the page)


I will still keep my idea of 6 separate community artsy / recreational area’s on the table though (post #589 above).

I own property that is eye level with the embankment and as such have a vested and aesthetic interest in the development and maintenance that eventually happens there. While I can appreciate thinking out of the box and attempting to do something different than the NY highline, I have to say that this "World Idea" is potentially horrendous. It's like, let's make disneyland fit into 6 blocks! No thank you, I think I just vomited in my mouth a bit.
PLEASE, PLEASE Just make one continuous design that incorporates a modern aesthetic with a respect of heritage and nature. This sounds a lot like the high line but you really have to give it up to those designers they did a great job, let's not screw this up just in the name of being different.

Oh and F#$^ Tourism...not gonna happen sorry.



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