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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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I own property that is eye level with the embankment and as such have a vested and aesthetic interest in the development and maintenance that eventually happens there. While I can appreciate thinking out of the box and attempting to do something different than the NY highline, I have to say that this "World Idea" is potentially horrendous. It's like, let's make disneyland fit into 6 blocks! No thank you, I think I just vomited in my mouth a bit.
PLEASE, PLEASE Just make one continuous design that incorporates a modern aesthetic with a respect of heritage and nature. This sounds a lot like the high line but you really have to give it up to those designers they did a great job, let's not screw this up just in the name of being different.

Oh and F#$^ Tourism...not gonna happen sorry.



Quote:

neverleft wrote:
To continue with the above idea of NOT copying NYC. Let Jersey City have something unique to NYC, to America or maybe the World…

I can see it now The Jersey City …err I mean The World Embankment at Jersey City.

Jersey City is the one of the most diverse cities in the world. Not only now but also back in the day just think of all of the emigrants for all over the world passing through Jersey City from Ellis Island to the LSP rail road terminal. Some even stayed…even though our streets we not lined with gold. Ha, ha.

Let’s get the world involved in the design and restoration of the The World Embankment at Jersey City.

Here some more idea’s…

OK there are 6 separate embankments. Six perfect squares with beautiful stone walls. (an fyi to the people who think the hanging ivy is cool. Yes it is but it is a killer of brick and other masonry. It locks moisture in.)

There are 6 world continents. (or 7 or 5 or 4 however you want to look at it). For this project we will shoot for the 6. (unless you want to go with 5 and keep one of the embankments just for JC)

1-Africa
2- The America’s (North America and South America)
3- Australia/Oceania
4-Antartica
5-Eurasia (Europe and Asia)
6-(a vote can be done to decide to break up either number 2 or number 5)

Put out a huge media campaign saying that Jersey City is looking for its (and America’s) roots. JC is holding a world wide design contest to design six enclosed squares on JC’s embankment with a theme from each of the 6 continents. Set up a committee to pick one winner from each continent. The 6 winners will have their design actually constructed in the 6 embankments representing the world. (and to the good people (or wildlife) of Antartica plastic snow and ice won’t cut it!)

Sort of like The World’s Fair or better yet Disney’s World Showcase. And like Disney have the continents pay for the construction of their embankment. (or hold a penny collecting campaign , hey it worked for Lady Liberty’s base) We will maintain them but let them pay the construction costs. (and unlike Disney World we don’t need them sending over hot young natives to run the small concession stands in each of the embankments. Although if Sweden or Brazil would like to sent some beauties over ..my door is always open.)

Get it? Did it sink in yet? Make The World Embankment at Jersey City something the world has never seen before. If it catches on I am sure some tour (ferry/bus) company would set something up and add The World Embankment at Jersey City to it’s list of must see’s. Next stop…Statue of Liberty, then Ellis Island, last stop The World Embankment at Jersey City. I likey! (throw in some discount coupons for Pole Position and we got it made.)

The World Embankment at Jersey City will become a major attraction bringing in big bucks. (maybe you will need to build that hotel on 6th hmmm)

One more thing ..remember up above I said you wouldn’t want people walking on a elevated park looking into some ones 3rd floor bathroom window? Well click on the below .jpg from the embankment thread. There are actually 3 Goldman Sacks guys on the bridge pointing and laughing at someone shaving their pits in the bathroom window. And look at that poor woman in yellow on the stairs carrying that new born up the two flights of stairs. I see her hubby running down the sidewalk with the stroller trying to make it to the ramp 6 blocks away. (good thing he is in shape)

http://www.embankment.org/render1bweb.jpg

www.embankment.org

Posted on: 2012/2/17 22:42
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The problem is, nothing I've seen from ECG passes the smell test. So using them as a factual basis strikes me as mildly retarded, to put it lightly. It's like using Breitbart or World News Daily as the argument for your facts. To borrow from another thread that got bumped recently, this seems to fall under the heading of lies, damn lies and statistics.

Please tell me how a neighborhood park is going to put a hotel in this area. I'd be dying to read the infinite leaps of faith it takes to go from point A to point U while skipping the rest of the alphabet along the way.

I'll give neverleft some creative points, but uh... yea

Posted on: 2012/2/12 17:14
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To continue with the above idea of NOT copying NYC. Let Jersey City have something unique to NYC, to America or maybe the World…

I can see it now The Jersey City …err I mean The World Embankment at Jersey City.

Jersey City is the one of the most diverse cities in the world. Not only now but also back in the day just think of all of the emigrants for all over the world passing through Jersey City from Ellis Island to the LSP rail road terminal. Some even stayed…even though our streets we not lined with gold. Ha, ha.

Let’s get the world involved in the design and restoration of the The World Embankment at Jersey City.

Here some more idea’s…

OK there are 6 separate embankments. Six perfect squares with beautiful stone walls. (an fyi to the people who think the hanging ivy is cool. Yes it is but it is a killer of brick and other masonry. It locks moisture in.)

There are 6 world continents. (or 7 or 5 or 4 however you want to look at it). For this project we will shoot for the 6. (unless you want to go with 5 and keep one of the embankments just for JC)

1-Africa
2- The America’s (North America and South America)
3- Australia/Oceania
4-Antartica
5-Eurasia (Europe and Asia)
6-(a vote can be done to decide to break up either number 2 or number 5)

Put out a huge media campaign saying that Jersey City is looking for its (and America’s) roots. JC is holding a world wide design contest to design six enclosed squares on JC’s embankment with a theme from each of the 6 continents. Set up a committee to pick one winner from each continent. The 6 winners will have their design actually constructed in the 6 embankments representing the world. (and to the good people (or wildlife) of Antartica plastic snow and ice won’t cut it!)

Sort of like The World’s Fair or better yet Disney’s World Showcase. And like Disney have the continents pay for the construction of their embankment. (or hold a penny collecting campaign , hey it worked for Lady Liberty’s base) We will maintain them but let them pay the construction costs. (and unlike Disney World we don’t need them sending over hot young natives to run the small concession stands in each of the embankments. Although if Sweden or Brazil would like to sent some beauties over ..my door is always open.)

Get it? Did it sink in yet? Make The World Embankment at Jersey City something the world has never seen before. If it catches on I am sure some tour (ferry/bus) company would set something up and add The World Embankment at Jersey City to it’s list of must see’s. Next stop…Statue of Liberty, then Ellis Island, last stop The World Embankment at Jersey City. I likey! (throw in some discount coupons for Pole Position and we got it made.)

The World Embankment at Jersey City will become a major attraction bringing in big bucks. (maybe you will need to build that hotel on 6th hmmm)

One more thing ..remember up above I said you wouldn’t want people walking on a elevated park looking into some ones 3rd floor bathroom window? Well click on the below .jpg from the embankment thread. There are actually 3 Goldman Sacks guys on the bridge pointing and laughing at someone shaving their pits in the bathroom window. And look at that poor woman in yellow on the stairs carrying that new born up the two flights of stairs. I see her hubby running down the sidewalk with the stroller trying to make it to the ramp 6 blocks away. (good thing he is in shape)

http://www.embankment.org/render1bweb.jpg

www.embankment.org

Posted on: 2012/2/12 13:18
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Quote:

corybraiterman wrote:
You brought up all of those points, not me. Unless you set up your own strawman, then that term isn't applicable. As someone with years in writing and editing, perhaps I can offer you some outside learning? Reasonable rates, of course.

Again, I highly, HIGHLY doubt that constructing a park in a residential neighborhood (a mostly fully developed one, I might add) adds a drop in the bucket into destination tourism. Were this along exchange place, I might feel differently, but given all the current factors: nope.


Nope, don't think you might. However, since I continue to write, worked as an editor for national newsletter and publish for over forty years, in addition to having worked as a vp, literary agent in the book industry, if you have something you think worthwhile you've written I suggest you get a copy of LMP.

In regards to your doubts( read the entire 2011 East Coast Greenway Alliance survey I posted ), come back with specifics of refutation and I'll respond in kind. You've done no work here in your postings but just opine.

As that great posthumous Senator from New York, Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts."

Posted on: 2012/2/12 11:31
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You brought up all of those points, not me. Unless you set up your own strawman, then that term isn't applicable. As someone with years in writing and editing, perhaps I can offer you some outside learning? Reasonable rates, of course.

Again, I highly, HIGHLY doubt that constructing a park in a residential neighborhood (a mostly fully developed one, I might add) adds a drop in the bucket into destination tourism. Were this along exchange place, I might feel differently, but given all the current factors: nope.

Posted on: 2012/2/12 11:09
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I've found that on JCList one must address each "straw man" argument directly lest they become part of the same hubristic myth perpetuated by disingenuous people.

So too wit see my BOLD and BLUE reply below:

Quote:

corybraiterman wrote:

Bright, you're seriously going to tell me that someone's going to put up a hotel on Division and 6th next to Legal Beans and Healey's new bar because there's a new park nearby?

NO. "Destination tourism", which JC lacks, generates $$$'s city-wide. Hotels cater to market segments not currently being provided. Hotels that cater to this segment will be built where there is under utilized property which could be anywhere that PATH, Light Rail or Buses connect to downtown near the Embankment. JC will benefit in jobs and tax revenue generated just as with HIGH Line though not as much due to different economics at NYC/High Line.

Next time I'm teaching my marketing courses at Fordham you are welcome to sign up either enrolled or audit if permitted. Economic Impact Analysis and Market segmentation drives all marketing.


Are they going to rezone 6th street for business? You're bringing up Whole Foods and Trader Joe's... on this?

Again "straw man" arguments. Retailers of all size are brought principally by the result of Economic Impact Analysis driven by MSA data for each segmentation.

Example-I knew that B&N's use of MSA data and Economic Impact Analysis would never open a store in JC( having ran NYC and Boston for them in early '90 as Regional Director). The reason? simply because the "buying segment" of book customers is less than 4% in US for books. This is why apart from B&N's real estate locations they primarily acquired 1,000 locations from B. Dalton, the significant sales "profit" are not books as all bookstores in US selling new books have a rising floor on costs and a fixed ceiling on profitability. It's real estate is principle value.

So retailers will come due to the Economic Impact Analysis of the Embankment's contribution to the entire city, the county, the MSA region and finally the US as destination tourism

Those $$$s will help bring jobs and tax revenue we need and you can all thank the Embankment Preservation Coalitions work with different administrations from Schundler who wanted to tear it down to a city council and Mayor Healy came on board realizing what I'm saying here.

Yes there are some who lack the ability to see what visionaries like the founder of the EPC , their board and members throughout JC see. If you felt different why did you never organize folks who felt as you?



Dude. Really.

Really?

Wow.

WOW.


"Dude. Really."

Any more schooling and I'll have to bill you Cory.

Posted on: 2012/2/12 9:26
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While I am pro-preservation and love the idea of a Highline in Jersey City, I have some trepidation about the actual hard costs and ongoing O&M. The NY Highline is amazing IMHO but not sure that can replicated here given the surrounding environment of West Chelsea, the meatpacking district, etc. and nor does it have to be. We are not NYC but Jersey City and not inferior. Neverleft makes an interesting point about thinking outside the box and that's a novel approach of individual themed parks for recreational pursuits. I would add one to his/her list of one of the spaces to show films on a large scrim with concession stands serving popsicles and whatnot from local purveyors. Also, one park could be an English Garden or landscaped.

I definitely don't think those structures should be demolished, the walls and ivy on them are beautiful and peaceful.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/opinion/15Rybczynski.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/15/art ... hline.html?pagewanted=all

Quote:

neverleft wrote:
For once in your newcomer lives why don’t you start thinking on your own and STOP looking to NYC for shi*. You are all freaking copy cats. They have a Whole Foods, you want a Whole Foods. They have an Elevated Park, you want an elevated park. They have a Barcade, you want (and got) a Barcade. What next a floating swimming barge in the Hudson off LSP? How unoriginal of you.

Do you think I am going to pay the millions and millions of dollars to not only construct your elevated park but the millions to maintain it? And the millions to settle the law suits from the parents of kids (and drunken hipsters) who fall off of your elevated park? Connecting bridges over every street..you must be on drugs.

Think out of the box for once and let NYC look to us!

Here is a simple cool idea. I have not read the entire thread and don’t know if anyone else came up with this ingenious (and cheap) idea yet. (but from reading your posts from other threads I doubt it)

Why would we want another outdoor park in JC we have enough of them. Do something called WALKING or RIDING A BIKE over to JC’s many parks. The idea of a quiet out of the way park is NOT an elevated park. What peace would it bring? You are going to hear the city noise 10 fold being elevated. (sound rises like heat) Also do you really want to look across the street over into someone’s 3rd floor bathroom window while they shave their legs or pits? (ok creepy calm down) And how fast do you think you can climb down 2 flights of stairs to go after the punk you see breaking into your car 20 feet below? Those pictures someone posted are so breath taking but guess what you could have taken the pictures at street level and had the same effect. Duh.

Here do this….for under $500K ..no under $300K.

-put up a BIG sign that says FREE DIRT. (let’s just hope there’s no chromium in it .. maybe a NO RETURNS sign would also help)

-dig all of the dirt out of the embankments leaving the beautiful bare stone walls. Patch them if need be. At least you won’t need a multimillion dollar French drain system in the dirt to protect them.

-make multiple street level mini enclosed parks on each block (who the F wants to climb two flights of stairs to get to an elevated park..with a baby carriage) Cut entrances into the stone walls, put up cool local artist created gates. (with locks..heavy locks!)

-Throw a tennis court in one, a hand ball court (or are you yuppies into bocce ball now) in another. A Jungle Gym for the rug-rat crowd. No hoops though because as you know it always attracts a bad element. (a yuppie with a b-ball is bad news a very ugly sight, especially when they start trying to talk ghetto)

- leave a little dirt in each .. make mini elevated park areas with flowers and trees (I’m talking 3 feet dirt mounds not 20 feet) within the walls. (and NO freakin dog walks) Make one just an adult chill park for relaxing (and picking up chicks) ..maybe have one of those fancy Japanese gardens in it with those cool big orange and white fish. (yeah like they would last one night in JC)

-the possibilities are endless mini golf, small rentable party space(cover half of one with a glass roof) ,gazebos, music shells (can you image the acoustics for summer time concerts?) One more thing NO bathrooms let people shi* for themselves somewhere else or hold it in.

Get the gist of it yet? Enclosed mini parks within the city to SHUT OUT all of the city noise and ugly sights. (not you honey) Not an expensive elevated park that lifts you 20 feet above the city. The same dam city noise and ugly sights just 20 feet higher…no thanks!

Let’s get started. Print up some flier’s announcing a design contest. A fresh design with be picked for each blocks mini-enclosed park space.



(listen to this old-timer...I posted this just 5 minutes ago and look...a new yorker named maybeMoving is already thinking about moving here.)

Posted on: 2012/2/10 17:56
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I have to say, I think this is a really interesting idea. Maybe if the developer was smart he would've done that from the beginning and used the embankment walls as the outer structure of the condos. I bet nobody else in America would have a place like that.

But let's be fair, you really think something like this could be done for an amount like 300k? The removal of the insides would be a massive undertaking that would not only require getting some very heavy machinery on top of the embankment, but then you'd have get it all out before you could even begin to construct tennis courts, parks, etc. Good luck getting that done for under a couple million bucks.

I still hope they just leave it as is.

Quote:

neverleft wrote:
For once in your newcomer lives why don’t you start thinking on your own and STOP looking to NYC for shi*. You are all freaking copy cats. They have a Whole Foods, you want a Whole Foods. They have an Elevated Park, you want an elevated park. They have a Barcade, you want (and got) a Barcade. What next a floating swimming barge in the Hudson off LSP? How unoriginal of you.

Do you think I am going to pay the millions and millions of dollars to not only construct your elevated park but the millions to maintain it? And the millions to settle the law suits from the parents of kids (and drunken hipsters) who fall off of your elevated park? Connecting bridges over every street..you must be on drugs.

Think out of the box for once and let NYC look to us!

Here is a simple cool idea. I have not read the entire thread and don’t know if anyone else came up with this ingenious (and cheap) idea yet. (but from reading your posts from other threads I doubt it)

Why would we want another outdoor park in JC we have enough of them. Do something called WALKING or RIDING A BIKE over to JC’s many parks. The idea of a quiet out of the way park is NOT an elevated park. What peace would it bring? You are going to hear the city noise 10 fold being elevated. (sound rises like heat) Also do you really want to look across the street over into someone’s 3rd floor bathroom window while they shave their legs or pits? (ok creepy calm down) And how fast do you think you can climb down 2 flights of stairs to go after the punk you see breaking into your car 20 feet below? Those pictures someone posted are so breath taking but guess what you could have taken the pictures at street level and had the same effect. Duh.

Here do this….for under $500K ..no under $300K.

-put up a BIG sign that says FREE DIRT. (let’s just hope there’s no chromium in it .. maybe a NO RETURNS sign would also help)

-dig all of the dirt out of the embankments leaving the beautiful bare stone walls. Patch them if need be. At least you won’t need a multimillion dollar French drain system in the dirt to protect them.

-make multiple street level mini enclosed parks on each block (who the F wants to climb two flights of stairs to get to an elevated park..with a baby carriage) Cut entrances into the stone walls, put up cool local artist created gates. (with locks..heavy locks!)

-Throw a tennis court in one, a hand ball court (or are you yuppies into bocce ball now) in another. A Jungle Gym for the rug-rat crowd. No hoops though because as you know it always attracts a bad element. (a yuppie with a b-ball is bad news a very ugly sight, especially when they start trying to talk ghetto)

- leave a little dirt in each .. make mini elevated park areas with flowers and trees (I’m talking 3 feet dirt mounds not 20 feet) within the walls. (and NO freakin dog walks) Make one just an adult chill park for relaxing (and picking up chicks) ..maybe have one of those fancy Japanese gardens in it with those cool big orange and white fish. (yeah like they would last one night in JC)

-the possibilities are endless mini golf, small rentable party space(cover half of one with a glass roof) ,gazebos, music shells (can you image the acoustics for summer time concerts?) One more thing NO bathrooms let people shi* for themselves somewhere else or hold it in.

Get the gist of it yet? Enclosed mini parks within the city to SHUT OUT all of the city noise and ugly sights. (not you honey) Not an expensive elevated park that lifts you 20 feet above the city. The same dam city noise and ugly sights just 20 feet higher…no thanks!

Let’s get started. Print up some flier’s announcing a design contest. A fresh design with be picked for each blocks mini-enclosed park space.



(listen to this old-timer...I posted this just 5 minutes ago and look...a new yorker named maybeMoving is already thinking about moving here.)

Posted on: 2012/2/10 16:30
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For once in your newcomer lives why don’t you start thinking on your own and STOP looking to NYC for shi*. You are all freaking copy cats. They have a Whole Foods, you want a Whole Foods. They have an Elevated Park, you want an elevated park. They have a Barcade, you want (and got) a Barcade. What next a floating swimming barge in the Hudson off LSP? How unoriginal of you.

Do you think I am going to pay the millions and millions of dollars to not only construct your elevated park but the millions to maintain it? And the millions to settle the law suits from the parents of kids (and drunken hipsters) who fall off of your elevated park? Connecting bridges over every street..you must be on drugs.

Think out of the box for once and let NYC look to us!

Here is a simple cool idea. I have not read the entire thread and don’t know if anyone else came up with this ingenious (and cheap) idea yet. (but from reading your posts from other threads I doubt it)

Why would we want another outdoor park in JC we have enough of them. Do something called WALKING or RIDING A BIKE over to JC’s many parks. The idea of a quiet out of the way park is NOT an elevated park. What peace would it bring? You are going to hear the city noise 10 fold being elevated. (sound rises like heat) Also do you really want to look across the street over into someone’s 3rd floor bathroom window while they shave their legs or pits? (ok creepy calm down) And how fast do you think you can climb down 2 flights of stairs to go after the punk you see breaking into your car 20 feet below? Those pictures someone posted are so breath taking but guess what you could have taken the pictures at street level and had the same effect. Duh.

Here do this….for under $500K ..no under $300K.

-put up a BIG sign that says FREE DIRT. (let’s just hope there’s no chromium in it .. maybe a NO RETURNS sign would also help)

-dig all of the dirt out of the embankments leaving the beautiful bare stone walls. Patch them if need be. At least you won’t need a multimillion dollar French drain system in the dirt to protect them.

-make multiple street level mini enclosed parks on each block (who the F wants to climb two flights of stairs to get to an elevated park..with a baby carriage) Cut entrances into the stone walls, put up cool local artist created gates. (with locks..heavy locks!)

-Throw a tennis court in one, a hand ball court (or are you yuppies into bocce ball now) in another. A Jungle Gym for the rug-rat crowd. No hoops though because as you know it always attracts a bad element. (a yuppie with a b-ball is bad news a very ugly sight, especially when they start trying to talk ghetto)

- leave a little dirt in each .. make mini elevated park areas with flowers and trees (I’m talking 3 feet dirt mounds not 20 feet) within the walls. (and NO freakin dog walks) Make one just an adult chill park for relaxing (and picking up chicks) ..maybe have one of those fancy Japanese gardens in it with those cool big orange and white fish. (yeah like they would last one night in JC)

-the possibilities are endless mini golf, small rentable party space(cover half of one with a glass roof) ,gazebos, music shells (can you image the acoustics for summer time concerts?) One more thing NO bathrooms let people shi* for themselves somewhere else or hold it in.

Get the gist of it yet? Enclosed mini parks within the city to SHUT OUT all of the city noise and ugly sights. (not you honey) Not an expensive elevated park that lifts you 20 feet above the city. The same dam city noise and ugly sights just 20 feet higher…no thanks!

Let’s get started. Print up some flier’s announcing a design contest. A fresh design with be picked for each blocks mini-enclosed park space.



(listen to this old-timer...I posted this just 5 minutes ago and look...a new yorker named maybeMoving is already thinking about moving here.)

Posted on: 2012/2/10 15:40
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Bright, you're seriously going to tell me that someone's going to put up a hotel on Division and 6th next to Legal Beans and Healey's new bar because there's a new park nearby? Are they going to rezone 6th street for business? You're bringing up Whole Foods and Trader Joe's... on this?

Dude. Really.

Really?

Wow.

WOW.

Posted on: 2012/2/10 11:33
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As mentioned, being an elevated structure would add a lot of logistics to a park. Safety, vandalism, squatting etc... But not insurmountable issues. However, I think any opportunity to get more green space here, and in any urban community, should be taken advantage of.

Posted on: 2012/2/10 9:58
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I know both JPhurst and corybraiterman( Cory and I both served on PATH advisory panel as volunteers) and I'm also a member of the Embankment Preservation Coalition(EPC).

Just as corybraiterman has answered some of the posts here as to "what he wants on Embankment" many times (though I may disagree), so have I, as JPHurst, though many naysayers here are simply lazy to read other posts on this thread. I've posted why there are realistic economic reasons, beyond those of us who support an open space park, be built on the Embankment :



*Jobs
- Yes, as Spectra likes to claim, but these are long term service sector jobs, not temp such as:

- Hotels-staff, cleaning services;

- Retail - Galleries, box stores, grocery stores, specialized food stores(Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, small boutique stores (book store(s), children oriented stores, personal services- exercise, hair grooming, bike stores;

-Restaurants & Bars- bartenders, waitresses, managers, owners

-Embankment Conservancy -General Manager, wildscape oversite maintenance, urban planner(s), grant writers, event & fund raisers, security, general maintenance.

There was a major study commissioned in 2001 by the East Coast Greenway Alliance, a 3,000 mile hike and bike trail from Maine to Florida. at this link below (posted here by moi)that shows NOT the "possibility" of revenue generated along the East Coast Greenway Alliance generated by tourism, but what existed in 2001. Even with our 2008 economic collase, you're talking about sizable revenue.

JC has better costs to expense ratio for each tourist $ then does NYC and as such with the infrastructure built to support the Embankment open space park realized, Jersey City would finally have a local, regional, national "destination site" in the shadow of NYC other than the Liberty State Museum, to generate tax-paying revenue to both support the annual maintenance of the park AND generate additional revenue for JC.

In addition, if any of you naysayers, online punditry, had been at last nite's unanimous council vote in support of the EPC settlement, as were JPHurst, myself and a roomful of supporters who stayed for hours till the council vote, you would have heard JC counsel. Bill Matsikoudis, clearly explain the following. (Public info) That while settlement negotiations are still under discussion, they include the *possibility* of Con Rail or other developer getting inducements for building the bridge over-span and providing maintenance subsidies for the Embankment in exchange for any development. of Con Rail properties that "might be" acquired for development or zoning variances for Con Rail sale

Win, Win for all parties.

So unless you are for higher taxes, lack of job growth in JC only then would you be against preservation for an open space Embankment.

Re: The Embankment could have been JC's High Line #423 ( East Coast Alliance Study)


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JPhurst wrote:
Quote:

ExUWSguy wrote:


I am all for the Embankment, but we can't discount corybraiterman and stillinjc's concerns.


And we haven't! The discussion over funding, maintenance, upkeep, etc is something that advocates for preservation have been discussing for years. And it still is being discussed. Questions of feasibility, expense are constantly on the table for discussion.

Of all the groups I've seen advocating for open space and/or preservation, the EPC along with the Reservoir Alliance are probably the most thorough in addressing these issues. These groups actually raised funds, obtained earmarks and pledges, drew up plans, hired engineers, conducted studies, etc.

The problem is not that a minority on this board are raising "concerns." The problem is that they are making ill informed personal attacks on other people. When they do raise an issue of substance, it is something that, had they done their homework, they would have realized it had been largely addressed.

By all means, people should attend the meetings, council hearings and the like. I will simply note that at last night's council meeting, or for that matter any other council meetings where the subject was addressed, no one who thought this was a "waste of money" bothered to show.

Posted on: 2012/2/9 20:10
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stillinjc wrote:


I take Cory seriously. Because he's absolutely right.



Anonymous cowards on jclist don't count.


Haha, Mr Parkhurst has a new rule - you have to reveal your real name on jclist in order to "count", in his estimation.

Otherwise you are a coward.

C'mon, all jclisters, reveal your real names, or you don't count, and are cowards.

Oh, wait, that rule only applies when you disagree with Mr Parkhurst.

Never mind...


Posted on: 2012/2/9 19:20
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ExUWSguy wrote:


I am all for the Embankment, but we can't discount corybraiterman and stillinjc's concerns.


And we haven't! The discussion over funding, maintenance, upkeep, etc is something that advocates for preservation have been discussing for years. And it still is being discussed. Questions of feasibility, expense are constantly on the table for discussion.

Of all the groups I've seen advocating for open space and/or preservation, the EPC along with the Reservoir Alliance are probably the most thorough in addressing these issues. These groups actually raised funds, obtained earmarks and pledges, drew up plans, hired engineers, conducted studies, etc.

The problem is not that a minority on this board are raising "concerns." The problem is that they are making ill informed personal attacks on other people. When they do raise an issue of substance, it is something that, had they done their homework, they would have realized it had been largely addressed.

By all means, people should attend the meetings, council hearings and the like. I will simply note that at last night's council meeting, or for that matter any other council meetings where the subject was addressed, no one who thought this was a "waste of money" bothered to show.

Posted on: 2012/2/9 15:33
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and by anonymous, you mean someone using their real name?


I wasn't referring to you.

Or are you saying that "stillinjc" is a real name?

Or is he your sockpuppet?

Posted on: 2012/2/9 15:08
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kencares wrote:
Cory's not anonymous... He outed himself as the guy that used to work at a record store at the mall on 440:

I imagine him to be like Jack Black in high fidelity:


Sadly, that was our last day of business. All gone now. And I truly wish at times I could have been more like that character.

{Customer} Do you have (insert terrible musician here)?
{Me} Do we look like we carry that sh@*? Go to the f&^%ing mall

Sadly, we did carry that crap, and we were in the mall.

Quote:
okay, so humor us: what DO you want there?

As I've said earlier in the thread, I'd support low-rise housing; the kind that would fit in with the neighborhood as opposed to dominating the area (and it would have to include parking imo, I don't own a car, but for those that do, having scores more people parking in already limited space would be an issue). I'd almost be OK if the embankment were leveled and a regular park were put in it's place - the upkeep for a regular park is a fraction of what it takes to maintain multiple bridges, service ramps, fencing, etc.

Posted on: 2012/2/9 14:38
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matty wrote:
corybraiterman and stillinjc:

no one here thinks jersey city is capable of creating a $75 mm park whose maintenance runs in the multiple millions of dollars a year. what most of us here want is a value-add project with the potential to put our city on the map. right now, our "map" consists of lsp, lefrak, crooked politicians, a strong rental market, and, soon, a jersey shore spinoff.


Matty - thanks so much for this post! I think for all of us who have hopes for the JC Embankment, you sum it up - and point out how we, as concerned citizens need to engage the JC government more to do the right thing for the city in the long run! Are you involved with the Embankment Preservation project? I'm thinking of it, to bring another voice. Now, having said that...

Quote:

matty wrote:
corybraiterman and stillinjc:

...no one is denying the obstacles; to deny the potential, as you both seem intent on doing, however, is offensively stupid. you guys must really love condos.

i really admire the ambition of you both, lusting after firefighters, libraries and a quiet, bedroom-oriented jersey city where tax dollars aren't wasted...


I am all for the Embankment, but we can't discount corybraiterman and stillinjc's concerns. One thing that also bears repeating is that we have to be careful about comparing it to the Highline - think about how the Highline gets its funding http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/27/nyr ... ft-to-high-line-park.html I don't think even if everyone who support the Embankment donated generously, we would hold a candle to this. We have to frame the argument in realistic, local terms.

Posted on: 2012/2/9 13:41
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I hope you have heard of emminent domain

Posted on: 2012/2/9 13:33
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corybraiterman wrote:
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matty wrote:
you guys must really love condos.


I really don't know how many times I've written that I don't want a condo built there in this thread alone. I think this has to be pushing a dozen, perhaps twenty.


no park: check. no condos: check.
okay, so humor us: what DO you want there?

Posted on: 2012/2/9 13:16
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Cory's not anonymous... He outed himself as the guy that used to work at a record store at the mall on 440:
Resized Image (Far left)

I imagine him to be like Jack Black in high fidelity:
Resized Image

Posted on: 2012/2/9 12:54
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and by anonymous, you mean someone using their real name?

riiiiiiight. I wonder how many times I'll have to point THIS one out too, I think I'm up to half a dozen already.


As far as the big box being temporary, a) I'll believe it when I see it, seeing as how they're on long leases and show no signs of business being poor enough to make them move. and b) so we're going to have a public park end on private housing or is the developer selling that portion to the city as well?

Posted on: 2012/2/9 12:46
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stillinjc wrote:


I take Cory seriously. Because he's absolutely right.



Anonymous cowards on jclist don't count.

Posted on: 2012/2/9 12:05
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corybraiterman wrote:
http://www.embankment.org/whitesite/embank9again.jpg is clearly not taken from the embankment

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2224/2065034603_15bf95720e.jpg great shot of the Bed Bath & Beyond. That's fantastic. Real tourist attraction.

Many of those shots look like they could be taken from half the backyards in the area - position camera low near a bush. Sorry, some nice pictures of bushes aren't worth 7 million+. Find them for less. Or let the Embankment rot as is and keep them. I'd rather see that ugly wall stay up there instead of flushing all that money away to get new ones.

Even assuming you have the Embankment down past Marin, then what? It ends on the east side of the block instead of the west in the shopping lot of Pep Boys. Hooray?


The "big box" retail in that area is temporary. The City's Master Plan has that area designated for large scale waterfront development. Residential, commercial, etc. It is unquestionably a long term plan, but it is the plan.

Posted on: 2012/2/9 12:05
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matty wrote:
you guys must really love condos.


I really don't know how many times I've written that I don't want a condo built there in this thread alone. I think this has to be pushing a dozen, perhaps twenty.

Posted on: 2012/2/9 6:23
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jc council voted 9-0 to approve the resolution authorizing the settlement to acquire the Embankment.

Posted on: 2012/2/9 1:28
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matty wrote:
corybraiterman and stillinjc:

no one here thinks jersey city is capable of creating a $75 mm park whose maintenance runs in the multiple millions of dollars a year. what most of us here want is a value-add project with the potential to put our city on the map. right now, our "map" consists of lsp, lefrak, crooked politicians, a strong rental market, and, soon, a jersey shore spinoff.

the park will take 5-7 years to plan and then another 5-7 years to build. but with some (uncharacteristic) creativity, it's possible to accomplish something beneficial to the city and its residents. no one is denying the obstacles; to deny the potential, as you both seem intent on doing, however, is offensively stupid. you guys must really love condos.

and as for the $7 mm: jersey city's budget is nearly a 1/2 billion dollars. do you think that a one-time expense of $7 million for land that's clearly worth many more times that, whether it be parkland or condos, is a bad investment for the city? the city paid nearly that much (federal, not city money) to put a chain-link fence underneath the turnpike.

i really admire the ambition of you both, lusting after firefighters, libraries and a quiet, bedroom-oriented jersey city where tax dollars aren't wasted. perhaps by the time city hall figures out how to accomplish all that aww-shucks super bowl-commercial just-folks bullshit, maybe the embankment will be a park in some fashion.


marry me.

Posted on: 2012/2/9 1:17
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STCblues thanks for posting these lovely pictures. We'd love to post on our website embankment.org. If you'd allow us to do so, please email me at info@embankment.org. Anyone else who has photos of the embankment that you'd like to share, please email me. Thanks so much! Jenny

Posted on: 2012/2/9 1:17
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Thanks for posting!

Posted on: 2012/2/9 1:15
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corybraiterman and stillinjc:

no one here thinks jersey city is capable of creating a $75 mm park whose maintenance runs in the multiple millions of dollars a year. what most of us here want is a value-add project with the potential to put our city on the map. right now, our "map" consists of lsp, lefrak, crooked politicians, a strong rental market, and, soon, a jersey shore spinoff.

the park will take 5-7 years to plan and then another 5-7 years to build. but with some (uncharacteristic) creativity, it's possible to accomplish something beneficial to the city and its residents. no one is denying the obstacles; to deny the potential, as you both seem intent on doing, however, is offensively stupid. you guys must really love condos.

and as for the $7 mm: jersey city's budget is nearly a 1/2 billion dollars. do you think that a one-time expense of $7 million for land that's clearly worth many more times that, whether it be parkland or condos, is a bad investment for the city? the city paid nearly that much (federal, not city money) to put a chain-link fence underneath the turnpike.

i really admire the ambition of you both, lusting after firefighters, libraries and a quiet, bedroom-oriented jersey city where tax dollars aren't wasted. perhaps by the time city hall figures out how to accomplish all that aww-shucks super bowl-commercial just-folks bullshit, maybe the embankment will be a park in some fashion.

Posted on: 2012/2/9 0:34
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hero69 wrote:
I can't wait to have a chai latte on the Embankment. Maybe with Snooki and the Situation.


And I'll take the check.

Awesome.

Posted on: 2012/2/8 22:56
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