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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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Jersey City poo-poos councilman's hope for more Downtown parking

Monday, May 09, 2011, 7:42 PM
By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal

Jersey City officials tonight threw cold water on a councilman?s suggestion that the city take a portion of Police Headquarters on Erie Street and transform it into municipal parking.

The city hopes to sell the 8 Erie St. property to help close a budget gap, and a plan set for approval at Wednesday?s council meeting would create a mostly residential mixed-use development with ground-floor commercial space.

Councilman Steve Fulop at the City Council?s April 27 meeting suggested removing the property?s parking lot from the redevelopment plan and creating a municipal parking lot or garage to solve what he said was a need for Downtown parking.

Tonight, the city trotted out a Columbia University professor ? who once taught Fulop, no less ? to say even efficient municipal parking facilities end up being publicly subsidized because they don?t pay for themselves.

There isn?t enough space on the property to build an efficient garage, and a lot or a mechanical garage would also be unfeasible, said professor Thomas Banker of Columbia?s School of International and Public Affairs.

The lot is ?not a candidate for any parking use at all,? Banker said.

City Planner Bob Cotter, meanwhile, presented the council with a document that listed 15 garages in the neighborhood of 8 Erie St. that can be used by members of the public.

Fulop, who left the caucus early to attend a community meeting, was not immediately available to comment on Banker?s assessment

Posted on: 2011/5/10 3:16
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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I think the point is that when 12' row houses are still going for 5-600k a lot this size could bring more than 4million even in today's market.

Posted on: 2011/5/6 18:52
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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Well yes, the city could get a better price if they waited for the real estate market to recover. But probably wouldn't be looking to patch the city's budget then either.

Posted on: 2011/5/6 13:23
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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Statement by Mike Francisco President, Harsimus Cove Association, Regarding the Proposed Sale of 8 Erie Street, Jersey City, NJ

May 6, 2011 ? ?Recent coverage of the proposed sale of 8 Erie Street, better known as Jersey City Police Headquarters, has focused on the construction of a parking structure, yet no such land use has officially been proposed. Rather, the issue of immediate concern is the apparent haste that the City is showing in selling the property. It strikes us as odd that the City would be satisfied with selling 8 Erie and an adjacent parking lot?prime real estate in historic Downtown Jersey City? for a pauper?s sum of $4 million. Anybody who has recently looked at the price of a single-family row house knows that the stated sale price of 8 Erie and the adjoining parking lot is alarmingly low.

?Most troubling about this situation is that the proposed sale of this landmark building in the heart of the Harsimus Cove Historic District has not been opened up to the public. The residents and business owners in Harsimus Cove and Downtown Jersey City should have a say in what ultimately comes of this property. For example, the Jersey City Board of Education?s Department of Early Childhood Education has for years looked for available space Downtown. And perhaps local businesses could make a strong argument for the construction of a parking garage on the existing lot. We will not have the opportunity to find out until the City engages in a fair, transparent and public vetting of all redevelopment proposals.

?The Harsimus Cove Association wants to guarantee the highest and best use of 8 Erie Street for all of our residents. As bad as the City is in need of money, the purchase price of $4 million is hardly adequate or ?fair market value.? We must begin to think long-term and not throw away the opportunity to do what is right for our neighborhood?not just for today, but for the future. The process must be open and transparent, with input from this association and the residents of Jersey City.

?We urge Mayor Healy and the City to make this the transparent and open process Jersey City deserves. Please don?t sell our neighborhood and our future short.?

http://www.harsimuscove.org/news/8-erie-statement

Posted on: 2011/5/6 13:13
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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If the proposal was to flatten some buildings to create surface parking, I'd get the outrage. But it sounds like what's on the table is to open up an already existing parking lot for use as a municipal lot, in an area adjacent to lots of commercial establishments. While the real estate market remains soft, it's not a bad idea, and the market will dictate if/when the property will make more sense as something else. In the interim, I'll take the word of an actual Newark Avenue business owner over the armchair urban planning intelligentsia.

Chill out, people. And save the heavy-handed Times Square comparisons. Jersey City will never be Manhattan. No matter what your realtor told you.

Posted on: 2011/4/30 18:38
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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Just because you own a business does not mean you have a special insight into what will bring more business. As pointed out above businesses always fight for more parking and they are almost universally proven wrong when infill of parking brings more business.

It isn't even really a question, infill increases property values and business opportunities. It. Has been Studied to death. There is a reason property values and business rents are higher in downtowns.

Posted on: 2011/4/30 12:48
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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New York City caters to tourists with the pedestrian friendly streets. Has anyone identified the people downtown JC wants to bring in with the increased parking?

Posted on: 2011/4/30 4:48
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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Metropolis wrote: Quote:
mfadam wrote: parking ain't the issue for newark/grove business owners...
Yes it is... <-- Newark ave business owner. Mark.
Business owners usually do happen to be the largest proponents of giving over public spaces to automobiles and continue to be one of the greatest obstacles to building pedestrian friendly and pro-pedestrian environments. One of the more recent and high profile examples of this has been the conversion of Broadway in Manhattan from a multilane avenue to a mostly pedestrian mall. "Foot traffic grew by 11 percent in Times Square and by 6 percent in Herald Square, and a survey of local businesses found that more than two-thirds of the area?s retailers wanted the project to become permanent." NY Times Certainly I will agree that Newark Avenue is not Time Square. But this conflict between building parking lots versus increasing urban infill has been going on across the country for the better part of the last three decades. In most cases when living communities are given a priority over automobiles, property values rise, retail traffic increases, and neighborhoods are revitalized. Does less parking make it more difficult for someone to take home a grand piano in the back of their Suburban? Yes, probably. And thats probably true of large item purchases like mattresses and dining room sets too. But even if there were more surface parking lots in the downtown, that's not going to make any easier loading a grand piano (or a mattress or a dining room set) into the back of a suburban. Better management of metered parking might-- increasing the cost of meters to encourage drivers planning on longer stays to park in garages and thus freeing up parking for short stays like say picking up dinner at Its Greek To Me. Ultimately for business owners its not about the parking but the customers. One of the previous posts mentioned how difficult it was to get downtown from other parts of the city. I would say the problem then isn't the lack of parking downtown, but the lack of accessibility to the downtown; if the city is serious about improving Newark Avenue retail then instead of discussing obliterating the commercial district with more dead zones of parking lots, perhaps its time to discuss increasing transit options to the corridor. The bottom line is parking lots are not beneficial to a vital urban community. At this point I'll refer to my post on the Why the Waterfront is Dead Thread. Quote:
Yvonne wrote: Downtown did have parking spaces before the garages and vacant land became condo buildings.
Yes, and back then vacant brownstones now worth $1,000,000 were being auctioned for $7,500 and the city was a burned out shell.

Posted on: 2011/4/30 1:36
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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Yvonne wrote:
So the above writers believe Downtown should be a walking community. What about the older residents who was born here but now have arthritis or heart disease and get around using a car? Or families with children? Downtown did have parking spaces before the garages and vacant land became condo buildings.
Why are you moving Yvonne, after all these years? We will miss your passion and ?thorn in the side? dedication to making things better in Jersey City.

Posted on: 2011/4/30 0:37
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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So the above writers believe Downtown should be a walking community. What about the older residents who was born here but now have arthritis or heart disease and get around using a car? Or families with children? Downtown did have parking spaces before the garages and vacant land became condo buildings.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 23:59
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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mfadam wrote: parking ain't the issue for newark/grove business owners...
Yes it is... <-- Newark ave business owner. Mark.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 23:57
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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How about making Newark from Jersey east a walking/biking street?

Posted on: 2011/4/29 20:23
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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srg1 wrote:
And if I live in Canco, the argument is that I should take the PATH to Grove and then walk? What if I live in Bayonne?

Has Fulop said where he wants to draw people from? Are these Newport people (they could walk too?)? Or people from out of town?


Light rail, or maybe one the 1/2 full parking decks in the area? If you add a bunch of surface parking downtown looks like a strip mall and no one is driving any distance to go to a strip mall in JC, they'll just go to the strip mall around the corner.

People like to walk around and shop. Even malls are designed for people to walk from store to store. If you spread out lots and make it easy for a person to drive from spot to spot that is just what they do, drive in pick up 1 thing and leave. That isn't going to help anyone in the long run. Making a nice street scape that people want to browse around for a while will.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 20:14
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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Bicycle!

You can be anywhere downtown in 10 minutes on a bike.

Robin.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 17:39
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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I'm no urban planner, but it seems to me that downtown JC doesn't know if it wants to be a city or a suburb. While some people walk, others do their errands in their cars. The public transportation system is not as extensive as in many large cities. Sure, there is the light rail and there are buses, but not everyone lives close to a stop. Some local businesses are definitely suffering, but whether that's because of permit issues, the way the businesses are being run, or lack of customers, I don't know. Or maybe it's because NYC is so close. I wish there was a bus in my neighborhood to zip me to Newark, Grove, and Paulus Hook, as I don't always have time/inclination to walk and I would prefer not to drive. But would enough people use it? That said, the parking decks should have validation systems with local businesses if they don't already, so people are encouraged to shop locally.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 17:07
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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You should check out that other city across the river. New York. Im still yet to find one large surface parking lot in retail sections, and still crazy people are apparently getting by walking around there. and it doesnt seem to be hurting business either. Obviously, I dont want to compare JC to NYC, but JC can start moving in the right direction of catering to walkers and allowing cars to park on the streets. As opposed to where it seems to be heading. Cater to cars and allow people to walk around busy roads and parking lots. Not to mention those pretty strip malls we have.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 16:45
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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And if I live in Canco, the argument is that I should take the PATH to Grove and then walk? What if I live in Bayonne?

Has Fulop said where he wants to draw people from? Are these Newport people (they could walk too?)? Or people from out of town?

Posted on: 2011/4/29 16:22
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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srg1 wrote:
If I live in Liberty Harbor and want a quick lunch at It's Greek To Me on a Saturday afternoon, what are my parking options? Is it just driving around the block hoping that a spot opens up? Is it parking at Grove Point and then walking to Jersey Ave? Am I supposed to walk 15 minutes each way and not drive (I probably would not go in that case).


My first thought is - if it takes you 15 minutes to walk from Liberty Harbor to It's Greek to Me, you are walking REALLY slow!

And, like Ian said, the point of living in a city is to live a walkable lifestyle. A 10-15 minute walk is NOT considered a long walk for a city dweller. This is why people who live in cities are generally more fit than car-reliant suburban dwellers.

Honestly, even if your car was parked right outside your residence, and there was a parking spot RIGHT next to It's Greek to Me, I really don't think you'd be saving much time versus walking.


agreed, you should prob walk, unless it's raining, then order delivery.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 15:32
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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I cannot understand why anyone would ever drive from one place to another within the downtown area, other than to do a large amount of shopping. Anywhere within the Morris Canal Basin, the Hudson River, 12th Street, and the Turnpike is walkable. Weather permitting, obviously.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 15:01
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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srg1 wrote:
If I live in Liberty Harbor and want a quick lunch at It's Greek To Me on a Saturday afternoon, what are my parking options? Is it just driving around the block hoping that a spot opens up? Is it parking at Grove Point and then walking to Jersey Ave? Am I supposed to walk 15 minutes each way and not drive (I probably would not go in that case).


My first thought is - if it takes you 15 minutes to walk from Liberty Harbor to It's Greek to Me, you are walking REALLY slow!

And, like Ian said, the point of living in a city is to live a walkable lifestyle. A 10-15 minute walk is NOT considered a long walk for a city dweller. This is why people who live in cities are generally more fit than car-reliant suburban dwellers.

Honestly, even if your car was parked right outside your residence, and there was a parking spot RIGHT next to It's Greek to Me, I really don't think you'd be saving much time versus walking.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 14:22
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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dtjcview wrote:

Agree totally.

Here's an interesting article on using technology to track, price and publish availability of metered parking spaces.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/29/technology/streetline/index.htm


Streets Blog has a really easy to understand video with graphics, and explain a new system of automatically adjusted meter rates.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 13:39
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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srg1 wrote:
Am I supposed to walk 15 minutes each way and not drive (I probably would not go in that case).


Well, rather simply, yes. Because that's the whole point of living in a city.

Or order delivery.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 13:30
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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I think this all comes down to urban planning. I think we need to plan development of Grove, Newark and other areas like any Mall developer would plan it. Let's say we envisage parts of Newark and Grove as a walk-only district (think open-air mall), then we need to guarantee parking spots, and not have prospective shoppers play "hunt the open meter".


Meter hunting is a big problem since it contributes to traffic congestion as well as air pollutants. The main issue here is that street parking pricing doesn't reflect the real value. Ideally the average shopper would go straight to garage and park -- and there are already public garages on and around Grove Street. But creating more meter and/or free parking doesn't solve the issue. The same way adding more lanes to a highway doesn't reduce congestion, it just means more cars passing through the same location, increasing the number of undervalued spaces merely means more people will opt to park in cheaper street parking than in garages. Instead, there street parking costs should be better managed; meters should cost more to reflect demand and encourage drivers to simply park in a garage rather than encouraging people to park at cheap or free meters.


Agree totally.

Here's an interesting article on using technology to track, price and publish availability of metered parking spaces.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/29/technology/streetline/index.htm

Posted on: 2011/4/29 12:25
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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JC has 1/2 empty parking garages all over the place. Cities are not supposed to be filled with surface parking for all the reasons stated above. Merchants who are looking for more parking spots would be surprised that those lots don't bring them business but rather drive people away. If you have an empty lot that becomes another storefront or housing vs an empty lot that becomes a parking lot there is no comparison on which is better for the economy of the city and the wallets of the stores in the surrounding area.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 12:00
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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If I live in Liberty Harbor and want a quick lunch at It's Greek To Me on a Saturday afternoon, what are my parking options? Is it just driving around the block hoping that a spot opens up? Is it parking at Grove Point and then walking to Jersey Ave? Am I supposed to walk 15 minutes each way and not drive (I probably would not go in that case).

Posted on: 2011/4/29 11:43
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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dtjcview wrote:

I think this all comes down to urban planning. I think we need to plan development of Grove, Newark and other areas like any Mall developer would plan it. Let's say we envisage parts of Newark and Grove as a walk-only district (think open-air mall), then we need to guarantee parking spots, and not have prospective shoppers play "hunt the open meter".


Meter hunting is a big problem since it contributes to traffic congestion as well as air pollutants. The main issue here is that street parking pricing doesn't reflect the real value. Ideally the average shopper would go straight to garage and park -- and there are already public garages on and around Grove Street. But creating more meter and/or free parking doesn't solve the issue. The same way adding more lanes to a highway doesn't reduce congestion, it just means more cars passing through the same location, increasing the number of undervalued spaces merely means more people will opt to park in cheaper street parking than in garages. Instead, there street parking costs should be better managed; meters should cost more to reflect demand and encourage drivers to simply park in a garage rather than encouraging people to park at cheap or free meters.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 3:47
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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Yvonne wrote:
Downtown JC needs parking spaces for residents. The 26" snowstorm was a burden to local residents with cars. There should be parking gargages and lots throught this city.


You are confusing two different issues. The city should have removed the snow from the streets as was done in many municipalities around the state and the region. And destroying the urban fabric for the occasional very large snowstorm makes absolutely no sense at all.

Posted on: 2011/4/29 3:42
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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Surface parking lots destroy urban centers and downtown shopping districts. Whatever benefit gained by providing "shoppers" parking is greatly outweighed by the blight parking lots bring to an area. More parking means more cars; cars don't go into stores to buy things or eat at restaurants, people do. Increasing pedestrian traffic is far more important than increasing vehicle traffic.

Moreover there already are plenty of parking spaces in the garage at Grove Pointe and 50 Columbus. If local businesses believe a lack of parking is deterring customers, they should work to have a parking validation system with these existing garages.

Also, the city is preparing to eliminate more street parking. When Columbus drive is repaved and relined, half the street parking will be eliminated either in the morning or in evening, according to the flow of rush hour traffic. The cab stand will be pushed onto Grove Street, eliminating more metered parking.

Surface parking lots increase the distance between shops, are aesthetically unpleasing, and create dangerous pedestrian situations as cars cross the sidewalk to enter or exit the lot. The city should be concentrating on filling in empty lots rather than encouraging more unsightly parking lots.


I think this all comes down to urban planning. I think we need to plan development of Grove, Newark and other areas like any Mall developer would plan it. Let's say we envisage parts of Newark and Grove as a walk-only district (think open-air mall), then we need to guarantee parking spots, and not have prospective shoppers play "hunt the open meter".

Posted on: 2011/4/28 22:28
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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Downtown JC needs parking spaces for residents. The 26" snowstorm was a burden to local residents with cars. There should be parking gargages and lots throught this city.

Posted on: 2011/4/28 21:23
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Re: Jersey City councilman wants more parking Downtown
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Surface parking lots destroy urban centers and downtown shopping districts. Whatever benefit gained by providing "shoppers" parking is greatly outweighed by the blight parking lots bring to an area. More parking means more cars; cars don't go into stores to buy things or eat at restaurants, people do. Increasing pedestrian traffic is far more important than increasing vehicle traffic.

Moreover there already are plenty of parking spaces in the garage at Grove Pointe and 50 Columbus. If local businesses believe a lack of parking is deterring customers, they should work to have a parking validation system with these existing garages.

Also, the city is preparing to eliminate more street parking. When Columbus drive is repaved and relined, half the street parking will be eliminated either in the morning or in evening, according to the flow of rush hour traffic. The cab stand will be pushed onto Grove Street, eliminating more metered parking.

Surface parking lots increase the distance between shops, are aesthetically unpleasing, and create dangerous pedestrian situations as cars cross the sidewalk to enter or exit the lot. The city should be concentrating on filling in empty lots rather than encouraging more unsightly parking lots.


I agree with you in principle, I'm a fan of James Howard Kunstler, the planning critic, but there's more than 1 way to do these things. The lot on 1st between Jersey & Erie is a good example of how not to disrupt the streetscape of the commercial strip.

Personally, while I walk & bike quite a lot, I also often run errands and pick up my kids in the car. More than a few times Grove restaurants missed my lunch business because there was no place to park. West of Jersey on Newark I can usually find a spot.

Posted on: 2011/4/28 19:53
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