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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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The gentrification of the downtown really stems from the fact that Brooklyn costs too much. Brooklyn benefitted from Manhattan costing too much. Journal Square will benefit when the downtown costs too much.

For some people, the downtown already is beyond their price range and that has pushed people with disposable income beyond the fringes towards JSQ.

Posted on: 2011/4/12 15:55
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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Why does everything have to look like downtown? Save the billions and fix up what’s already broken in this city such as the lack of high school and schools..

Posted on: 2011/4/12 12:47
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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I think Jersey City, in particular, and New Jersey, in general, lack the vision thing. The city government really does, IMO, think it works for developers.

Posted on: 2011/4/12 12:23
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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@JCSHEP

The reason downtown was able to see rapid development is because less people lived there during that time as opposed to J.sq. The square is the densest part of all of JC. Much of J.sq has old infrastructure dating back from the early 1900s, even mid 1800s to late. Downtown had space and was better laid out. The outside area J.sq, like Marion, would be better suited to change, i can see that happen. The "main" area would be hard since it is so compacted and many of the streets are narrow so bringing in bulldozers, cranes and other things needed would be difficult and meaning the closing off of certain streets.

I too love this city, born and raised, and would love to see J.sq especially change but realistically it would be a challenge. We would have to change how people think of the city, from just an "alternative" of ny to a priority of NJ. Even though ny has very, very limited space developers still continue to build there. "Outsiders" don't view this city the same as they do other places so they don't really want to spend the necessary time and money to change it. There are developers who are still reluctant to build outside downtown.

Posted on: 2011/4/12 12:22
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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I personally don't think JSQ is ever going to be anything close to what Hoboken is. Nor is it ever going to be anything like what the JSQ redevelopment committee thinks it will be (e.g., JC's 'times square'). This is all because those places are just a train ride away. Why would anybody go to a watered down version or Hoboken or times square when you can just hop / stay on the train and go to the real thing?

JSQ already has quite a lot to offer. And there are new businesses opening up all the time. I think 3 new restaurants opened up on India Square in the past month. And a new mexican spot is opening up on Sip ave soon.

The issue with JSQ is that nobody with money wants to support and nourish what JSQ already has. It's all about creating sprawling new expensive crap these days, which isn't amenable to what JSQ already has.

In response to the original question, I don't see any plans out there right now which would lead me to call JSQ 'up and coming'. However, if the right person / people step in to nurture what it already has and promote small growth, this place could be awesome in, say, 5 to 10 years. But it won't be anything like hoboken.

Posted on: 2011/4/12 12:19
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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I dont think gentrification has to take as long as people here are stating, i saw it happen in less time downtown. I lived in the warehouse district downtown for 6 years, Paulus Hook before that. I remember going to Grove street where there were abandoned bombed out buildings right next to the PATH stop (where Grove Pt is now). Around the Gazebo area there were homeless everywhere, and general sketchiness that tops anything i have seen at JSQ these days. I also remember how much the local shops/restaurants were lacking around this time. Moving west from Grove it wasn’t anywhere near what it is today. I think this was about 2006.

Who knows if it will actually happen in JSQ, it may never, but I personally don’t have an issue with the area now. If someone is focused on living in the end result of some kind of change they probably wont be happy with the transition period. I am bullish on JC as a whole. I have and continue to love living here. I feel like I am one of the few people I know who really loves the city where I live, and that is a good feeling. Its nice to come home from a trip to that feeling. I have seen changes continue, I have friends who were and are priced out of downtown, they now rent or have bought around JSQ or the heights. I have friends who recently moved here from other cities and towns within our metro, i think that is encouraging if you are interested in growth. My opinion is JC has continued to gentrify at a very fast pace during this downturn.

Posted on: 2011/4/12 11:47
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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Even before the recession the city’s plans for this area were unrealistic to the point of being absurd- even with unlimited funding they weren’t going to be able to build the projects they were proposing, they spent a lot of time and money developing their unrealistic plans. The development was shelved and no Plan B for what to do with the area has emerged. Meanwhile they have ignored the sort of routine maintenance any neighborhood requires, presumably in anticipation of tearing everything down and rebuilding it all in one tremendous unprecedented effort in which all the infrastructure would have been re-invented. As we know, the city is now unable to wipe its own behind, let alone embark on projects of the scale they were proposing just a few years ago. So Journal Square remains in a limbo of poor planning.
In this limbo, the city has done nothing to maintain what infrastructure that remains, and the quality of life here suffers as a result.
As things now stand in Journal Square when something breaks it remains broken. The debris choked 911 memorial fountain has been dry since 2009, the Path Plaza is crumbling. The granite edges of the traffic island and the sidewalk paving blocks along the storefronts are broken and wobbling and nobody even patches the holes with cement when a chunk breaks off. Plastic garbage bags are stuck in the tree limbs. The crappy temporary fence surrounding the empty lot- the one where the huge sky scrapers were to commence construction-looks its age, it was not intended to stand there for so many years and now its a metaphor for the way the city has turned its back on this place. The shocking pile of empty vodka bottles tossed there by the plazas intractable homeless is the only thing being developed there.

I have lived in Journal Square for ten years. Lots of potential in this area, we have a transit hub, roads that converge from all other parts of town, parking, a movie theater and plenty of storefronts for retail development. The plaza at the bus and PATH complex serves well as a public square. Affordable rents. All this is true. Unfortunately this neighborhood is being allowed to deteriorate despite all these assets.

Posted on: 2011/4/12 10:28
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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JSQ is what it is and people live there because it's affordable and somewhat convenient.

Posted on: 2011/4/12 10:10
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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Quote:

Beachguy wrote:
I actually just went to Boulevard Drinks last week


Nom nom nom nom nom

Posted on: 2011/4/12 9:44
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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If you look at the topic about Montgermory gardens there is a link to an article about that area, if you can't find it here it is:

http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewt ... id=266641#forumpost266641


Nice links @ itgirl. and you do have a point in trying to support local entertainment, which is why i hate when someones mentions new york or hoboken for entertainment. We should get people INTO the city which would also help expand the "fun". This city has hidden spots throughout but most never hear about it.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 20:57
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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The long term plan looks really good, but nothing will happen until the Port Authority is committed to rebuild the PATH station and bus terminal, and NJT to run possible light rail or bus rapid transit. That will not happen during the Christie administration, unfortunately.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 20:10
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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Couldn't one say that all of JC is "up and coming"? Same could be said for Hoboken, certain parts of NYC, etc...every city is "up and coming" depending on the block/area you are talking about.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 19:52
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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what is developing in McGinley Sq?

Posted on: 2011/4/11 19:26
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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15 yrs in the heights, nothing has changed. If it works for you, stay put. If you want excitement, go somewhere else.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 18:55
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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Great post, itgirl. I actually just went to Boulevard Drinks last week for the first time and strolled around a bit and was pleasantly surprised at the activity. JSQ still has good and bad blocks, but so does downtown. It's going to take some time but PATH access is a BIG plus for the areas, not to mention the places that you cited.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 18:40
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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I think Hoboken is watered down enough, so I hope JSQ doesn't go the same route.

As a resident of the area, and someone who has been around when other neighborhoods have been "gentrified", I find that things kind of happen organically. What people usually do is choose to support a local scene or two that is more like the neighborhood they want than the one they have. Have you checked out what's going on with Uptown Crew?

http://jcuptowncrew.blogspot.com/

Have you gone to any of the live music events at Raph's Plaza or checked out the stuff at Ed's Salvage?

http://www.edssalvageco.com/

Do you see any of the flicks at the Loew's Jersey or frequent the Farmers Market in JSQ? Go to any neighborhood association meetings? How about finding out what's up with Lincoln Park (which is beautiful in the spring and summer)?

If you consistently support the new and interesting things that are happening in your neighborhood, and get your friends and neighbors to do the same, you'll be happier with where you are and you'll be a factor in making the area the kind of place that new businesses will take a chance on.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 17:46
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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Quote:

missmags wrote:
I kept hearing that JSQ was soon to become a smaller, watered down version of Hoboken.


Lets just hope it that never happens. If people want Hoboken I don't understand why they don't just move there. Stop trying to change JC , you already have most of downtown leave the rest alone for crying out loud.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 11:31
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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I would love it to be up and coming to a place where you can stroll down the street and go a nice new restaurant, sit in a cafe and drink some coffee, some nice local bars and maybe even a bookstore and some cute retail shops. I kept hearing that JSQ was soon to become a smaller, watered down version of Hoboken. In my opinion that would be awesome but we are FAR from that.

Trust me I considered packing up and moving since Hoboken has exactly what I am looking for BUT that is something I cant do unless I want to lose all the money I put down. It's unfortunate so for now I will make the best of this situation and pretend that the Village restaurant, Journal Square Pub and all the dollar stores suit my needs. lol

Posted on: 2011/4/11 11:09
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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I've lived in JSQ for about 3 years now and I think what others have said is right. It may eventually come around, but it's going to take a long time (at least 10 to 20 years), and it will need another economic boom until those 'towers' get built.

That being said, I'm curious about what ends you envision by when you say 'up and coming'? I.e., up and coming into what?

Posted on: 2011/4/11 10:58
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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You could be best described as a "settler" and that prairie has a long way to go before it will be settled.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 9:53
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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I think everyone forgets how long gentrification actually takes. Projects like JSQ can take decades. Progress is being made, but its slow and clumsy.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 9:24
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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To me JSQ seems to have a lot of transients, single people, loners, and foreign born Middle Eastern people. The area surrounding the Square seems kind of seedy the houses seem run down. The area has an uninviting feel to it without a notion that everyone rents with houses having absentee landlords. Journal Square has a midtown Manhattan hint to it not much to feel as though you are in a neighborhood. It need life.

Posted on: 2011/4/11 0:48
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Re: Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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Yea J.sq is being developed. The whole area is slated for a giant reform but J.sq's area will take years as they planned up to 2050 so it obviously won't happen fast. Though Mcginley Sq. is up and coming as now plans for development are gaining steam. Since Bergen/Lafayette are right next to J.sq, it wouldn't be hard to imagine that the influx of that area would start spilling over into J.sq. So i honestly say 3 years top for any noticeable change.

Posted on: 2011/4/10 22:37
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Opinions on Journal Square - Is it still up and coming?
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I have lived in Journal Square for 4 years now and when I moved here it was partly because it was up and coming, close to the city and "affordable" compared to other areas. It's been 4 years and there have been barely any changes.

Obviously JSQ was hit by the economy and like everyone else our market value's have gone down. I have basically put it in my head that I would need another couple years before I can (hopefully) regain my equity which is a reality I have to deal with.

What are people's opinions on the JSQ area? Do people know of developments in the area or things in the pipeline.

Let me know what you think.

Posted on: 2011/4/10 22:14
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