Here is a link to a much more detailed presentation on the project, although definitely from the perspective of Hoboken. Page 15 shows 23 acres in JC. Also look at pages 32-24 for interesting data on building heights.

Here's a link to the redevelopment plan.

And here's a link to the redevelopment study.

I haven't been able to find equivalent studies or plans for the JC portion of the site.

The real change here I think be a better integration between Jersey City and Hoboken (and really, a logical question will be why Hoboken continues to exist as independent municipality, but that is an entirely separate issue). While the project is taller than anything else in Hoboken at present, its not really much taller than the plans for the northern quadrant of Newport. The Hobokenites opposed to this are rather short sighted. Newport's plan calls for high rises up to the border, meaning whatever negative side there is of dense development will spill over to Hoboken whether they fight this project or not, and at least if it goes through they receive some tax revenue as result.

That will really change the Jersey City - Hoboken!

Will all the building ever slow down?

So then they could run the gas line alongside the trains and build high rises OVER the trains.

Who is in charge of design, Al Quaida?

i can't figure out how to blow up these photos, although the majority of it falls in hoboken it does affect JC as well:

http://www.fxfowle.com/projects/plann ... rd-redevelopment-plan.php

I believe when they say "The area of interest includes 52 acres of land within the City of Hoboken," they actually mean: 52 acres of the land slated for redevelopment are within Hoboken, but not all of the land. Part of the yards are in Jersey City, and I believe a portion of the redevelopment will also be in Jersey City.

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From the RFQ:

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Read the last line. That area is wholly within the Hoboken borders. Not passing judgement on the project, but it's not in Jersey City.

Interesting to see that Mayor Zimmer is assuming this is all about Hoboken when a majority of the redevelopment falls in JC, where's our fearless leader Mayor Healy?


HOBOKEN -- On Monday, Sept. 27, from 7 ? 9 p.m., New Jersey Transit will hold a community meeting in the waiting room of the Hoboken Terminal to share their proposed plan for a 52-acre redevelopment project.

The city of Hoboken published a press release on Monday evening providing an update regarding redevelopment near the Hoboken Terminal.

Two years ago, NJ Transit proposed a project that, according to the city, did not reflect the wishes of the community. The proposal included residential buildings as tall as 45 stories and a 70-story commercial tower.

In the fall of 2009, Mayor Dawn Zimmer secured an agreement to halt state legislation which would have given NJ Transit nearly unfettered authority to redevelop any property they own throughout New Jersey in any way they see fit, according to a city press release.

To ensure an independent design process, Zimmer is recommending that the city pay for the planning process so the planner is dedicated to Hoboken?s best interests, according to the release.

Zimmer?s main concern is that the city and the council, as the redevelopment entity, should have authority over the entire project. According to the city press release, she is working to address the issue through a possible inter-local agreement between the city and NJ Transit that will be presented to the council for approval if an agreement is reached.

http://www.hobokennj.org/news/mayor-z ... te-on-nj-transit-project/

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I'm not sure she understands the limits of the powers of the Hoboken Council.

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The first step is for Hudson's legislators to stop getting indicted / resigning so that they build up some power in the state house again.

To push 'hands off NJ Transit' develop bill

Friday, October 09, 2009

HOBOKEN - The sponsor of a bill that would allow NJ Transit to develop its properties without input from local communities says he's moving forward with it, whether Hoboken likes it or not.

Last week, Hoboken acting Mayor Dawn Zimmer announced that state Sen. Paul Sarlo, a Bergen County Democrat, "agreed not to go forward until Hoboken is satisfied with its (the bill's) content."

On Wednesday, however, Sarlo released a statement saying that while he planned to introduce an amendment that "would provide for local input and protections," he still plans to move forward with it when the Legislature reconvenes in November.

Hoboken Second Ward Councilwoman Beth Mason, who is running for mayor, vowed to fight the bill.

"This bill must be stopped," she said in a news release. "I am calling on the state senators in Hudson County to join with me and the people of Hoboken to defeat this legislation that has the power to destroy the quality of life of our city."

Zimmer, who is also running for mayor, said her "pro-active" steps led Sarlo to redraft his bill "to ensure that local communities will be able to set their own destiny."

AMY SARA CLARK

LOOMING TURF WAR?
Hoboken may want a say in NJ Transit's big plans

Thursday, October 09, 2008
By AMY SARA CLARK
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

HOBOKEN - A plan by NJ Transit and Mayor David Roberts to build parks, public plazas and nearly a dozen skyscrapers on land along Observer Highway has been catching heat. Residents at a recent public meeting about the plan called it everything from a "monstrosity" to a "comic book."

But whether these residents - or even the City Council - have the power to alter NJ Transit's plans for its 36 acres around the Hoboken Terminal is an open question.

"It's state-owned property - it does not need to get approvals from a subordinate entity," said NJ Transit attorney Paul Werther at the Sept. 25 meeting where details of the plan were revealed.

"But," he added, "it's the policy of NJ Transit to seek out and involve the municipality."

Fred Bado, Hoboken's community development director, who is also an attorney, has said he agrees with NJ Transit's stance, but others in the administration aren't so sure.

The city's attorney, Steve Kleinman, said the law is ambiguous on the point.

"I think you'd end up in a court battle and it would be a very interesting case," he said.

And it's a case land-use attorney Michael B. Kates is confident Hoboken would win.

Kates - who was hired to research the question by the recently formed Hoboken Citizens for Balanced Development - said NJ Transit might have the right to ignore local zoning for new train routes or other transit improvements, but not to build condos and office buildings.

"This is essentially a fiscal initiative," he said. "It might help the operating budget, but that doesn't mean they can override local laws."

Hoboken Mayor David Roberts said he hasn't looked into the city's legal rights because he trusts NJ Transit's promise to seek local approval for its plans.

The redevelopment plan - which essentially creates new zoning for the site - was created by FXFOWLE, a planning firm hired by Hoboken with funds from NJ Transit, in consultation with the administration, NJ Transit, LCOR, NJ Transit's chosen developer, and feedback from two public meetings.

NJ Transit next plans to submit the plan to the City Council, and two council members - Peter Cammarano and Dawn Zimmer - have already vowed to fight it.

"Mayor Roberts is going to choke Hoboken, really crush the Fourth Ward with his 'signature skyline' proposed by NJ Transit," Zimmer said.

If the City Council votes it down, NJ Transit can either negotiate with the council or proceed without its approval and chance a legal battle.

I attended this presentation and stayed for some of the public questions.

some of the issues are -

- there were no public meetings and no public input before the plan was completed and now going to Hoboken's Planning Board and City Council

- it does not conform to Hoboken's master plan by building on the yards

- the sewer upgrades are no more than that was previously committed with the Light Rail construction, but not built

- 6,000 people, planners allege that only 260 will attend public schools.

- concerns about electric capacity as this area of Hoboken has had tranformer issues and brown outs.

- the platform over the rail yards would be 20 to 40 feet high.

- no provision for the cost of the platform above the rail yards, like either the Hudson Yards in Manhattan or Atlantic Yards in Booklyn projects.

- no additional recreational facilities provided by this plan

- the bulk of the benefits to Hoboken are limited to landscaping north of the terminal, yards and Observer Highway to be renamed Ferry Blvd.

While obviously, the architectural renderings are only a concept (they will likely look even worse), rather than this project knit Hoboken and Jersey City together, it places a mountain between our cities.

while there have been good points about utilizing this land to generate revenue for NJ Trainsit, I would like to have seen examples how other historic train terminals have been redevelopment elsewhere in this manner

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The residents of the 6,000 units being built over the rail yards are not going to be taking the PATH from Jersey City stops since they will be, literally, on top of the Hoboken PATH station.

I would be more concerned about the planned residential developments in Harrison and Newark.

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It's not people making the connection from Nj Transit trains that's the problem with the PATH stops in JC.

If the plan is to add additional space for six thousand new residents then really, something has to be done about the already over-crowded situation with the PATH. I understand this is many years off but it should be something that is planned for nonetheless.

The rail yards redevelopment is many years away from breaking ground, let alone constructing the towers. Eventually the new trans Hudson Tunnel will be built, probably before much of this project is; most of the NJ Transit trains that terminate in Hoboken will be rerouted through that tunnel, meaning fewer passengers will be making a connection to New York via the PATH.

As to the height, while Hoboken is not particularly tall, the section of Jersey City that borders the rail yards is zoned for Newport's high rise towers. The concept of the plan calls for lower buildings on the Hoboken side, to correspond with the lower skyline there, and higher buildings on the Jersey City side, where high rise towers are already planned.

NJ Transit will get money for the development, meaning they will be better able to serve their customers. More housing will be created, and while the current downturn may make it seem as though there are too many housing units deflating the value of property, in the long term, housing in the region is in too short a supply. Tri-state area residents pay above average on housing, with a greater proportion of area residents paying above 40% of pretax income on housing expenses than most other areas in the country. That's indicative of a housing shortage.

An estimated 6,000 new residents? I'm sure that means the plans will include a newer, better, and updated PATH system.

Yes! God forbid they develop the barron wasteland that segregates hoboken from jersey city. I hope we never see have to see roads, buildings and parks where we could keep train tracks and walls instead.

People are really annoying sometimes.

FXFOWLE's rendering of what the development of NJ Transit's Hoboken Terminal and rail yards could look like if the administration's development plan is realized.
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Crowd outraged at NJ Transit redevelopment plan

Jersey Journal
by Amy
Sunday September 28, 2008

Hoboken NowResident Maurice DeGennaro turns away during a public meeting of the administration's proposed redevelopment plan for the NJ Transit Terminal at the Multi-Service Center in Hoboken on Sept. 25, 2008.

Mayor David Roberts' plan for parks, public plazas - and nearly dozen high-rise buildings on the NJ Transit rail yard site was met with sarcasm, frustration and finally raw outrage at a public hearing Thursday.

"This plan is most stunning for its sheer arrogance," said resident Lane Bajardi after the plan was presented.

NJ Transit is planning to develop its 36-acre rail yard site on the southern edge of Hoboken. The public agency worked with the administration, FXFOWLE, the architecture and planning firm Hoboken hired through funds from NJ Transit and LCOR, NJ Transit's chosen developer for the site, to create a redevelopment plan that all parties can live with.

But the crowd at Thursday's meeting made it clear that they found the plan the opposite of livable.

When FXFOWLE's senior planner Mark Strauss said the plan tried to "be sensitive to Hoboken's scale and character" the crowd scoffed.

When he referred to a green space as "Freedom Park," (so named because it will face the future Freedom Tower), the room filled with bitter laughter.

But it was only after he showed a rendering of what the new development might look like at night -- featuring a half-dozen glass skyscrapers dwarfing Hoboken and even Jersey City -- that true outrage came to the surface.

"It looks like a comic book," shouted resident Dan Tumpson, who later called it a "cancer" and a "monstrosity."

The design includes 8 acres of new parks and plazas, a landscaped Observer Highway, a traffic circle to ease congestion at Henderson Street, sewer line improvements to prevent flooding and bike paths.

But it also includes 9.2 million square feet of new development including a cluster of "iconic" skyscrapers next to the train station and a line of 18- to 78-story residential buildings set back along Observer Highway with an estimated 3,200 apartments with about 6,000 new residents.

"I feel like this development is going to crush, crush the Fourth Ward and crush the First Ward," said Fourth Ward Councilwoman Dawn Zimmer. "We are going to be packed in like sardines."

Hoboken Parks president Leah Healey, who helped develop the city's Master Plan, said the proposed development blatantly goes against the plan's stipulation that "buildings should not be permitted in the airspace of the rail yards."
Amy Sara Clark / Hoboken NowResident Richard Weinstein, a former attorney for the EPA, questioned whether the public process has been properly followed for the project. "Where's the citizen's advisory group," he asked. "Wasn't there a memorandum of agreement?"

"Under the guise of smart-growth policies and transit-oriented development we are preceding with development that is so far out of whack with the Master Plan ... that on that basis the City Council could reject this plan outright," she said.

But it is not yet clear whether a rejection of the plan by the council would make any difference.

According to NJ Transit, the law only requires the agency only has to "consult" with Hoboken, and it's not clear to what extent the agency has to listen to what Hoboken has to say.

"It's state-owned property. It does not need to get approvals from a subordinate entity," said NJ Transit attorney Paul Werther at the meeting. "But it's their policy to seek out and involve the municipality."

Both Hoboken attorney Richard Weinberg and Healey argued otherwise Thursday, calling NJ Transit's stance merely one "interpretation" and asking for the case law to back it up.

Building above the tracks
First of three meetings for $500M train terminal/condo development plans

By Timothy J. Carroll
Reporter staff writer 06/23/2008

?RAIL? ESTATE ? Plans to build over NJ Transit?s property on Observer Highway were presented last week at the Hoboken Terminal. The complete plan is estimated to cost more than $500 million.

Community members, civic leaders, and other interested parties gathered at the Hoboken Terminal Thursday night to look at the grand plans for the development of the NJ Transit rail yards.

The plans are for most of the 54 acres owned by NJ Transit in Hoboken and Jersey City, including the Hoboken Terminal and ferry station and the agency's land Observer Highway. About 70 percent of the land is within Hoboken's boundary, and the rest falls into Jersey City's jurisdiction.

The plans at this point are very nebulous, but the planning firm that NJ Transit has hired, FXFOWLE, is trying to involve the community in the process.

Mayor David Roberts said at the meeting, "We are hoping to encourage the community in discussion and capture the excitement that's coming."

The redevelopment plan calls for a mixture of uses on the site: residential condos, office space, and retail areas, and other edifices.


Mark Strauss, senior partner for FXFOWLE, called for the transformation of Hoboken's "main gate to the city," with smart development, infrastructure enhancement, and environmental sustainability that will connect the site to the city.

The overall cost of the plan is upwards of $500 million, although it will come from the designated developers and not from taxes. The developers have not yet been chosen.

The site planners are also communicating with Jersey City to assure there is no conflict in development.

Under consideration

Thursday night, the planners presented background on the site, including information on the impact of prominent issues in town: traffic, flooding, open space, and historic preservation.

Traffic patterns and improvements were on display, setting forth various options like roundabouts to alleviate traffic congestion at the base of Hoboken.
________

Planners handed out questionnaires for residents to submit their ideas and concerns about the site.
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Flooding issues were addressed, with upgrades to existing sewer systems along Observer Highway and rainwater collection as part of the proposed solutions.

Open space, though not extensive, was addressed. The planner said the agency would opening up access to piers currently used for ferry docking as well as improve the plaza space next to the Hoboken Terminal.

The funding for the project should also help pay for already planned preservation of the terminal and ferry building.

Concerns of many residents centered on the density and height of the proposed buildings on the site.

Build over train tracks and old yards

Building on top of and over train tracks is part and parcel of the plan, as well as removing some of the N.J. Transit's unused tracks, maintenance facilities, and other existing structures, according to planners.

The rail yard area was the focus of a redevelopment study done by the city in 2006, and the planners are also consulting Hoboken's master plan.

According to planners, there is a precedent for this kind of redevelopment. Park Avenue in New York City was once an area built on tracks that went through Grand Central Station.

Planners said that Hoboken is home to more forms of transit than anywhere in the U.S., and the connection to mass transportation is an important aspect of the development.

Planners believe the close proximity to mass transit should decrease the amount of cars owned in the area, minimizing traffic and parking concerns.

Public input

Planners handed out questionnaires for residents to submit their ideas and concerns about the site.

The questionnaires asked residents what aspects of the plan excite them the most; what uses - residential, office, or retail - do they prefer on site; what infrastructure changes do they want to see; what is their take on the traffic issues; and what concerns they have.

A recent phone poll has also been asking residents for their opinions.

The questionnaires also asked whether residents were very or somewhat supportive of the plans, or not at all.

Finally, they wanted to know what "extra touch" could make the development "uniquely Hoboken."

The next meeting, in mid-July, will present resident input and a more complete plan.

A final meeting in late August will showcase the completed blueprint of the massive development of the largest un-developed area left in Hoboken.

For questions or comments on this story, e-mail tcarroll@hudsonreporter.com.

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also from the Jersey journal
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RAIL YARDS PLAN
Are taller buildings coming to Hoboken?

Monday, June 23, 2008
By AMY SARA CLARK
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

HOBOKEN - A redevelopment plan for the NJ Transit rail yards along the south side of Observer Highway will likely require the city to permit taller builders, according to an architect of the plan.

At a forum held Thursday, Mark Strauss, senior planner for the New York architectural firm FXFOWLE, said the planned commercial and residential development calls for several amenities, including a waterfront park, an improved sewage system and a landscaped Observer Highway.

"There's over $500 million worth of investment that's necessary to achieve these public improvements," Strauss said. "This is the gateway into the city but it looks like you're on the edge of an industrial area."

But in order for a private developer to raise enough money to pay for these amenities, the city is going to have to allow higher density limits, he said, which likely means taller buildings,

Two local residents, Dan Tumpson and David Axelrod, objected to this part of the plan.

"There will be more traffic, more congestion," Tumpson said. "I guarantee when you see the 'improvements' you'll see we're going to get screwed."

Another resident, Joan Abel, an architect, disagreed.

"I don't have a problem with density," Abel said. "I like dense environments in an urban setting."

FXFOWLE distributed about 60 surveys, and will get back to the public with a compilation of the comments in July. The firm expects to bring a plan to the City Council for approval in the fall.