This thing may be a monstrosity and a horrible waste of money, but at least they don't have to close the PATH stations on weekends to build it.

The thing that bothers me the most about this memorial is separating out the victims from NJ and only dedicating this memorial to them. All of these people died together and should be remembered that way.

I think "people" came to their senses a long time ago. We didn't vote for this thing and all our complaints about the ugliness and waste of money have fallen on deaf ears.

Quote:

Just imagine the heat caused by the hot summer sun bouncing back and forth in-between the metals walls. On top of that there will be a stone pathway to reflect the heat further.

Has anyone walked from the WTC PATH to Church St on Vesey through the concrete canyon on a hot summer day?

Quote:

I lived a couple of blocks from that plaza, and boy was that thing oppressive. It made a large public space uncomfortable and ugly, just like this LSP monster will.

If anyone has photos of the LSP space from before the hill and fence were put up, I'd be happy to photoshop a rendering of what this will look like from OTHER angles, like maybe from the park on the other side of the canal or from the ferry docks.

does anyone remember the Richard Serra wall o' steel in downtown NYC? it was only 12' x 120', yet big enough to drive the neighbors nuts and demand its removal. it eventually came down. maybe it'll just take a decade of looking at this LSP atrocity for people to come to their senses.

Richard Serra's ill-fated Federal Plaza wall.

Quote:

Actually, there are plenty of trees that have been planted, they're just not big yet. The first ones are however, much larger than when they were first planted about 8 years ago.

Give it another 8-10 years and parts of LSP will be like walking through a forest.

Take a look at historic photos of Central Park just after completion and you'll see what I mean.

9/11 memorial is a great money spinner - The longer nothing happens the more interest the money is generating..........Just where is that money being held and where is that interest going? Who benefit from the interest? 10 years of interest is no chicken feed!

Lets have an audit, just to make sure everything is kosher!

hero69 said:
Quote:

I used to feel the same way. It seems like they have been adding trees to the park, but mostly around the paths and sidewalks. I run in the park almost every day and do enjoy the views and expansive feel, but it is truly a shame that NYC views trumped usability. Or, at least, that's the way I feel and see it. If you are driving through, or even walking/running along the LSP roads, you get great views of Manhattan. But, if your intention is to enjoy a full day at the park, you better bring a large bottle of sun block! There are almost no shade trees from which to seek solace from the sun. Didn't anyone think that some people may come to the park to enjoy a day out there and not just to ogle the NYC skyline? Regardless, LSP is a great park, and definitely full of things to do. Kite flying at the promontory is fun, there are lots of exercise structures (with good signage explaining how to use them) and the road are very well maintained for running and jogging. Also, if you don't mind the crazy drivers, you can run along the main road (Freedom Way) and measure your distances very easily. In case anyone is interested, here are the measurements:

- From the corner of Phillip St and Audrey Zapp to the corner of Audrey Zapp and Freedom Way is half a mile.

- From Audrey Zapp / Freedom Way to the road that leads to the bridge that goes into Ellis Island is half a mile.

- From Audrey Zapp / Freedom Way to the educational center crosswalk is exactly 1 mile.

- From Audrey Zapp / Freedom Way all the way to the roundabout where the Park Service offices are located (over by the Southeast corner of the park) around the circle and back to Audrey Zapp is just a hair over 5K (3.17 miles)

Quote:

I'm no expert, but I've guessed all the tree they planted on the "lawns" near the water and playground are stunted because they didn't put down much topsoil when they converted it from brownfield, and the rubble landfill underneath retains no water. Just look at that parched excuse for a lawn.

The tree contractors the city uses are also notorious for poorly prepared plantings. The trees around McNair are continuously wilted and have barely grown in 13 years, clearly they have no access to groundwater.

I stopped going to LSP becasue the last time I went there were no trees for shade. I'd rather go to a park with shade trees but now I will explore LSP again

Quote:

Are you being ironic? Or do you not know there already IS a NJ 9/11 memorial in the park, called the Grove of Remembrance, with trees planted for every NJ victim. But apparently it's in too good taste for the promoters of this monster.

Why don't they plant some trees in on a man-made hill or something to honor the 9-11 victims

We walked by the hill yesterday. What a stupid stupid idea this was. At least one can walk around the hill to see the view, but this whole thing is really stupid.

Quote:

Great point, but this whole juggernaut is beyond logic, or aesthetics, it simply is a political Frankenstein's monster, apparently unstoppable because people who will never visit this park want it there.

What I still cannot believe is the fact that this design was chosen at all.

And not because anyone may think it's unattractive or in the wrong location, but for the simple fact that the "empty sky" it supposedly frames will soon be anything but empty.

Forget "view corridors" and aesthetics; this design fails on a basic conceptual level which is what the base-line of good memorial design should aspire to.

That illustration in the Reporter is criminally deceptive. The depth perspective is completely out of scale, the people in the background of a 300 foot long alley would be minute.

Hasn't anyone done renderings showing what the views from anywhere BUT the ends look like?

Send the money to the Army in Afganistan to catch bin ladin which will never happen....................with all the technology and military crap, we can't catch the worlds No.1 terrorist.

Bin Ladin must be laughing his ass off with the billions spent in Afganistan and money wasted in Iraq.

The memorial should be Uncle Sam with a big 'L' on his forehead!

The best memorial is the empty sky.

I didn't care much about the memorial until I saw what a horrible atrocity it was this weekend in the free paper I usually let rot on my stoop. Man can't we just have a plaque or something? An official memorial of NJ, please, sounds like the state wanted some extra bucks to skim of the the top cause who would argue against a 9-11 memorial. BLEAH is it ugly! - wow steel walls, classic beauty.

Let's petition Christie to put his money where his mouth is and ...or better yet, put that money toward education.

State sees November start for construction of 'Empty Sky' 9/11 memorial at Liberty State Park in Jersey City

Friday, September 03, 2010
By BRETT WILSHE
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

It's just a mound of dirt for now, but the start of construction on the "Empty Sky" 9/11 memorial at Liberty State Park in Jersey City is only a couple of months away despite budget cutbacks and continued opposition, officials said this week.

Andy Pratt, spokesman for the state Department of the Treasury, said the state plans to put out bids for construction of the memorial's two congruent walls in late October, with actual construction slated to begin in November.

Pratt said the deadline for the memorial's completion is next August - just before the 10th anniversary of the September 11th attacks.

"We're obviously working on a very tight deadline," Pratt said.

Money is tight, too. While the original design came with a $23 million price tag, Pratt says the current budget is closer to $13 million, with $6 million coming from the state and the rest from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

The memorial will consist of two steel-plated walls that form a walkway to the Hudson River. Each wall will be 30 feet high and 200 feet long to give visitors the feeling of walking between the World Trade Center towers.

The walls will be visually aligned with where the Twin Towers once stood.

Along the interior, the names of the victims from New Jersey who died on 9/11 will be engraved in the steel. However, the tighter budget forced some cost-saving architectural changes in the design.

"The price of steel was certainly a sticking factor," Pratt said, noting that the steel finish will now only cover the interior of the memorial, while the rest of the surface areas will be architecturally finished concrete. The other changes, he said, will most likely go unnoticed to the eye.

Empty Sky is the product of the New Jersey 9/11 Memorial Foundation, a volunteer group dedicated to building the memorial.

E. Betzy Parks, a board member of the foundation, expressed satisfaction with the design and its progress.

"The Parks' family perspective is that we are certain when this Empty Sky memorial is built it will do justice to both the memory of those who lost their lives and to the majesty of Liberty State Park," said Parks, who lost a brother on 9/11.

The nonprofit Friends of Liberty State Park has slammed the planned memorial for obstructing views of the Manhattan skyline.

"It's wrong to destroy one of the most important urban skylines in the world," Friends president Sam Pesin said, adding that there is an alternative spot next to the park's Grove of Remembrance memorial."

Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy has stood with the FOLSP on this issue.

I was at LSP today with out-of-town friends, and we walked by the site of this memorial. They took one look at the plans (on that little sign) and said, unprompted, "who comes to a waterfront park to look at walls?! this is a terrible idea!"

I agree.

Appeals court rules against Friends of LSP in 9/11 memorial fight

By The Jersey Journal
November 23, 2009, 9:38PM


Construction in May of the hill where the Empty Sky memorial will sit at the foot of Audrey Zapp Drive at Liberty State Park in Jersey City.The nonprofit Friends of Liberty State Park has lost a court challenge to prevent the state's planned 9/11 memorial from being built along the park's waterfront.

An appeals court ruled yesterday that the group's petition wasn't filed in a timely manner.

"It's disappointing they (the court) didn't evaluate the substantive issues in the case," said Cynthia Hadjiyannis, the organization's lawyer. "It's an important case."

The group had argued that the state Department of Environmental Protection did not allow sufficient public input on the project and that the "Empty Sky" memorial would blocks views of Ground Zero and the Manhattan skyline.

"It's definitely in the wrong place," said Sam Pesin, president of the group. "Re-locating this memorial is the best solution."

The challenge to the DEP permit was filed in March 2007.

The court ruled that challenge should have been filed within 45 days of the state obtaining permits to start construction. The state obtained permits on May 5, 2005.

The court also stated that the challenge wasn't filed in a reasonable time frame after citizens should have realized the memorial was being built.

Hadjiyannis said last night that the group had no way of knowing when the state obtained permits, adding yesterday's ruling might be appealed to the state Supreme Court.

The "Empty Sky" memorial will consist of two 30-foot high, 200-foot long stainless steel walls.

The walls will be engraved with the names of the roughly 750 9/11 victims from New Jersey, said E. Betzy Parks, spokeswoman for the 9/11 Memorial Organization.

The memorial is in its third phase of construction and the walls will be erected soon, Parks said.

'Empty Sky' to be discussed on The Weekly Show

By Sarah Rahman
The Jersey Journal
October 27, 2009, 3:39PM

The Weekly, a New Jersey-based television show hosted by Jersey City's own Pat O'Melia, will air this Thursday, October 29, at 6 p.m. on channel 18 and on Cablevision and channel 190 on Comcast at 7 p.m. in Bayonne.

This week's show will discuss the "Empty Sky" September 11 memorial with Hudson County native Betzy Parks, whose brother was killed in the 9/11 attacks.

The non-profit foundation that memorializes the nearly 800 victims from New Jersey killed has faced some controversy in the past. The memorial, which will consist of 30-foot high walls on Liberty State Park, was opposed by The Friends of Liberty State Park, arguing that it would block views of ground zero.

The show will air for 26 minutes without commercial interruptions.

To view the weekly show at another time, visit http://www.patsshows.com or http://www.nj911memorial.org to watch an embedded version.

Our state government deceived the public. Our government took permits out that excluded public hearings. The permit was similar to replacing a bench or something small. If it took out the proper permits then there would have been public hearings before a design was selected. Government should not be in the business of deceiving the public. I appaud this lawsuit.

Thanks for letting me know that this is really not an important issue in a really condescending and uninformed manner.

It has been an important issue for years now. And much to your surprise, it's not mutually exclusive to the other issues surrounding Jersey City. Not that one cannot address multiple issues, anyway.

It is about accountability of elected officials and transparency of government. Much like taking the Mayor of J.C. to task, Governor Corzine completely ignores the requests of his electorate, many of which are completely outspoken on this issue and completely disagree with your assertion. In other words, many folks who care are now voting with their checkbooks for a good cause.

The Governor has his own agenda/initiative to drive home without ANY public input. The descision to build rests squarely in his lap. Hence the lawsuit initiaited by the Friends of LSP, using charitable contributions, i.e. not tax dollars.

There are already 9/11 memorials in Newport and Exchange Place as well as Bayonne and in LSP park itself, ALREADY. Hudson County is the most densely populated and "ungreen" county in the Garden State. What little green space there is, it is being encroached upon. The mound of dirt placed there does look ugly. Before the structure is build, it has already blocked out the skyline as evident when entering the park.

This is so far down the list of things that need attention in Jersey City..... It's too small to ruin the skyline, it was picked (for better or worse) by victims families, and construction has already started. It certainly is not the 'vagina monument' in Bayonne. Waste of money to challenge legally at this point. To add Corzine into the mix is just reaching.........

Give it up and pay attention to the really important issues going on around you.

Friends of Liberty State Park has been spending $$$ for legal defense to keep the memorial out of Liberty State Park. This has been their initiative and the chief opponent ultimately is Governor Corzine who refuses to consider the feedback by those whom reside in Jersey City (sound familiar).

Quote:


What you are missing is that they DIDN'T keep the marina out and they BARELY kept the golf course out.

The private marina that keeps encroaching on the park is a blight!

FOLSP may be different from when I joined at its inception..if so I applaud them. But when I joined they did what the developers TOLD THEM TO. THis was interpreted by a state representative present at every meeting.
Right Audrey?