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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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I too have joined the cleanup crew and like many others, I don't hesitate to pick up things in the park in the meantime. I am reluctant to do this around the BB court however, and will have mixed feeling doing this even as part of the cleaning crew. My impression is that the kids seeing that will have no reason to change their behavior. Some incentive needs to be attached.

As for the stick one might think of systematically redistributing the trash ON the BB court every night - OK, just joking. Or stopping the games in the middle to cleanup - and asking them to join the crew. At least that would force people to interact which might very well be a factor here, but the impact might be limited due to the short-time interaction. Consistent push however can work sometime, as long as the work and message remains the same and is fact-oriented so people can feel treated fairly.

As for the carrot, am I misguided in not seeing a fountain at the court ? It seems to me that a substantial amount of this trash is made of plastic bottles that the players bring and "dispose off". If they could refill cheaply they might like the free ride and hence reduce the amount of garbage. Otherwise, like others I can only think of a preferably sport-originated authoritative figure to change this.

Yes the BB court is here to stay...

Posted on: 2010/6/6 15:51
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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Amy wrote:
As stated earlier in this thread, on Saturday 6/5 at 9 am there was a meeting at the gazebo in HP to organize a regular clean-up effort. I wasn't one of the organizers, but I attended the meeting. Each of us filled out a form with our contact information. They're asking for a minimum commitment of one day per month of maybe 30 minutes of clean-up time. Can one of the organizers please put info here about who to contact, in case anyone else wants to volunteer?

I still have hope that someone will organize an effort to communicate with the basketball players about participating in keeping the park clean. As was already stated here, complaining on a message board won't do much to solve the problem. I'd rather have someone clean up the court (including me) than not have a court at all simply because it gets trashed.


My wife and I signed up as well. But having a group of people clean up after other people on a daily basis should be the last resort.

Nothing is going to change, unless there is some kind of authority presence in the park enforcing laws.

Simply cleaning up after others is not a solution to the problem.

Posted on: 2010/6/6 15:27
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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As stated earlier in this thread, on Saturday 6/5 at 9 am there was a meeting at the gazebo in HP to organize a regular clean-up effort. I wasn't one of the organizers, but I attended the meeting. Each of us filled out a form with our contact information. They're asking for a minimum commitment of one day per month of maybe 30 minutes of clean-up time. Can one of the organizers please put info here about who to contact, in case anyone else wants to volunteer?

I still have hope that someone will organize an effort to communicate with the basketball players about participating in keeping the park clean. As was already stated here, complaining on a message board won't do much to solve the problem. I'd rather have someone clean up the court (including me) than not have a court at all simply because it gets trashed.

Posted on: 2010/6/6 15:13
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I have and will pick up trash in the park from time to time as I walk my dog. I will not pick up the trash left by able-bodied young people as they continue to play their games just steps away. You can put a dozen garbage cans there and they will still trash the area. Yes, it's true, I told you so. A basketball court in that park? BAD IDEA. That area would make an excellent community garden though.

Posted on: 2010/6/6 14:38
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No one in particular should necessarily feel obligated to clean the park. But if you're not going to take ownership of ANY area of the park, there's no value in trashing your neighbors who want to, nor continuously complain about every gum wrapper and gatorade bottle you see on the ground. Negative energy does not advance anything. I'm sure that most neighbors could comment on at least one component of the park they don't like. Still the overwhelming majority of people have expressed great appreciation for the outcome and are thrilled with it. I heard one constituent from the Van Vorst Park neighborhood say Hamilton Park reminds her of Savannah, GA. Other neighbors commented on how much bigger it looks with the new design, which makes the lawn areas look bigger. I enjoy seeing people take their coffee and paper in the early morning hours. Also, impressive are the folks who play tennis super early in the am. The benefits go on and on.

Posted on: 2010/6/6 14:28
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downright wrote:

It's just infuriating to me, that over the years, the bb court was always a problem, and yet through the renovation, this problem could have been solved.

Should the people who spoke out against the bb court be responsible for helping clean up the mess that is left there day after day? I don't think so.


I understand your frustration I really do but the fact that the BB courts are there is just not going to change. Your thought process if applied to diffrent scenarios in life would spell fail. Would it make you less frustrated to sit back and watch it be totally trashed and say TOLD YOU SO? They are being trashed by kids. We are adults. I dont live on that side of the park but I cant stand to see what is being done. The more we sit on our computers and bitch about it the more frustrated we become and the more trashed that area of the park becomes. I am not good at organization when it comes to things like this. I need to be told when,where, and what to do.
Someone please take the lead.

Posted on: 2010/6/6 14:24
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I didn't make the meeting either. Because of my odd work schedule and other commitments I probably won't be able to participate in an organized clean up effort. However, I have picked up a few nights in various areas of the park including both the BB Court and the children's area.

I am sure anyone who cannot participate in an organized effort is welcome to clean up in the park as they can.

Any effort will be valuable and appreciated.

There's no point of arguing with the losers on this site who do nothing but rank on their neighbors who have made efforts to improve the neighborhood.

It's better to take action and take care of this gem we are uniquely fortunate to have.


It's just infuriating to me, that over the years, the bb court was always a problem, and yet through the renovation, this problem could have been solved.

Should the people who spoke out against the bb court be responsible for helping clean up the mess that is left there day after day? I don't think so.

Posted on: 2010/6/6 14:04
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I didn't make the meeting either. Because of my odd work schedule and other commitments I probably won't be able to participate in an organized clean up effort. However, I have picked up a few nights in various areas of the park including both the BB Court and the children's area.

I am sure anyone who cannot participate in an organized effort is welcome to clean up in the park as they can.

Any effort will be valuable and appreciated.

There's no point of arguing with the losers on this site who do nothing but rank on their neighbors who have made efforts to improve the neighborhood.

It's better to take action and take care of this gem we are uniquely fortunate to have.

Posted on: 2010/6/6 13:46
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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The basketball court was absolutely trashed again tonight. On matter of principle I cannot clean up after those people.
Why are there no signs posted or an officer writing tickets? Time to end the mis-directed hysteria aimed at dog-owners and start a movement to close that court. It is a big open sore on the new park. Shameful.


"Hysteria aimed at dog-owners"? What are you talking about? Please explain.


I think what Vigilante is trying to say is that dog owners have been blamed for years for the condition of the park and leaving it a mess. I understand his direction but it really does not solve the problem. I missed the meeting yesterday beacuse of work. Could someone tell me if we have a plan yet?
I have said this before and I will say it again.... If we do not become part of the solution we become part of the problem. Please tell me how I can help I hate seeing that part of the park trashed.

Posted on: 2010/6/6 13:29
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Vigilante wrote:
The basketball court was absolutely trashed again tonight. On matter of principle I cannot clean up after those people.
Why are there no signs posted or an officer writing tickets? Time to end the mis-directed hysteria aimed at dog-owners and start a movement to close that court. It is a big open sore on the new park. Shameful.


"Hysteria aimed at dog-owners"? What are you talking about? Please explain.

Posted on: 2010/6/6 5:25
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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Vigilante wrote:
The basketball court was absolutely trashed again tonight. On matter of principle I cannot clean up after those people.
Why are there no signs posted or an officer writing tickets? Time to end the mis-directed hysteria aimed at dog-owners and start a movement to close that court. It is a big open sore on the new park. Shameful.


I cannot believe how much garbage is around the bb court right now.

Posted on: 2010/6/6 2:47
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The basketball court was absolutely trashed again tonight. On matter of principle I cannot clean up after those people.
Why are there no signs posted or an officer writing tickets? Time to end the mis-directed hysteria aimed at dog-owners and start a movement to close that court. It is a big open sore on the new park. Shameful.

Posted on: 2010/6/6 2:11
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HAMILTON PARK USERS -- WE NEED YOU!

ARE YOU THRILLED WITH THE PARK RENOVATION BUT CONCERNED ABOUT THE TRASH PROBLEM?

A GROUP OF JERSEY CITY RESIDENTS ARE ORGANIZING A VOLUNTEER CLEANUP PROGRAM TO HELP KEEP OUR PARK SPECTACULAR!

IF YOU HAVE 30 MINUTES A MONTH TO SPARE - YOU CAN HELP!

JOIN US AT THE GAZEBO:
9 AM
SATURDAY, JUNE 5TH

...FOR 10 MINUTES TO DISCUSS THE PROGRAM. IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT, CHECK OUT THE HAMILTON PARK NOTICE BOARD FOR MORE DETAILS, OR SUBSCRIBE TO THE HPNA E-MAIL LIST: www.hpnajc.blogspot.com



Prevention and education will also be discussed.


Sorry for the CAPS :)

Posted on: 2010/6/4 18:11
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Waver wrote:
We don't go to Central Park, Liberty State Park, VV Park, etc. and litter & make late night noise. It is a matter of education & enforcement, not a matter of demographics or geography.


Education? Doubt that. Enforcement would be nice for once though.

Posted on: 2010/6/4 17:55
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My problem with most complaints on this thread has been exactly that. I get that there is a litter problem and late night noise issues, but the language used here like hooligans, undesirables, kids from other neighborhoods, etc. urks me to no end.


The thing about people from other neighborhoods using the park is that they do not have the same vested interest in keeping the park clean. And just like I would not want to disturb my neighbors late at night, they do not care since they are not our neighbors.


We don't go to Central Park, Liberty State Park, VV Park, etc. and litter & make late night noise. It is a matter of education & enforcement, not a matter of demographics or geography.

Posted on: 2010/6/4 17:37
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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PubliusIII wrote:
Well, maybe I misconstrued it, but I thought I detected a bias against people not living directly around the park, e.g. black kids from Holland Gardens, and also a sense that only stakeholders, those right in the immediate environs of the park had standing to opine. I am happy to think I am wrong and that my discolure was extraneous.


My problem with most complaints on this thread has been exactly that. I get that there is a litter problem and late night noise issues, but the language used here like hooligans, undesirables, kids from other neighborhoods, etc. urks me to no end.



I find that the supporters of the BB court appear the most racist. They reason that if the "kids" don't have basketball then they will be out and about mugging and killing people. As if they only have those two choices! Now that is racism!
BTW? Kudos to Phil Rivo and Dave for cleaning up last night and emptying the garbage cans. It's a shame that residents must clean up after other people.


I would also have a huge problem with someone saying that the basketball players would be out muggling & killing people if they weren't plyaing basketball. Please, don't put words in my mouth.

Yes, a big applause to Phil & Dave. And other park goers whom I've witnessed picking up trash.

Posted on: 2010/6/4 17:26
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Waver wrote:
My problem with most complaints on this thread has been exactly that. I get that there is a litter problem and late night noise issues, but the language used here like hooligans, undesirables, kids from other neighborhoods, etc. urks me to no end.


The thing about people from other neighborhoods using the park is that they do not have the same vested interest in keeping the park clean. And just like I would not want to disturb my neighbors late at night, they do not care since they are not our neighbors.

Posted on: 2010/6/4 17:14
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PubliusIII wrote:
Well, maybe I misconstrued it, but I thought I detected a bias against people not living directly around the park, e.g. black kids from Holland Gardens, and also a sense that only stakeholders, those right in the immediate environs of the park had standing to opine. I am happy to think I am wrong and that my discolure was extraneous.


My problem with most complaints on this thread has been exactly that. I get that there is a litter problem and late night noise issues, but the language used here like hooligans, undesirables, kids from other neighborhoods, etc. urks me to no end.



I find that the supporters of the BB court appear the most racist. They reason that if the "kids" don't have basketball then they will be out and about mugging and killing people. As if they only have those two choices! Now that is racism!
BTW? Kudos to Phil Rivo and Dave for cleaning up last night and emptying the garbage cans. It's a shame that residents must clean up after other people.

Posted on: 2010/6/4 17:06
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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PubliusIII wrote:
Well, maybe I misconstrued it, but I thought I detected a bias against people not living directly around the park, e.g. black kids from Holland Gardens, and also a sense that only stakeholders, those right in the immediate environs of the park had standing to opine. I am happy to think I am wrong and that my discolure was extraneous.


My problem with most complaints on this thread has been exactly that. I get that there is a litter problem and late night noise issues, but the language used here like hooligans, undesirables, kids from other neighborhoods, etc. urks me to no end.

Posted on: 2010/6/4 16:47
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There is going to be a meeting to form a valunteer clean up group at 9AM this Saturday at the gazebo.

Posted on: 2010/6/4 16:42
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The only point about people using the basketball court late at night, when they don't live in the area is that they possibly do not care about disturbing people and they do not care about what kind of condition they leave the basketball court in because they do not live in the neighborhood.

I live right on the park. I know many of the people who live in the area. Would I go out in the middle of the night and start yelling and screaming? No...because I live here and I know the people who I would be disturbing. Someone who lives in a completely different area would not have the same reservations that I have.


It's funny, if you substitute "Music Box Cafe" for "basketball court" your statement still works perfectly! We all have crosses to bear and much of it involves people who aren't from our community. It's difficult dealing with people who don't give a crap, particularly when the people charged with enforcing the laws don't either....because most of THEM also aren't part of the community!

Posted on: 2010/6/3 19:23
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linky wrote:
I take back anything I said about the basketball court situation being exaggerated. I went past the eastern side of the courts last night, and that area of the park is totally littered with garbage.

I was wrong. Last night, the litter in that area looked worse than it was before the park was renovated.

HPNA is trying to get a list of volunteers to help clean up the litter.


Okay, this is a total stretch and little "alb" circa '08, but maybe if the local high schools could get involved and get the kids to help out with the picking up with the litter the problem might eventually chill because the kids will WANT TO keep it clean. I know in NYC students have to volunteer a certain # of hours per semester as a requirement. I'm not sure if that is true in JC, but it would be a great way to clean up the place, get the kids their hours, and teach them responsibility in regards to community and public spaces.

And I know, it's not just kids making the mess...

Posted on: 2010/6/3 18:42
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PubliusIII wrote:
Well, maybe I misconstrued it, but I thought I detected a bias against people not living directly around the park, e.g. black kids from Holland Gardens, and also a sense that only stakeholders, those right in the immediate environs of the park had standing to opine. I am happy to think I am wrong and that my discolure was extraneous.


It sounded like you were talking about moving here unless you were intending on leaving your house and being homeless in the park. The ultimate arbiter about who is to opine would seem to be the webmaster. But if you are right, (and I am wrong) even he will answer to a higher authority, one day.

It's all a pecking order; folks with kids at the top, then the dog owners, then people living close by and then everybody else. Although really it's about who is the loudest vessel.
Still, it's a bit rich when people who come from afar or are only occasional users try to lecture those that live close by to be more tolerant when they do not experience the inconveniences on a daily ( or more accurately nightly ) basis.

Posted on: 2010/6/3 17:18
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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Well, maybe I misconstrued it, but I thought I detected a bias against people not living directly around the park, e.g. black kids from Holland Gardens, and also a sense that only stakeholders, those right in the immediate environs of the park had standing to opine. I am happy to think I am wrong and that my discolure was extraneous.


I'm sure that bias does exist.

But for the people who live right by the basketball court, it is simply a matter of having to deal with yelling, screaming, cursing and a bouncing ball, at all hours of the night. No matter who is causing the disturbance, that's a problem.

The only point about people using the basketball court late at night, when they don't live in the area is that they possibly do not care about disturbing people and they do not care about what kind of condition they leave the basketball court in because they do not live in the neighborhood.

I live right on the park. I know many of the people who live in the area. Would I go out in the middle of the night and start yelling and screaming? No...because I live here and I know the people who I would be disturbing. Someone who lives in a completely different area would not have the same reservations that I have.

Posted on: 2010/6/3 17:08
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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I take back anything I said about the basketball court situation being exaggerated. I went past the eastern side of the courts last night, and that area of the park is totally littered with garbage.

I was wrong. Last night, the litter in that area looked worse than it was before the park was renovated.

HPNA is trying to get a list of volunteers to help clean up the litter.

Posted on: 2010/6/3 16:58
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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Well, maybe I misconstrued it, but I thought I detected a bias against people not living directly around the park, e.g. black kids from Holland Gardens, and also a sense that only stakeholders, those right in the immediate environs of the park had standing to opine. I am happy to think I am wrong and that my discolure was extraneous.

Posted on: 2010/6/3 16:45
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Yeah I took a walk last night around 8pm through our beautiful new park. The litter surrounding the basketball courts was intense - really gross!

Posted on: 2010/6/3 16:19
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PubliusIII wrote:
I'll swap my house on Pacific and Communipau for anyone who is burdened by living on Hamilton Park (and before someone objects to my coming in to the neighborhood, my kids live there with their x, I lived there for five years, and my father and uncles went to St. Michaels and practiced track in the park in the 1930s). There is nothing better than the experience of a free public basketball court. It is a true democracy.


Why would anyone object to you coming into the HP neighborhood? And why would the facts you state make any difference to that?

I think there are some people here that disagree about whether there is anything better than a free public basketball court, but since it was not a voting option to keep it or lose it, we will never know if it is true democracy.

[I will have to trade religious barbs with you another time as it seems my earlier response and your reply have been expunged.]

Posted on: 2010/6/3 16:01
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And also, how is the Holland Gardens housing complex part of Hamilton Park? Maybe they should find another basketball court to play at, like the one they have in the middle of the housing complex or the 2 right next door.

Maybe I'd like to play basketball every once in a while. Do you think they'd "let me?"

Posted on: 2010/6/3 15:26
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Oh, actually I have a portable hoop in front of my house. The neighbors do not seem to mind (at least when asked they said they liked the neighborhood feel it creates). There was, in fact a problem of kids coming by and playing after dark but they were respectful pretty much when I told them not after dark. The us vs. them mentality is not neighborly or productive. Didn't know they had courts over at Holland gardens, but you know they won't look anything like the Hamilton Park courts.

Posted on: 2010/6/3 15:22
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