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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outside
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nasal_avenger wrote:
I would imagine most courts would strike this down. I know the ACLU has been successful at helping citizens fight curfews in the past. It saddens me that Paterson's leaders feel it is acceptable to punish everyone for in their entire town instead of coming up with a more effective crimefighting plan. What's even worse is that some residents support them. To me, trading liberty for perceived security (as if a curfew will stop black market activity) just isn't worth it.

I agree

Posted on: 2009/8/21 22:28
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outside
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I would imagine most courts would strike this down. I know the ACLU has been successful at helping citizens fight curfews in the past. It saddens me that Paterson's leaders feel it is acceptable to punish everyone for in their entire town instead of coming up with a more effective crimefighting plan. What's even worse is that some residents support them. To me, trading liberty for perceived security (as if a curfew will stop black market activity) just isn't worth it.

Posted on: 2009/8/21 17:13
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outside
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nasal_avenger wrote:
Ummm....what about the right to peaceably assemble?

I'd like more information on this. It would be a great thing to fight in court. I remember years ago some cops in J.C. especially in the Heights would question the teens roaming about or loitering in front of properties. Two friends wearing leather jackets standing off the corner on the north end of the Heights were scolded by this old woman for "hanging out", and when I was 15 this new comer in the neighborhood threatened to belt me and my friends in the teeth if we didn't move away from "his" property. Later on that said person was put in a position where he could have encountered a complicated situation with a city inspector, and some sticky business delays. Everything went smooth for him but you never know who holds the ace down the road.

Posted on: 2009/8/21 16:51
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outside
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Ummm....what about the right to peaceably assemble?

Posted on: 2009/8/21 14:14
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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Clifton_Hanger wrote:
Lucky's is on Coles and Second. I think some if not most of the "loitering" at some of these bars has to do with the smoking bans...

Unless you close the bars altogether or change the smoking bans inside, people who choose to smoke are going to be outside "loitering."


People accomplish this type of "loitering" a lot quicker in the winter. So perhaps, in the summertime they are throwing a little of actual loitering into the mix with their cigarettes. Also, how do you define the regular hangouts outside the bar at closing? Why is it so hard to say goodbye people, you'll reunite for another night of drinking in a mere 20 hours!

Posted on: 2009/8/20 14:49
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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Lucky's is on Coles and Second. I think some if not most of the "loitering" at some of these bars has to do with the smoking bans...

Unless you close the bars altogether or change the smoking bans inside, people who choose to smoke are going to be outside "loitering."

Posted on: 2009/8/20 14:42
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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flying_the_flannel wrote:
Lucky 7's has got to have some of the most annoying patrons I have ever experienced. If I step foot in there, I bite my tongue and remind myself "stay home, drink alone."


A few quick questions. First off where is Lucky 7's , and second what is the clientele like ?


Lucky's is on the corner of Coles and 1st. Clientele smells like a foot locker.

Posted on: 2009/8/20 14:03
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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GrovePath wrote:
I would just be happy if they could ban school kids from going out of the school at lunchtime.


I agree, there is no reason why kids cannot stay inside school and eat lunch. There are perfectly good (and I am not refering to the nutritious lunch) cafeterias inside these schools. When I was in high school we were not allowed to leave the building. There may be fights but at least they will have security available to break them up. When the kids are out for lunch, who is there to stop the fights the crossing guards?

If the school can house them during their training sessions I'm sure the school can contain them during feeding time. It's funny while watching a documentary on those audience participating talk shows (eg. J.Springer)I see that the apple does not fall far from the vine. The reason why the students act unruly and impulsive to each other as well as those around them is because they are mimicking their parent's social behavior.

Posted on: 2009/8/20 13:22
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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GrovePath wrote:
I would just be happy if they could ban school kids from going out of the school at lunchtime.


I agree with this 1000% They trash our neighborhoods and use our front stoops as dining areas/places to roll blunts. Monmouth St gets overrun by the linchtime crowds and a few large fights have broken out. The kids need to stay in school for lunch or smaller groups, more controlable
groups should be let out in a time staggered fashion.

Try preaching this to the Hilltop Association. They have been having trouble with Dickinson H.S. during lunchtime for years now. Cops patrol the area during these reseses. Even Chuck Epps the Superintendent of schools was pleading with the block association stating "I can't do it alone I need your help" Obviously his hands were tied, with his salary you would think he could part the high seas.


The Hilltop Association has been battling this since the early 1980's. Richard Boggiano, who is a former police officer, Hilltop resident, and passionate about the quality of life in this neighborhood, was the driving force behind getting a more proactive police presence in the area, but not a closed.

A closed lunch for a school with 2000 kids is just not going to happen right now without having four lunch periods that service 500 kids during each sitting. It is also difficult to secure the school grounds to the point where kids cannot leave and are essentially locked up.

The "kids in the hall" will always find a way to get out of school and cause problems.

Posted on: 2009/8/20 13:13
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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GrovePath wrote:
I would just be happy if they could ban school kids from going out of the school at lunchtime.


I agree, there is no reason why kids cannot stay inside school and eat lunch. There are perfectly good (and I am not refering to the nutritious lunch) cafeterias inside these schools. When I was in high school we were not allowed to leave the building. There may be fights but at least they will have security available to break them up. When the kids are out for lunch, who is there to stop the fights the crossing guards?

Posted on: 2009/8/20 12:41
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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GrovePath wrote:
I would just be happy if they could ban school kids from going out of the school at lunchtime.


I agree with this 1000% They trash our neighborhoods and use our front stoops as dining areas/places to roll blunts. Monmouth St gets overrun by the linchtime crowds and a few large fights have broken out. The kids need to stay in school for lunch or smaller groups, more controlable
groups should be let out in a time staggered fashion.

Try preaching this to the Hilltop Association. They have been having trouble with Dickinson H.S. during lunchtime for years now. Cops patrol the area during these reseses. Even Chuck Epps the Superintendent of schools was pleading with the block association stating "I can't do it alone I need your help" Obviously his hands were tied, with his salary you would think he could part the high seas.

Posted on: 2009/8/20 11:13
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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GnomeGeneral wrote:

And for a "dive bar", they charge some pretty LITM-like prices. $8 for a vodka and cranberry? To drink it in a run-down space that smells like a foot locker? Really?


That's really insulting.... to foot lockers.

Posted on: 2009/8/20 11:01
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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GnomeGeneral wrote:
Add Lamp post, Lucky 7's and the Latin Lounge to that list.


Don't forget to add Indos.


Also I don't get what people are complaining about, especially the city councel member in that video above. It's not like people are banned from leaving their house, just loitering and gathering after midnight. What are you doing just hanging out on the street after midnight? If you don't like it move.

Posted on: 2009/8/20 10:32
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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Posted on: 2009/8/20 8:15
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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Remember, remember, the Fifth of November.

Posted on: 2009/8/20 4:52
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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flying_the_flannel wrote:
Lucky 7's has got to have some of the most annoying patrons I have ever experienced. If I step foot in there, I bite my tongue and remind myself "stay home, drink alone."


A few quick questions. First off where is Lucky 7's , and second what is the clientele like ?

Posted on: 2009/8/20 1:14
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outside
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My sympathies to all of you in coping with your dire neighborhood situation regarding noise, trash, gangs, street fights, disrepectful students, loitering and illegal activities. I am grateful I don’t have to contend with all of that. You might want to look further into what the mayor describes as a business curfew ordinance that City Council implemented over a year and half ago.

Posted on: 2009/8/20 0:33
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outside
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Hahahahahaha, oh god the smell of that place is nauseating.

Once in a while the Lamp Post smells, too, because the basement gets so god damned damp. Wednesday night bartender will burn incense at the beginning of her shift.

Posted on: 2009/8/19 14:41
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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flying_the_flannel wrote:
Lucky 7's has got to have some of the most annoying patrons I have ever experienced. If I step foot in there, I bite my tongue and remind myself "stay home, drink alone."


And for a "dive bar", they charge some pretty LITM-like prices. $8 for a vodka and cranberry? To drink it in a run-down space that smells like a foot locker? Really?

Posted on: 2009/8/19 14:37
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outside
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Lucky 7's has got to have some of the most annoying patrons I have ever experienced. If I step foot in there, I bite my tongue and remind myself "stay home, drink alone."

Posted on: 2009/8/19 14:15
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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wrensdad wrote:
That would be excellent! Maybe it would help with the problems at Guillo's on Coles. That bar brings in street fights, gangs, and who knows what. The neighborhood has had enough and would appreciate anything that would help control this.


The Barge Bar on Monmouth is in dire need of regulation like this. Fights, loitering and rowdy groups of thugs tend to hang out in front creating a rather intimidating situation for people walking down Monmouth. They act like they own the block, walk around outside with open alcohol containers and whoot and hollar untill 2-3am. The loitering and illegal activity in front of this bar must stop!!!


Add Lamp post, Lucky 7's and the Latin Lounge to that list.

Posted on: 2009/8/19 14:07
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outside
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wrensdad wrote:
That would be excellent! Maybe it would help with the problems at Guillo's on Coles. That bar brings in street fights, gangs, and who knows what. The neighborhood has had enough and would appreciate anything that would help control this.


The Barge Bar on Monmouth is in dire need of regulation like this. Fights, loitering and rowdy groups of thugs tend to hang out in front creating a rather intimidating situation for people walking down Monmouth. They act like they own the block, walk around outside with open alcohol containers and whoot and hollar untill 2-3am. The loitering and illegal activity in front of this bar must stop!!!

Posted on: 2009/8/19 14:05
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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GrovePath wrote:
I would just be happy if they could ban school kids from going out of the school at lunchtime.


I agree with this 1000% They trash our neighborhoods and use our front stoops as dining areas/places to roll blunts. Monmouth St gets overrun by the linchtime crowds and a few large fights have broken out. The kids need to stay in school for lunch or smaller groups, more controlable
groups should be let out in a time staggered fashion.

Posted on: 2009/8/19 13:59
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outside
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That would be excellent! Maybe it would help with the problems at Guillo's on Coles. That bar brings in street fights, gangs, and who knows what. The neighborhood has had enough and would appreciate anything that would help control this.

Posted on: 2009/8/19 13:13
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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From the Mayor’s State of the City Address on February 19, 2008:


cityofjerseycity.com/uploadedFiles/Public_Notices/Press_Releases/State%20of%20the%20City%20Address.pdf


Tonight I report to you that we are well on our way to achieving that goal. For two years in a row, crime in Jersey City has dropped dramatically in all categories. We have hired scores of new police officers. We have expanded the use of crime surveillance cameras. We have implemented a business curfew ordinance to enhance the safety of our neighborhoods. We have instituted a gang task force and the crime fighting method called CompStat, which directs police attention to where crime occurs.


To be honest, I’ve not noticed any signs of a curfew in my neighborhood (Monticello Avenue area). Some businesses close around 6:00 and others between 10:00 and 11:00 in the evening. There are still people, mostly young, walking in the area after the closures. Does anyone know the details of this ordinance? It seems ineffective and/or ignored.


Posted on: 2009/8/19 12:59
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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I would just be happy if they could ban school kids from going out of the school at lunchtime.

Posted on: 2009/8/19 12:44
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Re: NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outs
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"The ordinance bars people from loitering or gathering outside during the curfew. It would not apply for those in transit or those waiting for mass transit or cabs."

Brilliant, can we have some of that?

Posted on: 2009/8/19 12:35
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NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings -bars even adults from loitering or gathering outside
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NJ city considers curfew in wake of shootings

The Associated Press

PATERSON, N.J. - One New Jersey city might keep people from gathering on streets overnight as a way to curb violence.

Paterson's City Council is set to vote Tuesday night on a midnight to 7 a.m. curfew. A second vote and public hearing is needed if the ordinance is adopted.

The action comes in the wake of several deadly shootings since late July that happened after midnight.

The ordinance bars people from loitering or gathering outside during the curfew. It would not apply for those in transit or those waiting for mass transit or cabs.

Violators could be fined as much as $2,000 and spend 90 days in jail.

Mayor Joey Torres says the curfew would allow police to question people on the streets.

There have been six homicides in Paterson this year.

Posted on: 2009/8/19 10:26
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