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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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You missed post #101, 105 and 108....Hello?


Yup. Sue me.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 20:30
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Bogart wrote:
Quote:

wibbit wrote:
when defining downtown, i consider those 3 locations:
-newport
-paulus hook
-grove


Hello?

Hamilton Square


You missed post #101, 105 and 108....Hello?

Posted on: 2009/7/22 17:35
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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I had hoped Fulop would run for Mayor. I would have voted for him.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 17:31
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Indomitus wrote:

Sorry. Everyone has a right to complain. It's enshrined in the First Amendment.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Bergen Hill, Lafayette, Greenville, The Heights... they have bigger problems and should be more vocal politically, demand more from the City, expect more from their community, and do more for themselves.

But, that's quite a challenge. Unfortunately, they may speak, vote, expect, and do less as a result.Quote:


Alan, speaking only for myself and my family, we do vote. And considering only 20 or 30 % of all of Jersey City voters came out at the last very important city election, it seems many people have given up. But there is something that you may overlook: The "look who's doing the complaining" factor. I think a part of the problem is the city is just more responsive to certain sectors, that the attitude of "who pays more rent" also pervades the city's responses in some situations. It makes it easier to write off certain areas because everyone knows "they're all just - fill in the blank" and makes it easier overlook the decent folks of the area, after all "you know how they are".

A true story for you: Many years ago there was a tenant interim lease program building on our block which developed "structural problems" The city gave the block association 2 options - either take a soup kitchen on the ground floor (there was - and is still - one 2 blocks away) and the "repairs" would be made or take a hole in the ground where the building used to stand. We protested against the soup kitchen, the tenants were removed, the building demolished and we ended up with the hole in the ground which was paved over with black top. It is difficult sometimes not to lose hope.


I think you've analyzed the scenario quite well, and your personal anecdote exemplifies the brokenness of the system.

Voter turnout is low county-wide. Fortunately, there are reformers doing legal and advocacy work external to the political system, as well as reformists sentiments within both parties... believe it or not. But, their primary goal is not political action, but simply GOTV once per year.

As to the "look who's doing the complaining" factor, there's something to that as well. Not every resident is as vocal or politically astute, but more importantly, not every voice... whether it navigates the channels as a sophisticate or not... is a voice City Hall will listen to.

Down in 07302, in general I think folks think Fulop is their dude.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 17:17
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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"Crime WAS Down" is the new mantra.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 17:09
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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wibbit wrote:
when defining downtown, i consider those 3 locations:
-newport
-paulus hook
-grove


Hello?

Hamilton Square

Posted on: 2009/7/22 17:02
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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But crime is down, I've heard from reliable and colorful mailers.


Crime statistics are down because at every step victims are encouraged to not make a report.

Sometimes this encouragement can be quite vigorous.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 15:57
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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ianmac47 wrote:
It seems the bigger issue here is that beginning two years ago there were a series of somewhat random assaults and muggings and car break-ins in and around the downtown. These were at first attributed to a summer crime wave.

Then there were the emergence of everybody's favorite "wolf packs" roaming around the streets, and these unruly teens became the scapegoat for all the crimes in the downtown, even as assaults and muggings began moving eastward from the western end of the downtown to "safe" streets.

But crime is down, I've heard from reliable and colorful mailers.

This past year there have been more reports of stickups and robberies, now with guns, followed by two high profile shoot outs with police. So are we seeing a summer crime wave or isolated teenage angst or something bigger like a trend towards increased crime that certain elected officials are not addressing?

I voted for Levin.



As did I!!!

Posted on: 2009/7/22 15:25
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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In fact, wub, I did. I lived in Jackson Heights (that's in Queens) in the 90s (through the second half of Dinkins and well into Giuliani) and watched it deteriorate rapidly. What was once an Irish/Jewish professional enclave quickly became the landing point for drug importation and the immigration of their tradesmen. I happened to live on a "safe" block, although a kid did get shot in front of my building one night. Just two blocks away? A nightly scene out of Scarface. The editor of el Diario was assassinated in a diner on Roosevelt Ave. four blocks away. Two Colombian gangs had a shoot out in a bar five blocks away that made the national news - six people were killed and dozens injured; it happened in broad daylight.

Crime skyrocketed - not just drugs and related violence, but prostitution as well. Thirteen, fourteen year-old girls standing on corners at all hours of the night near the subway station when just a few years before then it was completely quiet. Not just in Jackson Heights, but in neighboring Corona and Elmhurst. All the drug dealers and hookers you mention that were in NYC in the 80s were in Times Square. They are the ones who moved to my neighborhood in the 90s. While a clean, safe and business-friendly Times Square/midtown is good for tourism and the local economy, sweeping the problems under the rug isn't fixing them. It is you, little wibbish, who doesn't know the first thing you are talking about.

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wibbit wrote:
you seem so out of touch with everything, were you around during the 80s with hookers, drugs, homeless and graffiti all over the place in broad daylight? if you think nyc improved in the 90s because the whole country did and not as a result of hardline active enforcement by the nypd under giuliani, i dont know what else to say to you, other than you are delusional.

And what are you talking about again, with the comment regarding moving the unwanted to queens/brooklyn. I lived in queens at the time, and visited brooklyn often. The area is the same, the good parts like forest hills, bayside, freshmeadow remained very good, while the bad parts such as jamaica/ozone park remained the same. There is no big transformation, unless you count the gentrification in parts of brooklyn.

Seriously get a clue....

Posted on: 2009/7/22 15:23
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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It seems the bigger issue here is that beginning two years ago there were a series of somewhat random assaults and muggings and car break-ins in and around the downtown. These were at first attributed to a summer crime wave.

Then there were the emergence of everybody's favorite "wolf packs" roaming around the streets, and these unruly teens became the scapegoat for all the crimes in the downtown, even as assaults and muggings began moving eastward from the western end of the downtown to "safe" streets.

But crime is down, I've heard from reliable and colorful mailers.

This past year there have been more reports of stickups and robberies, now with guns, followed by two high profile shoot outs with police. So are we seeing a summer crime wave or isolated teenage angst or something bigger like a trend towards increased crime that certain elected officials are not addressing?

I voted for Levin.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 14:35
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Whether it's an acute crime wave that, for whatever reason, is getting lots of media hype, or a continuation of a typical ebb and flow, I see no reason to mitigate the seriousness of the fact that JC has a real problem on its hands. Let's not forget that the 7/21 incident was sparked by a botched robbery ACROSS THE STREET FROM CITY HALL. Granted, it was 4AM, but how brazen are these criminals, now, where even in a location that one would assume would be proliferated with cops, they would still inflicit harm on innocent citizens? And, for the record, I'd have this reaction whether the robbery occurred across from City Hall, or on some desolate street somewhere else in JC. Just trying to make a point that the criminals clearly aren't thinking about getting caught, or what the ramifications are IF they get caught.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 13:56
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Is this really a crime wave, like it happened monday night in Newark (where there are no suspects)? The two shootouts were not aimed at innocent citizens and they happened because the JCPD was able to locate armed robbers in both cases and tried to apprehend them. If the guys last night robbed someone and got away, this would have been just another 5 post "roberry @ such and such street" thread on jclist.

The JCPD responded very fast last night to a robbery and put away for a long time three guys who upgraded their offenses from robbery to attempted man slaughter, destruction of public property, evading police, and a whole bunch of other charges.

Crime exists in Jersey City - no surprise there - but the clear message the JCPD is sending in these two past incidents is that they will get the bad guys. There is always room to improve, but in these two cases the officers involved deserve praise.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 2:54
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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teacher wrote:
Were these black people again? This is an outrage.
Kudos to Worms, we pay more down here, and as such deserve as more cops down here than they have up on Bergan. Crime will go where police presence isn't.
Lord, I have to move to Sweden. Don't worry liberal losers, I am selling, and maybe I will sell my building to some crack heads, to add to the diversity of Grove Street. Enjoy...


I <3 you.



Crime? In Jersey City? Why, I never! NY Magazine said this was the next hip place....what the hell did I move here for??? This is Obama's fault!!!!! LOUD WORDS TYPED ANGRILY IN CAPS!!!!!

Posted on: 2009/7/22 2:33
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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mwa7368 wrote:
Don't forget Hamilton Park.


oh yeah hamilton park is good too, very different ambience than the modern style newport.


and vvp. duh.

but whatever. this whole thread is getting redonk.

live wherever you want. just stay safe. and pray to loki for our city to get through this crappy crime wave.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 2:30
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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tanze_des_lasters wrote:
I am perplexed. I gave a very positive description of myself, where I live and my community involvement and yet you consider me a lowlife. Please re-read my post. If you still agree I should be classified as such, there is something amiss with your way of thinking.

worm wrote:
Quote:
... Please don't lump me in with your hateful rhetoric and go ahead and file me away with Tanze de lasters and other such lowlifes.


Sorry tanze, please, please don't take offense, I was only sarcastically quoting what was said by gnomegeneral about how my tax paying, hardworking neighbors are a bunch of "lowlives".

Quote:
I would rather live in downtown JC than with a bunch of pansy hipsters who stick up for the lowlives of their hood like you do.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 1:44
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Well I am a poster here and I was born and raised in Jersey City, a home owner and tax payer, so guess what not matter where you live it's still Jersey City. People are worried about where the tax dollars are getting spent , well I think it should be spent where it is needed the most.

And if it really matters I grew and live in a nice section of the city, almost nothing happened on my block. People didn't hang out outside at all hours of the day and night and everyone worked. I hardly ever saw a cop drive by and we never complained about it. Our attitude to that was they were where they were needed the most. No point in hanging out in our area if they weren't needed.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 1:36
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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I am perplexed. I gave a very positive description of myself, where I live and my community involvement and yet you consider me a lowlife. Please re-read my post. If you still agree I should be classified as such, there is something amiss with your way of thinking.

worm wrote:
Quote:
... Please don't lump me in with your hateful rhetoric and go ahead and file me away with Tanze de lasters and other such lowlifes.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 1:32
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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jc73 wrote:
UNREAL, thats what comes to mind when I read this site. You people here spend more time arguing about what section of JC is what and where it actually is. Who cares where the lines are drawn, you all live in Jersey City. If you happen to live downtown or up on the hill or in the heights, or sparrow hill. They are all just sections old time dividing lines. You all live in Jersey City.
Last week Five police officers were injured PROTECTING you from the horros of this world, one of which gave his life for. Last night four more officers risked thier lives doing it again. All anyone here can do is take this time to dispute where an incident happened and how many blocks it happened from.

Location, location, location. Joe Piscopo used to say "New Jersey what exit ?" (determining where along the N.J. Turnpike do you live in N.J.) Well in Jersey City it's what section. It has always been this way here in Jersey City and the funny thing is most of the posters haven't even lived here more than ten years. 280 Grove St. still spends all of Jersey City's tax dollars from one big pot. Even the individual ward council members vote on issues outside of their ward including the rise in the tax rate.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 1:29
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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teacher wrote:
Were these black people again? This is an outrage.
Kudos to Worms, we pay more down here, and as such deserve as more cops down here than they have up on Bergan. Crime will go where police presence isn't.
Lord, I have to move to Sweden. Don't worry liberal losers, I am selling, and maybe I will sell my building to some crack heads, to add to the diversity of Grove Street. Enjoy...


Ummmm... if you bothered to read my post, I live in McGinley Square. Please don't lump me in with your hateful rhetoric and go ahead and file me away with Tanze de lasters and other such lowlifes. I don't care if you rent, own, or still live in the basement of your parent's house with your sticky little porn collection and your black lights. You don't deserve more, you deserve as much as me and anyone else in Jersey City. And as far as this being a downtown list, so be it, but then please refrain from posting comments about the Beacon or the five police officers tragically shot in my part of town. Oh wait, I forgot, it's only fair to comment about the rest of the city when you want to trash it.
I must admit, I do try to refrain from posting much on this board anymore. But I have a hard time just sitting back and letting members of the downtown community blatantly attack an area based on all the misinformation you have gathered from here say or the occasional drive through the 'hood.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 1:18
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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UNREAL, thats what comes to mind when I read this site. You people here spend more time arguing about what section of JC is what and where it actually is. Who cares where the lines are drawn, you all live in Jersey City. If you happen to live downtown or up on the hill or in the heights, or sparrow hill. They are all just sections old time dividing lines. You all live in Jersey City.

You take a post like this and spend most of your time agruing over where you all ive and where things occurred and who is right or who is wrong. Look at this map no look at this one, this map is original and your are out dated this is what google says and this one was drawn up by the Dutch when they settled here so it's more accurate.

Let's get back on track here people the real purpose of this thread is too inform, INFORM, people of the HORRORS that have taken place here this past week.

Last week Five police officers were injured PROTECTING you from the horros of this world, one of which gave his life for. Last night four more officers risked thier lives doing it again. All anyone here can do is take this time to dispute where an incident happened and how many blocks it happened from.

Get a grip people all the complaining you have done about the police and how much they need to do to fight crime, we'll this is what they have been doing and now a man has given his life for you. For you to sleep better at night so let's stop with the dividing lines and settle this now, you all are Jersey City residents and leave it at that.

How about we take some of that energy and put into something useful, take a moment today and say a prayer for all the police not just the Jersey City Police but all police around the world who face the horrors of this wotld so you don't have to.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 1:05
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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teacher wrote:
Were these black people again? This is an outrage.
Kudos to Worms, we pay more down here, and as such deserve as more cops down here than they have up on Bergan. Crime will go where police presence isn't.
Lord, I have to move to Sweden. Don't worry liberal losers, I am selling, and maybe I will sell my building to some crack heads, to add to the diversity of Grove Street. Enjoy...


I <3 you.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 0:54
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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tanze_des_lasters wrote:
Madam, have you ever left the “safe haven” of downtown to explore the rest of the city? I live in an area you would like to see cut off from yours. My street is tree-lined with a newly paved road; all of the rowhouses are maintained beautifully and historically with flowers and plants in the front. There are no bars on the windows and doors nor is there graffiti or people loitering. Rarely is there loud music. The neighbors are wonderful. They earn their livings as doctors, lawyers, artists, small business owners, librarians, teachers and public servants.

I am an owner and taxpayer with no criminal record. I work in New York City for a well-known company. I am a registered voter and vote. I attend council meetings. I am involved in my neighborhood as well as the Jersey City community at large. I volunteer my time to the local TNR initiative. I have a daughter who attends private school in New York State who will one day become yet another asset to Jersey City residing the area you find so distasteful. I also spend a great deal of money downtown and would be happy to take my business to New York City should you not want me on your sacred ground.

Please get off your high horse as you really have no idea that the number of worthwhile caring citizens residing in “that other part” of this city truly outnumber those you are having issues with.

According to Gnome General:
Quote:
.....If they could build a wall between downtown and everything beyond the turnpike it would be grand. When a neighborhood has garbage, graffiti, no trees, loud music, people loitering on every stoop and homes that have metal gates on their front windows - you cannot deny that aesthetically it translates that this hood is bad. Go call a waaambulance.


Thanks for the accolades. However, I'm not talking about the rare "Bentley Ave" amid the ruins. There are exceptions to every hood, class of people...etc. I would also like to highlight the fact that you all flock to a webside dedicated to downtown for a reason. You all resemble us downtowners more, otherwise you wouldn't even be online. Where's the greenville JClist?


you know, there is another forum that people post on. i seem to remember that it's taboo to post the link or even speak of it.. so i may have said too much.

i think youve got it backwards chief, dont you mean you downtowners resemble us people in the nice neighborhoods? after all, our neighborhoods were nice way before downtown was nice

(obviously tongue in cheek... the point is that your whole premise of people wanting to be like the ideal DTJC is pretentious. but if that helps you sleep at night...all the more power to ya)

Posted on: 2009/7/22 0:52
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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tanze_des_lasters wrote:
Madam, have you ever left the “safe haven” of downtown to explore the rest of the city? I live in an area you would like to see cut off from yours. My street is tree-lined with a newly paved road; all of the rowhouses are maintained beautifully and historically with flowers and plants in the front. There are no bars on the windows and doors nor is there graffiti or people loitering. Rarely is there loud music. The neighbors are wonderful. They earn their livings as doctors, lawyers, artists, small business owners, librarians, teachers and public servants.

I am an owner and taxpayer with no criminal record. I work in New York City for a well-known company. I am a registered voter and vote. I attend council meetings. I am involved in my neighborhood as well as the Jersey City community at large. I volunteer my time to the local TNR initiative. I have a daughter who attends private school in New York State who will one day become yet another asset to Jersey City residing the area you find so distasteful. I also spend a great deal of money downtown and would be happy to take my business to New York City should you not want me on your sacred ground.

Please get off your high horse as you really have no idea that the number of worthwhile caring citizens residing in “that other part” of this city truly outnumber those you are having issues with.

According to Gnome General:
Quote:
.....If they could build a wall between downtown and everything beyond the turnpike it would be grand. When a neighborhood has garbage, graffiti, no trees, loud music, people loitering on every stoop and homes that have metal gates on their front windows - you cannot deny that aesthetically it translates that this hood is bad. Go call a waaambulance.


Thanks for the accolades. However, I'm not talking about the rare "Bentley Ave" amid the ruins. There are exceptions to every hood, class of people...etc. I would also like to highlight the fact that you all flock to a webside dedicated to downtown for a reason. You all resemble us downtowners more, otherwise you wouldn't even be online. Where's the greenville JClist?

Posted on: 2009/7/22 0:48
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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teacher said:
Were these black people again? This is an outrage.
Kudos to Worms, we pay more down here, and as such deserve as more cops down here than they have up on Bergan. Crime will go where police presence isn't.
Lord, I have to move to Sweden. Don't worry liberal losers, I am selling, and maybe I will sell my building to some crack heads, to add to the diversity of Grove Street. Enjoy...


nice try troll. after such a lengthy thread, youd figure youd sneak in at the end and take home the win. unfortunately anyone whos read any of your other posts already knows what you are. better think of a new login name (maybe 'student' ?)

Posted on: 2009/7/22 0:46
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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mwa7368 wrote:
Don't forget Hamilton Park.


oh yeah hamilton park is good too, very different ambience than the modern style newport.


agreed hamilton park is also pretty nice

Posted on: 2009/7/22 0:44
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Were these black people again? This is an outrage.
Kudos to Worms, we pay more down here, and as such deserve as more cops down here than they have up on Bergan. Crime will go where police presence isn't.
Lord, I have to move to Sweden. Don't worry liberal losers, I am selling, and maybe I will sell my building to some crack heads, to add to the diversity of Grove Street. Enjoy...

Posted on: 2009/7/22 0:44
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
#96
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Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
To everyone defending the non-downtown neighborhoods ... I understand your points, truly I do, but if this board seems very downtown-centric at times, just remember that the name of this website is Downtown Jersey City List.


i didnt mean to defend the non-downtown neighborhoods as much as calling into question the faulty logic that has been perpetuated on this thread. i do realize that this is primarily a downtown site, although more and more people from other neighborhoods have found this site and started posting on it.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 0:44
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Quote:

mwa7368 wrote:
Don't forget Hamilton Park.


oh yeah hamilton park is good too, very different ambience than the modern style newport.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 0:42
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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tommyc_37 wrote:
To everyone defending the non-downtown neighborhoods ... I understand your points, truly I do, but if this board seems very downtown-centric at times, just remember that the name of this website is Downtown Jersey City List.


+1

Posted on: 2009/7/22 0:39
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
#93
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To everyone defending the non-downtown neighborhoods ... I understand your points, truly I do, but if this board seems very downtown-centric at times, just remember that the name of this website is Downtown Jersey City List.

Posted on: 2009/7/22 0:07
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