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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
#92
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Don't forget, David Berkowitz, the 44cal Killer, was captured because of a parking ticket. Nuf' said about QoL enforcement being "nonsense".

Posted on: 2009/7/22 0:00
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Quote:

wibbit wrote:
when defining downtown, i consider those 3 locations:
-newport
-paulus hook
-grove path

I wouldnt want to live further out down newark ave, i know technically they are considered downtown but it's not a desirable location. Probably will pick jsq path over that.

Quote:

regulator wrote:

you lost her after this part. it's a lost cause for most of these posters. i think the problem is their distorted view of what jersey city and downtown are. to them, downtown means specifically their neighborhood. now if you live in newport or paulus hook - then of course, youd be proud to call downtown your own. but to suggest that anything near the turnpike (even if it's on the correct side) is 'downtown' is preposterous.. that CANT be downtown. only the good stuff is downtown, and everything that isn't downtown is bad.

well you know what? there are bad areas of downtown too, whether you like it or not (wayne and barrow? most of newark ave at night?) if you want to stay on your high horse, then talk about your individual neighborhood. im sure it's very nice. but just as you have nice neighborhoods in downtown, other portions of the city have nice parts in theirs (heights - western slope; greenville - country village; bergen lafayette, etc.).

if you lived in any of these places, youd find relatively little crime, good transportation and a high quality of life. yet, you'd be hard pressed to find any of the residents of these areas screaming for a wall to isolate the rest of the (heights/bergen/greenville) from their neighborhood. why do you think that is?

instead of clamoring for safer streets because you pay more, take some time to realize that there are other sections of jc as well, and we're all committed to seeing the city improve.


Don't forget Hamilton Park.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 23:53
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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when defining downtown, i consider those 3 locations:
-newport
-paulus hook
-grove path

I wouldnt want to live further out down newark ave, i know technically they are considered downtown but it's not a desirable location. Probably will pick jsq path over that.

Quote:

regulator wrote:

you lost her after this part. it's a lost cause for most of these posters. i think the problem is their distorted view of what jersey city and downtown are. to them, downtown means specifically their neighborhood. now if you live in newport or paulus hook - then of course, youd be proud to call downtown your own. but to suggest that anything near the turnpike (even if it's on the correct side) is 'downtown' is preposterous.. that CANT be downtown. only the good stuff is downtown, and everything that isn't downtown is bad.

well you know what? there are bad areas of downtown too, whether you like it or not (wayne and barrow? most of newark ave at night?) if you want to stay on your high horse, then talk about your individual neighborhood. im sure it's very nice. but just as you have nice neighborhoods in downtown, other portions of the city have nice parts in theirs (heights - western slope; greenville - country village; bergen lafayette, etc.).

if you lived in any of these places, youd find relatively little crime, good transportation and a high quality of life. yet, you'd be hard pressed to find any of the residents of these areas screaming for a wall to isolate the rest of the (heights/bergen/greenville) from their neighborhood. why do you think that is?

instead of clamoring for safer streets because you pay more, take some time to realize that there are other sections of jc as well, and we're all committed to seeing the city improve.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 23:40
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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you seem so out of touch with everything, were you around during the 80s with hookers, drugs, homeless and graffiti all over the place in broad daylight? if you think nyc improved in the 90s because the whole country did and not as a result of hardline active enforcement by the nypd under giuliani, i dont know what else to say to you, other than you are delusional.

And what are you talking about again, with the comment regarding moving the unwanted to queens/brooklyn. I lived in queens at the time, and visited brooklyn often. The area is the same, the good parts like forest hills, bayside, freshmeadow remained very good, while the bad parts such as jamaica/ozone park remained the same. There is no big transformation, unless you count the gentrification in parts of brooklyn.

Seriously get a clue....

Quote:

T-Bird wrote:
Laughable. If Healy (or any mayor) did to Jersey City what Giulaini did to NY, he'd be shot. Wow - Rudy cleaned up Times Square and various rougher sections of Manhattan and essentially moved it to Queens and Brooklyn. Can you imagine the posts on this site if a JC mayor forced any undesirable activity out of downtown and it all showed up a short while later in the Heights?

Look it up Wibbit - crime went down nationally and if you look at NYC as a whole and not just the disneyfied midtown/times square area, the story wasn't unusual relative to the rest of the nation.

Quote:

wibbit wrote:
This is just flat out false. Guiliani's (and his police heads) success in cleaning up nyc is undeniable, nyc will not be what it is today without his action. For all his faults and the shameful 9/11 plugs in the 08 election, Guiliani's contribution to cleanup nyc is historical, even more amazing is the fast pace it is accomplished.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 23:36
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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tanze_des_lasters wrote:
Madam, have you ever left the ?safe haven? of downtown to explore the rest of the city? I live in an area you would like to see cut off from yours


you lost her after this part. it's a lost cause for most of these posters. i think the problem is their distorted view of what jersey city and downtown are. to them, downtown means specifically their neighborhood. now if you live in newport or paulus hook - then of course, youd be proud to call downtown your own. but to suggest that anything near the turnpike (even if it's on the correct side) is 'downtown' is preposterous.. that CANT be downtown. only the good stuff is downtown, and everything that isn't downtown is bad.

well you know what? there are bad areas of downtown too, whether you like it or not (wayne and barrow? most of newark ave at night?) if you want to stay on your high horse, then talk about your individual neighborhood. im sure it's very nice. but just as you have nice neighborhoods in downtown, other portions of the city have nice parts in theirs (heights - western slope; greenville - country village; bergen lafayette, etc.).

if you lived in any of these places, youd find relatively little crime, good transportation and a high quality of life. yet, you'd be hard pressed to find any of the residents of these areas screaming for a wall to isolate the rest of the (heights/bergen/greenville) from their neighborhood. why do you think that is?

instead of clamoring for safer streets because you pay more, take some time to realize that there are other sections of jc as well, and we're all committed to seeing the city improve.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 23:28
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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amen t-d-l. amen.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 23:21
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Madam, have you ever left the ?safe haven? of downtown to explore the rest of the city? I live in an area you would like to see cut off from yours. My street is tree-lined with a newly paved road; all of the rowhouses are maintained beautifully and historically with flowers and plants in the front. There are no bars on the windows and doors nor is there graffiti or people loitering. Rarely is there loud music. The neighbors are wonderful. They earn their livings as doctors, lawyers, artists, small business owners, librarians, teachers and public servants.

I am an owner and taxpayer with no criminal record. I work in New York City for a well-known company. I am a registered voter and vote. I attend council meetings. I am involved in my neighborhood as well as the Jersey City community at large. I volunteer my time to the local TNR initiative. I have a daughter who attends private school in New York State who will one day become yet another asset to Jersey City residing the area you find so distasteful. I also spend a great deal of money downtown and would be happy to take my business to New York City should you not want me on your sacred ground.

Please get off your high horse as you really have no idea that the number of worthwhile caring citizens residing in ?that other part? of this city truly outnumber those you are having issues with.

According to Gnome General:
Quote:
.....If they could build a wall between downtown and everything beyond the turnpike it would be grand. When a neighborhood has garbage, graffiti, no trees, loud music, people loitering on every stoop and homes that have metal gates on their front windows - you cannot deny that aesthetically it translates that this hood is bad. Go call a waaambulance.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 23:20
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Bogart wrote:
Quote:

mfadam wrote:
How many "shots at police crimes" is it going to take before people realize that things are out of control?

In light of what happened it seems that some serious show of force is necessary. Clearly the existing system is not working at all...


I have the opposite reaction. These shootings occurred because the police were doing their jobs well, taking violent criminals off the streets.


Agreed. Things broke down into a shootout because multiple police officers responded quickly to a robbery incident and cornered and eventually apprehended the suspects. The robbery apparently happened only a few blocks away. Good job to JCPD officers responding last night.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 23:08
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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"I tend to agree and maybe we could electrify the wall and watch the gun toting ganstas fry as they try to climb in and rob people."

Omg I would totally bring a lawn chair with some sunblock to come watch the activity at this electrified wall.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 21:43
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Greenvillechick wrote:
Quote:

GnomeGeneral wrote:
[quote]
worm wrote:
[quote]
GnomeGeneral wrote:
[quote]
worm wrote:
[quote]




When a neighborhood has those things its called the suburbs you jackass...move there!


Really? If you this that's what suburbia is about then you're the jackass. Unless you think that Secaucus, Irvington, Hillside and likes are prime examples of suburbia. If you own a car, you should take a ride out to Somerset or Hunterdon County. To me, that defines suburbia.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 21:41
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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I live in the downtown area and as my friend up in Bergen/Lafayette area says " we do not live in a protective bubble". Crime is everywhere so to pinpoint one area as bad is insane. Robberies/assaults/shootings/drug dealing/and the like are everywhere. These people have no boundaries.

Taxes need to be spent on more police. I do not care if "A" pays more or less than "B". Collectively it goes into the same pot. We are not getting and I mean all of us the protection we are paying for.

I heard but not sure on this so no pimp slapping here please, the city council meets for it's summer schedule during the late morning when we are all at work. They rubber stamp anything because we are not there.

Oh by the way I did vote. That always come up on this site.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 21:39
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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GnomeGeneral wrote:
Quote:

worm wrote:
Quote:

GnomeGeneral wrote:
Quote:

worm wrote:
Quote:


My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.


Really????well let me show you my tax bill. The argument that someone deserves to be safer just because they pay more is an elitist one and one that I hope the city will overlook. We all deserve more safety. Equally.

Admit it, you pay more, because you moved here once the area had a decent coffee shop, not because the schools showed great improvement and the crime rate dropped.

What really irks me is the way residents from every part of jersey city separate themselves from each other. If you were to look at the city as a whole, you would realize that we are all affected by each others' actions--good and bad.


Show me your tax bill. Oh and I will absolutely admit that I didn't move here for the schools. I don't have any children, but if I did, I would NEVER send them to a public school here. Not because the education is bad, but because I wouldn't want my kid around the riff raff that dwells here. My husband and I moved for one simple reason - proximity to the city and friends. (Neither of us drink coffee by the way) We chose downtown because it has a higher standard of living. Meaning safety, entertainment, restaurants, gyms and it simply looks better. (Yes, aesthetics matter. You can always tell a neighborhood is deteriorating just by looking at it.)



Here's my tax bill. Mind you l live on the west side (near Reed street!!!) and I believe my taxes are slated to go up another +/_ $400.


2009 4 11-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 3 08-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 2 05-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,927.13
2009 1 02-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,926.93


I also know people in hamilton park who pay less than half of what I do and own an entire house.

I guess by your rationale, and the aesthetically unpleasant area I supposedly live in, I should be paying less. And maybe being that I own, I should be entitled to more, maybe the city should park a cop right on my doorstep. OH and maid service please......I deserve more.

And if your going to judge how degraded a neighborhood looks like based on aesthetics alone, you probably think Williamsburg is a scary dump.


Still doesn't add up to 8K. Yes, I do think Williamsburg is a dump. I would rather live in downtown JC than with a bunch of pansy hipsters who stick up for the lowlives of their hood like you do. Oh and I do attend city hall meetings, but you guessed it...only when they pertain to downtown living. If they could build a wall between downtown and everything beyond the turnpike it would be grand. When a neighborhood has garbage, graffiti, no trees, loud music, people loitering on every stoop and homes that have metal gates on their front windows - you cannot deny that aesthetically it translates that this hood is bad. Go call a waaambulance.


I tend to agree and maybe we could electrify the wall and watch the gun toting ganstas fry as they try to climb in and rob people.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 21:38
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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GnomeGeneral wrote:
Quote:

worm wrote:
Quote:

GnomeGeneral wrote:
Quote:

worm wrote:
Quote:


My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.


Really????well let me show you my tax bill. The argument that someone deserves to be safer just because they pay more is an elitist one and one that I hope the city will overlook. We all deserve more safety. Equally.

Admit it, you pay more, because you moved here once the area had a decent coffee shop, not because the schools showed great improvement and the crime rate dropped.

What really irks me is the way residents from every part of jersey city separate themselves from each other. If you were to look at the city as a whole, you would realize that we are all affected by each others' actions--good and bad.


Show me your tax bill. Oh and I will absolutely admit that I didn't move here for the schools. I don't have any children, but if I did, I would NEVER send them to a public school here. Not because the education is bad, but because I wouldn't want my kid around the riff raff that dwells here. My husband and I moved for one simple reason - proximity to the city and friends. (Neither of us drink coffee by the way) We chose downtown because it has a higher standard of living. Meaning safety, entertainment, restaurants, gyms and it simply looks better. (Yes, aesthetics matter. You can always tell a neighborhood is deteriorating just by looking at it.)



Here's my tax bill. Mind you l live on the west side (near Reed street!!!) and I believe my taxes are slated to go up another +/_ $400.


2009 4 11-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 3 08-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 2 05-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,927.13
2009 1 02-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,926.93


I also know people in hamilton park who pay less than half of what I do and own an entire house.

I guess by your rationale, and the aesthetically unpleasant area I supposedly live in, I should be paying less. And maybe being that I own, I should be entitled to more, maybe the city should park a cop right on my doorstep. OH and maid service please......I deserve more.

And if your going to judge how degraded a neighborhood looks like based on aesthetics alone, you probably think Williamsburg is a scary dump.


Still doesn't add up to 8K. Yes, I do think Williamsburg is a dump. I would rather live in downtown JC than with a bunch of pansy hipsters who stick up for the lowlives of their hood like you do. Oh and I do attend city hall meetings, but you guessed it...only when they pertain to downtown living. If they could build a wall between downtown and everything beyond the turnpike it would be grand. When a neighborhood has garbage, graffiti, no trees, loud music, people loitering on every stoop and homes that have metal gates on their front windows - you cannot deny that aesthetically it translates that this hood is bad. Go call a waaambulance.



When a neighborhood has those things its called the suburbs you jackass...move there!

Posted on: 2009/7/21 21:35
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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worm wrote:
Quote:

GnomeGeneral wrote:
Quote:

worm wrote:
Quote:


My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.


Really????well let me show you my tax bill. The argument that someone deserves to be safer just because they pay more is an elitist one and one that I hope the city will overlook. We all deserve more safety. Equally.

Admit it, you pay more, because you moved here once the area had a decent coffee shop, not because the schools showed great improvement and the crime rate dropped.

What really irks me is the way residents from every part of jersey city separate themselves from each other. If you were to look at the city as a whole, you would realize that we are all affected by each others' actions--good and bad.


Show me your tax bill. Oh and I will absolutely admit that I didn't move here for the schools. I don't have any children, but if I did, I would NEVER send them to a public school here. Not because the education is bad, but because I wouldn't want my kid around the riff raff that dwells here. My husband and I moved for one simple reason - proximity to the city and friends. (Neither of us drink coffee by the way) We chose downtown because it has a higher standard of living. Meaning safety, entertainment, restaurants, gyms and it simply looks better. (Yes, aesthetics matter. You can always tell a neighborhood is deteriorating just by looking at it.)



Here's my tax bill. Mind you l live on the west side (near Reed street!!!) and I believe my taxes are slated to go up another +/_ $400.


2009 4 11-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 3 08-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 2 05-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,927.13
2009 1 02-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,926.93


I also know people in hamilton park who pay less than half of what I do and own an entire house.

I guess by your rationale, and the aesthetically unpleasant area I supposedly live in, I should be paying less. And maybe being that I own, I should be entitled to more, maybe the city should park a cop right on my doorstep. OH and maid service please......I deserve more.

And if your going to judge how degraded a neighborhood looks like based on aesthetics alone, you probably think Williamsburg is a scary dump.


Still doesn't add up to 8K. Yes, I do think Williamsburg is a dump. I would rather live in downtown JC than with a bunch of pansy hipsters who stick up for the lowlives of their hood like you do. Oh and I do attend city hall meetings, but you guessed it...only when they pertain to downtown living. If they could build a wall between downtown and everything beyond the turnpike it would be grand. When a neighborhood has garbage, graffiti, no trees, loud music, people loitering on every stoop and homes that have metal gates on their front windows - you cannot deny that aesthetically it translates that this hood is bad. Go call a waaambulance.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 21:32
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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JCSHEP wrote:
The wiki article on this is pretty interesting and shows both sides: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixing_Broken_Windows


I don't dismiss the Broken Windows theory completely. I just think that it gets a disproportionate share of the credit for what happened in NYC in the 90s.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 19:57
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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mfadam wrote:
How many "shots at police crimes" is it going to take before people realize that things are out of control?

In light of what happened it seems that some serious show of force is necessary. Clearly the existing system is not working at all...


I have the opposite reaction. These shootings occurred because the police were doing their jobs well, taking violent criminals off the streets.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 19:49
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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worm wrote:
Quote:

GnomeGeneral wrote:
Quote:

worm wrote:
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My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.


Really????well let me show you my tax bill. The argument that someone deserves to be safer just because they pay more is an elitist one and one that I hope the city will overlook. We all deserve more safety. Equally.

Admit it, you pay more, because you moved here once the area had a decent coffee shop, not because the schools showed great improvement and the crime rate dropped.

What really irks me is the way residents from every part of jersey city separate themselves from each other. If you were to look at the city as a whole, you would realize that we are all affected by each others' actions--good and bad.


Show me your tax bill. Oh and I will absolutely admit that I didn't move here for the schools. I don't have any children, but if I did, I would NEVER send them to a public school here. Not because the education is bad, but because I wouldn't want my kid around the riff raff that dwells here. My husband and I moved for one simple reason - proximity to the city and friends. (Neither of us drink coffee by the way) We chose downtown because it has a higher standard of living. Meaning safety, entertainment, restaurants, gyms and it simply looks better. (Yes, aesthetics matter. You can always tell a neighborhood is deteriorating just by looking at it.)



Here's my tax bill. Mind you l live on the west side (near Reed street!!!) and I believe my taxes are slated to go up another +/_ $400.


2009 4 11-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 3 08-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 2 05-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,927.13
2009 1 02-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,926.93


I also know people in hamilton park who pay less than half of what I do and own an entire house.

I guess by your rationale, and the aesthetically unpleasant area I supposedly live in, I should be paying less. And maybe being that I own, I should be entitled to more, maybe the city should park a cop right on my doorstep. OH and maid service please......I deserve more.

And if your going to judge how degraded a neighborhood looks like based on aesthetics alone, you probably think Williamsburg is a scary dump.




You failed to mention that since your paying "less" that gives up your sense of safety

Posted on: 2009/7/21 19:28
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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My husband and I moved for one simple reason - proximity to the city and friends.


And let me guess, you haven't gone to a single community meeting or attended any of your local police precinct meetings. You just post away complaints on a blog with no vested interest in the area outside of your own needs and somehow you deserve more. You really should move. And I have a right to say this because I pay more than you.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 19:11
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.


Really????well let me show you my tax bill. The argument that someone deserves to be safer just because they pay more is an elitist one and one that I hope the city will overlook. We all deserve more safety. Equally.

Admit it, you pay more, because you moved here once the area had a decent coffee shop, not because the schools showed great improvement and the crime rate dropped.

What really irks me is the way residents from every part of jersey city separate themselves from each other. If you were to look at the city as a whole, you would realize that we are all affected by each others' actions--good and bad.


Show me your tax bill. Oh and I will absolutely admit that I didn't move here for the schools. I don't have any children, but if I did, I would NEVER send them to a public school here. Not because the education is bad, but because I wouldn't want my kid around the riff raff that dwells here. My husband and I moved for one simple reason - proximity to the city and friends. (Neither of us drink coffee by the way) We chose downtown because it has a higher standard of living. Meaning safety, entertainment, restaurants, gyms and it simply looks better. (Yes, aesthetics matter. You can always tell a neighborhood is deteriorating just by looking at it.)



Here's my tax bill. Mind you l live on the west side (near Reed street!!!) and I believe my taxes are slated to go up another +/_ $400.


2009 4 11-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 3 08-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,724.58
2009 2 05-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,927.13
2009 1 02-01-2009 TAXES BILL 1,926.93


I also know people in hamilton park who pay less than half of what I do and own an entire house.

I guess by your rationale, and the aesthetically unpleasant area I supposedly live in, I should be paying less. And maybe being that I own, I should be entitled to more, maybe the city should park a cop right on my doorstep. OH and maid service please......I deserve more.

And if your going to judge how degraded a neighborhood looks like based on aesthetics alone, you probably think Williamsburg is a scary dump.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 18:57
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Laughable. If Healy (or any mayor) did to Jersey City what Giulaini did to NY, he'd be shot. Wow - Rudy cleaned up Times Square and various rougher sections of Manhattan and essentially moved it to Queens and Brooklyn. Can you imagine the posts on this site if a JC mayor forced any undesirable activity out of downtown and it all showed up a short while later in the Heights?

Look it up Wibbit - crime went down nationally and if you look at NYC as a whole and not just the disneyfied midtown/times square area, the story wasn't unusual relative to the rest of the nation.


Crime is down in downtown JC far more than it is down nationally.

And criminals were being told specifically not commit crimes downtown.

There's a message. "Young man, I don't want you breaking into cars on this side of the turnpike, or selling crack more than 1 block from the projects".

Posted on: 2009/7/21 18:55
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Laughable. If Healy (or any mayor) did to Jersey City what Giulaini did to NY, he'd be shot. Wow - Rudy cleaned up Times Square and various rougher sections of Manhattan and essentially moved it to Queens and Brooklyn. Can you imagine the posts on this site if a JC mayor forced any undesirable activity out of downtown and it all showed up a short while later in the Heights?

Look it up Wibbit - crime went down nationally and if you look at NYC as a whole and not just the disneyfied midtown/times square area, the story wasn't unusual relative to the rest of the nation.

Quote:

wibbit wrote:
This is just flat out false. Guiliani's (and his police heads) success in cleaning up nyc is undeniable, nyc will not be what it is today without his action. For all his faults and the shameful 9/11 plugs in the 08 election, Guiliani's contribution to cleanup nyc is historical, even more amazing is the fast pace it is accomplished.


The wiki article on this is pretty interesting and shows both sides: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixing_Broken_Windows

Posted on: 2009/7/21 17:17
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Not to take away from the dangers that cops face or this particular incident but I believe we could make these less frequent. If they built shelters and programs instead of prisons it would be cheaper and more effective (statistics support up to 18 times more effective).

Yes, it is really bad getting sent to Rikers Island for being homeless or prostituting or using drugs. The streets are safer (you can run away from the bad guys or fight back) and the food is infinitely better. But there is no common sense and the corrections and police unions fight that because they don't want to change thier job description to chasing after armed and dangerous folk.

I also remember a scandal where NYC was giving homeless folk ONE WAY tickets to Florida! Now it's just one way tickets to Rikers Island.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 17:08
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Laughable. If Healy (or any mayor) did to Jersey City what Giulaini did to NY, he'd be shot. Wow - Rudy cleaned up Times Square and various rougher sections of Manhattan and essentially moved it to Queens and Brooklyn. Can you imagine the posts on this site if a JC mayor forced any undesirable activity out of downtown and it all showed up a short while later in the Heights?

Look it up Wibbit - crime went down nationally and if you look at NYC as a whole and not just the disneyfied midtown/times square area, the story wasn't unusual relative to the rest of the nation.

Quote:

wibbit wrote:
This is just flat out false. Guiliani's (and his police heads) success in cleaning up nyc is undeniable, nyc will not be what it is today without his action. For all his faults and the shameful 9/11 plugs in the 08 election, Guiliani's contribution to cleanup nyc is historical, even more amazing is the fast pace it is accomplished.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 17:03
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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He (Giuliani) didn't clean up NYC just the Times Square area. Those folk were basically harmless addicts, homeless and hookers, and they moved not so far away.

Vigilante you said most criminals are not artists, check these out: prisonartsfoundation.com and prisonsfoundation.org and prisonartgallery.com there are many more.

I remember a news article around the time Giuliani targeted the homeless. It was about how some of the NYC homeless were coming to Hudson County to escape the police harassment in NY.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 17:00
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.


Really????well let me show you my tax bill. The argument that someone deserves to be safer just because they pay more is an elitist one and one that I hope the city will overlook. We all deserve more safety. Equally.

Admit it, you pay more, because you moved here once the area had a decent coffee shop, not because the schools showed great improvement and the crime rate dropped.

What really irks me is the way residents from every part of jersey city separate themselves from each other. If you were to look at the city as a whole, you would realize that we are all affected by each others' actions--good and bad.


Show me your tax bill. Oh and I will absolutely admit that I didn't move here for the schools. I don't have any children, but if I did, I would NEVER send them to a public school here. Not because the education is bad, but because I wouldn't want my kid around the riff raff that dwells here. My husband and I moved for one simple reason - proximity to the city and friends. (Neither of us drink coffee by the way) We chose downtown because it has a higher standard of living. Meaning safety, entertainment, restaurants, gyms and it simply looks better. (Yes, aesthetics matter. You can always tell a neighborhood is deteriorating just by looking at it.)

Posted on: 2009/7/21 16:58
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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He (Giuliani) didn't clean up NYC just the Times Square area. Those folk were basically harmless addicts, homeless and hookers, and they moved not so far away.

Vigilante you said most criminals are not artists, check these out: prisonartsfoundation.com and prisonsfoundation.org and prisonartgallery.com there are many more.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 16:55
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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...on other people's or public property = vandalism.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 16:55
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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Greenvillechick wrote: If anyone has a right to complain it's people who live in bergen lafayette and greenville. And whether you pay 2000 a month or 700 a month you should be safe no matter what... that is just appaling that you think that since you pay more you should have more safety F.O.H.
Sorry. Everyone has a right to complain. It's enshrined in the First Amendment. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Bergen Hill, Lafayette, Greenville, The Heights... they have bigger problems and should be more vocal politically, demand more from the City, expect more from their community, and do more for themselves. But, that's quite a challenge. Unfortunately, they may speak, vote, expect, and do less as a result.
Alan, speaking only for myself and my family, we do vote. And considering only 20 or 30 % of all of Jersey City voters came out at the last very important city election, it seems many people have given up. But there is something that you may overlook: The "look who's doing the complaining" factor. I think a part of the problem is the city is just more responsive to certain sectors, that the attitude of "who pays more rent" also pervades the city's responses in some situations. It makes it easier to write off certain areas because everyone knows "they're all just - fill in the blank" and makes it easier overlook the decent folks of the area, after all "you know how they are". A true story for you: Many years ago there was a tenant interim lease program building on our block which developed "structural problems" The city gave the block association 2 options - either take a soup kitchen on the ground floor (there was - and is still - one 2 blocks away) and the "repairs" would be made or take a hole in the ground where the building used to stand. We protested against the soup kitchen, the tenants were removed, the building demolished and we ended up with the hole in the ground which was paved over with black top. It is difficult sometimes not to lose hope.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 16:49
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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We pay all your taxes,


Actually no. This is a faulty argument because most of the property in the downtown is significantly undervalued for the purposes of property taxes. While all properties in the city are undervalued, the downtown property values have increased at a faster rate, so are presently underpaying their share of property taxes.

However, what the downtown money does do is create low skill jobs as which would otherwise not exist in the city. And it also creates a safe haven, which hard as it is to believe, includes diverse income levels. Yes, poor people still do live interspersed throughout the downtown and benefit from safer streets, better schools, better services. And as the gentrified downtown expands, will begin to raise property values and expand the bubble further west.

But the one thing that is not true is that the downtown does not pay "all your taxes."


My friend lives in a renovated 800 sf condo on 8th St. and pays $8,000 a year in taxes. I highly doubt that anyone from bergen-lafayette or greenville pays remotely as much. No downtown doesn't pay all the city's taxes, but we do pay disproportionately more per square foot then the other hoods of JC. We pay more, because we expect a higher standard of living. Just as someone would pay more to live in West Orange as opposed to East Orange.

Type in Country Village Rd for the street and Jersey City where the city goes and you will see almost the whole street pays the same amount as your friend.
http://www.starledger.com/str/indexpage/taxes/taxstreet.asp

And this is in Greenville by the way.


In all honesty can you say that country village is a true representation of Greenville? I don't think so. It's like saying that downtown is the area next to holland tunnel where the salvation army is located. Your previous comment proves even more that the prices in Downtown are higher for reasons other then the condition of the housing itself. Downtown costs more because its a more desirable/safe place to live.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 16:43
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Re: More Gunplay: Suspected crooks open fire at JC cops -- July 21st
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In retrospect, Guiliani's success was less about anything he did and a lot more about national trends, a roaring economic expansion


This is just flat out false. Guiliani's (and his police heads) success in cleaning up nyc is undeniable, nyc will not be what it is today without his action. For all his faults and the shameful 9/11 plugs in the 08 election, Guiliani's contribution to cleanup nyc is historical, even more amazing is the fast pace it is accomplished.

This will never happen in jersey city, the mayor and its police heads are so deeply embedded within the old jc culture/political games. There will be a few more cop cars after a shooting for a little while but there will never the kind of sweeping actions needed to cleanup jc.

We need an outside, someone aggressive. Although Newark is a lot worse by comparison to jc, they are on the right path with their new mayor and police chief.

healy and his goons just dont have the competence / mindset to do it.

Posted on: 2009/7/21 16:43
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