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You left out the understated "Grove of Remembrance" 9-11 memorial already in LSP. And you must be confusing FoLSP wth some other organization promoting commercialization of LSP like the LSP Development Corp.

I would say that history shows the opposite.

It is my understanding that as a FOLSP I helped keep the water park and golf course OUT.

What am I missing here?

We have a Memorial in Town Square Park at the foot of Pavonia in Newport. It is reasonably sized and reasonably tasteful. For those tht need to remember, it's about 200 feet from the PATH station.


Jersey City needs NO MORE MEMORIALS to our reasons for two wars and a destroyed economy (and Constitution)...that's what cemeteries are for.

Parks are for the living!

(Oh an aside: I was an initial member of Friends of Liberty Park. I resigned when I realized that the purpose of the group was to rubber stamp decisions by the head of the state EPA who ALWAYS had a powerful representation who, in essence chaired the meeting and dictated the agenda.
IF we were not ready and willing to okay a private golf course and marina in the park we were told we were not doing what we were THERE for.
I often wonder what happened to that prik!


Thus we have a hideous private marina but thankfully no golf course, YET!)[quote]

Wow! The planned memorial is an absolute monstrosity. Unfortunately 9/11 has become such a taboo in this country that being against of even an ugly, un-natural, park destroying symbol of it feels unpatriotic and not respectful enough.

I truly hope this doesn't go through and will join the next demonstration against it.

sure, looks great....FROM A HELICOPTER.

the artist's rendering at ground-level looks like an alleyway behind a shopping mall. exactly what I head to a state park to experience.

Agreed, I rather like it.

http://www.schwartzarch.com/projects/new_jersey_memorial.html

This is the Friends' web site: www.folsp.org

Needless 9/11 memorial at Liberty State Park

Star-Ledger Letters to the Editor July 24, 2009 5:46AM


A fenced-in mound of dirt is the site of the proposed "Empty Sky" 9/11 memorial at the foot of Audrey Zapp Drive at Liberty State Park in Jersey City.

Obstructing memory

There is no greater tribute to those lost in the terror attacks on 9/11 than viewing the lower Manhattan skyline and experiencing the empty space where the World Trade Center towers once stood. Walking on Liberty Walk along the Hudson River in Liberty State Park gives one pause to reflect on what we, as a nation, suffered on that painful day.

The juxtaposition of a park, whose very name honors freedom and liberty, across from the place where those who oppose those rights and values committed their heinous act, has become more than a memorial to the memory of those we lost. Superimposing a monument consisting of a 10-foot-high hill and two long steel walls on the closest part of Liberty State Park to Ground Zero, and obstructing our view of why our freedom is so dear to us, seems illogical and irrational.

Place the memorial in the park where it will have its intended effect without altering the beauty and symbol that is Liberty State Park.

-George Marano, Nutley

Thanks for that heads up Frankie.

They will act on that info and thus change the name to

THE EMPTY HEAD MEMORIAL

A more appropriate name all round for this travesty.

Hey look! The name is already taken!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_Sky

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The "Grove of Remembrance" is not at all stunning, and is practically unknown. There are two paths towards the park, and some small trees and bushes. Eh. Even the sign is dilapidated.

However, I much prefer a living memorial to two cold, steel, ugly "tombstone"-looking walls. The walls are physical, but blockage is emotional.

I pray we can all transcend this blockage with respect by not continuing the poor decision to build it in the first place, and by choosing something more touching and appropriate.

Group protests 9/11 memorial along Hudson River

The Associated Press

JERSEY CITY, N.J. - Nearly 100 people protested plans to erect a Sept. 11 monument on the New Jersey side of the Hudson River.

Friends of Liberty State Park say the long-delayed memorial is a waste of taxpayer money and would mar the view of the New York City skyline.

The proposed $12 million design for "Empty Sky" includes two 30-foot-high steel walls in line with where the World Trade Center towers stood. The names of the 744 New Jersey residents who died in the attacks would be engraved on the walls.

The group says 750 trees were planted as a Grove of Remembrance in Jersey City that should serve as the state's 9/11 monument.

Arguments in a lawsuit that the group filed two years ago are pending.

Enough Memorializing already. Aren't the deaths of hundreds of thousands killed as a result of these 2 buildings quite enough?

Does every city in the United States need 2 or 3 ugly reminders? (Of course I am purposely neglecting the fact that the major purpose of Memorials is to enrich those that plan and construct them.)

I thought the ugliest and stupidest memorial ever was the kitsch Polish soldier in Exchange Place with the bayonnetted rifle stuck through him but this 9/11 boner wins the prize hands down.

Little Johnny: "But Mommy, how come I can't see the Statue of Liberty?"
Mommy: "It's right behind that ugly black wall, Johnny."

It was almost 8 years ago. If they haven't already built a memorial, they shouldn't even bother.

The concept as designed and sold by the architect has a very serious problem which is that the "Empty Sky" a person moving through the memorial is supposed to experience will not be such when (and if) the WTC site is rebuilt per current plans.

I have to say I don't really "get" this memorial either.... seems like its just going to be two big huge wall of steel. I understand that if you stand at one certain spot it will frame out the location of the WTC stood but it just seems really large and ugly - the marriott ones are at least nicer looking and could include a garden or other natural elements

to be honest while ruining the view is not a good thing to me its more about how ugly this proposed monument is.... I can only image what the other options were if a giant block of steel won?

love how they proponents say it is in one small spot... that just happens to have the best view of the city... they should put the memorial in a section of the park that will draw more people away from the congested area... this will utuilze the park/space in a more efficent allowing people view the city... some area like that grassy knoll on heading south after Ellis Bridge, but before the preserve conservation wetlands. It already gives them the elevation they need.

I'm just not clear why we need another memorial with this design.

Anyone who has been to so called 'town square' in Newport has seen this:

http://www.marriott.com/hotels/photo- ... nw&pageID=HWARI&imageID=4

http://cache.marriott.com/propertyima ... rnw_phototour17.jpg?Log=1

Same concept with posts that point your eyes to the location of the missing towers and it was built, what, 6 years ago?

At least come up with a new idea.

Again, it should be made clear that there are many of us who believe the monument should go forth as planned. We understand the opposition and the right to oppose. But Liberty State Park has miles of unobstructed views of the New York skyline. The monument is located in one very small part of that space.

CALL TO QUIT MEMORIAL
Park Friends demonstrate but supporters turn out too

Thursday, May 28, 2009
By JAMIE SCHUH
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

Volunteers with the Friends of Liberty State Park gathered along the park's waterfront yesterday to voice concern over "Empty Sky," the state's proposed 9/11 memorial.

"Our main message is that the governor, in this severe economic crisis, is wasting $700,000 of taxpayers' money on the continuing of the New York City skyline view-blocking memorial," said Sam Pesin, president of FOLSP.

The $700,000 is earmarked to pay for landscaping around the proposed $12 million monument, which would consist of two 30-foot high, 200-foot long steel walls - walls the group claims would block "sacred" and "dramatic" views of Ground Zero and the Manhattan skyline.

FOLSP filed a lawsuit to stop the project more two years ago on the grounds that the state sought and obtained the wrong permit applications from the state Department of Environmental Protection to get the project built. Oral arguments in the case are still pending in state appellate court. FOLSP leaders also say the state pursued a permit process that didn't allow for public hearings.

Yesterday's protest attracted close to 100 people, some toting signs and shouting in agreement as Pesin called the view of the skyline "a national treasure."

Tanya Chauhan, a Jersey City resident and survivor of the World Trade Center attacks, said the park already has a more than adequate memorial.

"We have the Grove of Remembrance," Chauhan said, referring to the 750 trees planted close to the Central Railroad of New Jersey Terminal in 2003 in memory of those lost in the attacks. "It's extremely peaceful and private."

Pesin suggested alternative sites for the Empty Sky, including the lawn just to the east of the Grove of Remembrance.

But not everyone was in harmony with yesterday's protest. On the other side of Audrey Zapp Drive a smaller group spoke out in favor of the monument.

"FOLSP had a frivolous lawsuit against the state and the proposed monument, and we encourage them to embrace our project (Empty Sky)," said Betsy Parks, a Bayonne resident and an activist who lost her brother during the 9/11 attacks.

"This is for the whole state," said Faith Miller, another counter-protester. "That part (of the park) is our sacred center."

from one angle, the memorial looks like the twin towers. that's macabre.

from most angles, they look like tombstones. that's macabre-er

Here are some things I want to get across about my objection to this stupid memorial. In no particular order:

1) We have a few nice ones already. I?m particularly fond of the couple of twisted structural steel pieces from the actual buildings. There are a few here in town. Also the Journal Square fountain comes to mind, with the engraved names of Jersey City victims.
2) The proposed monstrosity was chosen, at least in part (by my understanding of the matter), by family members of victims. I?m going to sound like a jerk for saying this, but please can someone tell me how being related to someone that died in the tragedy makes you somehow good at judging the artistic merit of a sculpture? Can any of these people give me directions to a local art museum or name a single living sculptor of note? I doubt it. Going further, did any of them ever visit the park before the tragedy, as so many of us did and still do?
3) The poorly rendered Photoshop of how the memorial will appear. Look at all the millions of dollars involved and then look at the actual artwork being circulated. The ?artists rendering? set up on a piece of askew plywood at the site of the memorial is a bad pastiche, the vanishing point of the background photograph of lower Manhattan clashes with the vanishing point of the poorly rendered computer graphic of the proposed metal canyon. Human figures are rendered as identical bizarre white two dimensional cut outs. Sloppy and lazy and it burns me to think that the people involved in this thing think this is good enough. I?m sure if you submitted that rendering at any Art or Architecture school of repute, you would get a poor grade. Anyone in the industry could do better, and you would have to be particularly lazy and perhaps hung over to do worse.
4) The two dimensional thinking involved in the underlying concept. The piece will only make sense if you are standing at the South West end of the thing, looking along it?s axis at the World Trade Center site. If you are looking at it from any other angle, you will be looking at a giant earthen berm. So it has that going for it. Which is to say it?s just wrong. Paintings you can limit yourself to one viewing angle, but sculpture is a three dimensional medium. This is just a trough and you can only view it from one point, What are you going to see if you site down the things axis from the river looking back at the land?
5) This one I?m more obscure about but I do remember it in the news years ago. The names of the known victims were going to be etched into the steel walls and some misguided person or committee decided the names should NOT be arranged in alphabetical order. I forget why. Maybe I am remembering this part wrong but if it?s true it?s just one more reason to hate this giant ugly bloated poorly conceived overbudget cancer of a memorial.
6) I say all these things and I?m sure my bitterness is apparent. But I do care about the underlying concept. I was hurt by the events of September 11th 2001 ,I know I will never get over it. The scars will never go away. That?s why I hate this stupid pile of crap.

I'm cutting and pasting a coment I made on the recent "emergency Drill" the Portly Athority ran a week or so ago, it's pertinant to this thread:

A two hour drill with eight hundred people participating! Makes me want to go down there and play a ?Victim? with ketchup all over me! Later, I will insist on participating in the planning and execution of an emergency drill 2009 make believe memorial. I think I will insist they build it in some much beloved park, one I never use myself, and then cause lots of grief and unnecessary trouble as my poorly conceived and ugly memorial stalls just after ground is broken and the fences go up. Then for an encore, I will announce the memorial is also grossly over budget. How?s that for realism?

I just don't understand why it needs to be so damn tall. Writing to the governor (even if I am late).

wow I never heard of this but jesus that sounds like the worst memorial ever. A 30 foot high wall to purposely block your view of manhattan. wtf. I may take an early lunch break to check out this protest.

Fifteen years after Gorbachev dismantled the Soviet Union, the West is going to memorialize democracy by a tribute to the World Trade Center disaster. And what do they decide to use? AN IRON CURTAIN.

The irony is palpable, on MANY levels...and perhaps quite apt.

This would ruin the first & the best view for tourists visiting Liberty State Park - not to even point out that once the new tower is built this whole "Empty Sky" concept will be lost! If suburbanites must build this dumb thing - please ruin some other part of the park!


Quote:

The protest is fine but don't underestimate the numbers who are behind this memorial. Our reasoning is that the park has many other vantage points to view the city skyline.

LSP Memorial Protest

The Friends of Liberty State Park invites the public to join the FOLSP at their May 27 protest at 10:30 a.m. at the end of Audrey Zapp Drive, near the former site of the Public Plaza.

The FOLSP is protesting the Governor?s spending another $700,000 on site preparation work for ?Empty Sky,? the 9/11 memorial the state proposes to build in the park. The memorial includes two steel walls, 30 ft high and 200 ft long, to be inserted into a hill.

The FOLSP is currently engaged in a lawsuit challenging the DEP?s construction permit, which if successful would put a halt to the memorial project. The FOLSP have complained for several years that the hill and walls block panoramic NYC skyline views. The FOLSP is calling for the hill to be removed and the Public Plaza rebuilt and for the memorial to be relocated after public hearings, perhaps near the existing 9/11 memorial in the park, the 750-tree Grove of Remembrance.

For more information, email Sam at pesinliberty@earthlink.net or call (201) 792-1993.

Planned 9/11 Memorial in Jersey City Faces Many Uncertainties


The 1.6-acre fenced site in Liberty State Park in Jersey City is the planned home for a Sept. 11 memorial.

The New York Times
By JENNIFER V. HUGHES
Published: April 17, 2009

IN September 2004 Gov. James E. McGreevey used a ceremonial shovel to break ground for the New Jersey 9/11 Memorial called ?Empty Sky.?

But more than four years later, little has happened at the 1.6-acre site on the eastern edge of Liberty State Park that is now ringed with an 8-foot fence. Because of a pending legal dispute, a larger-than-expected price tag and a daunting fund-raising challenge, the future of the memorial could even be in doubt.

The design for the memorial includes two steel walls 30 feet high and 200 feet long. The walls, which line up with where the World Trade Center towers stood, will be engraved with the names of 744 from New Jersey who died there.

Originally, the memorial?s cost was estimated at $15 million, but the eventual price tag could range from $18 to $22 million because the cost of the marine-grade steel planned for the project has been fluctuating over the years, said Rick Cahill, chairman of the New Jersey 9/11 Memorial Foundation.

The state of New Jersey and the Port Authority have contributed a total of $13 million. The foundation expects no more state funds and must raise $12 million to build the memorial and establish an endowment. So far, it has raised $15,000. Mr. Cahill, whose son Scott worked in the north tower and died there, said his group was undeterred.

?We have to feel confident,? he said. ?I don?t want to think of the alternative.?

The Friends of Liberty State Park, a nonprofit group that supports the park, filed an appeal in March 2007 with the state Superior Court?s Appellate Division contending that the state failed to issue itself the proper permit for the memorial.

The park group?s main complaint is that the memorial will block the New York skyline, said Sam Pesin, the group?s president, who is also the son of the park?s founder, Morris Pesin.

?This is one of the most important urban skyline views in the world, and it should not be blocked,? Mr. Pesin said.

He argued the memorial could be moved to another location in the park or the state could scrap the plan and rely on an existing memorial in the park about a mile away.

Mr. Cahill countered that park visitors can see unobstructed skyline views from more than a mile of the park?s walkway, which continues in front of the memorial. Visitors can simply walk around the memorial to see the skyline.

?I just don?t get the argument,? he said.

The parks group argues that the state Department of Environmental Protection gave itself what is known as a coastal general permit, said Cynthia Hadjiyannis, a lawyer for the group. That type of permit is typically given for smaller projects, she said.

In contrast, an individual waterfront development permit would have required the D.E.P. to hold public hearings. Ms. Hadjiyannis also said the state should have sought approval from the Historic Preservation office because the site is within 100 yards of the Central Railroad of New Jersey terminal, which is on the state and national registry of historic places. Seeking such approval is another step that would have triggered a chance for the public to object.

?There should have been public hearings for a public memorial in a public park that is in the shadow of the Statue of Liberty, the world?s greatest symbol of democracy,? said Mr. Pesin. The state attorney general?s office, which is defending the state?s actions, declined to comment. But in a legal brief, lawyers for the state argued that Mr. Pesin and his group knew about the location of the memorial because it was integral to the design contest and Mr. Pesin himself put in an entry. While there were no specific public hearings on the memorial, the brief states the design contest was publicized in newspapers statewide and on government Web sites.

The brief states the permit process was proper and no notification to the historic preservation office was required because the site will have no physical effect on those areas. Furthermore, the state said the park group?s appeal was filed almost a year after the permit was issued, well beyond a 45-day statute of limitations.

The park group is not the only one to object to the memorial. In May, the Hudson County legislative delegation wrote to Gov. Jon S. Corzine criticizing the memorial for blocking views and for its cost.

If the memorial survives the legal challenge, the fiscal ones remain. Mr. Cahill said the memorial foundation was formed in June 2008 because it was only in the fall of 2007 that he learned the state would not cover the total cost.

?We missed out on two years of fund-raising,? he said. The group will be meeting with professional fund-raisers in the coming weeks.

Jersey City 9/11 memorial stalled



The Associated Press

JERSEY CITY, N.J. -

The Associated Press

A proposed 9/11 memorial called "Empty Sky" that was planned for the Jersey City waterfront has suffered some setbacks.

The New York Times reports in its Sunday editions that little work has been done on the 1.6-acre site at Liberty State Park. The proposed design includes two steel walls in line with where the World Trade Center towers stood and engraved with the names of the 744 New Jersey residents that died in the attacks.

A pending legal dispute, an estimated price that has increased from $15 million to $22 million, and challenges in raising funds have stalled the memorial.

The state of New Jersey and the Port Authority have contributed $13 million to the project.

Former Gov. James McGreevey broke ground on the site in Sept. 2004.

=============

Future is tenuous for 9/11 memorial in Jersey City

by The Star-Ledger Continuous News Desk
Sunday April 19, 2009, 10:24 AM

Four years after the groundbreaking for the 9/11 Memorial in Jersey City called "Empty Sky," there is little to show for it at the 1.6-acre site on Liberty State Park, according to a report in The New York Times.


The future of the memorial is in doubt because of a pending legal dispute, an expanding price tag and a daunting fund-raising challenge, the paper reported.

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