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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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SonOfPizzazz wrote:
4/27 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!


Too soon?

Posted on: 2009/4/27 17:03
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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This couldn't have been done on a Sunday morning?

Posted on: 2009/4/27 16:51
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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4/27 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!

Posted on: 2009/4/27 16:49
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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looks like the jcpd were confused too. per the email, they said it was a military training exercise, when in fact it was a photo op.

So if they received advanced warning, how could they misrepresent such facts? photo op vs military training. That's a pretty big difference no?

Posted on: 2009/4/27 16:48
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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Update: New video. I should have known.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGGhLihDmFk


Whoever this "Ghostrider" idiot is, he's dangerous.

Posted on: 2009/4/27 16:45
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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Quote:

GeorgeWBush wrote:

But they didn't, and I think the fact that PA, NYPD, JCPD, NJSP, etc etc etc all appear to have been surprised by this tells you that the outbound communication, if it happened at all, wasn't positioned in a way to give the consumer of that information a real idea as to how big a scene this was really going to be.
..


There's conflicting information, but seems that the FAA and others wanted to keep it a secret:

The NYPD told CBS 2, however, that they were instructed by the FAA not to publicize information regarding the incident.

in the same article:
Amy in Jersey City wrote: "I work in the 30 Hudson building in Jersey City, on the side that faces the Statue of Liberty. Our group is on one of the top floors and needless to say we probably had some of the best views of this incident. We were conducting work as normal when all of a sudden we see this huge commerical plane coming at us. People were ducking and on the floor because it came so close. The plane flew right over us and couldn't have missed the building by more than 100 feet. Then we heard people scream it was coming back. The plane literally looked like it was going to barrel into our building coming straight at us until it turned upwards at the last minute. I can't believe I saw the underbelly of a plane fly over me. When it started coming back a 3rd time, we ran for the stairs. It's safe to say we are pretty angry about having to evacuate and go down 30+ flights of stairs for a 'photo shoot.' What a start to the week."

http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/ ... ry.jets.nyc.2.995375.html

Posted on: 2009/4/27 16:41
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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saabconv wrote:
Apparently Bo wanted to see the statue of liberty with Sasha and the other one. So I'll meet you there in four years when this idiot is out of office.....
could you stop hating and criticizing for everything he wasn't even in the plane.

Apparently the police and everybody knew but weren't allowed to tell people (probably for security reasons?). It really sucks still and I wish they had told everyone instead of just letting thousands of us get freaked out when a plane flew right by our building.

Posted on: 2009/4/27 16:33
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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Now you owe me a date and you have to pick me up in Air Force 1.

You can leave the non-Saab at home you northeast latte-drinking, Scandanavian car-driving, yuppie bistro-frequenting liberal... but really, pick me up tonite. Off to White Mana in Air Force One, suckaz.


Alanwright - you are so in love with me. Lets get some things straight - I can't drink coffee - gives me the jitters; my car is Japanese; I am hardly liberal. And if I WERE to pick you up in Air Force One - it would have been under the Bush Administration when things were done right - no fly-by's without telling anybody. Apparently Bo wanted to see the statue of liberty with Sasha and the other one. So I'll meet you there in four years when this idiot is out of office.....

Posted on: 2009/4/27 16:30
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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re: that email- Yeah, no. It's obvious just from this thread alone that the flights occured prior to that 10:10am email. GrovePath's first post was at 10:06.


Even if it was sent out 20 minutes prior, that's no where near an appropriate amount of time.

I am guessing that it's going to work like this: DoD and FAA did send out an informational, but they probably send out 20 a month for different little ticky tacky things. It was duly received by PA, NYPD, JCPD and filed under, "Don't worry about it until someone calls"...you can't have everyone know about everything at all times.

The problem was that this wasn't a "3 helicopters are going to be flying over the tunnel" type event- It was, "Air Force One is going to be tear-assing around Manhattan with 2 fighters on it at about 3000 feet."

What needed to happen is that whoever was putting the info out to the various agencies should have put, "Seriously- No effing around, I know we spam you guys but please read this one, no joke, this little event is going to be pretty serious".

But they didn't, and I think the fact that PA, NYPD, JCPD, NJSP, etc etc etc all appear to have been surprised by this tells you that the outbound communication, if it happened at all, wasn't positioned in a way to give the consumer of that information a real idea as to how big a scene this was really going to be.


I mean, not every agency can be 100% dropping the ball on the same day over the same issue, right?

....right???

Posted on: 2009/4/27 16:11
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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Oops!

Quote:

LTV wrote:
There was an email sent out to offices in newport tower. I assume it went to other buildings in the area, as well.


Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 10:10 AM
To: east
Subject: Military Training

Please be advised there is currently military aircraft flying over the
waterfront area, Jersey City, FOR TRAINING PURPOSES ONLY. No need to
evacuate or create alarm. AGAIN, this is for training purposes only.

P.O. Dina Reilly
Jersey City Police Department
East District Community Relations Officer

Posted on: 2009/4/27 15:52
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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Quote:

GrovePath wrote:
That photo clearly shows that the plane is painted up as Air Force One (click to enlarge) - and since the media is now saying the 747 is a military plane - it must be one of the two 747's used as Air Force One planes....

Resized Image

I hope for Obama's sake he isn't really on that plane - showing off for a foreign dignitary or something - it won't sit well with New Yorkers if it comes out later...

....and I agree - there are NO helicopters -- so how is this a photo shoot???

In any event, I doubt the military likes to have people know where the second Air Force One plane is - so doing this wouldn't make sense even if the president isn't on it - and I bet Air Force One always has a fighter escort while the President is on board.


I meant that the helicopters would be positioned to film from - not that they would be used as chase planes. And .. yeah I doubt Obama was taking snapshots -- whatever it really was we will all find out soon!
==========================
Here is the Jersey Journal:

Update: Jet spotted over Jersey City confirmed as Air Force One

by The Jersey Journal
Monday April 27, 2009, 11:36 AM

An Air Force spokesman has confirmed the jet being escorted by fighter planes over Jersey City this morning was Air Force One.

Air Force One, the plane that carries the president of the United States, was in the area as part of a photo shoot, said Vincent King, Jr., an Air Force spokesman.

"In coordination with the Federal Aviation Administration, the Presidential Airlift Group conducted a aerial photo mission in the New York City area," he said. An F-16 guarded the president's personal aircraft.

Jersey City Police have confirmed they received advanced notification of the photo shoot, but could not release information because it was classified.

Posted on: 2009/4/27 15:51
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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Quote:

....and I agree - there are NO helicopters -- so how is this a photo shoot???


Helicopters can't be used because they can't keep up with a 747. A typical, non-military, helicopter tops out around 140-150 knots. For AF1 to go that slow it would have to have flaps out almost fully to avoid a stall..

Air-to-Air photography is usually done using another plane. Although in this case that would mean having the camera in the fighter jet which doesn't make sense. Or Obama could have been taking pictures of the fighter jet over NYC for his scrap book.

Posted on: 2009/4/27 15:46
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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There was an email sent out to offices in newport tower. I assume it went to other buildings in the area, as well.


Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 10:10 AM
To: east
Subject: Military Training

Please be advised there is currently military aircraft flying over the
waterfront area, Jersey City, FOR TRAINING PURPOSES ONLY. No need to
evacuate or create alarm. AGAIN, this is for training purposes only.

P.O. Dina Reilly
Jersey City Police Department
East District Community Relations Officer

Posted on: 2009/4/27 15:46
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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saabconv wrote:

Quote:

Now you owe me a date and you have to pick me up in Air Force 1.

You can leave the non-Saab at home you northeast latte-drinking, Scandanavian car-driving, yuppie bistro-frequenting liberal... but really, pick me up tonite. Off to White Mana in Air Force One, suckaz.

Posted on: 2009/4/27 15:45
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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Posted on: 2009/4/27 15:40
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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If this woke Mayor Healy up, you can be sure someone's head will roll.

Posted on: 2009/4/27 15:26
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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wtf all this for a photo op? are those guys just batsht crazy?

the entire downtown waterfront area was evacuated for almost the whole morning, and NOONE knew what the hell is going on, not even the head of building/company securities.

again W T F

Posted on: 2009/4/27 15:14
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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BS they didnt know. I spoke with someone at the DoD and they said the mayor would have been given a heads up! I actually heard from a cop outside my building that it was a photo op 10 minutes after the plane flew over.

Posted on: 2009/4/27 15:11
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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That photo clearly shows that the plane is painted up as Air Force One (click to enlarge) - and since the media is now saying the 747 is a military plane - it must be one of the two 747's used as Air Force One planes....

Resized Image

I hope for Obama's sake he isn't really on that plane - showing off for a foreign dignitary or something - it won't sit well with New Yorkers if it comes out later...

....and I agree - there are NO helicopters -- so how is this a photo shoot???

In any event, I doubt the military likes to have people know where the second Air Force One plane is - so doing this wouldn't make sense even if the president isn't on it - and I bet Air Force One always has a fighter escort while the President is on board.

Posted on: 2009/4/27 15:11
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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Photos were just posted on the WSJ blog site

Planes flying near Trump & Marbella bldgs:

Resized Image

Planes flying over Staten Island (is that an island?)
Resized Image

Posted on: 2009/4/27 14:58
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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It sounds like the JCPD did not know either:


F-16s Buzz Lady Liberty; Put City on Edge

By BRIAN THOMPSON

Updated 10:51 AM EDT, Mon, Apr 27, 2009

It wasn't even a drill. It was a photo op.

Air force F-16s circled the Statue of Liberty in New york harbor this morning, halting work on nearby construction sites and giving thousands of people in downtown Manhattan and New Jersey quite the scare.

But the Federal Aviation Administration said there was no reason for alarm, even thousands of people saw the two fighter jets circle the statue, along with a VC-25, the military version of Boeing's 747 jumbo jet, and immediately thought the worst.

"Thousands" of people n the streets of Jersey City were set into a panic, said Stan Eason of the Jersey City Police Department. Buildings were evacuated because residents were unaware what was going on, Eason said.

Eason was checking to see if any authorities were notified. They received a number of calls and were prompted to call the FAA.

"They were making two, maybe three passes," FAA spokesman Jim Peters told News 4 New York . "The DOD [ Department of Defense] and the FAA worked this all out in advance."

No word on where the photo op will show up.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ ... rty-Put-City-on-Edge.html

Posted on: 2009/4/27 14:58
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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Is it that hard to perhaps mention on the news that this was happening today?

Posted on: 2009/4/27 14:54
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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Way to go Obama administration

Posted on: 2009/4/27 14:52
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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Photo shoot my ass. Why would they endanger the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in two cities for a photo shoot? Something is not kosher.

Posted on: 2009/4/27 14:51
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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"The Federal Aviation Administration confirmed that two F-16s and another military aircraft were part of the Department of Defense photo shoot."

There may have been 2 fighters, but I only ever saw one. It was immediately off the left side of the tail of the 747. This was the same for all 3 passes.

Posted on: 2009/4/27 14:46
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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They're saying it was for a photo op. A-holes: http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ets_escorting_planes.html

Posted on: 2009/4/27 14:40
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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From wcbstv.com:

Apr 27, 2009 10:36 am US/Eastern

Military Jets Flying Over NYC Part Of Photo Shoot

NEW YORK (CBS) ―

Some military aircraft flying over lower Manhattan caused a brief scare for residents on Monday, but CBS 2 has learned the jets are part of a Department of Defense photo shoot and that there is no threat to the city.

According to witnesses, the aircraft were seen flying about 10 a.m. over the Statue of Liberty and parts of lower Manhattan. The Federal Aviation Administration confirmed that two F-16s and another military aircraft were part of the Department of Defense photo shoot.

Some residents and workers who saw the jets evacuated their buildings as a result, but officials say there is no reason for a panic.

http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/ ... ry.jets.nyc.2.995375.html

Posted on: 2009/4/27 14:40
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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we all exavuated by harbourside plaza. Cops told us its okay and that it was a military excercise. We're back in the office now. Everyone is out on the streets.

Posted on: 2009/4/27 14:39
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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It was Air Force 1, or at least whatever AF1 is called when the President isn't on it.

Of course, rumors run wild, but now the story is it was a photo op, a training exercise, or a combination of the two.

I understand the need to train the pilots who drive our President, and maybe there's a real good reason why it had to be done where it was done, number 1, and number 2 why they couldn't give anyone advanced noticed..which apparently was the case.

But I would like to hear those reasons, because frankly, that was bullshit without some good ones- People were piling out of buildings like their lives depended on it, and that's just here- I am sure all over Manhattan and the Waterfront the same thing happened. Even now there are huge crowds of people outside trying to get back in their buildings.

EDIT: Update from the Journal.

http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2009/ ... jet-over-lower-manhattan/


Photo op? Oh, someone needs to lose their job then.

Not to boo hoo hoo it, but alot of us were here 8 years ago... same kind of feeling, glad it was a different result- But someone's a major league idiot for springing this on a population that probably numbers over 25 million on a week day (NYC, JC, Newark, all points in between).

Original headline said the PA had no idea it was going on, but they took that down, so maybe they did.

Re: Red tailed jet- Tuskegee Airmen? Do we have some sort of "legacy" squadron in the airforce? That would be kinda cool.

Posted on: 2009/4/27 14:38
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Re: Why is there a new flight path today - low commercial planes towards EWR
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So, just like you, I heard the house shake as the plane got closer. From my living room on the 5th floor, I have a clear view to the south, since there are no buildings taller than mine in that direction. The plane was making a counterclockwise circle, coming from about the Verrazano-Narrows, turning in JC, and then heading toward Newark. I lost sight of it only because of the haze but would have been able to see the full circle on a clear day. Three things got my attention right away: it was very low, it was not a commercial plane, and, of course, the fighter escort. Also, the fighter had a red tail and the plane had a white hull with blue and turquoise underbelly. That's when I realized it looked like Air Force One.

Next time the plane came around, I was ready with my binoculars. This time, I could see the seal on the right/starboard side of the plane. The plane made 3 counterclockwise circles total and hasn't been back since. This actually made me less worried because if it were a real emergency or something was wrong, more fighters would have arrived by then and they would not have let the plane circle that low and that close to the city three times.

Anyway, I have no idea why they would do that, but it was either AF1 or a 747 painted to look like it. I looked for planes or helicopters that could have been filming and didn't see any, though I see someone else has posted that it was a photo shoot.

Posted on: 2009/4/27 14:38
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