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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Just can't stay away
 
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Our council office has received several questions about the Backflow Preventor installation policy that some residents were notified of recently.
I will send out an email this week notifying residents, however for those that don?t get my email notifications on JCLIST, I have arranged an informational session for those concerned to take place in the City Hall Caucus room on March 30th at 630pm. We have confirmed that the MUA and Construction office will both attend to answer questions and explain the policy in detail. please email me at fulops@jcnj.org should you have any specific questions you would like me pass on before the meeting to those two departments Sincerely Steven Fulop Councilman Ward "E"
Posted on: 2009/3/15 12:14
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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Whatever union its is the steam fitters, plumbers etc etc.
If anyone is really questioning the corrupt relationship between unions and politicians you should just your put head back in the sand. This backflow program is complete B.S. If anything the City should pick up the tab. the nationwide sprinkler initiative and this local backlflow preventor scam is being pushed by these unions and politicians. Thats a fact. I love how the city sends a 1 page letter that doesnt explain squat but helay just sent a 4 page color brochure about how great JCPD is under his watch. get this bafoon out.
Posted on: 2009/3/14 15:56
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Just can't stay away
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We recently got a quote on installing backflow preventors in our small condo. The damage: $11,500.
What I was told (and I can't vouch for the accuracy of this) in my request for quotes and discussions with JC officials is: 1. The law requiring backflow preventors is 12-13 years old. However, if was not enforced until recently. 2. The state is cracking down and requiring yearly sprinkler inspections because of recent fatal fires. 3. Neither Hoboken nor Newark require backflow preventors. One contractor told me that there was virtually no chance that sprinkler water would get into the drinking water system and considered the whole program to be a waste. Make of it what you will.
Posted on: 2009/3/14 3:20
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Newbie
 
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It's a full employment act for plumbers. I just got quoted $13,000 for one building!
I'd really like to know how many times water pressure dropped so low that sprinkler systems backed into the supply...
Posted on: 2009/3/14 1:15
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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I think a few of the new political posters on here could really use a backflow preventer.
Posted on: 2009/3/13 8:52
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Actually for the job we were requested to do by the city, engineering would be involved. What they are asking us to do, which I still don't fully understand, is going to cost LOTS of money.
Posted on: 2009/3/13 6:06
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Me too. There must be something about this that I'm not getting, like the backvalve has to be a special high pressure valve for a four inch sprinkler pipe with an alarm that contacts the fire department. The prices that people are tossing around make no sense to me. What I picture a backvalve on the water supply to be should cost about $40 and I could install it in about an hour and a half on the 1 inch copper pipe coming into my basement, right after the shutoff valve. Can someone who has gotten this letter, had the work done, and is able to explain what was done, weigh in on this? I'm curious.
Posted on: 2009/3/13 2:40
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Because that would make FAR too much sense. Why add $5 to the cost of the meter (and then pass on the cost) when you can force the homeowners to spend tens of thousands of their money? Seriously, utilities think this way. That's why to install a remotely read gas meter you'll be charged hundreds of dollars plus a monthly fee to save them the trouble of sending a person to read it. Comcast will send a disconnection monkey before actually bothering to email you that your card has expired.
Posted on: 2009/3/13 2:07
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Not too shy to talk
 
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New Heights,
I am as much of a cynic as anyone, but I think the kickback theory is alittle bit of stretch. Iron workers don't install sprinkler systems. Plumbers sometimes do, but typically it's a sprinkler fitters job.
Posted on: 2009/3/13 1:55
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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I'm a little confused about this subject. Are we talking about backflow preventers on fire sprinkler systems to keep the scuzzy rusty sprinkler pipe water out of the potable supply or backflow from the domestic house piping from entering the public system? If it's just the house water, why can't the check valve be built into the meter? Last time they changed my meter it took all of 5 min and the Egyptian French water company paid for it.
Posted on: 2009/3/12 23:59
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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Quote:
They would not only have to be in the tainted water, but also be open when the system loses pressure. For 100+ years we have survived without backflow preventers and there weren't cholera epidemics in JC (at least not too many!). I'm positive they're a good idea and cost effective for new construction or as part of a new service, but to force a small building into tens of thousands in compliance expenditures out of the blue? They would never had tried this 15 years ago when $40k was 25% the cost of an average JC multifamily.
Posted on: 2009/3/12 23:29
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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Xerxes - Research "back siphonage."
Brewster - If you can't imagine somebody leaving a garden hose in the toilet, but about a shower wand in a full tub? Maybe the kitchen sink wand in a similar situation? Or how about a hose bibb in a flooded basement? Backflow isn't just highly plausible, it happens. Keep in mind that we cannot assume that all potable water and sanitary drainage systems are well designed, constructed and maintained. A backflow preventer prevents the worst from happening in the event of a mistake, malfunction, or unforseen event. Installing a backflow preventer isn't just a good idea, it's a common sense method to protect our shared water supply.
Posted on: 2009/3/12 21:28
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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Quote:
The FD's have been fighting this battle since building codes were invented causing a steady decline in their work since. But God forbid you try and close a station house!! I DO respect the work, but these days if often amounts to a part time job of two 24 shifts (in IIRC 10 days), with most having time for another full time job in construction or bartending or whatever, and an early retirement with great benefits, since 1 in 5 firemen are currently a chief or higher. As for the question of the reasoning for the preventer, as far as I can tell it's in case there's a loss of line pressure, to prevent a siphoning of something back into the lines somehow. But I agree it's hard to come up with the scenario of the hose with it's end in the toilet. It sounds like we're buying zebra stampede insurance.
Posted on: 2009/3/12 20:56
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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GnomeGeneral- Here Yee
. That reminds me of a few months back when I was at the County Clerks office filing a condo master deed. one of the city employees (older dopey guy) says to the woman behind the desk, "just what we need another condo building in Jersey City) I kept my mouth shut but of course inside was laughing at this brainless zombie. Don't these nitwits realize that condo owners give the most to the city and take the least. Most but not all condo owners are either single. childless or put their children in private school. They also pay the highest property taxes per sq ft in the city. they also put more into the local economy ie shopping, dining etc. often times these condo owners live in converted /renovated lower income rental buildings where as previously it was occupied by a family of 8plus living in the apartment. these families are usually on section 8 or some type of govt assistance and dont pay any taxes but use the schools.Not to mention the need for increased police force and prisons and other burdens placed on the tax payers by this disfunctional welfare system. Its us, the taxpayers that picks up the tab coming and going. . FYI im not a condo owner but I do know condos are better than the alternative.
Posted on: 2009/3/12 16:58
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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Hah, so on point. What these idiots don't understand is that they are going to drive out all the people that make this town worth anything.
Posted on: 2009/3/12 16:41
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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This is just another case of govt pretending to look out for the citizens but are actually screwing us. No question the plumbers union is giving kickbacks to the local politicians to create work.
A similiar situation is happening on a national level. The iron workers union is lobbying for sprinkler systems in every multifamily building in the entire country. They are teaming up with the fire chiefs , mayors etc to push for it on a city , state and ultimately national level. sounds great on paper but it costs hundreds of thousands for landlords already faced with increased costs and rent regulations. What the politicians arent telling the tenants(the ones they are looking out for.. wink wink) is that its a capital improvement and the tenants will ultimately pick up the bill. I say if politicians want to pass these laws thats fine but the state should have to give fixed rate loans to the landlords,associations etc, (stimulus $$$ ?) im sure obama can somehow say it will create jobs) and allow the landlord to pass along the capital improvement to the tenant. not to mention how many bars, restaurants and businesses will be forced to close down or pass the cost on to the customers. Its already happening in the states that have passed this. Also since all buildings will be sprinkled, I guess we wont need such a large fire dept. That should save the tax payers a bundle. Once the fire dept unions get wind of that........
Posted on: 2009/3/12 16:11
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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Has anyone acted on this letter and dropped the money required to have this replaced? I don't think the city understands how much this really costs with the blueprints, police...etc. Also, I don't think they understand what it is they actually want us to do. Is it something that can simply be performed by a plumber or is engineering involved. The cost varies between 2k vs. 22K. How is a building with 6 units supposed to afford that?! If enough people have received this letter and cannot afford this, is there some action that can be taken? Perhaps the city can extend the deadline or propose some sort of special loans?
Posted on: 2009/3/12 15:11
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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Can someone explain how one would get "backflow" into the potable water supply. From where? Sewer lines and clean water line have long been seperate, haven't they?
How is my bathtub water, my shower effluent, my toilet refuse, or my dishwasher water going to get back into the clean water pipes? I'm not a plumber but I DO know that these two piping systems have ALWAYS remained unconnected...it's the first rule of plumbing. So, in what instance is dirty water going to contaminate clean water? Splain, Lucy!
Posted on: 2009/3/12 14:08
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Newbie
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Hi,
My condo association just got one of these letters. Can anyone recommend some plumbers and give some price ranges for this kind of work? What is being requested sounds extreme.
Posted on: 2009/3/9 17:25
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Re: BackFlow Preventors
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Home away from home
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Be careful with plumbers and get many quotes and DON't wait to the last minute, many plumbers can smell desperation and will eat you alive.
Just think of Joe the plumber
Posted on: 2008/12/19 15:47
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Re: BackFlow Preventors
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Not too shy to talk
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It costed our association around $1500 the first time when United Water requested it and another $600-$800 two months later for a different version that can be tested by "The City of Jersey City". It seems the city just wants there share of the yearly inspections fees as well
 The whole thing was completed in about 4 hours or so.
Posted on: 2008/12/18 21:46
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Re: BackFlow Preventors
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Home away from home
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I am currently researching this issue. If anyone is seriously having issues , PM me and I will put in contact with who you need. Whether its plumbing or engineer., but first let me check on this.
One person got a quote for something that looks major...excavation, and engineer are very pricey. Also depends on what size building. There isn't just one quote for everyone...it depends on the job. I work in construction management , I deal with pricing all day everyday and I do hear the complaints but also the costs of this work is usually right on the money...... Like I said , I rather have people PM me and I will see what I can do. Good Luck
Posted on: 2008/12/18 21:12
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Re: BackFlow Preventors
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Home away from home
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Shouldnt the city offer grants or loans for this kind of crap? The city or state should loan the money to the association or landlord and charge a reasonable finance rate.
Rent control laws allow the landlord to pass this cost off to the tenant using a capital improvement formula. it's bad news for everyone in Jersey City if this really cost $30,000. Question: How many units was the condo building that cost $30,000 for the job? thanks
Posted on: 2008/12/18 21:06
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BackFlow Preventors
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Home away from home
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Is anyone familiar with the letters that were sent out to various buildings (associations) in Jersey City in regards to BackFlow Preventors.
The following letter was sent from the Office of the Construction Official : "The City of Jersey City is implementing a policy for BackFlow preventors. All structures that have backflow preventors are required to register them with this office and receive a certificate of compliance every year. The Consumer has the responsibility of preventing pollutants and contaminants from entering his/her potable water systems or the public potable water system. The consumers responsibility starts at the point of delivery from the public potable water system and includees all of his/her water systems. The consumer, at his/her own expense, shall install, operate, test and maintain approved backflow prevention assemblies as directed by the authority having jurisdiction. The consumer shall maintain accurate records of tests and repairs made to backflow prevention assemblies and provide the administrative authority having jurisdiction with copies of such records. The records shall be on forms approved by the administrative authority having jurisdiction and shall include the list of materials or replacement parts used. Following any repair, overhaul, re-piping or relocation of an assembly the consumer shall have it tested to insure that it is in good operating condition and will prevent backflow. Tests, maintenance and repairs of backflow prevention assemblies shall be made by a certified backflow prevention assembly tester. The fee for the certificate is $75 per annual inspection for each backflow preventor. For High Hazard Backflow Preventors the fee is $300. per year due to this agency having to do inspections and cerfificates every quarter. Please respond to this notice within 20 Business days. Failure to comply with this notice shall result in a penalty and/or court action. " ------------- I understand that a few condo associations have complied with this policy and have paid in excess of $30,000 to conduct water tests, hire engineers, and had new backflow preventers and new sprinker systems installed. But not all condo associations can cough up $30,000 to pay for costly engineers and a new sprinker system. I'm wondering how other people are dealing with this and if they're being asked to update their entire system? What kinds of penalty's do people face? Has anybody been taken to court? Was anybody's water shut off for not complying? And can anybody recommend an engineer? Thanks for any advice you can offer!
Posted on: 2008/12/18 18:56
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Newbie
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Can someone please recommend some honest plumbers I can call about quotes for my building. Our system is not up to code. I don't know anything about this and don't want to get gouged. I think the 45 day turn-around is way too short. It looks like I am going to get hit with a $500 penalty.
Thanks for any recommendations!
Posted on: 2008/12/14 19:24
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Newbie
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We got a proposal from one plumber for our building, but the proposal is basically stating we have to excavate the street, install new backflow preventors, install new alarms systems, install a sump pump, hire an engineer to get building and sewage plans for over $30,000. That is not including digging permits and police presence. That is a lot of money!
I think we need a second opinion.
Posted on: 2008/10/28 2:03
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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It's on the inside of the building but udrankwhat brings up good points about getting access to a spot to install. I could imagine that older buildings might not have the accessability and the pipes are probably old, complicating the job.
Posted on: 2008/10/27 19:56
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Umm, it sounds like you're describing a sewer check valve, rather than a potable water backflow preventer, but you're the plumber. Does the preventer go in the street at the mains connection or inside the foundation wall before the meter? If it's the latter, it doesn't sound like too big a deal.
Posted on: 2008/10/27 19:54
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Quite a regular
 
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Can anyone recommend a plumber capable of handling this?
Posted on: 2008/10/27 17:53
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Re: BackFlow Preventor installation policy from JC Office of the Construction Official?
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Not too shy to talk
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Our building has already gone through this and it was a pain in the ass. Paid a considerable sum to get it installed and will now have to pay about $150 a year to be inspected.
Posted on: 2008/10/27 17:35
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