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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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Posted on: 2007/8/26 16:32
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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character ass-ass-ination will be the only tool in court that the cops will have to discredit this guy. When it boils down to his word against the cops, the cops will have the resources to look at his whole life and even how many parking tickets he might have. Some JC cops are worse then criminals and their bosses are useless.

Posted on: 2007/8/25 10:17
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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Quote:

ratslayer wrote:
Perhaps those 2 perps the victim saw through his skylight were actually the 2 cop-thugs??!!

Hey, food for thought: I hear many JC cops who work the nightshift are jacked-up on coke and booze.


Scarier possibility: what if the "undercover cops" on the roof were actually cops who, while on duty, were trying to burglarize the apartment?

OK, probably not. But given the kind of corruption that must exist either on the police force or in the courts for the Wayne Street drug dealers to still be in business, it seems as if anything is possible.

Posted on: 2007/8/25 2:14
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUE
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Of course the officers "dispute" the fact that they didn't show badges - they're covering their asses. Sure it's possible that they really did, but that seems a much less likely scenario - that the cops actually properly followed procedure and the guy just bugged out for some unknown reason.

As for the Sean Bell case I only meant that there seemed to be a similar confusion resulting from the officer's initial failure to adequately identify themselves, not a similarity in magnitude of what happened.

Posted on: 2007/8/25 0:22
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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Ugh -- I hate this story. It makes me want to puke. The fact that you can't even be safe in your own home -- WHEN YOU CALL FOR HELP -- is just disgusting to me.

Just out of curiousity, so what if the victim was drinking? Last I checked, that's still legal, and if he was doing it in the privacy of his own home and not hurting anyone, why are the cops allowed to beat him into submission?!?!?!? Not sure what relevance it has to this at all. And as we heard, he doesn't partake in that kind of thing anyway.

Craige and Brewdroid, you guys are great friends to Matt and it's nice to see you telling his side of the story on his behalf. Please wish him a speedy recover and lots of luck and perserverance however he chooses to pursue this.

Posted on: 2007/8/25 0:04
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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I am a strong advocate for random drug and alcohol testing of Police Officers. (I mooted this topic some time ago and was ?shot? down by some JClisters)
I believe it should be part of any internal investigation that involves officer misconduct and that everything should be transparent to protect the public?s trust.

I would like to suggest that this topic should end and that any remarks made be left for the court room. It would appear that some of you could and should act as character reference for this chap.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 23:01
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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right on, rat!

Posted on: 2007/8/24 22:44
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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2 can play this game. Blame the victim. Accuse him of being on drugs .... These so-called officers who smashed up yer friend should be tested immediately for drugs and alcohol. Hair, pee, blood, whatever. What else can explain the officers' deranged, violent behavior? But of course, the JC cops aren't gonna allow that because in the end it's all about the cops, all about protecting their crimes and incompetence as well as their contempt for the public. Remember, there is a very fine line between the cops and criminals.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 22:41
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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C and B - can you check your PM (inbox)

Posted on: 2007/8/24 22:36
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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I have known Matt since we were in second grade. That's 1979, nearly 30 years ago. He has never once touched any drug or even the smallest drop of an alcoholic beverage.

I am an aficionado of high-end beer (Belgians, crafts, etc.) and he always gives me grief about the fact that I put what he calls "poisons" and "intoxicants" in my body. (I don't do any drugs, I'm just into beer, and I drink in moderation. I don't drink to get drunk. I appreciate fine beer like many people appreciate fine wine.) He's good-natured, and non-preachy about it because we are, after all close friends. It's more gentle ribbing than anything else.

But I will say he is very passionate about his opposition to drugs and alcohol, a position from which he has not wavered in his entire life. So the suggestion that he was "high" or "drunk" at the time of the incident is beyond unfounded. He doesn't even know what any type of alcoholic beverage tastes like, which is something very few of us can say.

He has even taken proactive measures to rid his neighborhood of the drug dealers and other sundry low-lifes who have set up shop there and polluted the quality of life.

The union he works for actually sends him on international trips to meet with high-level officials because his higher-ups know that he's probably the only one there who will walk the complete straight-and-narrow while he's away and not get distracted by any sort of drunken debauchery.

This is a man who, in his 20s and early 30s, put himself through college and graduate school, taking six classes per semester while working full time--with no breaks, mind you--and achieved a near-perfect grade point average. He didn't go immediately after college, but he left many of us who did in his tracks as he surpassed our scholastic achievement and career advancement thus far.

So, please, before you make any snap judgments about people's character, learn the facts. The fact is, he was the victim of some rather corrupt, brutal police officers who happen to be employed by what's probably the most corrupt government in the most notoriously corrupt county in the state of New Jersey.

I will not stand for such character assassination by dirty cops or message board posters.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 22:02
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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My friend has never used any illegal substances or alcohol in his life. He was stone cold sober, as he always is.

I am amused by how sitting by your computers you all have it all clear how A. cat burglers always act (you did your dissertation on them perhaps or are you one yourself?) and B. how you would act in the same situation. I (knock on wood) have never had my home burglarized, but I'm sure that if I did I would be so scared that I would probably freak out. If you have ever been home during a robbery, tell me honestly your pulse didn't sky rocket during that harrowing experience.

You folks can think what you want. All I know is that the JCPD said some very nasty things and did some completely uncalled for things to Matt and that he is in very bad shape physically right now (can't sit down for more than an hour or two without having muscle spasms) and has a hard time walking after sitting for a little while. Did I mention that one of the undercover cops twisted his foot around really hard and said to him something like, "Ever had your foot broken? I'll break it so bad you'll never walk right again." Does a good cop say something like that?

Yes, he was expecting the cops, but note that he heard sirens in the distance when he got to the door (ie, they were on their way, not there yet) and that these guys were at his door as soon as he dashed down 4 flights of stairs. They then rushed at him and screamed in his face, "did you call the cops?" (as the JJ reports). So, why should he assume these thug-looking guys were the cops he called? And what cops scream at you "did you call the cops?" and rush at you while saying it?

GrovePath, to answer your question about how the thug-like guys got in... The reason Matt ran downstairs was to let the cops in because he has no buzzer. He opened the door to wait outside and there the guys were.

And to the guy with the bad grammar whose comment didn't even make any sense -- whatever, dude. I just hope it's not you next time.

And finally, Matt has been to the doctor. His elbow is fractured. I'm not sure why the need to nitpick about his injuries, but there you go.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 21:23
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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if this guy was drugged or drunk the cops would have asked the hospital for piss and blood samples - my money is on that the cops ffccukked up.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 19:34
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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I wish him the best -- it sucks -- I just must say that I find it hard to believe how paranoid the victim (your friend) acted that night -- I am sure that even if the cops only asked me if I "called the police" I would have talked to them and then looked at their ID's. I know it sounds awful to ask but has he ever had any history of marijuana use or of paranoid behavior? Stress can bring out paranoia in some people. Even if I believe everything he said it still makes no sense to me. Cat burglars don't get seen trying to break into a skylight and then just decide to run down and bust in the front door and attack the occupant who caught them trying to break in. Also Cat burglars don't get "angry" because an occupant called the police. It is just odd thinking on the part of the victim.

I am sure it is how he sees it but he seems very immature or something else -- and it makes me doubt his version of things -- I have to wonder if it is possible that in his paranoid state if he could he have missed the cops telling him who they were and missed their id tags.

I feel for the guy and the cops might well be in the wrong here but I don't have enough info -- but by his own version of the story your friend proves he was acting very illogical that night and he clearly thought he was fighting criminals for his life. It is clearly NOT a good idea (to fight for your life) with two big cops, Maybe we will never know if the police said clearly who they were -- but having called the cops your friend (the victim) should have been expecting them to coming flying in. Could he have hit one first out of paranoia -- again we will likely never know -- I wish we did.

excerpt:

"These guys rushed me and I heard sirens in the distance and my first thought was, these guys might be connected to the burglars," Bolton said.

He said the officers were grabbing him and screaming "Did you call police?" which Bolton said made him think they were burglars and were angry at him.

He said the pair were trying to push him back into the building.

Bolton said he braced himself to resist being pushed in and he was punched in the face a number of times. He was still able to stop them pushing him in and could hear the sirens getting closer, Bolton said.

------------------------------------

Here is the post I read on the thread the victim started on NYCC site

Date: Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:09:42 PM
This message was last updated on: Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:13:14 PM

Author: Richard Rosenthal send email
64.12.116.6 Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20020924 AOL/7.0

Subject: Happily, broken arm reported in paper was not mentioned on TV

The Mathias Matter was on Channels 2 and 4 as part of their 6:00 news.

The newspaper account mentioned Mathias suffered a broken arm. He was clearly badly battered...but I don't believe his arm was broken. That's good news not only for him but also for the Jersey City taxpayers; that will moderate the damages he should collect.

Am I pre-judging this based on hearing only one side? Yes, I am. Whether or not Mathias prevails against the infamous Blue Wall, closed-minded person that I am here, I'm confident I'm right and Mathias was grieviously wronged.


Quote:

craige wrote:

I asked him to sign up here and tell his side, but he says whatever he writes can be used against him, so he declined.

He says he never implied on the NYCC bike message board (not a blog) that his arm isn't broken, however. Can you copy and paste the comment that you saw, please?


Oh -- on a side note -- it seems like the front door to this place was left unlocked or else how did the cops get in to the stairs? Your friend lives on the top floor and has no buzzer to let people in -- so did a neighbor leave the front door unlocked?

Posted on: 2007/8/24 17:56
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUE
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Sorry, but if the police didn't identify themselves, that's the end of the story. It's their fault. It's not a citizen's job to *infer* who's a cop and who isn't when they think they might be under attack by robbers.


Maybe what happened is that the guys on both sides of this incident were scared and confused and not thinking or communicating all that clearly. Which, as far as I'm concerned, is not a big deal. I don't think I'd be mad about confusion with undercover cops if I were the civilian in a case like this. It would be just one of those things.

What bugs me is that apparently the police are smearing the civilian retroactively, when everyone has calmed down and there's no reason to be emotional or defensive.

Of course, there are usually two sides to a story, but, given that the civilian's friend seems to be a nice, probably law-abiding person who's posting here, my assumption is that, at best, the officers' side is that they were confused by confusing behavior. I doubt that the civilian was guilty of anything other than being scared and confusing.

Why don't the police just apologize and say it was all the result of tension and confusion, pay the civilian $1,000 and move on?

Maybe the police are being so defensive because they're afraid of doing something that will cause them to lose in a lawsuit, but, by being jerks, I think it's much more likely that they'll trigger an expensive lawsuit than if they simply issued an abject apology and paid the civilian $1,000 (or payment of medical bills) in exchange for a promise that the civilian won't sue.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 17:53
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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Perhaps those 2 perps the victim saw through his skylight were actually the 2 cop-thugs??!!

Hey, food for thought: I hear many JC cops who work the nightshift are jacked-up on coke and booze.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 17:49
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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I know someone who is a bit arrogant but a really nice, friendly, streetwise guy. He saw a Jersey City police officer who was doing a very terrible job of protecting a utility worker who was down in a manhole, and he told the officer that the officer should do a better job.

My suspicion is that the guy I know might have said what he said in a somewhat abrasive way, but I'm also sure that he was just being, at worst, correct in an irritating way, but the officer had him up against a wall and was generally just a total jerk toward him.

I've also told the story here about a friend who was completely blown off when she went up to a Jersey City police officer in front of a shopping center and asked for help finding her misplaced 7-year-old son. The officer gave my friend no help whatsoever. He didn't even get on the radio to ask his fellow officers to look for a lost child.

So, the sad truth is, even though I'm sure that many Jersey City officers are honest, hard-working, well-meaning people, I would tend to believe any bad thing I heard about the behavior of a Jersey City officer. As far as I'm concerned, if someone without a serious criminal record accuses a Jersey City officer of misconduct, the officer is guilty until proven innocent.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 17:46
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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why would we want your friends side of the story? who cares. the cops showed up quickly. his place wasn't invaded. there was a misunderstanding. They will goto court and the results will be sorry for the misunderstand have a rocking good day.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 17:35
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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craige, that was my point.
It seems clear in your friends' mind, that these plain clothes officers didn't identify themselves well enough.
Defending oneself against an intruder is justifiable and it would be interesting to get the Police perspective on why your friend 'challenged' them. It would have to be an imaginative view or creative story to explain it, which still highlights the poor communication skills of the officers.

Do you know if the police officers produced their shields or had them hanging around their necks - does your friend recall seeing any police identification other then the questionable verbal tone and police reference?

You will find that plain clothes officers do have policies and procedures to follow when conducting themselves and when making their presence known to the public.

A freedom of information request might reveal what these are - there would be training manuals.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 17:22
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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Quote:

GrovePath wrote:
Craige,

Since you know the victim -- does he have a broken arm as stated in the Journal or does he not -- as stated on his NYCC bike blog?

Just curious -- I'm sure it will greatly affect his future lawsuit.

I asked him to sign up here and tell his side, but he says whatever he writes can be used against him, so he declined.

He says he never implied on the NYCC bike message board (not a blog) that his arm isn't broken, however. Can you copy and paste the comment that you saw, please?

Posted on: 2007/8/24 17:15
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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Quote:

JSalt wrote:

Not entirely dissimilar from what happened in the Sean Bell case, no?


Similar to Sean Bell?!!!

Not to undermine what happened to this guy Matt, but Sean Bell is dead... blown away! How many shots fired?

Posted on: 2007/8/24 16:56
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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Craige,

Since you know the victim -- does he have a broken arm as stated in the Journal or does he not -- as stated on his NYCC bike blog?

Just curious -- I'm sure it will greatly affect his future lawsuit.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 16:55
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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Australian wrote:
I also find it difficult to understand the point or motive of a person to be combative with police, if they are the one's who called for their assistance.

What would you do if you opened the door to your apartment building and 2 burly guys lunged at you and started beating on you and you were assuming they were robbers who were trying to break into your apt.? You don't think maybe your instinct wouldn't be to fight back? Or would you just stand there and take it?

Posted on: 2007/8/24 16:50
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
Whatever happen to the theives on the roof?

Well, they got away of course since the cops were too busy beating up the guy whose apartment was about to robbed.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 16:48
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUE
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Matt said the plain clothes guys asked him if he had called the police in a very threatening tone, which made him assume they were the robbers or connected to them and that they were angry at him for doing so. Because of that he tried to get away from them.

From what I understand, Matt was trying to get away from all four cops who were beating on him because he was scared out of his wits. Here he has called the cops to come help him and they start beating on him. But because he was trying to get away, they got even angrier with him. A downward spiral.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 16:45
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUE
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Like you I wasn't there -- I just know that this article doesn't answer a lot of questions.

Quote:

JSalt wrote:

...that's the end of the story...


Excerpt--
Bolton said he heard a noise on his roof and when he looked out a skylight saw two men trying to break in, so he called police and was told a car would be sent. After hanging up he ran downstairs to open the front door because there is no bell, Bolton said.

"I opened the door and midway up the steps were two thug-looking guys in jeans and T-shirts, and they looked pretty tough," said Bolton.

In fact, they were plainclothes Police Officers Victor Vargas and Kevin Hill.

Bolton said the two didn't identify themselves or display badges - a point the officers disputed in the police report of the incident.

"These guys rushed me and I heard sirens in the distance and my first thought was, these guys might be connected to the burglars," Bolton said.

He said the officers were grabbing him and screaming "Did you call police?" which Bolton said made him think they were burglars and were angry at him.

Quote:

JSalt wrote:

...Not entirely dissimilar from what happened in the Sean Bell case, no?
...


I don't see how this is like that.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 16:41
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUE
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Sorry, but if the police didn't identify themselves, that's the end of the story. It's their fault. It's not a citizen's job to *infer* who's a cop and who isn't when they think they might be under attack by robbers.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 16:35
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUE
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This doesn't make sense to me on a number of levels -- if two guys were asking me if I called the police I would know they were cops -- but I wasn't there and really need more information before I jump to conclusions here.

He or someone else also told the Jersey Journal reporter that he had broken bones, but on his NYCC blog it says he in fact doesn't have a broken arm. Again not saying the cops didn't over react -- just that this article doesn't have enough info.


Excerpt--
Bolton said he heard a noise on his roof and when he looked out a skylight saw two men trying to break in, so he called police and was told a car would be sent. After hanging up he ran downstairs to open the front door because there is no bell, Bolton said.

"I opened the door and midway up the steps were two thug-looking guys in jeans and T-shirts, and they looked pretty tough," said Bolton.

In fact, they were plainclothes Police Officers Victor Vargas and Kevin Hill.

Bolton said the two didn't identify themselves or display badges - a point the officers disputed in the police report of the incident.

"These guys rushed me and I heard sirens in the distance and my first thought was, these guys might be connected to the burglars," Bolton said.

He said the officers were grabbing him and screaming "Did you call police?" which Bolton said made him think they were burglars and were angry at him.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 15:58
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In a police report filed about the incident, the cops said Bolton ran to the door, looked surprised and was out of breath.

Who would expect that? When burglars are on the roof, you should be looking more relaxed than ever! :)

Posted on: 2007/8/24 15:25
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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Yes, communication breakdown, but if these facts are true, that "breakdown" is entirely the fault of the police for not identifying themselves. Had they ID'd, none of the ensuing problems would have occurred. The guy behaved understandably, the cops did not.

Not entirely dissimilar from what happened in the Sean Bell case, no?

Posted on: 2007/8/24 14:46
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Re: JCPD BLACK & BLUEHe called cops - they beat, cuffed him
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You only apply enough force to detain and handcuff a suspect. The black-eye, broken bones and other serious injuries exceeds the expected 'bumps and bruises' you would sustain. Basically, you wrestle a suspect not have a stand-up fist fight.

I also find it difficult to understand the point or motive of a person to be combative with police, if they are the one's who called for their assistance.

There seems to be a huge communication break down here and having said that, there is always two sides to a story.

Posted on: 2007/8/24 14:37
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