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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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T-Bird asked:
Quote:

But why would they put down blacktop (on both sides leading to the bridge) if they are about to tear down the old bridge and put up the new one?


You are kidding, right? Haven't you lived in NJ long enough?? In the land of Tony Soprano, there is always reason to do a job several times over. The contractors will get paid to lay down a road, which they will dutifully tear up again in a couple of months, to replace it with a newer road. All at our expense, of course.

Didn't the same happen on Newark Ave during the recent project? Did they not lay down a new sidewalk, only to tear it up again? Didn't they just approve a new $67 million bond/loan to buy land on 440, which will be turned over to a contractor, and thus requiring the relocation of city buildings/agencies that will need to be rebuilt elsewhere??

What was your question again?

Posted on: 2010/6/29 13:35
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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The proposed roadway is definitely a bad idea. I use that section of the park on a daily basis (I commute to work on a bike, and live across the park at The Foundry) and I see LOTS of people who get off at 14C and drive around LSC, on Phillips St, then up Johnson, to avoid the morning commute jams heading towards downtown and NYC. In fact, I am quite surprised that I have yet to witness a fatal accident at the corner of Audrey Zapp and Phillips. The a--holes getting off the turnpike extension and cutting through the park are ALWAYS speeding and the stop sign at that corner (Audrey Zapp/Phillips St) is hardly ever respected. People blow through the sign more often than not and rarely yield to pedestrians. There really should be a policeman stationed at that corner EVERY DAY. They could plug a sizable portion of the city's budget deficit with daily enforcement of the traffic rules at that corner.

Those of you who don't believe that the traffic volume will increase once a roadway is available to join the park to Jersey Avenue are in denial, or too dumb to connect the dots. I think you should come out to the park on a workday between 8:00 AM and 9:30 AM and you will see what I am talking about.

As a completely new aside, I was quite surprised to find that the work done yesterday came out really nice. I just rode over the new blacktop today and it was smooth and perfect in every respect. It was also very level and made for a much nicer ride. It should also make it less dangerous to ride through there at night. The gravel was a mess before, full of holes and bumps.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 13:29
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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Quote:

T-Bird wrote:
An additional $3 toll at the LSP and CCD exits


That is an excellent idea, but it should be all the time, and more like $10.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 12:17
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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T-Bird wrote:
An additional $3 toll at the LSP and CCD exits from say 7am to 10 am would be cool, no? You wouldn't even need to build toll booths - just dedicate the far right (or two) lane/s at the last toll exchange for people getting off at those two exits. Add $3 to their toll. You could segregate traffic with jersey barriers coming out of the toll plaza. The city would get a big cut of the revenue to pay for road maintenance and traffic control.

I'm sure there are a million reasons why it can't be done, but it'd still be cool in the parallel world where things actually work efficiently and life is 17% to 89% better....


Our version of "congestion pricing".

Posted on: 2010/6/29 12:11
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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An additional $3 toll at the LSP and CCD exits from say 7am to 10 am would be cool, no? You wouldn't even need to build toll booths - just dedicate the far right (or two) lane/s at the last toll exchange for people getting off at those two exits. Add $3 to their toll. You could segregate traffic with jersey barriers coming out of the toll plaza. The city would get a big cut of the revenue to pay for road maintenance and traffic control.

I'm sure there are a million reasons why it can't be done, but it'd still be cool in the parallel world where things actually work efficiently and life is 17% to 89% better....

Posted on: 2010/6/29 12:00
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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Don' think for one second icechute that that junction won't have traffic guards at certain times. It was a topic of discussion at many of the meetings. There is plenty of room to call drivers over and ticket them just like they do to the ignorant West bound drivers heading into the Holland Tunnel from NYC.

"As a longtime crosser of 12th street I can tell you commuters just don't give a crap who or what they block. We might even see it in the evening as there would be a 2 lane to 1 choke southbound, but outbound traffic tends not to grind so bad as inbound."

Posted on: 2010/6/29 11:41
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Studies of new road projects say none has EVER reduced traffic on an existing road for more than a brief period. Adding capacity simply induces the people who had decided it was too big a PITA to drive that way to change their minds.


Agreed.

Jersey/Grand will be a horror show. Throw in the school+crossing guards and it will be even worse.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 11:39
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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Quote:

icechute wrote:
I believe CCD will see LESS traffic because of this. If I'm coming up toward the tunnel, I'd get off the Turnpike at 14B, behind the Science Center, cut across the bridge and head right up Jersey Ave. all the way to Ham. Park, go around the park and then hit Erie for a block to the tunnel.

Or just take Jersey up to Newark Ave., then join the race to the tunnel on Erie.

There's as much bad about this happening as good.


Studies of new road projects say none has EVER reduced traffic on an existing road for more than a brief period. Adding capacity simply induces the people who had decided it was too big a PITA to drive that way to change their minds.

As for the light rail vs cars, my opinion, (expressed at the traffic study meetings) is what we'll see is morning northbound traffic backed up on Jersey all the way from the light at Grand to the rail crossing, resulting in car vs rail gridlock. As a longtime crosser of 12th street I can tell you commuters just don't give a crap who or what they block. We might even see it in the evening as there would be a 2 lane to 1 choke southbound, but outbound traffic tends not to grind so bad as inbound.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 11:16
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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Not for certain T-Bird - I asked the workers there but they did not know.

For all the traffic hysteria that is being tossed about there is not one grain of proof that this narrow 2-lane road will cause all the crazy traffic jams that all the downtowners are espousing. I went to numerous traffic study meetings over the last 4 years and after everything was culled through and studies poured over I, too, eventually fell in line with how Sam Pesin feels. If anything this new artery will just lesson flows that are crippling other parts of JC during rush hour.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 11:06
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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They should just make the extension coble stone. That is a bitch to drive on.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 10:57
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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I believe CCD will see LESS traffic because of this. If I'm coming up toward the tunnel, I'd get off the Turnpike at 14B, behind the Science Center, cut across the bridge and head right up Jersey Ave. all the way to Ham. Park, go around the park and then hit Erie for a block to the tunnel.

Or just take Jersey up to Newark Ave., then join the race to the tunnel on Erie.

There's as much bad about this happening as good.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 10:52
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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that traffic study claiming the light rail will discourage drivers is bs. 30 seconds at the light rail doesn't compare to 20 minutes on the ramp down to the tunnel on the turnpike. It's going to become the #1 route for avoiding the holland tunnel traffic with people getting off at the lsp exit, cutting through the park, up jersey and through the side streets of hamilton park.

lovely.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 10:21
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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Quote:

81905 wrote:

So, it looks like the extension is underway. I heard that the big work starts in September. Finally a respctabe entrance to our great park. Let's hope they don't skimp on cheap lighting.


But why would they put down blacktop (on both sides leading to the bridge) if they are about to tear down the old bridge and put up the new one? I wonder if the blacktop is a longer-term intermediate step and the bigger project has been put off for a year or two due to lack of state and local funds.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 10:19
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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It will be a two lane road - not four lane as was in the original proposal. Sam Pesin - Friends of Liberty State Park approved of the project. Since there's the light rail in the way with traffic lights and limited to two lanes it won't be a high traffic roadway according to traffic studies. There will be a pedestrian/bike lane next to the road and the project looks pretty nice. I'm personally against it, but it could have been much worse.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 10:05
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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prepare to have thousands of more drivers cutting through downtown every day.

this is going to suck.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 9:38
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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That will be a godsend.

Wiggling though that underbrush and gravel and over the small hill was always a pain in the ass. Especially when you met a biker coming the other way.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 9:35
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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Convenient perhaps, but there are already way too many drivers at that intersection of Phillips and Zapp. Now folks are going to just use it as a cut-through even more often.

In NJ even our parks have traffic jams!

Posted on: 2010/6/29 9:31
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Re: Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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I have not heard the details on this but did notice spray paint on the ground last week showing what changes are to be made.

Are they building a new bridge? That wooden one is getting more crooked everyday.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 8:50
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Blacktop be poured at the end of Jersey Ave.
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Yesterday they began poring the black top to the wooden foot bridge and the path way up to Phillips St. This is a great news to bikers as that gravel section has been a real menace to my tires over the years.

So, it looks like the extension is underway. I heard that the big work starts in September. Finally a respctabe entrance to our great park. Let's hope they don't skimp on cheap lighting.

Posted on: 2010/6/29 8:35
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Re: Jersey Avenue entrance to Liberty State Park
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Shadow is obviously correct, it's a no brainer. But first they will have to pretend to clean up all the chromium and whatever along the way. I sure will miss all the rotting timbers in the putrid water at low tide (the geese don't seem to mind). I also see that another medical building is finally under construction in the Wilzig parking lot.

Posted on: 2009/3/30 21:46
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Re: Jersey Avenue entrance to Liberty State Park
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It's already under way. The next phase of the "Stealth Highway" from Bayonne to the GW Bridge. So called because it's done in spurts to avoid public scrutiny & the law. Jersey Avenue will be widened at the footbridge to accomodate four lanes of traffic, two north & two south to tie into Phillips Drive. Look at Jersey Avenue between the footbridge & Grand Street. It's not that wide for nothing. Development interests are driving this road and it will happen. Further south along this road at Linden Avenue & Caven Point Road the one block kink in this road will be eliminated by plowing through just east of the Recreation Field and move north to tie in with the rest of this highway.
Gonnahappen. Take it to the bank.

Posted on: 2009/3/30 18:59
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Re: Jersey Avenue entrance to Liberty State Park
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In looking over the new JC Mobility 2050 plan that will be up for a vote in 2 weeks, I found that they have included this connector between Jersey Avenue and Philip street. Now this will make that road part of the official city master plan, but does not actually fund it.

What is interesting about the plan is that it also includes a re-routing of the HBLRT to avoid the long elbow that it currently takes north and west of LSP. Instead it will pass east under the expressway, cross Philip St and then run across the new bridge to connect with the existing light rail track that runs along side Jersey Ave.

The other thing to consider is that the mobility (or circulation) plan calls for all of the city streets to be "complete streets" with bike paths and pedestrian friendly designs, including traffic calming.

So, if a new bridge connecting Jersey Avenue to LSP were to include this light rail, and a bike lane, and limit car traffic speeds in some manner, would it be an acceptable compromise for those opposed to any road at all?

Posted on: 2009/3/30 16:08
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Re: OPEN JERSEY AVENUE TO LIBERTY STATE PARK!!
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Whatever we as a city do, let's please improve the existing Jersey Ave. bridge. To paraphrase Lincoln- If we can pave the bike path from downtown to LSP without building an automobile road, I'm in favor of that. If we can improve the bike path by building a road, I'm also in favor of that. And if we can improve bike and pedestrian access, by allowing some cars and not others I'm in favor of that too.

My final straw was riding to work Tuesday and discovering the bridge and ramp flooded over. Carrying a bike through knee deep water: not a great way to start a day.

Posted on: 2007/4/20 13:01
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Re: OPEN JERSEY AVENUE TO LIBERTY STATE PARK!!
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The study area is downtown (traffic circulation) and regional access to downtown. The study is not evaluating improvements to ease traffic in Lafayette nor will it evalute impact on Liberty State Park (quality of park experience etc). There is modeling of volume if the new road is created and also its impact of other study points.

The study is considering (and likely to recommend) a two lane connector road (one way each direction) with bike lanes and ped sidewalks.

My concerns as others have

- will the additional capacity created by this connector road improve traffic flow or just "fill up" and create more traffic.

-the study is considering (and again likely recommending) a two lane connector road. However, on the north-side of the foot bridge passing by the hospital, the road is six lanes (correct me if wrong, its pretty wide).

Again while the study is considering a two lane road, it looks like the city (at some point) was planning to build a wider road. I trust the integrity of the study, however, it does not mean that the city is restricted to the two lane road.

The next / last pubic meeting for the study is Monday, April 30th

Posted on: 2007/4/16 17:08
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Re: OPEN JERSEY AVENUE TO LIBERTY STATE PARK!!
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Quote:

injcsince81 wrote:
As logical as extending Phillips into Jersey is for anyone with a half brain and access to Google Earth or SimCity, this fight is between the well-to-do downtowners, who don't want any more (imaginary) traffic in their neighborhood coming down Jersey, and poor Lafayette (Johnston) inhabitants.

Environmental racism.


Not quite.

I am not opposed to additional traffic in downtown -- I am opposed to additional traffic in Liberty State Park.

A boat marina and a golf course have already been contructed. In the case of the boat marina, this used to be the location of a grassy "Great Lawn" -- now gone.

I like Sam Pesin's comparison of Liberty State Park to New York's Central Park.

Let's keep cars the heck out of there and give the thousands of new people and Jersey City oldtimers a chance at a breath of fresh air.

Right now, people can "walk" into the park via Jersey Avenue. A cleaner/sturdier walking bridge would be nice.

But the concept of "walking bridge" ain't broke and it don't need fixin'.

I feel for the folks over in Bergen/Lafeyette and agree they need a break (and there are suitable alternatives available). However, ruining the park is not a reasonable solution.

-M

Posted on: 2007/4/9 17:14
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Re: OPEN JERSEY AVENUE TO LIBERTY STATE PARK!!
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There are many things that could be done to prevent traffic from cutting through the downtown during morning rush hours. First and foremost is congestion pricing for Manhattan, which is likely to be an inevitability in the future, though Jersey City residents have little control over New York City's implementing this. A similar alternative would be a ban on single occupancy vehicles through the Holland as existed post 9/11. But I imagine both these proposals are objectionable to the downtown folks who are too selfish to take mass transit into the city, instead driving in and adding to the congestion.

In addition to limiting the number of cars actually entering the tunnel, either through higher tolls or HOV restrictions, mass transit needs to be expanded. Huge numbers of vehicles travel east along 78 from locations as far west as Pennsylvania, many of the vehicles end up on the Turnpike Extension bound for the tunnel. The rail line running along this corridor has very few trains, and does not even extend to the Pennsylvania border. A commuter rail once ran from Easton, PA, on the Delaware River to New York via Hoboken. The right of way still exists, just not the rails. Re-initiating that rail link would ease congestion. So would the extension of the light rail west over the Hackensack River, so drivers could board the train before even getting out onto the peninsula. Furthermore, an extension of the light rail along Sixth Street / Bergen arches would also eliminate some traffic coming via route 7 and 1&9, thus less traffic at the tunnel entrance, and thus less incentive for vehicles to cut through the downtown. Mass transit construction though, is obviously expensive, and certain proposals would meet with community opposition. Or more to the point, some people complain about heavy traffic cutting through the downtown, but they also complain about the proposed solutions.

As far as the actual extension of Jersey Avenue, there is no reason to think that it cannot be extended into the park in a safe way, nor should it be assumed that traffic flowing through Jersey Avenue is going to dramatically increase the actual volume coming through the downtown anymore than traffic is already going to increase by.

First of all, provided the road is pedestrian friendly, and other pedestrian enhancements are made, the pedestrian situation may actually be improved over current conditions, especially at Jersey and Grand Streets. Improvements could include walk / don't walk countdown clocks, longer pedestrian walk signals and corner curb extensions. Corner curb extensions are essentially an extension of the sidewalk at corners to reduce the distance pedestrians have to walk. It also serves to slow traffic down because drivers perceive the road as more narrow.

Second, traffic volume is not nearly as hazardous as traffic speed. Indeed, increased volume can help decrease speed, which ultimately improves safety. Speed can be mitigated by a number of factors including traffic lights, especially those that are purposely linked to slow traffic flow. Instead of "ride the green" as one can do on Manhattan Avenues, lights can by synchronized to reduce traffic flow. Further, as I mentioned before, curb extensions at the corners psychologically slow down drivers, as do narrow streets. The addition of stop signs at corners can further slow traffic.

Finally, to the point that morning rush hour traffic will suddenly flood the Jersey Avenue extension, the light rail itself will do wonders to limit the capacity of the extension at rush hour. The trains cross the road over two or three minutes at rush hour, in which case, traffic will have to stop for the train, making Jersey Avenue a much less desirable "shortcut"

Posted on: 2007/4/9 9:53
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Re: OPEN JERSEY AVENUE TO LIBERTY STATE PARK!!
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The final PUBLIC MEETING for the Jersey City Regional Waterfront Access and Downtown Circulation Study will be on Monday, April 30 at 6 PM. The public meeting will be held at City Hall, 280 Grove Street, in the Council Chambers on the second floor.

Posted on: 2007/4/9 8:31
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Re: OPEN JERSEY AVENUE TO LIBERTY STATE PARK!!
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I just found the posted minutes from the March 1st meeting
of the Regional Waterfront Access and Downtown Circulation Study
Thursday, March 1, 2007, 6 PM
Click Here where it says:Minutes

Housing, Economic Development
And Commerce Department
Division of City Planning
30 Montgomery Street Suite 1400
Jersey City, N.J. 07302-3821
Phone: 201.547.5010
Fax: 201.547.4323

In attendance:

Thomas Pfister, Friends of Liberty State Park
Tony D’Auria, Goldman Sachs
Barbara Burza
Chris Bray, Lafayette Neighborhood Action Committee
George Garcia, Garcia Turula LLC
Josh Schneider, NJTPA
Maureen Crowley
Deneine Morant, MCRADC
Diana Petolino, Jersey City Public Schools
Dale Hardman
James Greller, HCIA
Eliza Wright, Friends of Liberty State Park
Steve Lanset
Julie Daugherty
Alan Pollack, Friends of Liberty State Park
Lorraine Gagliardotto
Andrea Zuckerman
Gail Bedard
David Alden
June Jones
Connie Claman, Liberty Science Center
Frank Gallagher, Liberty State Park
Dan Spadoro
Craig Buckbee
David Sheoner
Dianna Guadagnino
Nikki Sirken
Suzy Winkler
Dan North
Sam Pesin
Steve Brown, Port Authority of New York and New Jersey
Mia Scanga
Tim Keating
Tanya Chauhan, Lafayette Neighborhood Action Committee
Patricia Giordan
Angus Vail
Sue Mack
Vern Yenor
Dorcey Winant
Douglas Greenfeld, Jersey City HEDC
Naomi Hsu, Jersey City Planning
Louis Luglio, Vollmer Associates

Quote:

BrightMoment wrote:
Quote:

mia wrote:
I won't go into all the detail on the extension of Jersey Avenue which spans over 10 years. Check out my old website on the history of this battle & yes I'm very happy we stopped the roadway which would have been disastrous.

http://stopbretschundler.com/JA.htm

and Steve Lanset’s site

http://www.hartwheels.org/JerseyAveFile.html


As for Liberty State Park and that bridge, the city gave FREE land/ easement to 55LotDev LLC to build a roadway on the park side to connect to a landlocked, polluted piece of land, which the developers paid $1 million in 1998. As expected, they built the road on our land then flipped the lot for big bucks. The consideration/payment for that easement was for them to renovate the walkway with new lighting, planking, railing, landscaping, bike path etc.... They never finished the bridge as specified. The project is now to be "the View".

If you want to do something worthwhile, I encourage you to pressure the mayor & Bob Cotter to have the new developers live up to the agreement to rehab that bridge or take back the land due to breach of contract…

Last fall, I walked the area with Stve Fulop, DT Councilman, to find out it's part of Viola Richardson's ward, Bergen Lafayette. Pressure her.... Good luck... I have all the details & copies of the ordinance which was extended for another year but still the developers didn't finish the project.

Sam Pesin, Friends of Liberty State Park, can fill you in on the latest transportation study for that entire area.... He could also use some volunteers...

Mia Scanga


Anyone who wants to do more than post here should read all of Mia's chronicle of this boondoggle. She and Sam Pesin, Friends of Liberty State Park, are just two of the people who we have to thank for protecting both the Park and Downtown JC from Robert Moses-like power politics of development.

If you read the numerous threads here on JCList, re: "traffic study", "route 139", etc, you will know that downtown JC already will be impacted until 2010 with the route 139 construction causing commuters to be re-routed and many will like water seeking the path of least resistance, flow like land turds into our neighborhoods so we hardly need another ward politician making deals with developers to continue land grabs for fast-track thoughtless development.

That being said, I among most, would agree we need lights on the "rape bridge" and improvement of what Mia spells out above was already paid to be done. Once again, it requires activists to proffer for politicians and developers to deliver and that only happens if you get involved beyond this board.

Start with calling/emailing Sam Pesin if you're serious.

Friends of Liberty State Park:
http://www.folsp.org/homepage.htm

Sam Pesin: pesinliberty@earthlink.net

The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York

"...in constructing one section of the Cross-Bronx Expressway and the way Moses ran roughshod over the interests of a neighborhood the road effectively destroyed, ran as an excerpt in The New Yorker."


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Posted on: 2007/4/8 20:46
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Re: Jersey Avenue entrance to Liberty State Park
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The Jersey Avenue entrance to Liberty State Park will be discussed at this month's HPNA meeting. See:

http://www.hamiltonpark.org/newsletter.html

Posted on: 2007/3/3 16:51
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Re: Jersey Avenue entrance to Liberty State Park
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Don't usually speak up up, but this is a quiet and trashy corner of JC that those of us who bike or walk like alot. The canal is sweetly slimey green and peaceful on many times I have visited. No personal need for a roadway when walking will do. Nuff said.

Posted on: 2007/3/2 17:06
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