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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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jellybell wrote:
If all else fails you can also find foreclosed properties and get financing with Fannie Mae's site www.homepath.com. Priority is normally given to first time home buyers. I've submitted a few offers on this site.


Can you offer lower than the asking price on homepath? Or are you required to offer the asking price?

Posted on: 3/15 9:36
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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If all else fails you can also find foreclosed properties and get financing with Fannie Mae's site www.homepath.com. Priority is normally given to first time home buyers. I've submitted a few offers on this site.

Posted on: 3/15 0:16
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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While I'm not sure what happens with an IRS lien, I do know that if someone makes less than 60K in that year, they can file for a chapter 13 which saves their property, then file a chapter 7 which wipes away personal debt. In this case the property owner can either stay in their home and reorganize the back mortgage payments or, choose to liquidate the property which they would only receive a maximum of 26K from the proceeds of the sale. Now if there is a married couple involved, the filing spouse would get 26K while the non filing spouse would receive half of the overage after mortgage was satisfied. Then the filing spouse would receive the 26K if anything was left over.

The fact that your case originated in South Carolina could make things different and most likely does depending on what their state laws are. Aside from Bankrupcy laws which are federal, the liens and how they are married and attached to the property vary by state.


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CandiceOsborne wrote:
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dmark526 wrote:
While I'm glad you were able to get a deal, once you mentioned it wasn't in Hudson County, it really doesn't apply to this thread. There is very little probability that a property in JC would auction for less than 60% of fmv. JC real estate is up 24% over one year ago and to think that a bank is not well aware of these figures, as well as a property owner who knows they can sell or do a bankcruptcy filing before an auction would be naive to say the least.



The entire metro-market I looked at is up 10% over last year, and I bought was in downtown which is much more of a sellers market than the rest of the area. I've lost out in bidding wars on two other properties down there over the last 9 months. But yes, I FULLY expected to be bidding against one of the lien holders and expected to go higher. It makes zero sense that the guy didn't file bankruptcy because he's still on the hook for many of these liens. And if he'd filed for bankruptcy the government would have gotten their money first. It was a very strange case. But my point was those strange cases can and do exist, but you have to do a lot of research.

Posted on: 3/14 0:40
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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You can purchase insurance when you buy foreclosure properties to protect yourself against liens.

Posted on: 3/13 13:54
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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jctexan wrote:
I thought the liens stayed with the property, not the owner. So in effect, the new owner now owes the debts.


I suppose it depends on state law and/or the type of lien. In my case 5 of the liens were federal income from IRS, so those will follow the person. 1 of the liens was for a restaurant the guy opened and was not for any improvements to the property itself (don't ask me why the guy didn't open his restaurant as an LLC...) So there were only 2 liens that were actually related to loans made to the property. Basically the court recorded lien holders except the senior debtor as defendants in the case. As a part of the court filings the lien holders admitted to being junior debtors and agreed that it would be considered settled upon the closed public auction, whereby if there were excess proceeds above the judgement amount they would receive a distribution. However, I spoke to both the court itself and an attorney about how it worked in South Carolina. Only in very rare circumstances can someone claim a lien after the sale occurs (which given the amount of public notices, public court proceedings, etc. is difficult to prove that you didn't have a chance to join the case.) In fact in my case, it appears that the "new" restaurant lien is perhaps what held things up from a year ago when the senior debtor tried to sell it at an online auction. However, unpaid utility and backed local property taxes were transferred with the property.

Posted on: 3/13 10:15
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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I thought the liens stayed with the property, not the owner. So in effect, the new owner now owes the debts.

Posted on: 3/13 9:47
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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dmark526 wrote:
While I'm glad you were able to get a deal, once you mentioned it wasn't in Hudson County, it really doesn't apply to this thread. There is very little probability that a property in JC would auction for less than 60% of fmv. JC real estate is up 24% over one year ago and to think that a bank is not well aware of these figures, as well as a property owner who knows they can sell or do a bankcruptcy filing before an auction would be naive to say the least.



The entire metro-market I looked at is up 10% over last year, and I bought was in downtown which is much more of a sellers market than the rest of the area. I've lost out in bidding wars on two other properties down there over the last 9 months. But yes, I FULLY expected to be bidding against one of the lien holders and expected to go higher. It makes zero sense that the guy didn't file bankruptcy because he's still on the hook for many of these liens. And if he'd filed for bankruptcy the government would have gotten their money first. It was a very strange case. But my point was those strange cases can and do exist, but you have to do a lot of research.

Posted on: 3/13 9:14
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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jc201jc wrote:
@candiceosborne how did you do a title search? Did you contact a firm to do it, or did you do it yourself?


law firm

Posted on: 3/13 8:52
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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brewster wrote:
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CandiceOsborne wrote:
I purchased an investment property this way, a county foreclosure auction (though not Hudson County) and here was my experience:


Wow, that was fascinating. How many properties were you watching and researching at the same time? Surely you didn't put all your eggs in one basket? Hard to believe that 50-60% of market value wasn't low enough for the flippers.

I sure don't have the stones for that game. Most of the players don't do your due diligence but do enough deals that one going bad is all in the game. Many years ago we looked at a $500k rent stabilized 8 family on the UWS, and the broker gave us a whole song and dance about how to buy out tenants and consolidate units to get below the threshold. We realized this was a game of russian roulette that we did not have the deep pockets to play, one loss and we were simply done. So we came here!


I have been watching every property that came on the market in a 2 mile by 1/2 mile area for 9 months. It was nerve wracking for SURE. The home was 1940s. Without pictures of the interior and thinking the house may need significant renovation and a relatively higher initial bid, it makes the risk too much for flippers (or that is at least my theory)

Posted on: 3/13 8:51
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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@candiceosborne how did you do a title search? Did you contact a firm to do it, or did you do it yourself?

Posted on: 3/13 8:47
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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While I'm glad you were able to get a deal, once you mentioned it wasn't in Hudson County, it really doesn't apply to this thread. There is very little probability that a property in JC would auction for less than 60% of fmv. JC real estate is up 24% over one year ago and to think that a bank is not well aware of these figures, as well as a property owner who knows they can sell or do a bankcruptcy filing before an auction would be naive to say the least.


Quote:

CandiceOsborne wrote:
I purchased an investment property this way, a county foreclosure auction (though not Hudson County) and here was my experience:

1 - I had to bring 5% of cash in form of cashier's check and have the remaining cash within 20 days (charged daily interest at 6.25% APR). If you go then you should bring 5% of the max bid you are willing to make. I don't see how you could do this without having all cash because an appraiser wouldn't have access to the house and not sure what bank would make a loan in this case.

2 - The judgement amount and the opening bid are NOT related. The judgement amount only dictates how much $ the senior debtor receives before other lienholders are paid. The senior debtor may set the opening bid. In my case, the senior debtor set the opening bid at $130,000 LESS than the judgement amount.

3 - If a judge is worth his/her salt they will make sure all lienholders are included (excluding property tax and utilities.) In my case there were 2 home loans, 5 federal income tax liens and a small business loan with claims to the property (the small business loan was from a restaurant operated elsewhere, but opened by the homeowner.) The court records are all public.

4 - It is difficult to get a lot of information ahead of time (like the inside of the home), but not impossible. I looked at the court record and called the senior debtor's law firm to try to get more information, but they were not willing (or perhaps allowed to) give any information. Then I went to the tax records and got the owners name. I googled his name and couldn't find much of anything, but on page 3 of google found that he'd registered a trademark for a restaurant name in the same city as the house. I then googled the restaurant name and found a facebook page for the restaurant...which ultimately led me to pictures I could tie to the house.

5 - It is possible for the home to not be auctioned even after the judgement, so it is good to have an accurate understanding of the history by looking at real estate sites, tax history and court filings. In my case, I saw that they put the home up for sale in 2014 which failed and then for an online auction last year which fell through. I saw the guy switching to a living trust and then back to himself to try and get around the foreclosure. I also found the owners facebook page and saw that he said he had moved 2 months ago. All of that led me to believe that the auction would ultimately occur for the property. But again, I could see that this nonsense had been going on since 2014.

6 - I did a title search to understand and to compare it to the court records (which matched)

7 - I had a gut feeling that the minimum bid set by the senior debtor would be high enough that flippers and developers would not be interested unless they had done as much sleuthing as I had done (which I doubted.) There were lots of developers and flippers (people sitting on the floor because not enough seats) but they did not make a move on this property.

LONG STORY SHORT: It was a lot of research, but well worth it because I got the home at 50-60% of market value based on comps. That said, I had been watching this market for 9 months. So if you understand the market and have cash and are willing to do a bunch of research on the property, it can pay off.

Posted on: 3/13 1:17
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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Is the list posted online somewhere, or is it only in the papers?

Posted on: 3/12 23:07
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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Quote:

CandiceOsborne wrote:
I purchased an investment property this way, a county foreclosure auction (though not Hudson County) and here was my experience:


Wow, that was fascinating. How many properties were you watching and researching at the same time? Surely you didn't put all your eggs in one basket? Hard to believe that 50-60% of market value wasn't low enough for the flippers.

I sure don't have the stones for that game. Most of the players don't do your due diligence but do enough deals that one going bad is all in the game. Many years ago we looked at a $500k rent stabilized 8 family on the UWS, and the broker gave us a whole song and dance about how to buy out tenants and consolidate units to get below the threshold. We realized this was a game of russian roulette that we did not have the deep pockets to play, one loss and we were simply done. So we came here!

Posted on: 3/12 22:38
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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You need 20% of the value in the form of cashier checks in Hudson County. So if you win a property for $200,000 you must have $40,000 in checks. The Hudson County Sheriff will not allow you to enter the place for bidding unless you have checks because the place is crowded, at one time they did. You have 30 days to pay the rest.

https://www.hudsoncountysheriff.com/foreclosure-sales

Posted on: 3/12 22:04
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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I purchased an investment property this way, a county foreclosure auction (though not Hudson County) and here was my experience:

1 - I had to bring 5% of cash in form of cashier's check and have the remaining cash within 20 days (charged daily interest at 6.25% APR). If you go then you should bring 5% of the max bid you are willing to make. I don't see how you could do this without having all cash because an appraiser wouldn't have access to the house and not sure what bank would make a loan in this case.

2 - The judgement amount and the opening bid are NOT related. The judgement amount only dictates how much $ the senior debtor receives before other lienholders are paid. The senior debtor may set the opening bid. In my case, the senior debtor set the opening bid at $130,000 LESS than the judgement amount.

3 - If a judge is worth his/her salt they will make sure all lienholders are included (excluding property tax and utilities.) In my case there were 2 home loans, 5 federal income tax liens and a small business loan with claims to the property (the small business loan was from a restaurant operated elsewhere, but opened by the homeowner.) The court records are all public.

4 - It is difficult to get a lot of information ahead of time (like the inside of the home), but not impossible. I looked at the court record and called the senior debtor's law firm to try to get more information, but they were not willing (or perhaps allowed to) give any information. Then I went to the tax records and got the owners name. I googled his name and couldn't find much of anything, but on page 3 of google found that he'd registered a trademark for a restaurant name in the same city as the house. I then googled the restaurant name and found a facebook page for the restaurant...which ultimately led me to pictures I could tie to the house.

5 - It is possible for the home to not be auctioned even after the judgement, so it is good to have an accurate understanding of the history by looking at real estate sites, tax history and court filings. In my case, I saw that they put the home up for sale in 2014 which failed and then for an online auction last year which fell through. I saw the guy switching to a living trust and then back to himself to try and get around the foreclosure. I also found the owners facebook page and saw that he said he had moved 2 months ago. All of that led me to believe that the auction would ultimately occur for the property. But again, I could see that this nonsense had been going on since 2014.

6 - I did a title search to understand and to compare it to the court records (which matched)

7 - I had a gut feeling that the minimum bid set by the senior debtor would be high enough that flippers and developers would not be interested unless they had done as much sleuthing as I had done (which I doubted.) There were lots of developers and flippers (people sitting on the floor because not enough seats) but they did not make a move on this property.

LONG STORY SHORT: It was a lot of research, but well worth it because I got the home at 50-60% of market value based on comps. That said, I had been watching this market for 9 months. So if you understand the market and have cash and are willing to do a bunch of research on the property, it can pay off.

Posted on: 3/12 21:16
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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Yes very good info, as the pay off amounts listed are basically maxed out values on most of those listings, i.e. not worth those figures. Plus the unknown variables of liens and condition of the housing, sounds like a shark tank.

I like the idea of buying out the debtor or dead beat in many cases.

#cash is king



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dmark526 wrote:
Yes, all of this is very good information.


Quote:

12345 wrote:
I know very little about these sheriff sales so you should go to the Hudson County Sheriffs Office and verify what I am writing:

1. The auctions that are listed in the paper are withdrawn or post phoned most of the time because many people contact the owners and work out a deal where they give the owner cash to transfer title and negotiate with the mortgage holders for a short sale. This is called PRE-FORECLOSURE and is a great way to get a deal.

2 You will not be able to inspect the property or look inside and there are many angry people who will trash the property when you take their home and try to evict. Another good reason to do pre-foreclosure.

3. Every property is allowed 3 or 4 postphonement and then if it makes it to the auction the mortgage holders will show up and bid what they are owed, this is the starting bid. If there are 2 mortgage holders and only one shows up then the other gets wiped out at the auction.

4. Tax liens take precedent over other liens and will not get wiped out so if there is a IRS lien it stays with the property; you MUST do a title search before you bid to verify this and know what your liabilities are.

5 The sheriff takes CASH at the auction and balance in 30 days in cash making it very hard to get financing and they add a sheriff fee on top.

Owners of the properties are contacted by hundreds of investors before the sale. But great deals exist if you are willing to work hard and go to auctions every week because if the owner is dead you might get a great deal!

Posted on: 3/12 18:45
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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Yes, all of this is very good information.


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12345 wrote:
I know very little about these sheriff sales so you should go to the Hudson County Sheriffs Office and verify what I am writing:

1. The auctions that are listed in the paper are withdrawn or post phoned most of the time because many people contact the owners and work out a deal where they give the owner cash to transfer title and negotiate with the mortgage holders for a short sale. This is called PRE-FORECLOSURE and is a great way to get a deal.

2 You will not be able to inspect the property or look inside and there are many angry people who will trash the property when you take their home and try to evict. Another good reason to do pre-foreclosure.

3. Every property is allowed 3 or 4 postphonement and then if it makes it to the auction the mortgage holders will show up and bid what they are owed, this is the starting bid. If there are 2 mortgage holders and only one shows up then the other gets wiped out at the auction.

4. Tax liens take precedent over other liens and will not get wiped out so if there is a IRS lien it stays with the property; you MUST do a title search before you bid to verify this and know what your liabilities are.

5 The sheriff takes CASH at the auction and balance in 30 days in cash making it very hard to get financing and they add a sheriff fee on top.

Owners of the properties are contacted by hundreds of investors before the sale. But great deals exist if you are willing to work hard and go to auctions every week because if the owner is dead you might get a great deal!

Posted on: 3/12 18:03
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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If a property is not bid on at auction it becomes and "reo" which means the bank now legally owns the property. There are lists where you can look up reos in the area. At that point, you negotiate with the bank and they usually will negotiate lower than the judgment amount.

Posted on: 3/12 18:00
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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I know very little about these sheriff sales so you should go to the Hudson County Sheriffs Office and verify what I am writing:

1. The auctions that are listed in the paper are withdrawn or post phoned most of the time because many people contact the owners and work out a deal where they give the owner cash to transfer title and negotiate with the mortgage holders for a short sale. This is called PRE-FORECLOSURE and is a great way to get a deal.

2 You will not be able to inspect the property or look inside and there are many angry people who will trash the property when you take their home and try to evict. Another good reason to do pre-foreclosure.

3. Every property is allowed 3 or 4 postphonement and then if it makes it to the auction the mortgage holders will show up and bid what they are owed, this is the starting bid. If there are 2 mortgage holders and only one shows up then the other gets wiped out at the auction.

4. Tax liens take precedent over other liens and will not get wiped out so if there is a IRS lien it stays with the property; you MUST do a title search before you bid to verify this and know what your liabilities are.

5 The sheriff takes CASH at the auction and balance in 30 days in cash making it very hard to get financing and they add a sheriff fee on top.

Owners of the properties are contacted by hundreds of investors before the sale. But great deals exist if you are willing to work hard and go to auctions every week because if the owner is dead you might get a great deal!

Posted on: 3/12 18:00
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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if the judgment amount is indeed the starting price for the auction, and no one bids that amount (most of the listings I glanced at seemed to have a judgment amount that was way too high for me to bid on), does the property just get re-listed at the following month's auction at the same price? that seems pretty dumb.

Posted on: 3/12 17:49
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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I was in the building on the day of the auction and I can tell you it was a zoo in there. The line was going almost to the front entrance. I guess they only let so many people in the auction room at once. I do believe the starting bid is for the judgment amount which includes sheriff fee.

Posted on: 3/12 17:46
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Re: Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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Interested as well, some tasty listings but if the judgment is listed as 450k at what point does the bidding start ?


Posted on: 3/12 17:19
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Sheriff Sale? (foreclosure)
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Has anyone been to a Hudson County Sheriff Sale (foreclosure auction) before? Any tips / advice? I know the basics from the website (i.e. need to bring cashier check, need to have financing or cash in order, etc.). Any other pitfalls I should be aware of?

Posted on: 3/12 16:10
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