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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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Mao wrote:
...Anyway, I just want to save a beautiful church building. And even if you hate the Church you got to admit that buildings like Chartres Cathedral and Hagia Sophia made the soul soar. St. Bridget's partakes however slightly of this same numinous spirit.

Cheers!

Mao

I think we're mostly in agreement or at least a base understanding. So... YES! 100%! If you look at my first post here, I'm hoping that it is saved and turned into a bar/restaurant. The very last thing I would want is the tear down of something built out of love, care and devotion. It is also why I want St. John's saved as well. What the Episcopalians did to that building is an abomination.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 18:45
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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I agree no person whether priest or regular person should not have the right to rape children. But this is also extends to other groups. Several weeks ago, I saw a program on the Catholic Network, EWTN on Courage. Basically, men who talked about why they gave up the homosexual lifestyle. These men talked about their first sexual experience which usually happens when they were 13 or 14 years old. While these men readily admit they enjoyed the experience, 13 and 14 years old cannot give consent under our present laws. Since this was a special program, it is not on EWTN website, but the next time it runs, I will post here. If we are going to talk about one group having inappropriate relations with children, let’s not forget others who are doing the same thing but are not mentioned.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 18:04
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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Well Pebble-

You are certainly on point about the hypocrisy of the priests and bishops. I mean come on: since the sexual revolution, the one unforgivable sin is to preach repression- of sex outside of more less restrictive traditional Judeo Christian norms. But then the massive and eternal Catholic church sits there and says: no nothing has changed. And its priests and nuns continued to be "eunuchs for the kingdom of God." Except that they don't continue to be Christian ascetics. They turn the seminaries and chanceries into pink palaces or get a mistress on the side. The Catholic clergy as a whole are about as narcissistic and self indulgent as one can imagine. Endless sermons by priests about themselves. And complaints about over working etc. Corruptio optimi est pessima!

But I do disagree with you to the extent that you assert in other contexts, institutions are responsible and the criminal law is brought to bear. If you track back to the study on the public schools, the problem is mostly ignored- though I think this is changing. There have been a slew of stories about in grained sexualization of the relationship between adolescent actors and film directors, etc. And of course, there is Penn State.......

Our society is returning in many ways to the wild world of sexual freedom, polymorphous perversity, and predation that was the norm before the Jewish ethic became universal through Christianity. The movement to lower the age of consent to allow sex between adults and adolescents is making headway in northern Europe and I think I read of some support here. Funny, the priest scandal seemed to stop this trend for a while...but I suspect only for a while.

Anyway, I just want to save a beautiful church building. And even if you hate the Church you got to admit that buildings like Chartres Cathedral and Hagia Sophia made the soul soar. St. Bridget's partakes however slightly of this same numinous spirit.

Cheers!

Mao

Posted on: 2014/11/14 16:25
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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Well the Church is pretty corrupt these days as it has conformed itself to society. The fact that illegal sexual contact occurs with greater frequency between adults and adolescents in public schools, in Protestant churches, and in things like youth sports (swimming, hockey, baseball) and institutions like the Boy Scouts, etc, is beside the point. Estimated sexual abuse in public schools is 100x that in the Church.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/has-media-ignored-sex-abuse-in-school/


But I get it. Priests are called to be an alter Christus. Everyone some how gets the special status of a priest. So the betrayal of the Catholic people by their priests and bishops is beyond belief.

I don't quite understand, however, why non Catholics or former Catholics get so agitated about it while ignoring the activity elsewhere.

Nobody is ignoring it elsewhere. The issue is more prominent with the Catholic church due to it's structure and actions.

The abuse that has occurred in schools results in arrests and jail time. Discovery of the crime is not followed by the school moving the teacher to another location to give them a new pool of victims to prey upon. Schools do not drain their bank accounts in specific states to avoid paying out lawsuits borne from the crimes committed.

There is also the factor regarding the size of the institution and the message they are trying to deliver. If you are going to grandstand on the subject of sex, declaring how to have sex, what methods of birth control are and are not acceptable, etc, you do open yourself up to attacks when it is learned that your actions do not coincide with the words preached. We see this heavily with politicians. A great example would be the feeding frenzy that occurred over Ted Haggard.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 15:37
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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Well the Church is pretty corrupt these days as it has conformed itself to society. The fact that illegal sexual contact occurs with greater frequency between adults and adolescents in public schools, in Protestant churches, and in things like youth sports (swimming, hockey, baseball) and institutions like the Boy Scouts, etc, is beside the point. Estimated sexual abuse in public schools is 100x that in the Church.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/has-media-ignored-sex-abuse-in-school/


But I get it. Priests are called to be an alter Christus. Everyone some how gets the special status of a priest. So the betrayal of the Catholic people by their priests and bishops is beyond belief.

I don't quite understand, however, why non Catholics or former Catholics get so agitated about it while ignoring the activity elsewhere.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 15:01
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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Not for nothing, but maybe if the Catholic Church wasn't so intent on raping children of their innocence followed by spending millions to cover it up, there might be more Catholic followers. This faith is morally bereft. I am routinely surprised that anyone gives money to them knowing that those dollars will likely be spent on continuing to push their amoral agendas.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 14:14
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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Yvonne I think you've drunk the cool aid of the Archdiocesan "New Energies" committee that is liquidating the patrimony of the local church (Orwell would approve of the moniker). The urban trends would account for cities that did not recover from the 1960 and 70s- like Camden etc. But even in many of these cities, white flight was followed by Hispanic influx and Filipino immigration- both Catholic populations.

By 2050, the population of Jersey City is projected to top 450,000- that's will be an all time high. However, it is likely that there were the city will only have 10 Catholic churches rather than the 23 it had at the height (I think I have that number about right). And in the heyday, these churches were filled with Mass goers to standing room only for five Masses each Sunday.

The reason these churches are closing is because of the massive loss of faith by the people. The biggest cause of the loss of faith is decadent and worldly clergy- from many of our parish priests to virtually every bishop. Good and holy priests are not promoted and are sidelined while the worst pull the shots. Francis is right out of this mold. The world is delighted but he is greatly accelerating the auto demotion of the Church.
e, the flight of the white folks was

Posted on: 2014/11/14 14:13
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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AlexC wrote:
oooh right. so these institutions are worth Billions, and what do they do with all that wealth? "spread the word of god" so they can collect more money?


don't be silly, its to payout all those molested by priests ... I surmise its one of the main reasons people are giving up on religion - The hand of god has a new meaning.

noting its not just priests, but also rabbi's and members of the jewish fraternity that have been paying out.

with all the buildings these religions own, they should be the first to convert their places of worship into low / controlled cost housing for the faithful !

As an infrequent church goer, the last 20 years has been a disaster and a huge disappointment - I hope the prison system has their fun with them and satan in the afterlife !

Posted on: 2014/11/14 5:00
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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oooh right. so these institutions are worth Billions, and what do they do with all that wealth? "spread the word of god" so they can collect more money?

Posted on: 2014/11/14 4:43
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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Top 10 religions in the world - The catholics are sitting pretty !

http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/w ... t-religions-in-the-world/

Posted on: 2014/11/14 4:32
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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Nothing. Why doesn't god find a way for you to keep your churches? (btw - i was raised Roman Catholic) maybe air-drop a suitcase with $10 million dollars or some bearer bonds?

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What does prayer have to do with people moving out of city? After the 1960s riot which involved downtown JC, a great many people left JC. In the 1970s, some buildings were sold for $500 (five hundred), the price of a brownstone.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 4:14
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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What does prayer have to do with people moving out of city? After the 1960s riot which involved downtown JC, a great many people left JC. In the 1970s, some buildings were sold for $500 (five hundred), the price of a brownstone.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 4:11
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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Maybe they didn't pray hard enough? I can't understand the most powerful being in the universe doesn't have money.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 4:04
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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The immigrants who arrived here stayed with their own ethnic group. Polish Catholics did not attend an Italian Catholic Church. It is the reason, 6th in JC has two Catholic Churches near each other. Italians went to one Church and the Polish went to their Church. The homilies were said in Italian and Polish languages. People were expected to attend their own Churches and schools. Their was an ethnic part to each individual church. But as people move in JC, they started to attend the church closest to them. Father Santora ran a column a while back on this issue.


And right up the block was the Italian bar (now the Music Box Cafe) and the Polish Bar (abandoned building across the street).

Posted on: 2014/11/14 3:05
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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The immigrants who arrived here stayed with their own ethnic group. Polish Catholics did not attend an Italian Catholic Church. It is the reason, 6th in JC has two Catholic Churches near each other. Italians went to one Church and the Polish went to their Church. The homilies were said in Italian and Polish languages. People were expected to attend their own Churches and schools. Their was an ethnic part to each individual church. But as people move in JC, they started to attend the church closest to them. Father Santora ran a column a while back on this issue.

Posted on: 2014/11/14 1:10
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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also what about;

a community arts studio and gallery
a community fitness center
a community library and reference / resources center with an area (room) for islamic / muslim pray times
a museum
a public hall and wedding reception


Posted on: 2014/11/14 0:14
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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Yvonne wrote:
I guess, some of you have never seen pictures of people at church gatherings in any Catholic Churches before 1950s, the crowds were large. People stayed in the neighborhood and moved out after World War 2. I know Holy Rosary during their feast displays old pictures of people who attended that church. When the highways system was up and running, there was a great exodus of ethnic Catholics to the suburbs and elsewhere. By the 1970s, the first church, St. Lucy closed its doors.


What the heck is an "ethnic Catholic"?

Posted on: 2014/11/14 0:03
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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I guess, some of you have never seen pictures of people at church gatherings in any Catholic Churches before 1950s, the crowds were large. People stayed in the neighborhood and moved out after World War 2. I know Holy Rosary during their feast displays old pictures of people who attended that church. When the highways system was up and running, there was a great exodus of ethnic Catholics to the suburbs and elsewhere. By the 1970s, the first church, St. Lucy closed its doors.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 23:54
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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The link in the below comment was posted on JCList before. Read the whole thing it is pretty interesting.

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from JJ comments…

I found this a while ago it is a detailed history of St Bridget’s Church. It is not only a history of the church but it gives an excellent look at how Jersey City transformed over the years.

“Beginning in the late 60's through the 70's on to the early 80’s, the conditions in the area around St. Bridget's Parish made no improvement. Instead, they went from bad to worst. The few people who still bravely remained in the area decreased each day as deterioration gave way to chaos and destruction.”

** ** ********
St. Bridget’s 125th Anniversary Book as recorded by Nora Villanueva around 1995

THE PERIOD OF FORMATION
The history of a Catholic parish, like any other unit in organized society, is reflective of the series of events in the larger unit. The history of St. Bridget's Parish is no exception, as it very much reflects the history of Jersey City where it is located. This is especially the case during the formation of St. Bridget's parish.

Full piece….

http://www.resurrectionparishjc.com/s ... history%20of%20bride.html



OMG (no pun intended) ...that church/restaurant in Maine is unreal.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 23:48
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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Yvonne wrote:
No, the population that is Catholic has moved away. Every church I mentioned took care of a particular ethnic group. There were German, Italians, Polish, Irish Catholics in great numbers in downtown JC. The homilies were given in those languages even if the Mass was in Latin. Besides, the Catholic Church, downtown has a large Jewish population that moved away. JC is the gateway to the rest of the US, when the immigrants came off Ellis Island, some stayed.


Huh? You say that as if people cannot become Catholic--like it's a race or an inherent trait.

People are constantly moving around and passing away. The point here is that there are not newer and younger Catholics in Jersey City to replace the old ones, despite the fact that the population has exploded.

I guess it's true that evangelism is not really a focus of Catholics in the US. (Although, that's definitely not the case south of the boarder.)

Posted on: 2014/11/13 23:43
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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No, the population that is Catholic has moved away. Every church I mentioned took care of a particular ethnic group. There were German, Italians, Polish, Irish Catholics in great numbers in downtown JC. The homilies were given in those languages even if the Mass was in Latin. Besides, the Catholic Church, downtown has a large Jewish population that moved away. JC is the gateway to the rest of the US, when the immigrants came off Ellis Island, some stayed.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 23:27
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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DTJC population is not as Catholic as it use to be. When I first moved DTJC it was mostly Latinos who went to church every Sunday. Most people who are moving dtjc are not interested in the Catholic church or any church for that matter. I attend Grace church from time to time because it does not feel like a old fashion church.

If you ever travel down Ocean ave on Sunday morning, you will see lots of church going people, even the drug dealers go to church.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 23:27
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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The work that has been done at the Centenary Church towards condos looks pretty nice from outside and I hear from the inside as well. At least we are not having monuments falling down.

As for other reconversions, I went to Church Brew in the 90s during my stint in PA, it absolutely rocked. Go Steel.. Brewers!


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Posted on: 2014/11/13 23:26
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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These are/were the Catholic Churches in Downtown JC: St. Lucy, St. Brigid, St. Michael, St. Anthony, Holy Rosary, St. Boniface, St. Mary, St. Peter, and Our Lady of Czechostowa. They closed because the population moved away. If you go to North Carolina or other places that Catholics are moving to, it is standing room only and there are five masses during Sunday. In my opinion, some of these churches should relocate to those areas.


I understand your point, but I think the language you used could be a bit misleading. The population, especially in the downtown area, has actually grown rapidly, not "moved away".

I think what you mean to say is that the Jersey City population has moved away from attending Catholic church. As I mentioned above, other Churches are thriving. It's just that they don't own or use large beautiful buildings with stained glass--probably because the property values are so darn high. Many of the protestant Church orgs use funds for missions, charity, growth, etc. Not that there is anything wrong with beautiful architecture--I'm just making the observation.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 23:10
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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These are/were the Catholic Churches in Downtown JC: St. Lucy, St. Brigid, St. Michael, St. Anthony, Holy Rosary, St. Boniface, St. Mary, St. Peter, and Our Lady of Czechostowa. They closed because the population moved away. If you go to North Carolina or other places that Catholics are moving to, it is standing room only and there are five masses during Sunday. In my opinion, some of these churches should relocate to those areas.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 22:40
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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What about the city acquiring the church and turning it into a school? As somebody mentioned in another thread, there will be a need for schools as the population increases by about 30-40,000 over the next 15-20 years.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 22:39
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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JCishome wrote:
Very sad. If you walk around and pay attention, you'll be struck by the huge number of churches downtown - and by their size and the fact that they each housed large, active congregations in their day. And in a post-Veterans Day vein, take note of the plaques listing the members who served and died in WWI and WWII; dozens from each church.

We live in a very different world.


There is a thriving church organization that uses the auditorium space in the public school by Hamilton Park on Sundays. It has a large and very active congregation. (The church organization is named "Hoboken Grace" since it started in Hoboken and then spread to Jersey City.)

The worshipers are still present in Jersey City. What has changed and continues to evolve is attitudes toward denominations and church org structures.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 22:13
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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The baptismal font that was placed in the church is from the original St. Peter's Church that was torn down in the late 1950s and place in the new St. Peter's Church until it closed. I hope it finds a new home. It is gorgeous.

Posted on: 2014/11/13 20:07
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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Churches do make excellent restaurant spaces. Here's one in Portland, Maine called Grace:

Resized Image

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Posted on: 2014/11/13 16:06
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Re: Another Downtown Jersey City Catholic church closing, building to be sold
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brewster wrote:
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user1111 wrote:
I tried to buy a church in JC about 10 years ago and they had some silly rule on the books that it had to stay a church... maybe that has changed, I hope so.


Apparently that stuff is unenforceable, look up the story of the Synagogue on Grove that is now a mosque. They tried to put in the deed that it could never be a house of worship other than Orthodox Jewish, the new buyers did what they wanted.

If a church turns a property into rentals, does it still pay no tax?



Also the Synagogue that was turned into condos on 5th street between Erie & Manila. I've always been curious about that one, old wooden Synagogue with beautiful windows.


More interesting than being wooden is that it is in the shape of a cross. I think it was originally the home of the congregation that built the church at Jersey and 4th (North Baptist???).

Posted on: 2014/11/13 1:49
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