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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Dolomiti wrote:
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Frank_M wrote:
The lines between medication, self-medication, recreation, or any other term you want to throw out there, are often poorly defined...

Whatever, man. I'm really not interested in watching you joust with a semantic windmill.


You’re the one arguing semantics, Dolomiti. I’m saying they’re less relevant to this discussion. But whatever, maaaaan.

Posted on: 2014/3/25 16:16
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Frank_M wrote:
The lines between medication, self-medication, recreation, or any other term you want to throw out there, are often poorly defined...

Whatever, man. I'm really not interested in watching you joust with a semantic windmill.


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Why do you think pharmaceutical companies spend billions of dollars on prime time television advertising for anti-depressants that require a doctor’s prescription?

Again: Not a lot of use marijuana for medical uses. There's very little evidence that pharmaceuticals donated anything to opposing any state referendums on marijuana.

I really don't think they give a crap.


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Further, none of these terms are helpful in addressing impact that the legal availability of weed may have on the promotion, image, and sale of mind-altering pharmaceutical drugs.

Shudder gasp.

You do understand that you're not scaring a lot of people with this type of talk, right?

Posted on: 2014/3/25 16:05
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Dolomiti, I agree with your points but the fact is Christie has repeatedly said he will veto any law that would expand our medical marijuana program, let alone one that calls for legalization.

No way this happens as long as he's in charge. And because he's a corrupt hypocrite, I bet he won't even call for this issue to be on the ballot like he did for gay marriage. He doesn't care about the will of the people.

My prediction is he vetoes this law if it progresses far enough and this becomes a campaign issue for the next election.

Posted on: 2014/3/25 15:57
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Dolomiti wrote:
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Frank_M wrote:
First of all, the word “recreational” is pointless in this context. We’re not talking about surfing, we’re talking about drugs...

Errr.... It's a valid term. If you are not using a drug for medicinal purposes, then you're using it for recreational purposes.


The lines between medication, self-medication, recreation, or any other term you want to throw out there, are often poorly defined by the reality of drug use, especially in the case of popular psychoactive compounds. It’s not an “either/or” proposition. Why do you think pharmaceutical companies spend billions of dollars on prime time television advertising for anti-depressants that require a doctor’s prescription? If we were really talking about “medication” in the most legitimate sense, doctors are already in the best positions to see to our drug needs, but that’s obviously not how Big Pharma wants it to work.

Further, none of these terms are helpful in addressing impact that the legal availability of weed may have on the promotion, image, and sale of mind-altering pharmaceutical drugs.

Posted on: 2014/3/25 15:39
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Monroe wrote:
To your first point, it's impossible to put the cork back in the bottle after it's opened. But why create another problem if we can avoid it?

Because prohibition is a massive failure.

It is not blocking a lot of people from smoking pot. It's filling our prisons with petty offenders. It's wasting law enforcement resources. It's not a "gateway drug." The proceeds go to criminals. We haven't seen California or Colorado implode because they legalized pot.

Legalizing marijuana will solve far more problems than it causes.


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more people with legal access to mind altering intoxicants will lead to more driving accidents, more children being exposed to mind altering intoxicants, with the corresponding social problems we already have with legal alcohol abuse.

We should acknowledge that legal efforts to curb DUI have been quite successful; fatalities involving DUI have dropped almost 50% since 1991. In fact, we could reallocate police time from "pointlessly busting pot dealers" to "enforcing DUI laws."

You're also operating under the assumption that "marijuana is bad bad bad," and the evidence doesn't back up most of those claims.


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My teen aged son has mourned two friends, one dead by alcohol, the other dead by heroin-both started by smoking pot as 'fun' in middle school. We will see more deaths of children if we legalize marijuana.

Anecdotes are not a valid way to set policy.

There is no solid evidence to prove that marijuana is a gateway drug, and the idea has been repeatedly disproven since 1999. Nor, I suspect, do you really know the path that these two individuals took to their unfortunate demise.

By the way, legal marijuana is well on its way to becoming a reality:

Resized Image

Support has been rising for over a decade, and there are now more supporters than opponents.

You might want to get used to the possibility that your favorite tobacconist might sell a very different type of "blunt" in a few years....

Posted on: 2014/3/25 15:34
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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richieveal wrote:
Should we legalize prostitution as well? I'm sure that would add to the tax chauffeurs.


You just opened up a big Pandora's box. I'm glad you asked.

Yes, we absolutely should. People will do it anyway and when it is illegal, the activity just goes underground. Prostitution, unlike a lot of other crimes, is usually consensual between the two parties involved. In the parts of Nevada where it is legal, the system works just fine. The women are not afraid to go to police if there's a problem and also get regularly tested. They are also not under the control of some pimp and forced to keep doing it when they don't want to anymore. They are independent contractors at all the brothels and can leave whenever they wish.

To the people who don't want or don't like prostitution in their neighborhood - guess what, it's already going on. Open up your phonebook or look on Craigslist.

Rhode Island, for a very long time, allowed prostitution because of a loophole in the law. The law said there could be no solicitation on the streets, but said nothing about what happens inside buildings. So plenty of brothels masquerading as massage parlors operated in plain view but it's not like they were totally in your face and they were largely confined to a few parts of Providence. Then some holier-than-thou legislators passed laws closing the loophole and making prostitution completely illegal in the state. A few massage parlors closed after that but the streets of Providence didn't really change. Prohibition does not work.

But I'm sure people feel SO much safer in Providence now. ~sarcasm

Posted on: 2014/3/25 15:20
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Frank_M wrote:
First of all, the word “recreational” is pointless in this context. We’re not talking about surfing, we’re talking about drugs...

Errr.... It's a valid term. If you are not using a drug for medicinal purposes, then you're using it for recreational purposes.

We should also acknowledge that marijuana is, by almost every measure, less harmful than alcohol.


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Now consider for example, the hundreds of billion dollars related to the development etc....

Again: The actual amount of marijuana used for medicinal purposes is quite small.

And we've already seen many states legalize medical marijuana, in fact most do so before legalizing recreational uses. This obviously does not fit the model of "Big Pharma" blocking medical marijuana.

Posted on: 2014/3/25 15:06
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Should we legalize prostitution as well? I'm sure that would add to the tax chauffeurs.

Posted on: 2014/3/25 15:02
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Any opposition to legalizing marijuana has nothing to do with protecting Big Pharma, jeez. Does anyone think that Big Pharma will be hurt by a new generation of stoners? Are anti-depressant sales going to be reduced because of young kids getting access to the potent pot now available?



So what's causing the opposition?


The knowledge that more people with legal access to mind altering intoxicants will lead to more driving accidents, more children being exposed to mind altering intoxicants, with the corresponding social problems we already have with legal alcohol abuse.


Using your logic, we should go back to banning alcohol. Do you support that?

Quote:

My teen aged son has mourned two friends, one dead by alcohol, the other dead by heroin-both started by smoking pot as 'fun' in middle school. We will see more deaths of children if we legalize marijuana.


Sorry to hear about your son's friends. However, correlation does not equal causation. If the both were vegetarians as youths, it would not mean that vegetarianism contributed to their deaths.


To your first point, it's impossible to put the cork back in the bottle after it's opened. But why create another problem if we can avoid it? I know many use marijuana, but I'm sure the number will grow substantially if it's legalized.

To your second point-nonsense. I knew this kid, and he introduced many other kids who later had issues with illegal drugs to them. Quite a little charismatic kid, sadly. He was a teen aged druggy Pied Piper and bad influence. At one point his parents actually moved out of town to try and give the kid a fresh start, to no avail.

And I have friends in CA (where getting a legal marijuana script is about as difficult as telling a MD you get the occasional headache) and the abuse of medical marijuana is a total joke.

Any adult with half a brain can find illegal pot now. Make it so easy that 21 year olds can cop and then resell to underage kids is monumentally stupid, in my opinion.

Posted on: 2014/3/25 14:20
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Monroe wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Any opposition to legalizing marijuana has nothing to do with protecting Big Pharma, jeez. Does anyone think that Big Pharma will be hurt by a new generation of stoners? Are anti-depressant sales going to be reduced because of young kids getting access to the potent pot now available?



So what's causing the opposition?


The knowledge that more people with legal access to mind altering intoxicants will lead to more driving accidents, more children being exposed to mind altering intoxicants, with the corresponding social problems we already have with legal alcohol abuse.


Using your logic, we should go back to banning alcohol. Do you support that?

Quote:

My teen aged son has mourned two friends, one dead by alcohol, the other dead by heroin-both started by smoking pot as 'fun' in middle school. We will see more deaths of children if we legalize marijuana.


Sorry to hear about your son's friends. However, correlation does not equal causation. If the both were vegetarians as youths, it would not mean that vegetarianism contributed to their deaths.

Posted on: 2014/3/25 11:24
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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caj11 wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Any opposition to legalizing marijuana has nothing to do with protecting Big Pharma, jeez. Does anyone think that Big Pharma will be hurt by a new generation of stoners? Are anti-depressant sales going to be reduced because of young kids getting access to the potent pot now available?



So what's causing the opposition?


The knowledge that more people with legal access to mind altering intoxicants will lead to more driving accidents, more children being exposed to mind altering intoxicants, with the corresponding social problems we already have with legal alcohol abuse.

My teen aged son has mourned two friends, one dead by alcohol, the other dead by heroin-both started by smoking pot as 'fun' in middle school. We will see more deaths of children if we legalize marijuana.


I'm sorry to hear about the deaths of your son's friends, but are you certain about that statement? Addicts are going to get the drugs no matter what the law is.

Not that it would necessarily work in the USA, but Portugal has either legalized or decriminalized nearly all recreational drugs. Drug usage has barely changed, and people are now coming out of the woodwork to get the treatment they were afraid to get before when drugs were illegal. The violent gangs and organized crime that controlled the drug trade are out of business. The city of Lisbon is still just as nice as it was before the laws were changed - it's not like you have heroine addicts shooting up in front of everybody or people on acid trips staggering around on the streets.

Regarding legal alcohol abuse, I wasn't around during the Prohibition but I am fairly confident in saying that organized crime THRIVED during that time and the Prohibition did far more harm than good.

As a side note, I will not be taking advantage of the law if marijuana is legalized, I find the smell rather repulsive. But making something illegal does not make the problems associated with it go away.


Legal prescription drugs that contain opiates is more responsible for Heroin abuse, than pot.

http://www.ncadd.org/index.php/in-the ... -rise-in-heroin-addiction

Posted on: 2014/3/25 11:09
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Monroe wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Any opposition to legalizing marijuana has nothing to do with protecting Big Pharma, jeez. Does anyone think that Big Pharma will be hurt by a new generation of stoners? Are anti-depressant sales going to be reduced because of young kids getting access to the potent pot now available?



So what's causing the opposition?


The knowledge that more people with legal access to mind altering intoxicants will lead to more driving accidents, more children being exposed to mind altering intoxicants, with the corresponding social problems we already have with legal alcohol abuse.

My teen aged son has mourned two friends, one dead by alcohol, the other dead by heroin-both started by smoking pot as 'fun' in middle school. We will see more deaths of children if we legalize marijuana.


I'm sorry to hear about the deaths of your son's friends, but are you certain about that statement? Addicts are going to get the drugs no matter what the law is.

Not that it would necessarily work in the USA, but Portugal has either legalized or decriminalized nearly all recreational drugs. Drug usage has barely changed, and people are now coming out of the woodwork to get the treatment they were afraid to get before when drugs were illegal. The violent gangs and organized crime that controlled the drug trade are out of business. The city of Lisbon is still just as nice as it was before the laws were changed - it's not like you have heroine addicts shooting up in front of everybody or people on acid trips staggering around on the streets.

Regarding legal alcohol abuse, I wasn't around during the Prohibition but I am fairly confident in saying that organized crime THRIVED during that time and the Prohibition did far more harm than good.

As a side note, I will not be taking advantage of the law if marijuana is legalized, I find the smell rather repulsive. But making something illegal does not make the problems associated with it go away.

Posted on: 2014/3/25 10:59
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Any opposition to legalizing marijuana has nothing to do with protecting Big Pharma, jeez. Does anyone think that Big Pharma will be hurt by a new generation of stoners? Are anti-depressant sales going to be reduced because of young kids getting access to the potent pot now available?



So what's causing the opposition?


The knowledge that more people with legal access to mind altering intoxicants will lead to more driving accidents, more children being exposed to mind altering intoxicants, with the corresponding social problems we already have with legal alcohol abuse.

My teen aged son has mourned two friends, one dead by alcohol, the other dead by heroin-both started by smoking pot as 'fun' in middle school. We will see more deaths of children if we legalize marijuana.

Posted on: 2014/3/25 10:26
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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If a New Jersey company requires drug testing for employees and bases hiring/retention decisions on positive tests for marijuana (they don't hire you/you get fired for a positive test)- does that go away or become an illegal hiring practice if marijuana is legalized in the state?


JerseyMom,

I don't know for sure, but I think it depends. I'm originally from Washington state, where recreational marijuana was also just legalized, and a relative of mine works for the Department of Corrections there. They still must pass periodic drug tests as a condition of employment regardless of marijuana legalization. They even had a special meeting to tell everyone at DOC that they still had to pass tests for marijuana use. Not sure it it's because it's a state agency or just up to the discretion of the employer, but that's how it's playing out there, at least for now.

Posted on: 2014/3/25 10:02
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Monroe wrote:
Any opposition to legalizing marijuana has nothing to do with protecting Big Pharma, jeez. Does anyone think that Big Pharma will be hurt by a new generation of stoners? Are anti-depressant sales going to be reduced because of young kids getting access to the potent pot now available?



So what's causing the opposition?

Posted on: 2014/3/25 9:54
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Any opposition to legalizing marijuana has nothing to do with protecting Big Pharma, jeez. Does anyone think that Big Pharma will be hurt by a new generation of stoners? Are anti-depressant sales going to be reduced because of young kids getting access to the potent pot now available?


Posted on: 2014/3/25 9:44
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Dolomiti wrote:
Recreational marijuana use is not a threat to pharmaceuticals.


First of all, the word “recreational” is pointless in this context. We’re not talking about surfing, we’re talking about drugs, and in one way or another they are all used for the purpose of altering biological and chemical process within the body.

Now consider for example, the hundreds of billion dollars related to the development, manufacture, marketing, advertising, distribution, prescription, and consumption of psychoactive drugs intended to alleviate the symptoms of depression—that is, to cope with a very common problem of the mind. Widespread, legal access to a powerful, naturally occurring psychotropic drug that can serve the same purpose—and on the upside, doesn’t act as an emotional straitjacket—would very likely put a dent in Big Pharma’s obscene goldmine.


Big Government > Big Pharma

Posted on: 2014/3/25 9:36
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Dolomiti wrote:
Recreational marijuana use is not a threat to pharmaceuticals.


First of all, the word “recreational” is pointless in this context. We’re not talking about surfing, we’re talking about drugs, and in one way or another they are all used for the purpose of altering biological and chemical process within the body.

Now consider for example, the hundreds of billion dollars related to the development, manufacture, marketing, advertising, distribution, prescription, and consumption of psychoactive drugs intended to alleviate the symptoms of depression—that is, to cope with a very common problem of the mind. Widespread, legal access to a powerful, naturally occurring psychotropic drug that can serve the same purpose—and on the upside, doesn’t act as an emotional straitjacket—would very likely put a dent in Big Pharma’s obscene goldmine.

Posted on: 2014/3/25 8:30
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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If a New Jersey company requires drug testing for employees and bases hiring/retention decisions on positive tests for marijuana (they don't hire you/you get fired for a positive test)- does that go away or become an illegal hiring practice if marijuana is legalized in the state?

Posted on: 2014/3/24 23:04
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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Frank_M wrote:
There was no corporate interest in the case of marriage, but what’s our governor’s relationship with say, Big Pharma?

Recreational marijuana use is not a threat to pharmaceuticals.

Heck, even medical marijuana isn't a threat to pharmaceuticals. Let's face it, whatever your opinion is of the efficacy of marijuana, the overwhelming majority of "medical" marijuana usage is thinly disguised recreational use.

Legalization will raise funds via sales taxes, and cut costs with law enforcement, reduce court time and costs, and reduce incarceration costs -- especially if they let past offenders off the hook.

Christie may fight it for awhile to hold onto some conservative bona fides, but it could also easily go the way of gay marriage -- fight until there's no real point. Or, in a few years, someone else may well legalize it.

Posted on: 2014/3/24 22:48
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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What is the stance of Mothers Against Drunk Drivers on another legal intoxicant?


???

Posted on: 2014/3/24 22:38
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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MaryAnn Spoto/The Star-Ledger

TRENTON — State Sen. Nicholas Scutari wants New Jersey to follow in the footsteps of Colorado and Washington State by legalizing the sale and possession of marijuana.

In an announcement this afternoon, Scutari (D-Union), chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said he plans to introduce legislation this term calling for the legalization of the drug that so far is only allowed in New Jersey for medicinal purposes.

Beginning Jan. 1, Colorado began allowing the sale of recreational marijuana to those 21 or older. Washington's law takes effect later this year while officials set up a licensing system. Several communities in that state, however, have passed laws banning marijuana growers, processors and retailers.

Scutari is holding a news conference call at this hour outlining the details of his plan.


YES!! but I'm skeptical if it ever becomes reality....


http://www.imarijuana.com/laws/laws-by-country/japan

Posted on: 2014/3/24 21:22
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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What is the stance of Mothers Against Drunk Drivers on another legal intoxicant?

Posted on: 2014/3/24 21:02
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Re: Legalized pot: NJ lawmaker says he will introduce bill
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07310 wrote:
The States are looking at Colorado's tax revenue generated by the sale of pot and most want in on the bounty.


Increased tax revenue does not donate to Governor Christie. Big Pharma does. Won't happen as long as he's in charge. But it can be a campaign issue for the next election.

Posted on: 2014/3/24 19:32
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Posted on: 2014/3/24 18:22
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The States are looking at Colorado's tax revenue generated by the sale of pot and most want in on the bounty.

Posted on: 2014/1/24 16:12
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user1111 wrote:
Funny, that's what they said about gay marriage. I guess when folks start suing the state it will speed up the process.


There was no corporate interest in the case of marriage, but what’s our governor’s relationship with say, Big Pharma? How many products listed in the Physician’s Desk Reference become superfluous with open access to a highly effective, versatile drug that is difficult to monopolize?

Posted on: 2014/1/24 15:03
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SOS wrote:
Will never happen with Christie is governor.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... a_program_expansions.html



Funny, that's what they said about gay marriage. I guess when folks start suing the state it will speed up the process.

Posted on: 2014/1/24 14:23
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Will never happen with Christie is governor.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... a_program_expansions.html


Posted on: 2014/1/24 14:21
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Posted on: 2014/1/24 14:11
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