Guess maybe I'm one of the first...

Came home to find a hanger on my front doorknob saying

"Dear Property Owner:

Sorry we missed you! A representative of Realty Appraisal Company has visited your home today in an attempt to conduct the interior inspection necessary for your municipality's property revluation. It is very important that we conduct this inspection, as it will directly affect your property taxes. We will visit again on ___, between ___ and ___. If this is not a convenient time, please contact us at ___ (filled in phone number). We will gladly make an appointment with you."


I guess I'll be able to give some details on what actually goes on this coming Saturday. That's when they're scheduled to return.

I'm in Greenville, between Kennedy and West Side. If anyone else is in the neighborhood, I guess it's time be ready for a visit.

Oops! I was wrong. This is not the area near Pathmark. It's farther down the highway near Sip. My mistake. I got my toxic landfill sites confused.

Not 100% sure, but I believe that area being discussed used to be the location of a big box in the past. Wasn't that the site of Great Eastern / Valley Fair many, many years ago ('70's)? Those were there even before the K-Mart moved in.

The K-Mart would likely suffer the most in terms of business. There are not many mom & pop type places down there. There is the little strip mall, but by in large I don't think they provide the same type services that a big box would offer. There is a PetLand, Stadium Pizza, I think it's a tanning salon, yes, of course, a dollar store, and Pathmark. That's about it, I think. There's a Chinese restaurant across the street, near where the bowling alley used to be.

Back in the old days, aside from Great Eastern / Valley Fair, I think this was also the location of the drive-in movie theatre. Yes, JC had one "back in the day!" Pretty cool, huh?

JC has changed. We used to have a stadium, a bowling alley, a drive in movie theatre... up the road a bit there was a roller rink, etc. Maybe we need some of these type of things back. Maybe that's why so many kids today either stay home playing video games or wind up on the streets with nothing to do. That usually does not turn out well. Maybe I'm just old.

Between us, we could gurantee at least 3 season ticket holders! That's a start! If we were to drag the family or friends along, hey, 10, maybe even a dozen! I wonder if any investors ever read these threads.

Let's start the movement to bring a franchise to JC!





It'll never happen, but it would be awesome. Anything would be awesome. We have so much... nothing. In terms of sports, anyway (no offense to HS sports teams). Wouldn't that build a sense of community? Anything, hockey, baseball, basketball, whatever. Something we could all come together to root for, as a city, and put aside our differences for a couple hours a week? I think it would be cool, but meh... it's all just pie in the sky.

Side story - a bunch of buddies and I took a road trip to Montreal to see the World Cup of Hockey a bunch of years ago. We were pretty equally divided, Ranger fans and Devil fans, and we'd usually argue till the cows came home. It was really cool to all be on the same side for a change. Never thought I'd ever high-five a Ranger fan. Great trip. Great memories. Same with Olympic hockey, obviously we all root for USA, but we never got to go in person.

Trenton is too far west. If they want a Devils minor league team in NJ, they ought to go east coast. Brick and Wall and places like those are packed with Devils fans.

I think the Devs are re-tooling their whole minor league organization at this point. I don't even know if they will have a minor league team for this upcoming season. They probably have to, somewhere, somehow, because the injuries over the last couple seasons have been bad and they've had to call up several players. To go without the safety net of a minor league system would be a little bit scary.

Anyway, back to the Jersey City club, I think that must be a type-o or a misquote in the article. This site lists pretty much every hockey related club in NJ history (even including the old Rock n Rollers inline roller hockey club that played in the Meadowlands!). No sign of a JC franchise.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/te ... &tleague=&y1=&y2=&x=0&y=0


Interestingly, the current NJ Devils aren't the first club with that name in our states past. There was a club called the Jersey Devils until 1973 or something. Interesting.

I was just reading an article about The Trenton Devils hockey team ceasing operations.

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/20 ... vils_skating_on_thin.html

In the article it mentions that there was a minor league hockey team located in Jersey City at some point.

"A spokesman for Mercer County, the owner of the Sun Center, also declined comment.
Since teams in Atlantic City and Jersey City folded, the T-Devils are the state?s only remaining minor league hockey team."

I don't remember there ever being a minor league hockey team here, as long as I've been alive, anyway. I did a quick Google search and came up empty there too. Anyone have any info on this? For some reason, I enjoy researching pro or minor league teams (of any sport) that have played in Jersey City, especially at the former Roosevelt Stadium. I know they had ice there in the winter time, so I'm wondering if it's an old franchise that played there.

Thanks in advance if anyone has any info.

>> "But one thing's for sure: 12.75% of the students in JC that are in charters are getting educated on 5% of the education budget, and that can't continue."

Fair point.

(sorry i don't know how to use the quote feature properly.)

To be honest, it's people like me who are the problem. Those of us who are just starting to pay attention now, in a time of crisis. Had more people (including myself) been paying attention all along, maybe we wouldn't be in the dire straits we find ourselves in now.

Better late than never, but it does feel like trying to close the barn door after the cows already left (whatever that saying is).

Child study teams are directly related to special education services. That's part of what I found out in that conversation with the parent. The child study team are the people who do testing and placement for special education kids. They are also the people who often have contact with the parent to explain the program that their child is in and monitor how well the child is doing. The team is comprized of a few members, including a psychologist who does testing, a learning consultant, and (I think) a social worker. One of those people will provide case management services for the child and family.

And as far as being lame, I do agree that the PDF linked is somewhat vague because there are no specific breakdowns nor much in the way of explanations, but that's why the very first line of that post says it's at least a starting point. I didn't write it, so if your comment was an attempt to tweak me, you missed the bullseye. I'm just the one putting it out there. Lame or not, at least it's some information, and some information is better than no information. It seems to have raised a few new questions in your mind, so apparently it does have some value. If that information leads to more questions, that's a good thing. We should all question things more. We should all be questioning where our money goes. We earn it and pump it into the system - in vast quantities. To sit back and let the powers that be make it disappear at their whim is self destructive. It's good to question JCBOE. It's good to question charter schools. It's good to question anyone who has control over your hard earned money.

Just re-read what I wrote. I thik it might be worded a little poorly.

I AM NOT trying to say that charter schools don't deserve more funding. They probably do.

All I'm saying is that I think there should be an accurate comparison of costs based on the services provided by both types of schools.

I am not questioning the PEOPLE involved, not the kids, nor their parents, but I do want to compare the numbers accurately.

I want to look at numbers for services provided and compare them, that's all.

Here is a starting point for actual information. It was (I think) the second result down on a Google search using the search terms "JCBOE budget." LOL So much for secrecy.

http://www.jcboe.org/media/120428/userfr%20budget.pdf


On page 2, about half way down on that document it says that over 37 million dollars in funds were transferreed to charter schools this year. If charter schools are serving 3,600 students, as reported in the article linked to in the post above, that's over 10K per student.

NOW... having just looked this up and all, I've still got a lot of digesting that I want to do. I'm not trying to jump to any conclusions either way, however, I still have a problem with the 17K+ per student number. Yes, it's even listed in that document as the comparitive cost per student, however, at first blush, it does appear to me that that number is an average for all students, including special education.

I had a very interesting conversation with someone who has a child in the special education program in JC public. The cost of educating a special education student is way, way way higher than it is for a general education student. Higher than I even thought about before. To summarize the conversation will have to be another post because it will be long. But as far as I can tell so far, I don't think it's fair to take an average for all public school students and compare it to the cost for charter school kids who would generally require much less intensive services.

My math? I don't have any math. I'm still trying to figure out which numbers to look at. I don't have any solutions. The fact that ANY kids, whether charter or traditional should go without is the problem. We collectively put enough money into the system that all our kids ought to be well taken care of, no matter where they go to school.

90% of what? That's what I'm trying to understand. I do think that all schools ought to be fully funded, but what, exactly is full funding? We need an answer to that question.

If charters are not providing the same services, you can't expect to be funded for the same services.

Is it 90% of the general education student budget? I really don't know. Can anyone pinpoint what that number is? Maybe it's not fair to expect an answer here. It seems that this question has been under debate for years already. Maybe it's not meant to be solved in a casual manner, with a few posts in a community message board. Maybe I can try to look it up. The budgets ought to be public record somewhere. The whole thing really does seem to be very fuzzy.

It's not meant to be frustrating. I'm really trying to understand.


edited to add - You edited your last post, so this looks out of place in response, but I'll leave it anyhow. I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand.

I'm not making any value judgments, nor am I trying to take sides. I'm just trying to understand exactly what's going on. In the process of trying to come to that understanding, I've found a few arguments, both ways, that seem to oversimplify things. It's not a matter of doing the same thing for less money while doing a better job of it. It's apples and oranges, yet it seems to be the "cost per pupil" statement that is the rallying cry for the charter school supporters. I think that people are just taking the public school budget and dividing it by the number of students, while doing the same for the charter schools. It's more complicated than that. Traditional public schools and charter schools both have obstacles to overcome, but it seems to me that the traditionals have to address a more varied student population.

I would never say that one child deserves anything more or anything less than any other child. I wish all children could have everything they need to become independent and successful in life. I am absolutely not saying that these children over here deserve this much, while those over there deserve that much. I am not attacking charter schools, public schools, or ANY of the children. I am only trying to say that I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the arguments might be used conveniently to make one side or the other look better. You can make numbers say anything you want by factoring some things in or some things out.

I guess the question would be, 90% of what? I think that where some of the sticking point is.

From what I've been able to learn in the last few days, I think that this is a major complicating factor in terms of the use of the "cost per pupil" statement:

Traditional public schools have to educate all students, including those with disabilities, English second language students, etc.

In the case of children with severe disabilities, a usual classroom ratio is one teacher, one teacher assistant, and (maybe) a teacher aide. That's potentially three people drawing a salary in one classroom. And to complicate it even more, those classrooms may max out at 6 students.

Traditional classrooms seem to be averaging somewhere between 20 to 25 students with one teacher.

Although I'm sort of new to trying to understand this situation, as far as I've been able to tell so far, most charter schools are not offering special education classrooms. I could definitely be wrong on this, but that is what I know so far.

So, in my eyes, right now, the use of the term "cost per pupil" could be a somewhat misleading term. I'm getting the feeling that the numbers are skewed a bit. What would the cost per student be for the charter schools be if they had to do the same things that the public schools have to?

Do I think that there is fat that can be cut from JCBOE? Yes, right now, I do. Do I think that JCBOE is run perfectly? No, I don't. However, I think I'm beginning to see the cost per pupil statement as a bit of a rallying cry to try to discredit the traditional public schools and laud the charters as doing a better job for much less. I just don't think it's such a black and white comparison as it's made out to be on the surface.

No. Honestly, I don't.

It's just a tough situation. I want to say, "Well, just take the money from somewhere else - some other agency, or something," but that has implications, too, and that wouldn't be fair. People would suffer. Services would suffer. There are no easy answers, especially in this economy.

Thank you. I was not aware until now about the percentage of underfunding compared to the original concept.

Now, not to make it into a game of 20 questions, but these additional funds would be deducted directly from the JCBOE budget, correct? I recall hearing that JCBOE allocates monies from their budget to cover the costs of funding charter schools (underfunded as they may be), but I am not 100% sure if this is correct. In other words, this is not a request by charter schools for additional funding (which could require a tax hike), it's just more of a (to keep the image simple in my mind) tug-of-war between public and charter schools over already existing funding and how it gets spent. I know this is probably remedial stuff for the people who have more knowledge about the situation.

Although maybe not the most eloquent visualization, would this be the general concept? My main concern is about where the funds would come from. I mean, it's not that I'd like another tax hike, I don't think anyone would, but at the same time, I don't feel warm and fuzzy about taking funding away from kids, either. I don't think the kids in the public schools have it too easy. I wish there was a magic pot of gold somewhere where everyone could be funded properly without anyone having to suffer, but of course, that's just never going to happen. The whole thing is so complicated. I wish we could take good care of all our kids all the time.

OK, having just read a couple articles, is the issue on the table tonight about the original idea that charter schools would receive 90% of the funding that the traditional public schools are allocated per student? It appears that the charter schools have not ever been given that 90%.

Is the term equitable funding being used in reference to getting up to that 90% figure, or does it mean 100%?


edit to add - THank you, K-Lo for the informative reply above! I think we were typing simultaneously. That does answer my questions. Thanks!

I'll admit I'm not up on the funding formulae nor what the specific issue on the table tonight might be, but on the face of it (from the title of this topic), it sounds like charter schools are asking for the same funding per student that public schools receive.

Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of having charter schools to begin with? I thought they were supposed to be so much better for so much less money. Has it just become and issue of "better" but not cost efficiency?

Since charter schools operate independent of the superintendent and the related infrastructure, if approved, where would the additional monies be directed?

Again, I admit my ignorance on this topic, and it's not meant as a bash post. It's just curiosity, and to be honest, when people are asking for more money in an economy like this, it sounds like a tax hike could be needed to fund it. The taxes are almost crippling already.

I will go try to find some additional info and enlighten myself. I'm sure it's a complicated situation that I may only see the tip of the iceberg. If anyone has any additional info to add that could help clarify the positions involved, it would be most appreciated. I'd really like to understand the situation as clearly as possible.

Thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_City_A%27s

And not to be a huckster, but scroll down about 4 items... pretty cool, eh?

http://www.ebbets.com/category/s?keyword=jersey+city

Mercedeses? Benzes, okay, maybe, but Mercedeses? That just can't possibly be right, could it?

A virtual tour of the Hudson Mall, BEFORE the building was "renovated" into it's current configuration:

Upon walking into the main entrance, I remember a hair cutting place on the left - "Foxy Locks" was the name, I believe. Actually, wait - I'm wrong - originally, it was, and get your "Holy Cow I Forgot All About That Place" button ready - Donut King! LOL HAHAHA!! With the giant donuts painted on the walls! LOL Next to that was the snack bar. I think it was just called "The Snack Bar," appropriately enough. LOL It might have been Pepino's. Maybe that name came later on, not sure. I think Indian Village has always been on the right side, as far as I can remember, but the configuration was different. They extended the entrance hallway during the "renovation" to fit some extra store fronts in there. Anyhow, there was also a Zales jeweler in the mall, as well.

Upon getting to the main corridor, I remember straight in front of you was a jeans store. LOL - I think it was actually called "The Jean Store." See, things were much simpler back then! The cool thing about that place was that they did iron-on T-shirts. They were like the only place around that did them back in the 70's, when that was like "hot, new technology." LOL I had a KISS (rock band) T-shirt printed there, but you could get anything, from the General Lee to the hot pin-up model of the day. They did lettering, as well.

Off to the right was the pretzel kiosk out in the middle of the floor, where they sold the soft, doughy, slated pretzels. Oddly enough, it was named, "Mr. Pretzel!" LOL I think the "Cookie Box" came some years later.

Do you remember that they had those large plastic boxes with trees planted in them?

Down the corridor to the left, there was the leather kiosk where they'd punch holes in your belt, put studs on stuff, or burn some designs into various leather goods. Down that side was the previously mentioned steak house, the Rodeo, and also a butcher shop. Was it "Fabulous Meat City," or am I crossing the name up with the place on City Line? The movie theatre was down there, too, back when it was called "Hudson Plaza Cinema" and they only had 2 screens. I saw the original Star Wars there as well as Jaws.

Opposite those store fronts was, and get this one - "DelFino's Sports World." There's a blast from the past! Of course, the JC staple, Wow Records (before turning into Wow Music some years later). There was also a plant store in that area. Nothing but live plants and shrubs.

Do you remember fishing in the Hudson Mall? They'd set up a giant swimming pool and fill it with trout and you'd pay a quarter to get a fishing rod baited with a single niblet of corn. I never saw anyone ever catch a fish. EVER. HAHAHA!!

They also used to have Halloween costume contests every year. Those were fun.

At one time they had the original Bat Mobile (from the TV show) on display and the General Lee from the Dukes of Hazzard TV show.

There have got to be tons more things from the Hudson Mall to recall... It actually used to be a really cool mall.

Quote:

Greenville, close to West Side, 100%. Born, bred and raised. Still haven't escaped yet.

EVERYONE around here had a membership at Mac's Video (except me)! That was THE video store to belong to. All my friends used to go there.

Has the Montgomery/West Side bus gone under? It's been 20+ years since riding a bus for me. Do you remember when they went from the old, 60's style busses, with the oval windows and the whole thing, to the new (for that time) big, boxy white busses, with the giant red MW painted on the front? I never saw a kid with backward facing feet, though. Sorry on that one. I'm not sure if it might be the Gumpy person that you referred to, but I do remember a dude who used to come around once in a while who was a bit "off," maybe. Rumor had it that he knocked out his own teeth with a hammer. He was always dressed a little on the shabby side, and he wore a bandana on his head way before anyone else that I remember. His skin had a slight olive tone to it, he had blonde wispy hair, and (obviously) no teeth. Does this description remotely match the person you're referring to?

Here's one - if you remember the good 'ole #9 bus, you must be a fairly seasoned JC resident. What's that been gone, maybe 20 years now?

And where the Rite Aid complex is on Danforth near 440 - that used to be the bus depot. And there was the coolest little news stand there out by the sidewalk. It was a shack, pretty much. Gary's I think it was called. Smokes, newspaper and a buttered roll on the way to work every morning.

And in my neighborhood, anyway, it was the craziest thing. In the spring/summer months, a guy in a beat up truck used to drive down the streets ringing a bell. People would all come running out with steak knives and hedge clippers and stuff. He was a knife/blade sharpener. I guess he had some kind of grinding stone, or something, but EVERYBODY knew what the bell ringing meant - it was the sharpener guy! LOL Could you imagine several people running down the street chasing a truck with knives and scissors and hedge clippers nowadays?? There would be a riot or something.

Anyone remember Bonetti Pizza on Kennedy Blvd? That's got to be gone close to 25 years, and I think the sign is still there and I think the store front is still vacant.

Spot on as usual! Thanks, Eddie! It was indeed Sound Machine! Thanks!

There were indeed baseball, football, ice skating and concerts at Roosevelt Stadium, but anyone remember seeing 4th of July fireworks there? Really can't remember if it was a "professional" display or just a whole bunch of locals sort of cooperatively blowing up their stuff all in the same place.

It was before my time, but I remember reading somewhere that Roosevelt Stadium was an air field / airport at one point, as well.

I have bricks from the Stadium in my front yard. granted, they're probably radioactive, but I still have a part of the stadium. Those, and some sort of Jersey City Indians rain slicker that they gave away on some promotional night, or something. Also a plastic replica batting helmet. Black with a red bill and a white capital "I" on the front. Heh... memories...

Heh - people used to learn how to parallel park their cars in the RS parking lot, too. They had cinder blocks filled with cement with steel poles sticking up out of them. That was a JC staple - learn to drive at Roosevelt Stadium.

Not to pile on with the food-type places - it's just that so many have come and gone over the years, but what about this:

Gino's -> KFC -> Church's Fried Chicken -> Palmer Video -> West Coast Video.

I *think* that's the evolution of that building on West Side by NJCU over the last 35-40 years, anyhow.

Which brings me to the old Gino's (the deli / sandwich place on Kennedy Blvd). Best. Meatball. Parm. EVER.

Now my stomach is growling.

Wow... some really great old-school JC references on here. Really good ones.

Someone mentioned the steak house in the Hudson Mall a few posts back. I believe it was called the Rodeo.

There used to be an electronics store right on JSQ. For some reason I remember it having a sign on the front that said "The Beast of the East." It was a picture of a little green monster guy holding up a sign with that printed on it. I don't know if that was the actual name of the place, but it may have actually been a Crazy Eddie store. I don't know why I'm recalling a Crazy Eddie being in JC... not sure exactly what the name of the store was.

Anyone remember the Bulldog Inn, on Sterling Ave? I think maybe some of that Bones crew previously mentioned might have frequented that place. I was just a tiny kid when that place was open, but even still, I remember it being a tough crowd.

Right in the same neighborhood, there was an actual butcher shop - not just processed cold cuts - Pellegrino's Meat Market, just a block or so away. He was in business right up until recently. Unfortunately, he's gone now. Best meat and sandwiches around, and Jimmy is a really nice guy.

In my estimate, crime, etc. would be about the same in both locations, but at West Side you'd be right near Henry's Wok - best Chinese food in JC, hands down. Probably better access to deli's / convenience stores, too, but I know there are a couple of those where you're coming from, as well. Pretty similar locations as far as quality of life IMO.

Good luck and hello, potential neighbor.

Quote:

No, not so far, at least - thank goodness. The wake was not a circus at all. It was incredibly respectful and somber. The line to get into the front door stretched from Kennedy to Summit (on Pavonia) at one point (about 1 hour, 45 minute wait), and although there were hundreds and hundreds of people on line, you could pretty much hear a pin drop. Media was across the street, filming and taking photos only sporadically and in about as respectful a manner as possible in such a situation.

As far as who showed up (politically), a friend I was with had an eagle eye. He spotted Prosecutor DiFazio and a few of our Council members who have not been implicated in this whole thing, specifically Mr. Sottolano and Ms. Richardson. I saw an interview with Ms. Flood on TV later in the day, so she was there too. We saw Chief Comey going in as well. We were there fairly early, so it's quite possible other pols attended later in the day. Although we did not see Mayor Healy at the time we were there, I saw photos that he did indeed attend at some point.

I believe I read that King's suit will continue, at least for the time being.

Hope some of this helps. IMO, everything went off in an extremely dignified manner yesterday. Hopefully things will follow suit today, and I'm pretty confident they will. Thank goodness this has remained separate from all the other stuff going on at the moment.

Apparently the RUMORS of his passing were FALSE.

As of this morning JJ reports he is still critical, saying that there were rumors that he passed.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... y_police_officer_mar.html


Why don't we all wait for official word before burying anyone.