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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
 
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who needs even video imaging. i would imagine that unlike the IA investigations the officers hired for private duty should be publicly available. this should narrow down the suspect pool . toss in a little google image searching and we could probalby find at least one of these guys.
and its funny that people are essential saying no harm no foul when in fact, while under the diligent protection of these officers and their brethren there was an explosive arson attempt for which people associated with the construction company were arrested (and eventually released), vehicles damaged and other near terrorism of the tenants.
Posted on: 2007/10/23 19:25
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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I've spoken to fulop. but frankly he was not tremendously helpful on the issues i approached him about although to his credit he did return my call. seems like a generally nice guy.
i have been doing my own followup and have found out from people who work there and can check their full archives that they never covered this story. I just dont think they heard about it. And to me administrative is not enough. they commmmited a crime: drinking in public and that should be charged just like any citizen. or are the police above the law. dont get me wrong they should have been hit administratively as well. but one does not cover the other. one is about the law (charges) and the other is about your job (administrative fines). seems to me these guys probably avoided the criminal aspects of this that none of us generally would have been able to do. so small charge or big charge, these guys probably got away with no charge (criminally speaking). and if that is true, you have your corruption right there. i mean ethics are no joke; in some states letting a potential vendor give a contract evaluator a pen is considered corruption and for good reason. the rules have to apply for everyone equally.
Posted on: 2007/10/11 21:18
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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right and i forgot, every bit of paper public and private documenting how this was handled.
Posted on: 2007/10/11 20:43
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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to me the steps are :
1) get the issue out to as many as possible (i try to help with that .. but most of the rest should be done by journalists who cant be ignored) 2)get all involved on the record with statement about what they understood and did at the time 3) verify press coverage or lack thereof (journal def didnt in anyway) 4)perhaps a couple of lawyer perspectives why is everyone so focused on fulop? do we know that he was in office at the time?
Posted on: 2007/10/11 19:24
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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sefzi, i would say post number 9 calling for the poster to be kicked off by brian_em is pretty tantamount to wanting to squash the story/ remove thread.
pink, i have never trashed you. i thought you and i had an honest pm communication. and i have never said you were lying. I just dont believe that you in fact know all the facts. you may be right but it is not based on facts. you have a number of assumptions you are making unless you can connect the dots of how you KNOW. Hearsay is not proof. No one put you in the position of defending your version of history other than yourself when you asserted it. And i havent posted a thing on nj.com. in part because no offense to the journal but this is the biggest venue for downtown jc (kudos webmaster). and secondly, after i saw the posts yesterday and tried to register so i could comment as well, i never got a confirmation email or whatever to be able to post. so, no i am not jcdirt or anyone else in the thread. if i can help karma along i am all for it. karma is a lifetime commitment and if i can help keep it heading to the right people all the better. yeah i though 111 was a raw deal but it was more than the mayor, goldman, and an arsonist involved. there were more than a few spineless or greedy councilman, a bunch of wanna be hippy artists who wouldn't know how to fight a guerrilla fight if their lives depended on it. And a bunch of myopic downtowners who only saw cheap rent for hippies instead of the value of arts to a community. And now the main part of downtown will feel the pain with the flooded housing market, tax abatements that float on the shoulders of tax payers and that of their children. the art scene is still what jc is trying to trade on in its pathetic cynical partnership with developers. and i am not even an artist so had very little vested interest but i wanted what the people had voted for: WALDO. The evisceration of the arts district is the direct result of a corrupt bureaucracy and i want to destroy that corruption in every form i can find and a big part of that is by letting people know what i see.
Posted on: 2007/10/11 18:25
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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sure we are right now but it seems like there is a parallel thread populated by some who post here. and in my orig post i said that the comments to which i referred were on jclist and nj.com. On jclist the calls have been more generally to have the webmaster remove the thread, that the situation is old news,the story was already covered in the press, that the officers were already appropriately punished. All of that seems like an attempt to smoother and dismiss the story. so the words were not spoken but there seemed to be a concerted effort to have people stop looking into and at this .. which to me equates to the same thing.
so lets not be naive and pretend that this conversation is only happening here. Quote:
Posted on: 2007/10/11 17:05
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Quote:
so i guess it is a case of kill the messenger. thanks for clarifying. fortunately my skin is thick enough to bear the slings. i suggest people point their ire in the right direction: the people in the video and the people who got it and didn't make it public. Also, pink says these guys were suspended but at least as far as i know drinking in public is a criminal offense. so unless those suspensions are matched with criminal charges for their crimes they still got off. And those charges should have public documentation. I have gotten a ticket for drinking in public in my youthful days and had to go to court losing a day of work, pay a fine etc. I am sure it is in some system publicly somewhere ... right along side my ticket for being a scoff-law ( i am proud of that one.. right up there with being a pirate, although that ticket too came form police malfeasance)
Posted on: 2007/10/11 16:53
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Quote:
per your request from nj.com by SalMonela, 10/9/07 21:31 ET The JCFD get kudos for putting out a fire in an empty building by spraying water on the fire, no mention of the JC Fire dept guy that was caught stealing stuff from fire scenes a few months back. Or the FD guy down the shore who was caught setting fires so he could put them out so he could seem to be a hero. But a video alledgedly depicting cops drinking on duty from five years ago is posted and everyone here is ready to punish these guys again and again for something that again HAPPENED FIVE YEARS AGO. No mention of the good job the PD does, cases solved, criminals caught. Ever hear of double jeopardy? The were caught, they were punished, end of story. Guess the saying is true, everyone loves the fire dept, and everyone hates the police dept. by DeepImpact, 10/9/07 11:40 ET Re: They should all be indicted by JCdirt, 10/9/07 here this happened at least 5 years ago and the Officers were severly punished at the time, I know all these guys , I like some of them and others I don't ,but this seems out of line to just post this now. I would like to know what is your agenda or objective in posting this video at this time, did one of them give you a ticket or something. Get a clue then maybe you can get a LIFE !!! and for the exact quote 17544.2.1.2. You're perfect by KidBlast42, 10/10/07 17:53 ET Re: They should all be indicted by JCdirt, 10/10/07 NOT! Everyone expects a cop to be 100% perfect, they human beings like everyone else. They do extraordinary things everyday like it's nothing while the average citizen would shit in their pants. Give the guys a break. i will expect my $2.. thank you and keep the thread alive sefzi
Posted on: 2007/10/11 16:17
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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i was not aware that pinkowitz was the encyclopedia brittanica. I have seen her posts and she and i have pm'd. her statements are far from conclusive IMHO. Not casting aspersions .. i think she believes that what she asserts is true.
Posted on: 2007/10/11 16:11
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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i got a dollar that says your wrong!
Posted on: 2007/10/11 15:16
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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I agree and find the number of posts saying to give the cops a break kind of shocking. This has been bumper year for questionable shootings all across the country. Even in NY where a law was passed to give police sobriety tests after shootings , the policeman's union is fighting the law. these guys are not stocking shelves.. they carry guns. I doubt that many people would find it acceptable if a bus driver or pilot was discovered to be drunk while working even if it was a freelance gig and only got a slap on the wrist. At least according to posts on the NJ.com forum the guy driving in the video was promoted to LT. People seem to forget how quickly one can go form being a citizen to a arrested and if the people who wield the power have no public accountability how safe are we?
Posted on: 2007/10/11 4:43
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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ahh but my replies are responses to your comments for the most part. there is freedom of speech and if you dont like what i have to say you have the freedom not to look at it. but otherwise i guess we will have to live and let live.
Posted on: 2007/10/10 4:55
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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C'est la vie. but with every comment you just keep it alive.. thank you.Quote:
Posted on: 2007/10/10 4:46
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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Perhaps at some point you will know enough about me to realize that i have more hopes to see the city hall torn down and started over from scratch than desire to hold office there. I am disgusted by both parties but since i unfortunately have to tolerate the stench of our filthy local pols at closest proximity i start at home. Name a pol and i am ambivalent to negative. nothing was misrepresented in my posts or on the site that put up the vid. for some reason you just dont like things that seem like they may be spun to hurt the current mayor. i dont care who it damages as long as the party is guilty. i had my blind loyalty glands removed.
Quote:
Posted on: 2007/10/10 4:33
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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you talk and talk yet nothing contradicts the fact of the video. in fact each of your posts helps keep the issue alive anyway so pls keep it coming. Feel free to keep your current choice of eyes wide shut as you seem very comfortable on your butt holding down the status quo. Even r_pinkowitz acknowledges that this almost certainly real cops drinking in uniform while armed. given the complete lack of awareness of the specific media coverage by anyone else. along with others who directly contradict her statements and had not seen or heard of this in the popular press in JC or NJ it did not get the attention it deserved. i just cant figure were you stand.. Are you in favor of police drinking on in uniform? Do you think the video was fabricated?Or is your issue that it happened more than 48hrs ago and people must not be concerned with issues which may be over a year old? Or are so in love with government that to see or hear about missteps offends your senses?
Abu graib is a great example of exactly why things like this video are important and how single individuals making the choice to let others know about wrongs can change the world. You seem like you would have been a great citizen in a totalitarian state. you are happy being blind. Quote:
Posted on: 2007/10/9 22:33
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Quote:
First this happened during winter in NY. I was driving on Canal St when I passed a police van on my driver side. The officers pulled me over and when Officer Sofachik came up he looked shocked and said "Were you wearing that seat belt before?" to which i replied yes (the belt had been partially hidden beneath my northface jacket). The officer gave no other reason for stopping me. He returned to his vehicle and returned with another officer who had been driving and evidently had more seniority. This officer stated that he saw me without a seatbelt even though he had been and would have been seated on the far sdie of the vehicle form me precluding any chance of seeing me on the right side of the van. At the point they made a mistake i would have been fine if they acknowledged that and let me go. But instead they wanted to cover their *ss and or fill their quota. Before even going to court, i filed a complaint with the Civilian review board. the report was followed up by a Detective. That immediately set off alarms. Why are the Civilian Review Board complaints investigated by the police. I never heard back from them again. Even though the detective fed me a line of platitudes about how egregious the situation was and how the judge should have no problem seeing the situation. I went to court and even took time to order procedural books through lexis. The judge in the case sided with the officers. Between losing one day of work and the expense of the books. I am not independently wealthy and cant afford to engage a lawyer over an $80 ticket.. much as i would have liked to. i am sure there are others out there who can attest to the same decision process. it seemed more practical to simply write the story up with the officers' names. Although the dollar amount is small i feel the malfeasance is great. The entire situation and others that occurred to myself or acquaintances have illustrated for me that trying to "play buy the rules" just tends to get you in a bureaucratic morass meant to waste your time while those with real power do what they will. NJ is one of the states in the union where we have no excuse for that. just about every city has referendum rules that effectively give citizens the right to create ballot initiatives. to me it is this path combined with hyper vigilance over those we trust with the destiny of our city. i am tired of being in a situation of having to beg for crumbs from the table. To me, our elections dont do enough: they just select who will be the next round of people to get the bribes. I do want to shake the hornets nest because if people are outraged enough perhaps they will get off their fat asses. As for there being more recent issues, perhaps but we don't have the google video, audio or other proof of that stuff now. Besides capone was taken down for tax evasion not murder and likewise it is often the Achilles heel that takes down the beast not the decapitating strike.
Posted on: 2007/10/9 21:41
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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they should. but i think the best strategy is copious video and audio recording of public situations at a safe distance. Government bureaucracy is one thing public outrage is another. Maybe a gallery here of the collected photos or vid of police/government overreach and abuse of power. Personally, i want police to feel like it is they who are constantly under scrutiny not the citizens for whom they work.
Posted on: 2007/10/9 16:13
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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there is no issue. when i saw the video s6kmedia and i communicated and i felt jclist would be one of the best ways to get this information out.
i have been actually looking into the comments from pink but have hardly had time to contact the press secretary. but honestly, press secretaries aren't where i generally go for truth (see the white house). i dont see anything saying the video is for sale so i dont know where that even came up as an issue.
Posted on: 2007/10/9 7:17
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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Am I misreading the system or did you yourself just register in September and have only posted under 20 posts (most in this thread)? i saw something with what to me is local relevance and wanted local people to read it. So i posted it hear. I am not a journalist. i hope that a real journalist would have his/her interest piqued by the video and would do the investigative work to get the full facts. to me there is plenty of information in the video to follow-up. if one knows about jc one knows that jclist is probably the most read site about jc.. so there is nothing mysterious: I want this to be investigated if only to verify that it is not some new incident, how it was handled, and how aware was the public made about the situation. This is not a story about britney spears or three headed babies. it is video of men who are either cops or impersonating cops drinking in from open containers in public with what looks like guns. I think that is a crime either way.
Posted on: 2007/10/9 2:06
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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also it doesnt take much skill to see that most of the people i have seen so far on here have their profiles hidden. and frankly, given the topic i am a bit concerned with police or even city blowback. A sad but practical commentary on free speech.
Posted on: 2007/10/9 1:45
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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Quote:
if what you say is this particular incident great. Was it covered in the popular press? i simply do not recall hearing about it or seeing it. And personally for actions like this, the individuals should have been castigated publicly. Because "innocent till proven guilty" aside, if these are police officers then likelihood that this was the first time they had done something like this is very unlikely ( with the exclusion perhaps of the one cop who was hesitant and seemed to decline) and speaks to a mindset and given that it was not a single officer an entire culture of the "gang in blue". I am explicitly going to say that i do not think all cops are guilty of this. but we all know how persuasive peer pressure can be and it can only be more so when people have one another's lives in their hands. but i have have personally been on the sharp end of police officers lying to back up one another on a bogus traffic stop under oath to a judge. So perhaps when they are caught with their hands in the cookie jar i think they should be held to an even higher standard.
Posted on: 2007/10/9 1:36
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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Quote:
i did not create this video nor did i say when this happened. if you read my opening i admit that i was not even absolutely sure it was video of real police. the site says clearly that it occurred in the early 2000s . i know that i have not heard about this incident getting the coverage it would seem to deserve in my opinion and neither did any of the people i know downtown including several who studiously follow the JC political scene and even the journalists whom i asked. you are the one who makes statements in absolute certainty. You are CERTAIN that this occurred under a previous administration. You are CERTAIN that the police officers were punished. You are CERTAIN that is was already covered in the Journal. You seem to have no room for the possibility that what you recall may have been a separate incident. Whereas i am asking questions. i would assume you either have some incredible memory or documentation. Until you can back up your statement your are just talking. It would seem that your logic would say that the Chicago prison torture scandal was a moot point because much of it occurred under people who are no longer in office or on the force now. And your vehemence makes me wonder if you work for the the administration or the police department.
Posted on: 2007/10/9 0:56
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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Quote:
I guess i question your suppositions about the facts. Also you still haven't addressed my questions. Why should people not be aware of this? What is your agenda? And if you think this was covered previously provide a periodical and issue . It's great to SAY it was covered and dealt with but i like to see proof or documentation. And I have been in JC since '92 so i am not some new resident to the area.
Posted on: 2007/10/9 0:21
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Re: Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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Quote:
Can you or others who say this is an old issue provide any documentation or reference on the coverage this incident had at the time? To me this is something people should have known about and i know i have never seen it in print or tv media. people have questioned my agenda for pointing out this clip. I question the agenda of those who would want to squash awareness of this incident. I would summarize my agenda as power to the people. As we move into a surveillance culture, i believe the large part of that surveillance should be done by the the people on our government. i also find the hypocrisy stunning given the number of times i see police pointlessly and perhaps unconstitutionally hassling the homeless and drunk. And meanwhile we are told that the police cant protect us so tax paying businesses are forced to curtail their business hours as a part of curfews on streets like communipaw where there is a police station right in the curfew zone. I somehow think that when the developers get their hands on the real-estate the curfews will be gone along with the long term residents.
Posted on: 2007/10/8 23:32
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Are Cops drinking on duty in JC? you have to see this video!!!
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Not too shy to talk
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i came across this video on a would-be underground news site. But for the life of me it looks authentic and it looks like bay st or maybe First st. Drunk Cops in JC?
These guys have uniforms and guns and are clearly hammered! the cameraman even caught a license plate.
Tell me what you think!
Posted on: 2007/10/5 21:07
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