Register now !    Login  
Main Menu
Who's Online
145 user(s) are online (131 user(s) are browsing Message Forum)

Members: 0
Guests: 145

more...


Forum Index


Board index » All Posts (dmn11)




Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#1
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Now that is funny danpulis, a message attacking people for not knowing the facts that then offers none. It amazes me how many like you seem to think bullying, insulting, and lying are going to get you what you want when you can't even articulate what it is.

My favorite shift in logic is how all of you LHSU people went from screaming that LHS wasn't allowing rescues to you were the ones who brought the rescues in once their absence was proven a lie. So they were coming in all that time AND you all arranged them BUT you never saw them? Seriously, do they teach basic debate and critical thinking skills in school anymore?

Posted on: 2010/9/7 19:53
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#2
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


LHSUncensored -

When you freely provide as much false and misleading information as you can, ignore questions that you can't answer, and run a site that has supported the most abusive bullying I have seen since grade school, why should I, or anyone for that matter, feel obliged to answer your questions? Doing so would imply that I assume the question to be based on fact when so much of what you have said, done and supported is not.

You cried "wolf" too many times.

Posted on: 2010/9/7 19:47
 Top 


Re: Homeless Man has Dog Taken Away
#3
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


How comforting to here our ACO say that it doesn't pay to care. Actually, isn't that exactly what you are paid to do?

A person who cannot be sure that they will be able to provide a meal for themselves should not have the responsibility of having to feed and care for another. What if the dog had become ill or injured? Caring for the animal was exactly the right thing to do. You did the right thing by taking it and LHS did the right thing adopting him out to someone who could take care of him. My only regret is in the politically charged environment that LHS finds itself in today means that they have to change that policy.

Posted on: 2010/9/7 4:55
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#4
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Diana,

Yes, but the HCDSPCA standards for adopt-ability were miles below the LHS standard. At HCDSPCA they poked dogs in a cage with a stick, and if the dog reacted aggressively it was not considered adoptable. No such thing is happening at LHS. You are comparing apples and oranges.

And I am sorry if "passionate" and "diligent" become "too long" when someone disagrees with you.

David

Posted on: 2010/9/4 13:40
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#5
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Diana -

I understand that you see my views as one-sided, but I do not. I have been aware going back for almost a year now of the problems at LHS and have fought to change them. The fact is that under the last administration MORE animals died of avoidable illness and disease in any same given period of time as animals have been euthanized since the new board took over, and nowhere near as many animals were adopted, fostered, or sent to reputable rescues in the same time period as under the new management.

I have been called a "moral relativist" for taking a position that saving some lives is better than saving no lives, and that would be true if the goal wasn't to save all lives - but it is. The last administration proved beyond a doubt that the cries from LHSU and PA that "the way you become no kill is to just stop killing" is untrue.

If one were to believe the things that these organizations have said then yes, what was happening at LHS would be inhuman - but I have seen with my own eyes that they are simply not true. No animals have been euthanized unless they were both vicious AND had no one capable of taking them. Even then, every effort was made. All of this has been done under a great challenge, namely that the previous administration severely damaged the shelter's relationships with advocacy groups and rescue groups and that trust had to be rebuilt all while keeping the shelter from being taken over by a government entity and turned into a pound. Attempts to portray the current administration as the bad guys are contradicted by the very fact that the out-of-state group most loudly making that claim became involved under the new administration's watch. If the previous shelter administration was No Kill, and PA is the No Kill leader it claims to be, where was it during the eight months that LHS was claiming no kill and becoming horribly overcrowded? They were nowhere because that administration did nothing to send out a call for help from rescues and sanctuaries, the NEW ONE did. The previous ED may have meant well (I for one am not convinced of that, but many people whose opinions I respect are), but she made an unholy mess and hid it from those who could best help with it.

Pets Alive is a sanctuary, it has no contracts that require it to take whatever comes to their door from a municipality and they don't. For all their talk of how easy it is, remember that they refused to take animals unless LHS, without having even met with them or seen that they could keep their word on anything, go no kill immediately. If LHS were really, as PA has claimed, "looking for excuses to kill dogs for space" then wouldn't they have then killed those aggressive dogs and blamed PA? What actually happened to all three dogs is that they went to 11th Hour over a week later. Yes, over a week. That is because NO animal is being euthanised unless it is necessary. The fact that the numbers were so high at the beginning were a testament to the number of violently vicious animals that the previous Administration had kept hidden, and the number that had become vicious from being put in containers way too small for them because the larger runs were being used to hide dangerous animals.

LHS is a shelter with municipal contracts. With the help of the interim Board, the new Board members are moving the shelter rapidly in the direction of being able to function as a municipal shelter while following no kill protocols. I know that PA has a lot of people hopped up that this is easy to do, but it is not. The reality is much more complex, and the actions that the current Board have taken is why LHS will not become another HCDSPCA. Without the actions that they have taken, starting from the moment the previous Board resigned until now, it already would be. Preventing that is the side that HAA took - the same side that it has always taken.

I really wish I could convince people of the degree to which some are out-and-out lying to them, and encouraging others towards violence, but it is clear to me now that the work HAA did to shut down the HCDSPCA has not earned it any trust with those who don't know us, or even with some who do. That people are so willing to believe a stranger from another state and staff and volunteers brought in by the very same people who made this mess over me simply because they label themselves "no kill" is beyond my control. Labels are just that, labels. The reality is the live release rate being accomplished at the shelter today is significantly better than the live release rate accomplished under the previous administration's supposed "No Kill" policies. THAT should be EVERYONE'S primary concern. If each of the people who showed up for the candlelight vigil yesterday had spent the last five weeks finding ONE expert in aggression towards humans to take ONE animal each, NO animals would have been euthanised due to aggression. I just would hope that none of them would turn to the out of state organization that has fomented so much of this, since I have the email they sent to an HAA Board Member WEEKS AGO that they would NOT take any Pit Bulls that were human aggressive.

To be perfectly clear, from the viewpoint of how many animals are surviving the shelter and being placed, LHS is more of a No Kill shelter now than it was when the previous administration ran things under the claim of being no kill. Just look at the numbers. You can get them from the city and from the shelter.

If you are concerned about the programs and procedures you have mentioned, I suggest taking a look on the LHS Website page that lists what animals have been sent where, then CALL those organizations, ask them what they think of the effort being put forth by LHS and how it compares to their experience dealing with LHS when it claimed to be no kill. Then ask yourself one more question - if LHS's current behavior is so egregious than why was an organization with a national pulpit not able to get one single rescue group in New Jersey to endorse their actions?

Two groups have come together to tell lies and viciously attack anyone who tries to calm things down, move things in the right direction, or just express a different opinion on the difficulty of the task - be it HAA, the new LHS Full Board Members, or anyone who dares to ask questions of them. Even without my number being published I have received threats and hate mail through my FB page and on the LHSU page. In that environment, anyone is going to appear to be "one sided" by those who accept these false portrayals.

The truth is much more complicated. Some of the people whom I have been accused of being "mouthpieces" for or "pimping" for I have had strong, often unpleasant arguments with over what LHS needs to do - arguements that so far, I am glad to say, have been resolved in the animal's favor. People need to stop blindly believing what they hear from LHSU, PA, or what was HAA for that matter. LHS has been good enough to publish the names of the rescues they have been working with. ASK THE RESCUE GROUPS. I think you will find that the truth, from those who are actually coming in from the outside to help do the work, is much better than what has been painted by LHSU and PA.

- David

Posted on: 2010/9/3 21:23
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#6
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Alan -

To my knowledge LHS is not engaging with LHS Uncensored or Pets Alive at all, other than a very early attempt to work with Pets Alive.

HAA no longer exists (watch now for the celebratory posts from these jackasses who have no idea what HAA even was). We are now working sometimes together and as individuals on our own animal advocacy projects. If you know how I can change my user name without losing my history please let me know. I do not want to create a new account that makes me appear as either a newbie or a sock puppet.

As for the terroristic question, you need to look at the history of stirring the pot, which is tricky since they have started deleting some of the most egregious "LHS Uncensored" posts. At one point an apparent sock puppet who had made no mention of the shelter was called a "murderer" by one of P.A.'s Co-Executive Directors, immediately after which the other Co-ED intimated (incorrectly) that it was me. My first and I had hoped only post to LHSU was to say it was not. In turn I got an FB message stating that they knew that but would continue to say so anyway. The FB page and the P.A. Blog have repeatedly called people I know and care for "murderers" and "sociopaths.", they have posted the same people's home phone numbers while commenting that they will "RIP". Children cannot answer the phone anymore because of what is screamed at them about their parents.

Intentionally or not, an atmosphere where an unbalanced person could easily believe that violence is called for has been created, with a National Organization by its own admittance distributing this info to 3.5 million people. Just yesterday they called out myself, my sister and our other ex Board member by name, knowing we had dissolved the organization, to say we could be "On the Bus or UNDER IT." I have received harassing "Friend Request" notes at my personal FB Wall and been called horrible things on the LHSU Page by people hiding behind fake names. And I am far from alone in this treatment.

When these people try to cross over onto JC List after making both veiled and direct threats against my friends and a family member you can be sure that I will respond strongly. It is important to people's safety that the horrific and false claims they are making in their own circle not spread wider than it has, as people are being directly threatened as a result. Ignoring them does not work. I did that for nearly two days when the national group posted the "under the bus" comment as a wall post calling us out, not as a comment on something someone else had said. These are not rational people.

Oh, and to Sledgehammers question it was a typo - one that I have made in a few places. Subconscious result of being a dog owner I suppose. I meant animals.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 23:09
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#7
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


stupidseven -

The agenda of PA and LHS Uncensored is precisely that. They believe a philosophy trumps reality in all circumstances. There standard answer to "how do you become no kill" is "simple. you stop killing animals." Well, it is not that simple. That is exactly what the previous administration did, but they did it without any shelter or foster outreach, zero fund-raising, no administrative plan, and no preparation of the space DESPITE having held a conference with several organizations, HAA included, that offered to provide precisely that help. That is why the current Board has referred to the problems at the shelter as the result of a "botched attempt at no kill." Despite LHSU's attempts to spin that as an attack on the No Kill philosophy it is clear to anyone with basic reading capabilities that it is no such thing. They did not claim that No Kill was a failure, they claimed, in very clear words, that the ATTEMPT was botched.

However, botched or not, the previous management refused to euthanize, so they are OK in LHSU's book, while the current admin does, so they are "pure evil" (from the PA website). That the number of animals dropping dead from treatable illnesses was exponentially higher than the current euthanasia rate, and that the cause of these illnesses was the direct result of instituting no kill without a plan is completely beside the point to these people.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 15:33
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#8
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


LHSUncensored -

If you want to stop playing "the blame game" perhaps you could begin with not making and allowing comments on your Facebook page that are, simply put, terroristic in nature. Your entire site is a laundry list of accusations with absolutely no evidence that takes down comments discussing how people can help but leaves up comments calling people "murderer" saying that other people will "RIP" and insisting that they are killing for space when they are not. You claim kill numbers that you know are not true (200 at one point - which was not even mathematically possible)and give free reign on your site to an outside organization that has never even been to the shelter or met the Board, yet has no problem publishing the home numbers of those involved. All while refusing to identify yourself even though you moderate the page.

Stop the blame game? You are the SOURCE of it.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 11:20
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#9
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


no steve I was insinuating no such thing. I assumed you took them with you. I was asking if you had arranged for someone to fill the gap in rescue here that you were leaving. you always were too quick to assume the worst of others and that others assumed the worst of you. Also love the way that you ask me to take over your relationship with a lawyer so we can get a shelter shut down without any of the dogs being harmed, we do it successfully, but because you didn't wind up with the keys to the place I am now her "mouthpiece" and "people shouldn't trust a word" out of my mouth. Way to stay classy buddy.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 3:28
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#10
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


luvinmyjc-

let me put it this way. If the person you are concerned withs name started with J, yes ALL of the bizarre number of employees whose names started with J, they are gone. All of them.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 1:21
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#11
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


webmaster - what happened to the rule on this thread that anyone who attacked an individual oor individuals by name had to identify themselves.

lhsuncensored -

It would be easier to take you seriously if your site didn't censor like crazy anyone who showed any support for LHS, supported a site that has published the home phone numbers of people who have been on the board mere days who have had their children answer the phone to physical threats, and made veiled threats to the safety of people's lives. Oh and the thread you deleted where people responded to my posting from Daily Kos by insulting my physical appearance? hilarious! I really enjoyed the cyber bullying that followed especially the note from John "I'm ready to bet really Joanna" Wolf saying "he" knew I wasn't the sock puppet Bill Bryant but was going to keep claiming it on your site anyway.

What is the average age on your site? 12? It would be funny if not for the fact that GOID PEOPLE WHO HAVE DEDICATED THEIR LIVES TO RESCUING ANIMALS ARE HAVING THEIR SAFETY AND FAMILIES THREATENED BASED ON LIES.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 1:14
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#12
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


luvinmyjc -

All the senior staff brought in by the previous ED are gone at this point, including the people I believe you may be speaking of, though I do find the affirmative action comment rather off-putting.

jgirl -

I agree, and I believe, knowing the new board members appointed last week, that this is where things are heading. Unfortunately the previous administration believed in No Kill in name only, and did none of the hard work required to make No Kill a reality. I think the fact that release rates are already up after just 5 weeks despite the disaster they inherited, along with the drastically increased outreach to rescues is a good beginning. I don't fail to see the irony that the whole reason the shelter is under assault from Pets Alive is because LHS reached out to them to take animals requiring an environment like theirs, something the previous "No Kill" regime failed to ever do. Jersey City has some unique challenges in becoming No Kill, including but not limited to some of the worst State Animal Control laws in the nation and an enormously high number of the misnamed "bully breeds" in the system. However that does not mean it cannot be achieved if the people who are screaming at each other would shut up and spend their energy contacting rescue groups or donating to the shelter instead of making up stories about a slaughter that is not happening and evaluation standards that exist only in their imaginations.

Posted on: 2010/9/1 0:49
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#13
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


alanwright says:

Quote:
In the interim, David Norman and others from the HAA have provided both useful information and "fodder" for critics... perhaps unintentionally enflaming their trollesque passions.


Fair point. It has always been my intent to inform people both about the claims being made and those making them. If in the process I have enflamed trollesque passions I apologize. I just re-read my posts throughout this thread and can see that I very well may have done so in some places.

Also, just for clarity's sake, all of the posts under HAA Member are me, and after doing a little digging in our own backyard I am confident that those are the only posts from an HAA member on this thread.

- David Norman

Posted on: 2010/8/31 14:45
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#14
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


As to Steve's concerns about Half of the animals being put down - perhaps he could be taken more seriously if he had a real source for those numbers instead of what he is hearing by rumor or as a result of his own bad math.

Again - if you start on Day 1 with 89 dogs and on day 20 you have 40 dogs, that does NOT mean 49 dogs have been killed, unless you assume no adoptions and no new animals in.

The reality is that LHS averages 2,5000 dogs in it's doors a year, or slightly more than 200/month. As I have stated before this is why live release rates are the accepted standard in Animal Control, not percentages that come from different samples.

I cannot speak to the entire time the new board has been in control, but for the 3 1/2 week period that I have figures for 60 dogs were sent to rescue groups, 20 dogs were sent to foster homes or adopted, and 25 were euthanised. That is a live release rate of 76%. That is ABOVE the national average and very close to the average among No Kill Shelters of 82%.

This is despite inheriting a shelter where the sick dogs and the healthy dogs were intermixed and several vicious dogs were being held secretly in the back out of view, forcing adoptable dogs up front into collapsible crates too small for them.

Yes, No Kill is an admirable goal. Yes, with a lot of work it is achievable. But for so many to look at what has happened at LHS in the five weeks since the people being attacked here saved it from becoming a POUND and to then rip them apart instead of offering help is hard to understand.

Steve - If I remember correctly at any one time you had 5 - 7 dogs in your in-home rescue. When you left Jersey City did you find someone to take that operation over for you, or did you just move on and are now attacking at a distance an organization that has seven less slots to put dogs into?

Posted on: 2010/8/30 21:47
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#15
Quite a regular
Quite a regular



Posted on: 2010/8/30 20:38
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#16
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Having discussed this with Matt at Pet's alive, and talked with others who have as well, I can come to the following conclusions:

1 - He is dishonest in his intentions. He states that he was willing to meet with the Board about becoming No Kill. What he in fact did was lay down an ultimatum to them, without having met them or done any investigation into the situation, that he would only meet with them if they first agreed to become No Kill, BEFORE hearing his plan on how to do it. He refused to submit a written plan, and he refused to take three dogs he had preciously said he would take unless all killing immediately stopped. This of course was without finding out what killing was actual;ly happening, choosing to believe the words of people he had never met or had any previous contact with.

2 - He is dishonest in his claims. He states in his letter that he has no intention of suing anyone, however he made it very clear in an email to me after I provided him with the names of the Board Members that he was looking for their home addresses as well because "not only am I going to sue the shelter but I am going to sue each and every one of them personally." Does that sound like someone who is not intent on suing.

3 - He is dishonest about his own business. In discussing the great success of Pets Alive in pulling off no kill he fails to mention that as of December of last year they were facing property foreclosure. He talks on his blog about the evils of what happens in secret, but has actively lobbied for a law in NY that would assure that organizations such as his remained EXEMPT from inspections.

4 - He is threatening in his demeanor. It comes through in all of his emails to individuals, it comes through in his comments on his blog about my post he never put up, that simply told him who the board was and asked that he learn more about the situation in New Jersey before he take actions that could result in the shelter becoming a pound. When I asked him why he had not posted it while he continued to say in his blog that the Board was a secret and suggested that Niki Dawson was a Board member when, in fact, he knows she is not - all information I had provided him with, he simply replied that he had "something special" in mind for me. On another site that I will not publicize here, he has posted statements that have resulted in people hinting at physical violence against shelter staff and has then remained silent on those comments. He has discovered and distributed the Board members home phone numbers. Remember, some of these people have been on the Board LESS THAN TEN DAYS and rather than reach out to them he is taking action that is threatening to them.

5 - He makes claims of his own abilities that are not true. He talks about the great success of Pets Alive without mentioning that what really has occurred is the Great success of the organizations that came in and rebuilt the whole system there from scratch in 2007 after the founder died and it was discovered that she had been hoarding animals - hundreds of them - in a secret room for years with no light and nowhere near enough food. It was described by the rescue groups who went in as "resembling Auschwitz." This was all done by the woman Matt calls his mentor and a saint, yet we are also to believe he had no idea this was happening under his nose.

To anyone who is serious about making LHS No Kill, and who has complaints about how it is being run, you should take them to the city and the press, but do so with your own facts and not rumors from others. If you have a plan on how the shelter can both go No Kill and pass state inspections so as not to be shut down you should present it to the board and present it to the press and the public so you know it will be listened to.

There are legitimate complaints to be made about how the shelter is being run, but for god's sakes STOP believing outrageous numbers just because people who believe as you do about No Kill state them. The fact that they believe as you do is not a guarantee of their honesty and integrity. I know many of them, and some while I may not agree with their approach to the current crisis I know to be people of integrity. Others I know to be people of no integrity whatsoever, willing to say anything if they think it will help their cause while giving no thought to the consequences if it does not.

Do your own research. Go down to the shelter and ask for a tour. If you have questions about policy or what you see ask them. If you have a plan, as I said before, present it. But for gods sake don't allow your belief in No Kill to be used by others more interested in their own self righteousness than anything else to spoon feed you falsehoods and make good people just trying to find a way to make things work feel threatened.

Posted on: 2010/8/30 20:27
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#17
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Greenville chick -

Because the number is not static. It is not like dogs stopped coming in between the two inspections. At one point 11 dogs came in at once. The numbers go up, then down, then up again. That is why "live release rates" rather than % euthanized is the standard measure of shelter performance. Live Release Rate is calculated as percentage of dogs who leave the shelter that leave alive. A flat euthanasia % does not account for population at the beginning or end of the year. Thus the two numbers - animals in and animals euthanized during the yearn- are not statistically related. They come from two different samples.

That said, it would be perfectly legitimate to ask LHS what their release rate has been since taking over the shelter, keeping in mind that the previous management having hidden vicious dogs in the back and thus forced large dogs into small pens in front is bound to have had some impact on the current rate.

Also, while I cannot give overall shelter numbers or speak for the lad few weeks, I can say that the HAA rescue outreach program has placed 60 dogs with rescues since it began roughly four weeks ago.

Posted on: 2010/8/28 23:13
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#18
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


and yet cat woman you were at that meeting, did speak, and made no mention of it. Interesting how your bravado of what you would do evaporates when it means being seen doing it, unless of course it is a news camera.

Posted on: 2010/8/28 22:54
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#19
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


If you have concerns about how the place is being run you would talk to City Health. I assume you would call them, not wait for them to come by, if it is that important. Melendez's number is posted in this thread several times. Robin Pinkowitz, who is a community liaison for his office, has posted on this thread a few times. You should be able to PM her.

Posted on: 2010/8/26 11:27
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#20
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


If anyone has any genuine concerns of animal abuse or unnecessary euthanasia at LHS they can always contact HAA. As anyone who worked with us on HCDSPCA will tell you, we retained the anonymity of everyone who came forward until they were ready to go public. Some were never ready to do so and remain anonymous to this day.

HAA's primary concern is always for the animals first and foremost. While we are currently helping LHS get back on its feet we are by no means one and the same. HAA takes every credible accusation of animal abuse seriously, but to be credible you have to at least be willing to identify yourself to us.

If you are not willing to do that then you should contact the Department of Health.

If you are not willing to do any of that it is hard to find your concerns credible.

In the end the HCDSPCA was stopped because people were willing to come forward when the physical threat was very real and very immediate. Given the evidence we currently have, I find it hard to imagine any such threat exists at LHS. Several volunteers and staff at the shelter have had public and private disagreements with the new Board about policy and treatment, including at last weeks Board meeting, and were still working at the shelter when I was there Sunday. Again, if you know differently please feel free to send me a private message via my JCList profile and I will gladly speak to you directly.

David Norman
President
Hudson Animal Advocates

Posted on: 2010/8/26 2:16
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#21
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


If by "stick to the issues" you mean make stuff up out of whole cloth that does not even come close to the easily verified reality of what is happening at LHS today, then congratulations - well done.

Posted on: 2010/8/25 22:08
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#22
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Joe -

Like I said before, I am not judging you, or the truth or fallacy of those charges. I am simply pointing out that you carry as much baggage as the people you have been questioning. And when you are the Director of a city function and you go online and attack those who help make that function happen without identifying yourself, that is hiding. Is Arnold Diaz lying, or is that not you, Joe Frank, being referred to as Director of Animal Control in the "Shame On You" videos in post #76?

Posted on: 2010/8/22 2:46
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#23
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Joe -

First of all, thank you for finally standing up and identifying yourself. I ask that everyone reading this thread, to go back through this thread, read what Koko wrote, and keep in mind that all of that time that was your Director of Animal Control hiding who he was as he called out people in his profession by name and questioned their ethics, myself included. If you read closely enough you will be able to figure out the second "colorful" name that is also him.

The law you cite above states the difference. A pound is defined as a place of confinement. A shelter is defined as a place for housing and distribution. A pound has no requirement to redistribute animals after the seven day hold is up, while a shelter, by the definition you just provided, does.

This is a dramatic difference. So you tell me how an organization in this city, in this economy, that has to hire LHS to fill in as ACO on weekends due to budget cuts, is going to run an animal shelter? How does an ACO who the state DHSS found dumped cats illegally in a local park as a matter of policy and who is still in litigation involving the last time he was in charge of the shelter over ten years ago going to run it now?

To be perfectly clear, I am neither expressing an opinion nor claiming to know your guilt or innocence in these things. However, you have made it clear that you believe that for the shelter to be successful it needs to shake off the clouds of its past. How is Jersey City Animal Control not one of those clouds, rightfully or wrongfully as the case may be?

In the meantime you might want to consider congratulating those who have been working at the shelter over the last few weeks - the staff and the volunteers. In the last few weeks since the change over they have placed 60 dogs in rescue, foster and/or adoption. Regardless of what you may think or feel about current management and policy, or where things should go in the future, these people have done a yeoman's job just by blocking out all the noise that we all make on threads like this one and doing their work in an environment free of the chaos that reigned for eight months. The shelter is clean, the unhealthy animals have been properly isolated from the healthy ones, new kennels of the proper size are coming into place with more on the way, and design for a long overdue expansion of dog housing is under way.

It is my sincere hope that now, with things returning to a semblance of normalcy, we can all put our bickering aside and work together to maintain the programs put in place that reordered the shelter and got so many animals placed. Perhaps we can all find the time and the money to give the shelter what it needs to be able to handle periods of higher-than-normal intake in the future. After all, it is by doing those things that a shelter can, over time, become no kill without fear of going bankrupt and being turned into a pound. It can't be done by a simple declaration and just throwing the doors open. I would hope that we have all learned that lesson from this.

- David

Posted on: 2010/8/21 3:16
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#24
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


loverboy writes:

Quote:
Are you people kidding? the interim board. is a past board. the past board has been failures and unsuccessful at their previous attempts likely because they are not capable of doing the job. none of them know how to run a business and have shown it by failing miserably. so when the people that are friends with the so called board post here that this is a new board maybe you should turn your teeth in backwards and bite your throat that way you do us a ll a favor. THE ONLY ONES THAT SUFFER ARE THE ANIMALS!! TELL LIBERTY HUMANE SOCIETY BOARD TO RESIGN AND GET A BOARD THAT CAN RUN IT THE WAY IT WAS SUPPOSE TO BE RUN.


And another anonymous person chimes in with either wrong or missing information.

Everyone on the interim board has been on A board in the past - they have never been THE board, and they have never all been on the board at the same time. Unless you are saying everyone who has ever been on any LHS board ever for 12 years has been a failure and the shelter somehow stayed open, grew and improved over time by magic perhaps you should try to learn a little about what you are talking about first.

If you did you would know that the only reason there is an interim board of ex-members is because it was the one thing in the LHS by-laws that could keep the shelter from officially being out of business when the Board mass resigned nearly a month ago. That if these ex-members had not stepped forward, the city would have legally been forced to take it over in which case it would be a "7 days and you're done" pound.

If you did, you would have by now read the statements to the press in which the Interim Board Members have repeatedly made it clear that they intend to be just that, interim, and to depart as soon as he shelter is on steady footing again.

If you did you would have by now read the inspection reports and realize that in the eight months the shelter was under a new board and management it essentially began to collapse, and to attack the people who were there when it passed inspections and didn't torture animals (again - read the reports) is inexplicable.

While you are at it, maybe you would bother to read the Jersey Journal article ON THIS THREAD to see that three new members who have NEVER been on an LHS Board before were appointed to permanent seats just this week.

Every time this thread seems to be getting sane "someone" has to jump in with lies and distortions to try to convince people that a nearly destroyed shelter that is being saved is actually a nearly-saved shelter that is being destroyed. The sad part is that you don't get that if people start to believe your BS the result would be a pound. Are you really so self-righteous that you are willing to risk ALL the animals lives to make a point? And if you are THAT self-righteous why don't you, like EVERYONE who has attacked the current board here with ONE exception, say who you are?

Or perhaps a pattern is forming on this thread of sock puppets who post for the first time, respond two or three times, are shown to be wrong, and then disappear just to have someone "new" with no previous posts appear the next day to repeat the exact same stuff while hoping that others won't go back and read the rest of the thread. At least have the courage of your convictions, as misguided as they may be.

Posted on: 2010/8/20 19:46
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#25
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


FYI - I have added the 2008 Financials and Audit for LHS to http://thetruthmachine.net/?page_id=181

I want to thank LHS for getting the data that was not yet available on guidestar to me so quickly.

Posted on: 2010/8/19 19:07
 Top 


Re: Jersey City residents register now for emergency alerts
#26
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Will we receive City Government arrest and conviction updates?

Posted on: 2010/8/19 18:51
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#27
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


We have been working with the shelter advising them as they consistently worked on improvements, but they started from a point where these problems did not exist. As a responsible organization with a responsible Board LHS was continuously making improvements. We met with them regularly to check out the condition of the shelter, and continuously found a shelter in good condition and getting better. The shelter is inspected several times a year. JC Animal Control is in there every day.

As I have mentioned earlier, starting with a meeting held with the just fired ED we and many other organizations were essentially locked out. The inspectors weren't, and failed them twice. The shelter I saw on my last visit there, shortly after Joanna became ED, and the shelter at the time the Board resigned were two different places. We found out what it had become in our absence only a week before then and immediately started action.

HAA is three people. We work on things as we become aware of them by making ourselves publicly available for animal advocates in the area to reach out to for support. We do the best we can when we can. Do I wish I had known about this earlier? Obviously. Should I have been more vigilant? Perhaps. Instead I trusted people who volunteered at LHS who had helped us with the HCDSPCA when they had been there. It never occurred to me that the same crap could happen and they would say nothing to me.

Have I learned from this and hope to do things better in the future? Absolutely, yet the fact remains that the ultimate responsibility lies with those who perpetrated this. As a community of animal advocates there are certainly ways in which we have all failed, which is why I said at the very beginning of this to remember that everyone involved is human and that many no doubt acted with good intentions.

None the less things now are what they are, and I am trying to help fix them and hold people accountable for their behavior. If you feel there is behavior I need to be held accountable for, that is certainly your right and you may be correct, but perhaps you should aim some of your anger at those who let this happen in front of their own eyes while lying to those who would have gladly helped if they had known. There are those of us who perhaps should have known more, but more importantly there are those who not only knew about all of it, but actually made it happen. You can recognize them pretty easily. They are the ones screaming about an impending slaughter that exists nowhere but in their imagination. The saddest part is that they have probably convinced themselves it is true. After all, how else can they justify so many deaths by fully avoidable "natural causes" and the tortured existence of other animals as being "better" than things are with them gone?

They have three choices in front of them. They can accept that their time is done, something that the ex-ED and ex Board Members, to their credit, appears to be doing. They can acknowledge that a good intent went horribly awry and try to make up for it, as many volunteers and staff are doing. The final choice is to attack everyone who is trying, in ways big and small, to help make things better - to lie about individuals pasts and about what is happening now.

I suppose those who have made that final choice are trying to convince themselves that things did not go as far out of control as they did. Maybe they simply really have no clue that while meaning well they have done something horrid, and honestly believe that the horrid people are those who dare question their actions. Fortunately there are very few who fall into the last category. I would guess - and yes it is a guess - six or seven such people out of the scores of people involved as staff, volunteers, and animal control with LHS. Unfortunately those six or seven people speak very loudly, hide their identities, and have no shame.

Posted on: 2010/8/19 1:56
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#28
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


And more lies from people who don't identify themselves. HAA became aware of the overcrowding at the shelter one week before the Board resigned, and launched our rescue effort the very next day, as explained in earlier posts. Among those who was communicated with on that first day was a representative from the City Health Department. So yes, we were in contact with the authorities as soon as we knew anything about it. I won't bother to repeat everything I laid out earlier about the previous management making sure that no one knew there was a crowding problem until the last minute, but that is what happened. What is most frightening is that the people on this thread who were there every day and DID know about it are the ones screaming now about lives being lost. So sledgehammer, I ask you, what evidence do you have that animals are "dying needlessly" now? Have you talked to anyone who has been there for the evaluations? Have you reached out to the ASPCA or St Huberts to ask what they have observed? Did you notice that when the person who made the original outlandish claims about how animals were being evaluated was called on it by someone who was there and asked to identify someone who was doing these horrible things so they could be held accountable she disappeared and started selling the same lies on Craigslist instead?

So yes, by all means, keep taking shots at the messenger. That really helps.

Posted on: 2010/8/18 23:25
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#29
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


I am HAAMember - Note the tag is not HAABoard, it is HAAMember. All the posts on here are from me, it is my tag. I would tend to think you know that, since you just identified me by name.

Explain how "muzzle the HAA posters who do as much to confuse and instigate as they do to clarify and explain" is to be taken other than how I took it. Then maybe try to answer some of the questions I posed to you.

And what reason other than personal convenience do you have for not separating my comments from HAA or, more importantly LHS? I just reread the entire chain this morning and I can't see anywhere that LHS itself has chimed in. Some volunteers yes, but not a single employee (at least that has identified themselves) and not one board member. One person that had commented has since become a Board Member, but has also stopped commenting.

I am sorry if you find my responses to CatWoman, JCNewJersey, or LHS_Volunteer to be rude or inflammatory, but I have watched for years as these people have told blatant lie after blatant lie without identifying themselves and without being called on it. Just today LHS_Volunteer decided to take her false post about 32 dogs scheduled for euthanasia on Friday that lost traction here and republish it on craigslist.

If I seem angry that so many people seem ready to attack the people who are currently at LHS, who inherited a mess that their attackers made and are now trying to clean it up, it is because I am - and I do not apologize for that. If I go ballistic as people post about mythical methods of evaluation even as ASPCA and St Huberts are there assuring best practices are being followed it is because one should go ballistic when people behave so badly.

People, for better or for worse, get a great deal of local news from sights like this one, not from newspapers or television. For each of us writing on here there are countless people reading this, so I am not going to hold back on the truth to be more politic. I am not running for office, nor will I ever. I am trying to make sure that people who read this know when others are misleading them. If telling the truth "confuses" that is because some people don't know who to believe. That is why I always encourage people to find out for themselves - read the inspection reports, look at the financials, OPRA the intake records. If you can, post them.

I admire CatsAndDogs for posting the documents she did, I just don't respect the misrepresentation in her description of them. That said, there are some disturbing numbers in them that I will crunch this evening. No matter who is in charge and what the official policy turns out to be, enough people here have expressed concern about euthanasia rates at LHS that you can be sure I and HAA will be keeping an eye on them and will speak up. We may be working to help save LHS, because we believe it is worth saving, but we do not work for LHS and we will hold them to the same standards as we would anyone else. In fact if you read what the state has written about conditions at the shelter under the just departed administration and compare it to our past work you will see that is exactly what we are doing in objecting to those who try to defend what the shelter became under the previous administration and previous board. Rest assured, if conditions like that continue or return I and HAA will be vocal about it, regardless of who is or isn't on the Board or working there.

As to my words "instigating", I do not know what to say to that. Instigate what? Instigate people to not become involved? The current volunteer numbers and the hours they are putting in do not, I believe, back that up. Instigate others to find out for themselves? Good. Instigate those who I accuse of lying to strike back, and call me things like a joke, in turn leading to my contributing to the general downturn in civil tone? For that I truly am sorry, but when they respond to as simple a thing as a heavily researched document meant to dispel rumors by telling lies about who I am, what I've known, when I've known it, and what I've done, calling me out by name - all while hiding who they are then I am going to respond with verifiable truths.

Can my tone be confrontational? Yes - I know that it can be, that at times I fail to choose my words carefully. I both admit and apologize for that. However, there are also people who do need to be confronted - who when they are blatantly lying need to be called blatant liars, who when they make claims that are clearly ridiculous have to be called just that. For that I do not apologize.

Posted on: 2010/8/18 20:41
 Top 


Re: The Entire Board of Liberty Humane Society Just Resigned...
#30
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


From the footnotes of the documents:

Quote:
* Facilities may contract with municipalities in more than one county; therefore, individual county statistics indicated on this report may include more than one county. Note: This is a voluntary survey of impoundment facilities and may not include responses from all such facilities in New Jersey.


Associated has contracts in Hudson County. Even the state is saying in the foot notes that these are not 100% reliable numbers.

It is not a matter of always thinking I am right. People are certainly entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. When I state something as a fact it is because I actually bother to do my research, including reading the footnotes of the documents I present.

Posted on: 2010/8/18 20:18
 Top 



TopTop
(1) 2 3 »






Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!



LicenseInformation | AboutUs | PrivacyPolicy | Faq | Contact


JERSEY CITY LIST - News & Reviews - Jersey City, NJ - Copyright 2004 - 2017