injcsince81 wrote:
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GeorgeWBush wrote:

So why the vitriol?

GWB

Simple.

It is amusing to hear Sal opine on the prevention of HIV epidemic, considering that he thinks only "white folk" is offended by a theory that HIV was unleashed on the black population by the US Government.

Since that statement by Sal on jclist, it has turned out that at least one member of the "black folk", Barack Obama, is also offended by that notion.

Sal is a crude race-baiter, hence the vitriol.

GeorgeWBush wrote:
1) Both of you agree there are problems with this guy delivering the message.

2) Both of you agree that it is an important issue that should be addressed.

3) You disagree if the negativity of the messenger outweighs the importance of the message.

So why the vitriol?

GWB

injcsince81 wrote:
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SalOnTheHill wrote:
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injcsince81 wrote:
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itsaurora wrote:
How is it that having Jim Jones speak on one topic legitimizes his views on others? Just because he may not have socially acceptable opinions on certain topics doesn't mean that he can't and shouldn't promote messages that are positive and socially acceptable. Homophobia and violence are everywhere in hip hop - unfortunately it's the way it is, but it's not just Jim Jones.

The fact of the matter is kids like rap. They listen to rappers and public figures, so why not have a positive message coming from someone they're actually excited to see and hear from? Makes sense to me.

I don't know how to reply to this.

Would you send your kids to listen to OJ Simpson talk about anger management?

Geeeeez.

Please enlighten us, injc, as to how you connect those same dots between OJ and anger, that you do between Jones and HIV/AIDS. Thanks.

Both have about the same credibility talking about the respective subjects.

injcsince81 wrote:
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itsaurora wrote:
How is it that having Jim Jones speak on one topic legitimizes his views on others? Just because he may not have socially acceptable opinions on certain topics doesn't mean that he can't and shouldn't promote messages that are positive and socially acceptable. Homophobia and violence are everywhere in hip hop - unfortunately it's the way it is, but it's not just Jim Jones.

The fact of the matter is kids like rap. They listen to rappers and public figures, so why not have a positive message coming from someone they're actually excited to see and hear from? Makes sense to me.

I don't know how to reply to this.

Would you send your kids to listen to OJ Simpson talk about anger management?

Geeeeez.

jmolder wrote:
I never had a prob at Taqueria, they are super friendly and the environment is always pleasant. The place lacks attitude and serves really simple food. It is not for the snobbish or people that need to be the center of attention. Its a total positive place so if you walk in with negativity the positive forces will kick your butt out.

injcsince81 wrote:
In your voluminous response you totally ignored my point that having a rapper with a history of of homophobia and violence present an anti-HIV message to kids may do more harm than good because of the legitimization of the above in the eyes of the audience.

Nice job dodging the main point and instead exploring the meaning of "optimal" and "no parents", and feigning outrage.

Your juxtaposition of "Dr. Cosby" and "crude" is breathtaking, but your fine rhetoric notwithstanding, you're missing the main point nonetheless.

injcsince81 wrote:
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SalOnTheHill wrote:
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injcsince81 wrote:
Yep - Bill Cosby was absolutely murdered by people like you for exactly the same sentiment some time ago.

What a racist.

Gee, that was far easier than actually responding to the points I made, now wasn't it?

That's because I actually agreed with most of your reasoning regarding the difficulty in bringing in athletes to talk about HIV.

However, I am still not convinced that having a gangsta rapper deliver the message is an optimal solution. The problem lies in the fact that a good message by the rapper legitimizes his homophobic and violent lyrics in the minds of the kids.

Even if I buy your argument that it's next to impossible to get a known athlete to talk to kids about HIV, I'm pretty sure there are regular people with HIV who could talk very convincingly and capture the kids' attention.

What I totally did not agree with is that my "parents" comment was arrogant and bigoted, and to that I responded with a relevant analogy.

Fact is, whether you want to call it bigoted or not, that active parents are sorely lacking in working class/poor African American communities.

The statistics are devastating - something like 80% single parent households in some places.

The results of that are equally devastating - HIV/AIDS being one of them.

You say having a rapper deliver the anti-HIV message is OK; I say there are probably many other choices of the messenger which are better.

GeorgeWBush wrote:
Not disputing it's a serious issue. I guess what torques me the most is that it is so hard to reach these kids (or so it seems) that this is the best that can be done.

Re: the lyrics- I was tempted to go YouTube it, but the last time I did that to check out a band that I thought was ridiculous I ended up buying an album.


GWB

GeorgeWBush wrote:
Thanks Sal- And believe me I have almost no idea who this guy is. I half thought someone was coming to give the kids kool aid of a different sort.

Remember that interview on 60 Minutes? Guy's name was Cam'ron. All about "Stop Snitchin'". He's a member of the same group as this Jim Jones character- The Diplomats. They also sort of made the whole stop snitching thing part of their logo.

LOL just read some of his lyrics. Hysterical as an adult, probably exciting as a kid. "P-89"... Doesn't he know 9mm are so 1990?

http://www.elyrics.net/read/j/jim-jon ... ified-gangsta-lyrics.html

You get the idea. Not a great example. No idea what Healy is thinking. Why would he honor the guy?

GWB

GeorgeWBush wrote:
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SalOnTheHill wrote:
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injcsince81 wrote:
I'd try to invite a local pro sports figure (Knicks, Nets, Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets, etc, etc).

That's not how things work. You don't call a random sports figure and tell them here's the issue you're looking for them to speak on behalf of, and hand them a canned speech. Certainly when the issue is HIV/AIDS and there is still a significant amount of stigma and ignorance when it comes to how willing people are to speak out about it. Good luck getting those phone calls returned.

People have causes they feel passionately about, and those are the people who make the rounds doing outreach and trying to break through to kids (and adults).

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Heck, I'd try to contact Magic Johnson (he has a dog in this fight) - although that's a long shot.

Obviously Magic Johnson is the face of this issue to a lot of people (particularly of a certain generation), but I would question whether even he would have the impact on a group of kids the way a current hip-hop performer would. You're showing your age, and missing the point that events like these aren't about who *you* would like to see come to a JC public school, or who would move *you* into thinking differently about HIV/AIDS. I'd put Magic way closer to C. Everett Coop on the spectrum than I would to Jim Jones.

You can piss and moan about how evil hip-hop is and how kids should be shielded from it or at least not encouraged towards the messages a large part of hip-hop music deals with. Or you can actually open your eyes and accept the reality that it not going anywhere, and can be a tool by which good can be achieved.

I'm no fan of the misogynistic, materialistic, violent messages in a lot of hip-hop music, but I recognize it's out there, and people within the community actually interested in doing good should be encouraged, not shot down. Whether you get on it or not, that ship has sailed, so best make good use of it.

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HIV/AIDS awareness is certainly a great cause and there is a chance one of the athletes might agree to talk to the kids.

And in the time spent to try and secure, educate, and woo those athletes that pass your test but that don't feel passionately about the issue at hand, people who are already speaking out and doing that work should be overlooked? Exactly what imaginary resources are you basing your perfect-world hypotheses on?

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Regarding my comment about not having parents - there is a difference between being conceived and born and actually *having parents*, Einstein.

Absentee parents don't count for the purpose of my statement.

But your bigoted and arrogant assumption that "they [these kids]" all (or even predominately) don't "ha[ve] parents" or that inner city public school educated children automatically have "absentee parents" certainly does count for the purpose of your statement.

Sal, you're off base. I appreciate the goal, but the ends don't justify the means in this case. You were 16 once. Can't you fathom that by inviting a violence-promoting (worse than violence promoting- violence promoting in the interests of denying victims justice) public figure to speak as an "authority "on anything legitimizes them, and not soley (or even mostly) in regards to the topic they're addressing?

Listen- Lots of people in Queens thought John Gotti was a great guy. His kid got killed by a guy backing out of his driveway. Would it be appropriate, out of ALL the speakers available, to have John Gotti come to a school in Queens to tell kids to be careful when they're driving?

Wouldn't it be in some way adding some sort of credit or creedance to Gotti & the way he lived his life, the things he stood for?

The simple fact that this guy is invited to speak elevates him. He's an authority. He will be speaking from authority, and those kids will listen. They'll look up to him. Probably already do. They'll see Healy & Cunningham give him his "Proclimation", and they'll say to themselves, JUST AS YOU OR I WOULD at age 14-17, "They say that we should talk to the police when we see a crime, but there's Mayor Healy & Ms. Cunningham up there kissin' the tail of King Stop Snitchin'. Guess it isn't such a big deal after all".

The fact that kids in Ozone Park looked up to Gotti is a problem. They're kids. Adults shouldn't reinforce their childish, immature error simply because they've run out of good ideas and don't know how to relate to the students.

The ultimate irony here is this guy is shoving sh*t down these kids throats that ultimately is going to bring them nothing but heartache and grief. And because of his success in doing so, individuals with their OWN message to deliver make a deal to have him do it. Since he's been such a sucess delivering poison, let's use him to deliver a little dose of medicine along with it...It's easier than finding another delivery system, right?

What a cop out.

Here's a question- How does the JCPD feel about this guy getting honored? Maybe Healy & Co aren't aware of exactly what this guy promotes.

(For the record, obviously Gotti's crimes are worse than this dudes- It's called hyperbole, cut me some slack, I'm tired)


GWB

injcsince81 wrote:
Yep - Bill Cosby was absolutely murdered by people like you for exactly the same sentiment some time ago.

What a racist.

injcsince81 wrote:
I'd try to invite a local pro sports figure (Knicks, Nets, Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets, etc, etc).

Heck, I'd try to contact Magic Johnson (he has a dog in this fight) - although that's a long shot.

HIV/AIDS awareness is certainly a great cause and there is a chance one of the athletes might agree to talk to the kids.

Regarding my comment about not having parents - there is a difference between being conceived and born and actually *having parents*, Einstein.

Absentee parents don't count for the purpose of my statement.

injcsince81 wrote:
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SalOnTheHill wrote:
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greenville wrote:
Wow great way to mentor the kids by bringing a gangsta rapper. Our policitans are so smart!!!

Yeah, god forbid kids hear an important, life-or-death message from somebody they might actually pay attention to.

They'd listen to their parents, if they, uhm, had parents.

Lacking that, I'd think there are a few public figures in the spectrum between C. Everett Coop and a gangsta rapper they'd pay some attention to.

Dontcha think?

greenville wrote:
Wow great way to mentor the kids by bringing a gangsta rapper. Our policitans are so smart!!!

gungirl_newyork wrote:
To NewHeights:

No, you are not being heartless at all. Not one bit. I prefer an honest answer.

To asnky & To dmark526:
I'm already looking at other places on Craigslist. I think it's better for me to move on at this point.

Thank you for your inputs.

emergent wrote:
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SalOnTheHill wrote:

No chance? Really?

Yes, NO chance:

http://www.ehow.com/how_2064612_get-p ... rry-concealed-weapon.html

"Be a retired New Jersey police officer or federal officer to be entitled to an unrestricted CCW permit. You may also be an armored car worker. These are not statutory requirements, but a CCW permit is almost never issued to anyone else in New Jersey.The basis for issuing a permit is almost completely discretionary and you must demonstrate an urgent need for self-protection."

Jeebus wrote:
So at the end of this law abiding citizens in JC still are denied their right to effective self defense? I couldn't determine if Dave or someone pretending to be Dave was real.

It does not matter as NJ, unlike most states in our nation, is a crime enabling state. Just to spell this out, law abiding citizens who could pass any background check, have no chance of legally carrying a firearm in self defense in NJ. So only criminals carry guns. QED.

wibbit wrote:
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DragonXJC wrote:
I think Jersey City needs gun stores. Because criminals don't buy guns at gun stores. They don't have permits, they have "connects". The criminals are armed.......and the civilians are not?

not this again. You are right, criminals do not buy their guns legally from the gun stores, they buy it from the black market. But where do you think those guns that are circulating on the black market came from?

If retail sales and home ownership of firearms are banned, that means weapons will be tightly controlled and much more difficult to obtain on the black market over time. Because the price to buy them will be much higher. This means some 15 year old kid wont just be able to lay down 200 bucks and buy a semi auto to wave around. Simple supply and demand at work.

This has been proven time and time again, just look at any country that has a strict gun country law, and see how many gun related crimes they have ratio wise to their population compared to the US.

The problem is the pro side is not willing to look ahead and give up their gun ownership for a safer country 5-10 years down the road.

jclxz wrote:
I don't know if the guy posting as Dave the crazy gun store guy is really him. It sounds pretty consistent with him, but I can't say. He seems more intelligent when you walk into his store than this poster - he should be aware that what he puts in writing will be scrutinized by the community and survive forever. But someone pretending to be him to discredit him I think would do a little more severe a job of it.

The victim of an attack as he was, he was well within his right to use deadly force. This human right is even the law in most states, although New Jersey doesn't very well protect your right to defend yourself. The tiny risk to the innocent of firing into the air compared to the tiny risk to the innocent of firing at someone (and missing) isn't a big enough difference to be of concern to me. Not killing his attackers when he had the legal and moral right to is an act of generosity.

He may have incited the attack (it was not a fight - it was an attack) with racist comments. We'll never know. He may have even been the victim of racist comments and responded in kind. Of course the right to assault people in response to racist statements seems to be a one-way concept. An interesting system we have.

What concerns me about Dave is how carelessly I saw him handling BB guns, at a time when he had both BB guns and real guns in his store. He carelessly had a BB gun pointed at me when dropping the clip to show that it stores both the CO2 and the BBs. Now I knew two things - it can't possibly fire, and if it did I would not likely be injured. So I didn't get upset like I would if it was a real gun.

But I felt it a violation of proper gun handling nonetheless. And when handling BB guns and real guns all day, they should be treated with equal respect, because they look quite similar. It's not about the fact that you can do it right this time, it's about maintaining certain standards of care so that a certain class of mistake can't happen.

david411 wrote:
Salonthe hill
Thanks
God Bless you.
David

david411 wrote:
Police at the 7th st precinct perjured themselves in front of a Grand Jury, getting the misguided grand Jury to illegally indict Mr Murray on phony gun charges. Superior Court Judge Fred Theemling dropped 3 gun charges from Murray. Murrays Lawyer, Peter Willis will get the last 3 bogus charges dropped. The assailants who attaced Mr Murray 1 year ago, will face aggravateds assault charges in Superior Court soon. The FBI ,and U.S. Attornety Chris Christie, will investigate corrupt Prosecutor Ed Defazio, and his assistant, Leo Hurley, for their perjury and corruption, and see how deep in the city government the 08 corruption goes. Possible 08 election corruption, to close a gunstore to "please" the far left, anti gun Officials, which would send Defazio and Hurley to jail, along wi th the assailants who assaulted Mr Murray. In the next few months, the FBI and U.S. Attorney will be all over the Prosecutors office, and the 7th st Precinct to see the depth of the corruption. No one knows how deep it goes, but remember the Duke Rape case. This case makes the Duke case look like a picnic.

NewHeights wrote:

1. If 2 men approached him and one of them swung at him he does have the right to use deadly force (just as a police officer would also have the right). It doesnt matter if he instigated by blowing his horn etc.

brewster wrote:
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harborside2 wrote:
Although the church is beautiful, unique, etc. etc., what should be done with it? Just to restore it to it's former glory and use it as some kind of museum is not often feasible. This is often an issue in cities where these beautiful old buildings are common.

It needs a use to fund it's continued existence, or it's just a drain on some ngo's funding. So is it a problem remodeling it into something else? Does it have to be a church - an empty church?

I used to work for a Fortune 500 company and I was included in a group that decided what nonprofit requests got funding. This kind of restoration without reuse means a forever commitment of funding from somebody.

So what could it be used for? And is remodeling into something else so bad?

They should take a lesson from St John the Divine in Morningside heights on how to become relevant to a changing urban population. St John has done everything from concerts and movies to craftsmanship training for youths as part of their construction program.

It looks like a great place to see a gothic horror movie!

Yvonne wrote:
It is a sacred place. It should not be changed into a secular building. The Archdiocese should donate the builing to another doicese that needs a church. It should be dismantled and reassembled. It is too beautiful and sacred to be anything else.
Yvonne

Anonymous wrote:

You are entitled to your opinion, however you are morally and socially lacking for "bashing" someone based solely on their economic status. The dollar figure on someones pay check should have absolutely nothing to do with why you "bash" them...if someone practices illegal activities or shows incredibly poor morals...fine, bash them, but what you are doing is nothing more than ignorant.

petey8 wrote:
Mr Smith--posters like Sal have virtually chased me off this site with their constant negativity and criticism. I still pop in from time to time to get information about new restaurants and other news, but I rarely sign in or post any longer. Not sure if that is his goal, to brow-beat and argue every person, and each tiny point into some kind of submission, but I found it does not really add any value to my life to get involved. Not that I didn't get into it now and again when I disagreed with someone, but I just didn't feel I needed to challenge or be challenge constantly by such an intellectual juggernaut.
Good luck with ROM--I have read your posts on this thread and feel sympathy for all the crap everyone seems to be going through in these condos.

mr_smith wrote:
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SalOnTheHill wrote:
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mr_smith wrote:
To SalOntheHill:

What I meant to write was neighborhood watch, not just neighborhood.

And I am not complaining that someone was selling crack in the park, it was just an FYI to everyone in the area who might bring their kids to the playground. The reason I did not call the cops is because by the time they got down there the guy (who was already walking away) would have been long gone and why waste their time?

On another note: I love the sardonic and sanctimonious tone you took with me... another intenet tough guy.

-Chris Smith

Right, because lifting a finger and giving a description would have been so difficult, and you're really the most qualified person to determine what's a waste of police time? Fact is that Lincoln Park is a County Park, under almost constant patrol by County Sheriffs, to whom a call would have been quickly routed.

Do "everyone in the area" a favor: save your FYIs, and report drug dealing at playgrounds when you see it, hot shot.

I spend a lot of time in Lincoln Park and this is the only time I have ever seen something like this.

It is easy to say to call the cops but unfortunately I did not have my cell phone on me or I would have, but by the time I got home it was about an hour or more later. I did follow the guy for a bit but did not see any cops in the park or I would have just walked over and told them what I saw.

I did actually consider saying something to the "dealer" myself but my judgement got the better of me, I would rather not provoke a confrontation unless it endangers my family or myself.

And the reason I posted the FYI was so that people could keep an eye out for that sort of thing. But following your logic if I can not call myself I should just pretend I did not see anything?

Maybe instead of jumping to hasty conclusions you should keep your mouth shut or ask more questions, it might help you clarify your understanding of situations, hotshot.

brian_em wrote:
I'm listening to Obama talking in NC.... "We don't want a 3d term of George Bush..."

What a pathetic comment. John McCain and the Bush family have NEVER gotten along... I hate how he is trying to trick people 's hatred towards Bush onto someone who has very little in common with GB....WEAK