dtjcview wrote:
@ Pebble - you can't argue with xenophobes, isolationists, and frankly sociopaths that seem comfortable exploiting other nations while keeping the issues US policy has created at arms length.

The US buys the products of cheap overseas labor including child slavery. The US buys a HUGE amount of drugs from Central and South America, fueling problems in those countries. The kids fleeing those countries are simply fleeing the problems that the US has directly helped create. The US needs to man up. Help own the problems and at the very least own the consequences.

We're acting like an empire, and seem to have forgotten the reasons we helped tear down those European empires over the past few centuries.

dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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When the US had the "good old days" of the late 50s and 60s, China had mass famine. So when you look at China today, understand that they only recently became a modern nation. That change was driven by concrete steps to curb reproduction and instill personal responsibility. The results are phenomenal.
...

More comedy gold. China's economic prosperity was built on a mountain of used condoms? Lmao. And there was I thinking it wasn't the policies of Chairman Mao, but the rejection of his cultural revolution and unleashing the capitalistic instincts of a population of 1.3 billion people.

Anything that passing out condoms doesn't solve?

- Economic growth and prosperity - condoms
- Crime rate - condoms
- World hunger - condoms
- Aids crisis - condoms

Think you need to work on cause and effect a bit, and stop thinking with other peoples penises.

Global shortages of latex.

...and brain tissue in lawyers.

Pebble wrote:
I always find it amusing when people post on China and clearly have no concept of what the land there is like. Despite their single child policy, guess what you'll find in the poverty areas outside of the city... parents having more and more children!

The reality isn't about black or white or hispanic or values... it's a problem of poverty. Statistics after statistics prove out that a rise out of poverty reduces the birth rate in families. Heck, the movie Idiocracy was based on this concept alone.

I'm also confused about the concept of good role models. How many people loved Roger Clemens or Barry Bonds? You don't need trend setters, you need education.

Yes, there is a certain amount of personal responsibility involved. There is a certain amount involved with everyone but how does that get taught? You weren?t born and subsequently sent searching for food and nourishment. The knowledge you have now is knowledge you gained from those around you.

Uneducated and poor parents do not make good decisions. They don?t understand what a good and healthy diet is and how it helps enable brain development. They also don?t understand how to explain to their child the path from where they are presently to being able to afford a brownstone downtown.

A lot of these individuals don?t see how it is obtainable because they believe, partly rightly, that many of those people in the wonderful high rise towers were born into it. I?m not saying everyone inherited their wealth. I?m stating that they were able to start with a more stable footing.

Regardless, the ?reporter? decided to opinionate something absurd while presenting a news story. Instead of viewing the problem for what it is, a poverty issue, he tried to make it a race issue.

I think there also needs to be an understanding that the world does not exist in a vacuum. There are a lot of causations involved that go back in time to periods of American and international history which we aren?t very comfortable with. It can?t be changed, but it should at least be acknowledged when topics involving race and disproportionate poverty levels are mentioned.

dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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When the US had the "good old days" of the late 50s and 60s, China had mass famine. So when you look at China today, understand that they only recently became a modern nation. That change was driven by concrete steps to curb reproduction and instill personal responsibility. The results are phenomenal.
...

More comedy gold. China's economic prosperity was built on a mountain of used condoms? Lmao. And there was I thinking it wasn't the policies of Chairman Mao, but the rejection of his cultural revolution and unleashing the capitalistic instincts of a population of 1.3 billion people.

Anything that passing out condoms doesn't solve?

- Economic growth and prosperity - condoms
- Crime rate - condoms
- World hunger - condoms
- Aids crisis - condoms

Think you need to work on cause and effect a bit, and stop thinking with other peoples penises.

VanVorster wrote:
Elitist perhaps and most likely racist or at least you definitely know how to come off like one given your posts. Perhaps it's your communication style, watching lots of Fox or just not knowing how to use your words. Oh and that's cute, merely mentioning sexism or racism is inherently anti-male and anti-white, respectively, which means don't raise it.

This is worth viewing for those interested.

http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-medi ... tem-sesame-street-puppets

Monroe wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
People want to be here. It should be something to be proud of. Instead, people act like it's an act of treason.

I'd take the illegals over a lot of the entitled dicks that this country already has.

Sounds like you don't like the country you currently live in.

Yes, people want to come here because they can get free stuff that they don't get at home. Good for them, bad for us.

JCishome wrote:
Yes, I'm sure the folks that wrote "Thug Life" and whatnot on the shrine were evoking Polynices and the tragic conflict of Antigone's love for her brother and loyalty to the state...

Good lord, sometimes a liberal arts education is a scary thing.

JCishome wrote:
Yes, I'm sure the folks that wrote "Thug Life" and whatnot on the shrine were evoking Polynices and the tragic conflict of Antigone's love for her brother and loyalty to the state...

Good lord, sometimes a liberal arts education is a scary thing.

Pebble wrote:
People want to be here. It should be something to be proud of. Instead, people act like it's an act of treason.

I'd take the illegals over a lot of the entitled dicks that this country already has.

VanVorster wrote:
calling trailer park people trash and some Asians ghetto rats is quite telling of the kind of person you are. Not that I didn't know it already.

dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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So imagine if in the black community the following thing happened:
1. The only people that had kids were married and middle class or above.
2. The only people that had more than 1 kid were in the top 1/3 of income for their city.
3. Personal responsibility was taught feverishly.

In other words, what if blacks suddenly adopted Asian culture? Now advance 40 years. What does the black community look like?

Forget the black community for a sec. Apply that across the board. You want to turn the US into China? Try enforcing that kind of change in the US - there'd be blood in the streets. And honestly, that's not the problem we're trying to solve - just an inferred and debatable factor in it.

@ VanVorster - good links. Worth the read.

VanVorster wrote:
Dude, do you even think before you write? "Blacks just adopt Asian culture" as though that's a panacea for everything. Do you even know black people besides what you see on television or read in newspapers? Blacks are not a monolithic group and Asian culture is not one-dimensional with all purported tiger moms. Also, are you sharing your admonishments and exhortations for white people in trailer parks, middle america Ohio, Kearny and the ailing suburbs. I mean it sounds like you figured out the problem for the rest of us in looking at the answer key, good job!


http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/ ... inese-20140123-story.html

http://www.asian-nation.org/model-minority.shtml

dtjcview wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Do you mind clarifying this post? Are you seriously claiming that family planning and personal responsibility are NOT significant ingredients in this mix? I suspected as much, considering you never addressed either even in passing. But please confirm this is your point of view.

No. I was arguing the point that it wasn't the only factor, and that some of the solutions on the table were overly-simplistic. Looking at a single statistic doesn't identify root cause. It's not simply about changing a perceived culture of irresponsibility - and what looks irresponsible in terms of a single-parent statistic, might be perfectly rational and responsible when viewed in the broader social framework. The link I referenced expresses it well:

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/4128 ... ihan-Report-Revisited.pdf
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Moynihan argued that reversing the decay of the traditional two-married-parent family was the key to improving blacks? prospects. In the intervening years, however, more children of all races and ethnicities have been raised in one-parent families and cohabiting unmarried-parent families. Even 50 years ago, black poverty and social inequity was not simply a result of single parenting. Today?s more complex social milieu requires a much broader strategy and set of initiatives to address the multitude of factors impeding black economic and social progress.

Untangling the web of obstacles that ensnares black families and undermines social equity requires efforts on three fronts: (1) reducing the structural barriers to black economic progress, (2) enhancing the incentives for working in the mainstream economy, and (3) improving family dynamics. Progress on these fronts can involve federal, state, local, and even individual policies and practices.

radryan03 wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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radryan03 wrote:
I find the racial tension in JC at the moment to be very concerning. It's intriguing how the 'us vs. them' mentality has been escalated off this event - not sure that I understand why.

Not really new. Just an event that brings it more to the surface, much like Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin did last year. Everyone is angry these days (from what I see, mostly due to economic reasons) and racial animosity appears to be an outlet for that rage.

But what did it?
- The killing of the cop killer?
- The removal of the of the killers memorial? Is the memorial really a celebration of disobedience towards 'the man'? (SO SICK)
- All the above?

This is impressively complex... and clearly the city has done a good job of keeping these issue out of the mainstream. The community gathering around a cop killer really drives home the state of our city - and it's a bit scary...

VanVorster wrote:
Oh that's rich coming from the likes of you devils. You're one of the toxic ones that I didn't specifically mention in my previous post. Stop projecting. I merely identify why so many people were upset about Zimmerman's acquittal in non-provocative language no less in contrast to your zealous defense of him and others like him, and that's supposed to be anti-white or racist against whites. So if a woman mentions the specter of sexism, she's anti-male I guess. No, thanks for playing though.



http://thoughtcatalog.com/erin-cosset ... eople-who-dont-see-color/

user1111 wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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user1111 wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
I'm having trouble understanding why a black man yelling that he wants to kill whites, during a funeral procession of a Hispanic policeman assassinated by another black man, has anything to do with Fox News and white racism.

its called insane, blacks can be crazy too...

Racism continues to have an impact on the mental health of African Americans. Negative stereotypes and attitudes of rejection have decreased, but continue to occur with measurable, adverse consequences. Historical and contemporary instances of negative treatment have led to a mistrust of authorities, many of whom are not seen as having the best interests of African Americans in mind.

If you stopped at the first sentence I would have agreed. But the rest can be reduced to "but ultimately it is still the fault of racist white people" which is self-evident nonsense.

I never used the word "White" racism can come from any race of people, I have even witnessed racism within the same race of people against each other. I think most whites like your self think that blacks are blaming you personally. Don't let your guilt fool you.

user1111 wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
I'm having trouble understanding why a black man yelling that he wants to kill whites, during a funeral procession of a Hispanic policeman assassinated by another black man, has anything to do with Fox News and white racism.

its called insane, blacks can be crazy too...

Racism continues to have an impact on the mental health of African Americans. Negative stereotypes and attitudes of rejection have decreased, but continue to occur with measurable, adverse consequences. Historical and contemporary instances of negative treatment have led to a mistrust of authorities, many of whom are not seen as having the best interests of African Americans in mind.

dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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Also, small note about human nature. If someone isn't allowed to fully participate in a conversation and feels like they're being lectured to they just leave.
...

That cuts both ways - when a proposed solution seems to involve replacing leaders that aren't lecturing the community on family planning and personal responsibility in the "right" way.

No doubt. But how do we avoid discussing family planning and personal responsibility when these two things are probably the most undeniable and significant ingredients that are missing in this situation?

SO...how does that square with your proposal to "kick out the PC police"? Who are they? Aren't they just people that disagree with a point of view?

Monroe wrote:
I'm having trouble understanding why a black man yelling that he wants to kill whites, during a funeral procession of a Hispanic policeman assassinated by another black man, has anything to do with Fox News and white racism.

dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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Also, small note about human nature. If someone isn't allowed to fully participate in a conversation and feels like they're being lectured to they just leave.
...

That cuts both ways - when a proposed solution seems to involve replacing leaders that aren't lecturing the community on family planning and personal responsibility in the "right" way.

VanVorster wrote:
I agree with Radryan from just a cursory review of JCList postings. When I first came to this site, it felt more like a community group; and overtime with an influx of more and more people, felt less cohesive and people feeling comfortable being either subtly racist to blatantly racist (especially anti-black and Muslim). I attribute it to our nation's seemingly inexorable and growing class divide which is linked race, incessant FOX brainwashing (some of the new posters here sound like they have it downloaded to their brains and just spout the rhetoric) and some feeling blacks/Latinos/Muslims should leave (someone posted as much awhile back saying "can all the white people come to Wayne Street to show we won't tolerate this anymore" rather than stating "concerned or civic minded citizens"). As a POC, I think I readily observe this phenomenon more than some others.

http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/the-pu ... eed-for-the-purge-anarchy

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/nyr ... ivisions-are-exposed.html

kencares wrote:
Attitudes and inequalities haven't really changed much since 1967. If this keeps up, we are priming ourselves for another mega riot.

In case you don't remember the last riots to hit Jersey, http://www.theseamericans.com/riots/newark-n-j-riots-1967/

The authorities should be doing everything they can to calm the situation, not fanning the flames with inflammatory language.

dtjcview wrote:


Yes I'm interested in a reasoned debate.

@Devilsadvocate - while we're kicking out the PC police, can we also kick out the over-simplistic scripts on causes and solution?

radryan03 wrote:
I find the racial tension in JC at the moment to be very concerning. It's intriguing how the 'us vs. them' mentality has been escalated off this event - not sure that I understand why.

jimbehrle wrote:
I'm glad we have a jury system in Jersey City and not a JCList system of justice. There's so much "hang them high and kill them all" attitude around here. It's not so much the Founding Fathers as it is the movie "The Purge."

dtjcview wrote:

Anyway, perhaps the kids are simply getting paid finally for their slave labor.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12 ... l#s210960title=13_Carpets

papadage wrote:
Why is this relevant? Are these the only people allowed to rent?

papadage wrote:
Everyone gets the benefit of the doubt. You've already shown yourself to be an elitist.

They will still be much more affordable than larger luxury rentals.

papadage wrote:
They signify people you don't like may move nearby.. I get it already.