Bubble_Tea wrote:
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It may not seem like it because you're focused solely on Morris Canal park but the city has done a pretty impressive job of developing the waterfront despite a difficult economic and political situation.

I agree 100%. That doesn't change the view held by me, and I'm sure many JC residents, that it would be great to see Morris Canal Park be something other than a glorified dog park.

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Bubble Tea, has anyone on this board said they would be opposed to development of that park?

I think lots of dog owners would prefer no development of the park if it meant that their dogs would be limited to a dog run and leash rules were enforced. That's pretty obvious.

Bubble_Tea wrote:
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mdips wrote:
Unfortunately I would not be in favor of a dog run in Morris Canal Park.

Firstly, they are generally designed too small. Take a look at the rendering of the dog run in the plans the "connect the parks" people drew up. It looks like an afterthought on the outskirts of the park.

Secondly, one of the big draws of Morris Canal park is the water. My dog spends 90-95% of the time I am at the park in the water or down walking along the rocky shoreline.

I think this comment goes to the heart of the dispute going on in this thread and is a HUGE problem.

Dog owners like this person want their dogs to have, literally, free reign in JC's parks. And they view developed parks with dog-run areas as a threat to that free reign.

I think people like this would actually oppose fixing up Morris Canal park and making it look nice if it meant the installation of a dog run. They prefer the weeded areas high grass, broken up pavement, etc. that dogs may love to run through, whereas everyone else would like a nice clean park they can enjoy.

The difference I suppose is that certain dog owners see the parks as primarily being available for the enjoyment of their dogs. Conversely, everyone else see's them as being primarily for the enjoyment of people.

nyrgravey9 wrote:
MDips,

I think in the other thread we established a more comprehensive reason why dogs off leash is a bad thing (despite the fact that it's flat out illegal), which includes possible bites, danger to other pets/individuals, etc. This thread has narrowed the focus to one aspect, and is ignoring the larger picture of that particular argument.

I agree with the rest, it's nice to see increased enforcement (Vigilante, I think you owe me a beer...if I recall you said it would never happen).

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mdips wrote:
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Bubble_Tea wrote:
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Piert1025 wrote:
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nyrgravey9 wrote:
Now we just need those cops to issue off leash tickets in Morris Canal, Hamilton and Van Vorst Park. Progress!

Totally stealing the violin video...

So you are the person that posted that thread a few weeks back on responsible dog ownership, right?

What do you think would degrade the quality of a grass field more (because that WAS the whole point of your post, right?)- a dog running on it or a car driving on it?

The cop drove onto the field to give a ticket to the owner of a leash-less dog....

Both degrade the quality of JC parks and both should not happen. But, generally, I am very happy to see police enforcing the leash rule. Hopefully, this is a sign of a change in enforcement policy!

JC parks need fenced in dog runs so dog owners have a space where they can let their dogs go free without risking a fine and so that everyone can enjoy JC parks without dogs damaging them.

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Let's be fair, technically speaking an off leash dog does no more damage to a park than an on leash dog. As well as the fact that on vs off leash will do little to improve people cleaning up their dog poop. If someone is inconsiderate enough to not pick up after their dog, they're likely not going to do it whether the dog is off leash or not.

Saying off leash dogs damage the parks is a seemingly weak argument because there are much more damaging activities that happen on a daily basis. Take a look at the center of the Morris Canal park. That grass will never grow back because of the volleyball games every weekend. I'm not in any way arguing they shouldn't be allowed to happen, just pointing out that they've permanently destroyed the grass. In lincoln park, just stroll through the park on a sunday night or monday morning during the summer and see all the litter left after the big bbqs and parties from the weekend(not to mention the blatant public alcohol consumption that occurs).

Bubble_Tea wrote:
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Piert1025 wrote:
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nyrgravey9 wrote:
Now we just need those cops to issue off leash tickets in Morris Canal, Hamilton and Van Vorst Park. Progress!

Totally stealing the violin video...

So you are the person that posted that thread a few weeks back on responsible dog ownership, right?

What do you think would degrade the quality of a grass field more (because that WAS the whole point of your post, right?)- a dog running on it or a car driving on it?

The cop drove onto the field to give a ticket to the owner of a leash-less dog....

Both degrade the quality of JC parks and both should not happen. But, generally, I am very happy to see police enforcing the leash rule. Hopefully, this is a sign of a change in enforcement policy!

JC parks need fenced in dog runs so dog owners have a space where they can let their dogs go free without risking a fine and so that everyone can enjoy JC parks without dogs damaging them.

nyrgravey9 wrote:
DTJCview, I understand your point. However, when one of those problems begins to get out of hand, residents like myself decide it's time to put some balance into the equation and ask for more enforcement. If littering for out of control, I'd probably be ranting and calling for more litter enforcement.

You're deflecting responsibility and distracting from the issue I've pointed out in my original post. Your points about other violations are outside the scope of this discussion.

How about this...the next time you're pulled over by a police office, for speeding, or a right turn violation, whatever...I want you to explain to the officer "hey, there are kids playing soccer in areas of the park not designated for soccer playing."

Once that happens, login here and report back what that officer says, I'd love to hear it.

Subsequently, I don't remember the last time a kid playing soccer took a shit on the grass for other kids to step in. I also don't recall reading about any soccer playing kids biting other people in the park. Maybe it has happened somewhere, but it's definitely not a widespread problem. If it was a big problem, I'd write about that instead.

I CAN, however, point to article after article of dogs off leash biting people, or someone getting sick from errant feces.

Lastly, if the issue of kids playing soccer in parks bothers you so much, so ahead and start a post about it. I welcome local involvement on all issues. Let's see how many people will back you up on that fight.

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dtjcview wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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yorkist wrote:
You missed the "except as in designated for the purpose." There are areas in the park "designated for the purpose." Regardless, they didn't want to sit on the grass either.

Nope I was pretty clear. "Soccer playing outside designated areas is also breaking the law according to JC Ordinances:"

Regardless of whether that particular ordinance is obeyed and/or enforced, it doesn't give anybody the right to let their dogs run off leash (and no, I don't violate this ordinance either, haven't played soccer since I was a kid).

I'm actually making a case for enforcing all the ordinances. The problem with selective enforcement, targeting a specific group, is that it alienates that group. It also doesn't help build stronger relationships between police and the community. Our police should be writing tickets for dog poop, unleashed dogs, cyclists on sidewalks, littering, ball playing in picnic areas, and all instances where City ordinances are being broken.

nyrgravey9 wrote:
Actually, if you go to any of the parks, Morris Canal especially, on any given day, it's closer to 50% or more, but nice try.

Secondly, no one's requesting the entire JCPD drop major crime investigation to stop the dreaded dog poop problem.

It takes one cop, with a ticket book and a pen, for MAYBE an hour total to hit the three major parks in DTJC. Problem solved. I seriously doubt one diverted cop, who is already patrolling DTJC, will miss out on the big drug ring bust they're so fond of doing.

Rather than being a pretentious DB, you can actually contribute something constructive to the discussion.

I should have known with your hipsterific avatar that we were dealing with a superior intelligence here.

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Vigilante wrote:
Maybe 3% of dog owners walk their pups off leash. Probably about 3% don't pick up the poop. I would say 50% of the drivers in DTJC break the law, speed, roll through Stop signs etc. The ticket for off-leash dog is $56.00. You really think the cops are going to throw out some big dragnet to catch dog walkers? Good Luck Joe Friday.