Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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Just can't stay away
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No it is exactly as nefarious, especially if your figures are right. If we're talking, as Fulop states, a third of the 550 strong Fire Dept, there are 183 people in supervisory positions. Only two of them are at the higher end of the scale. Leaving aside the idiocy of averaging two pay rates that only one person has, that leaves 181 earning between $120,000 to $130,000. For sake of argument, if we take the worst case scenario of there being only one captain and 180 Battalion Chiefs it still only results in an average of $130,196.72, and yet the $156,000 pay rate is given equal prominence and we get posts like this - Quote:
But there are no firemen earning $156K, there's one guy at that rate overseeing 600 men and women and the only reason jcboyz thinks there are firemen earning that much money is because Fulop is, by mistake or by design, misrepresenting the facts. $120,000-$156,000 is not an average.
Posted on: 2010/6/2 22:26
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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No, it does make it illegitimate. He's not relating the average to a range, if so where is the average? An average is a single number, it's not a matter of me liking or disliking it, expressing a single number as a range is incorrect and misleading. If Elmo has 3 firemen, and he pays Big Bird one bean, Cookie Monster two beans and Oscar three beans then, the average wage is two beans not one to three beans. Quote: Here's an example for you (sorry, no elmo pictures to make this easy) -- 5 salaries that I just made up: It certainly is revolutionary math to express a very precise number as a range. Now we're going to use our imaginations. Imagine Elmo writing a letter to the Sesame Journal complaining that Mr Hooper is charging an astronomical price for a box of Monsterberry Crunch. Imagine the price was $5 but Elmo decides to express that very precise number as between $1 and $10, now try to imagine why he would do that. Quote: As for your correction of semantics - good for you. It's not semantics, it's math and I resent the fact that you're implying I'm playing with words to make my numbers fit. If we're talking salary then those are the numbers we are dealing with, we do not include the two beans Big Bird got as a bonus for saving Bert and Ernie from a house fire or the half a banana Oscar found in the bottom of his garbage can. Quote: You state: "Fulop clearly states 'an average salary between $120,000 and $156,000'." You do not know what a misquote is, neither are you capable of understanding a quote in relation to an argument. I quoted Fulop correctly and in relation to the fact that he was talking about Salary, not bonuses or overtime. I don't see what your wider quote proves in that or any respect other than to give you an opportunity to once again state, for the third time in a single post, that one number falls between two other numbers. Please try to be more concise. This post was brought to you by the letter F - M and the number 120,000 - 156,000.
Posted on: 2010/6/2 18:26
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven\'t a clue
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Oh dear. You need to go back to school, son. Firstly, I never said one person got $156,000 and the rest got $120,000, I said "there may well be one employee on $156,000 with the majority closer to the $120,000". One would think you'd have absorbed that seeing as you read my post and quoted it. I'd imagine the Fire Service has a hierarchy and that the pay reflects that. Maybe you know better, but I doubt it based on your post. Secondly, Fulop clearly states "an average salary between $120,000 and $156,000". A salary is defined as a fixed compensation periodically paid to a person for regular work or services. Salary does not include bonuses or overtime. Thirdly, a pay rise in the middle of the year, or at any other time, would result in the salary of that year being calculated as the initial salary plus the pay rise proportional to the time it was paid within that year. It most certainly would not make it "correct to talk in terms of average salaries". If you need to me to elucidate further I'll be only too happy to do so, perhaps in words of few syllables and a few pictures of Elmo to make it easy to understand. I stand my two points - "an average salary between $120,000 and $156,000" is not an average and all politicians, regardless of messianic fervor, should be examined under the same magnifying glass.
Posted on: 2010/6/2 16:24
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven\'t a clue
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That's not an average, that's a range. An average is a single value that is meant to typify a list of values, not two values representing the lowest and highest values. Given the nature of pay structures, there may well be one employee on $156,000 with the majority closer to the $120,000 mark, but here the highest number is presented in equal measure. You may think I'm a pedant but this sort of thing is typical of politicians skewing facts to suit their arguments. Otherwise it's an honest mistake, in which case I'd question Fulop's capability. I'll take Fulop over Healy in a heartbeat, but at the end of the day he's still a politician.
Posted on: 2010/6/2 14:16
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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Why is there an invocation by a catholic priest? Why isn't this a secular event?
Especially with young children around.
Posted on: 2010/5/27 16:24
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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First person to post from within Hamilton Park.
Mayor Healy looking good, lost a few pounds, walking in straight line. Good for him.
Posted on: 2010/5/27 16:11
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Re: Jersey City off-duty cop bravely fought off six attackers
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Surely the only Equalizer would be if you were Edward Woodward.
Posted on: 2010/5/10 1:25
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Re: Goodbye and Good Riddance New Jersey
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Prediction: You will never, ever be happy.
Posted on: 2010/4/30 6:38
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Re: Downtown: Guy Stealing Packages and Mail.
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Ha, yeah! Ain't that the truth?
Posted on: 2010/1/25 5:14
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Re: Bayonne firefighter, wife are accused of marijuana farming and selling crop on internet
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This article does not state that this couple were selling marijuana on the internet. The original Jersey Journal article headline is "Bayonne firefighter, wife are accused of marijuana farming".
Posted on: 2010/1/6 15:15
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Re: Dear Webmaster, I find your thread consolidation annoying
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I agree.
Posted on: 2009/12/14 23:11
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Re: shampoo jc salon now open!!
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Got a great haircut here today from Xtina.
Posted on: 2009/12/12 23:28
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Re: sourcing ingredients in or around JC
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I'm looking for fresh sloe berries, the fruit of the blackthorn.
Posted on: 2009/11/28 22:41
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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From what I could see, the fountain is the same size as the one in VVP. I don't know what benefits people think a larger fountain might bring.
Posted on: 2009/11/24 16:18
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Re: Ode to my lost home/ My first posting in 11 years of living here
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Congrats on being the vanguard for gentrification.
Posted on: 2009/11/10 21:53
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Re: Atheist Group Stops Parking Discounts for Jehovah's Witnesses in Journal Square
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I never mentioned the Catholic Church. That you immediately associated the Catholic Church with my mention of child abuse speaks more about your awareness of the endemic problem and your own propensity for prejudice than it does about mine. I\'d like to third the call for you to justify your Public School claim.
Posted on: 2009/11/7 0:38
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Re: Atheist Group Stops Parking Discounts for Jehovah\'s Witnesses in Journal Square
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You forgot child molesting, covering up and anti-gay marriage campaigning
Posted on: 2009/11/5 18:10
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Re: Where do you get plants in this town?
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The 14th street nursery can be pricey.
A cheaper alternative would be to emulate one of my neighbors by simply helping yourself to whatever is in my front yard.
Posted on: 2009/10/27 4:37
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Re: Anti-gay group plans protests in Jersey City
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As a former delinquent I can assure you that a chance to cause trouble is a chance to cause trouble.
Posted on: 2009/10/21 20:48
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Re: Arrests of Jersey City/Hoboken Police in Cocaine Sting @ Calle Luna/Hernandez Restaurant -356 Va
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Lock them all up and throw away the key.
Posted on: 2009/10/8 6:29
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Re: Police Decode what Gang Graffiti Means
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C is for Crips! B is for Bloods?
This Ben Wilson makes a schoolboy's code wheel look like Bletchley Park.
Posted on: 2009/10/5 3:36
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Re: Hamilton Park Ale House jersey Ave.
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Ha ha!
I was that friend, and I just told the exact same story less than an hour ago when discussing the Ale House's closure in Skinners.
Posted on: 2009/10/5 3:23
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Re: Girl in basement on Colgate btn 1st and 2nd?
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Quote:
GrovePath wrote:
Posted on: 2009/9/21 4:01
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Re: Favorite current downtown weirdos?
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What happened to the midget beggar that used to hang out in front of Paradise Deli or the Liquor Store on Coles?
Posted on: 2009/8/5 15:33
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Re: Jack Shaw found dead!
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Well I certainly have been.
Posted on: 2009/7/29 3:28
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Re: Jack Shaw found dead!
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You have blood on your keyboard. People are being hounded to death before they get a fair hearing.
Posted on: 2009/7/29 3:16
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Re: Jack Shaw found dead!
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Well, I hope you're all happy now.
Posted on: 2009/7/29 2:48
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Re: Several local politicians arrested on corruption charges
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Wow, if anyone doubts how big this story is its the second lead article on the BBC site -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8165607.stm
Posted on: 2009/7/24 10:50
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Re: Guy Catrillo is a Repulican and a screw up
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I'm not a Republican and, as a non-citizen, I'm not even eligible to vote, but Guy Catrillo is my neighbor and he's alright by me.
Posted on: 2009/5/2 2:23
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