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Re: Flooding (help)
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


The thing with my flooding situation is the most water I get on my floor is about an inch. IF I had 2 feet of water I would say "ok I am screwed" but I think someone can come up with something that can stop one inch of water.

Posted on: 2005/10/13 13:26
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Re: Flooding (help)
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

VanVJR wrote:
Quote:
Basically...JC needs a massive upgrade of its sewer systems. The amount of flooding downtown and along the 1 and the 9 (particularly around Manhattan) is hard to excuse.

When river is running higher than the sewers, there's not much you can do to fix it.


Yes. Good point! Look to New Orleans for an example.

Posted on: 2005/10/12 22:29
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Re: Flooding (help)
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

Skadave wrote:
So my apartment flooded again, I live in a duplex and our bedroom is in the basement. Fortunately for me I have a tile floor and all I have to do is a vigorous mopping.

Our plummer came over and told me the same things plummers tell me when they evaluate the situation (backup from the sewers, check valves, etc..

The question that no one seams to answer is this: If we put in more sump pumps will this help? they always tell me that it will just get pumped out to the street and it will come right back. Now I would rather have the water pumpinig out to the street than on my bedroom floor. If I have a bunch of sump pumps pumping out water and keeping my floor dry I really couldn't care less if it's the same water circulating from the street to my sump pump. I am off base here?



Despite the title of the topic thread below, there are postings regarding sump pumps, flooding/sewer problems relative to the street runoff, sewer system (or, lack, thereof!), et al.

When I lived on Barrow across from what used to be JC Winston's Bar, we had heavy flood whenever it rained hard in our basement level of our duplex apt.

Even with a sump pump we had to bail water for over 12 hours straight with no relief and that's why I finally moved to an upstairs apt when I found out that all of Downtown JC is basically on the flood plain and the so-called sewer system has pipes too small to take the runoff particularly with all the new development.

See this link here at JCList for more background:

Re: is anyone's basement getting flooded?

Posted on: 2005/10/12 22:19
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Help US Sue Spectra! Join OR Donate!
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Re: Flooding (help)
Newbie
Newbie


Quote:
Basically...JC needs a massive upgrade of its sewer systems. The amount of flooding downtown and along the 1 and the 9 (particularly around Manhattan) is hard to excuse.

When river is running higher than the sewers, there's not much you can do to fix it.

Posted on: 2005/10/12 22:14
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Re: Flooding (help)
Newbie
Newbie


Quote:

designknob wrote:
quit yer whinin!


I found this huge towel from target that cleaned it up pretty good. Maybe you know which one it is.

Posted on: 2005/10/12 21:52
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Re: Flooding (help)
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

Skadave wrote:
So my apartment flooded again, I live in a duplex and our bedroom is in the basement. Fortunately for me I have a tile floor and all I have to do is a vigorous mopping.

Our plummer came over and told me the same things plummers tell me when they evaluate the situation (backup from the sewers, check valves, etc..

The question that no one seams to answer is this: If we put in more sump pumps will this help? they always tell me that it will just get pumped out to the street and it will come right back. Now I would rather have the water pumpinig out to the street than on my bedroom floor. If I have a bunch of sump pumps pumping out water and keeping my floor dry I really couldn't care less if it's the same water circulating from the street to my sump pump. I am off base here?



Despite the title of the topic thread below, there are postings there regarding sump pump problems/solutions regarding flooding/sewer problems relative to the street runoff, sewer system (or, lack, thereof!), et al.

When I lived at Barrow across from what used to be JC Winston's, we had major floods in heavy rains, and even with sump pump running had to bail constantly for 12 hours!

That's why I no longer rented ground floor apts when I found out all of this area is on the flood plain and the so-called sewer system uses small pipes and backs up into street so you can't get rid of the water in your house/apt.

See this link here at JCList for more background:

Re: is anyone's basement getting flooded?

Posted on: 2005/10/12 21:48
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Re: Flooding (help)
Home away from home
Home away from home


quit yer whinin!

Posted on: 2005/10/12 20:20
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Re: Flooding (help)
Newbie
Newbie


Nature has kicked my ass today. I have water everywhere in my kitchen

Posted on: 2005/10/12 19:35
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Re: Flooding (help)
Home away from home
Home away from home


I knew of a house on 5th St., south side between Erie and Jersey that installed sump pumps up the wazoo, then finished off the basement and filled it with furniture, confident they could win the battle. I walked by a few years later after a big rain and saw them dumping all the furniture, furnishings, and tiles from the floor that had buckled.

I hate to sound pessimistic, but n the end, nature will win.


Posted on: 2005/10/12 18:32
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Re: Flooding (help)
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


Bummer!

I live in the Heights and, on day's like today, there's always water in the basement. I'm not sure that this condition can be stopped. My solution is to work around it. I have a sump pump, a dehumidifier, and everything in the basement is in plastic boxes or on bookshelves. Basically...JC needs a massive upgrade of its sewer systems. The amount of flooding downtown and along the 1 and the 9 (particularly around Manhattan) is hard to excuse.

Posted on: 2005/10/12 17:36
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Re: Flooding (help)
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


So my apartment flooded again, I live in a duplex and our bedroom is in the basement. Fortunately for me I have a tile floor and all I have to do is a vigorous mopping.

Our plummer came over and told me the same things plummers tell me when they evaluate the situation (backup from the sewers, check valves, etc..

The question that no one seams to answer is this: If we put in more sump pumps will this help? they always tell me that it will just get pumped out to the street and it will come right back. Now I would rather have the water pumpinig out to the street than on my bedroom floor. If I have a bunch of sump pumps pumping out water and keeping my floor dry I really couldn't care less if it's the same water circulating from the street to my sump pump. I am off base here?

Posted on: 2005/10/12 15:43
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


what would Jesus do? Apparently kick people out of their houses.

This is absolutely disgusting. Even beyond the fact that using imminent domain to transfer from private holder to antoher private holder is a gross perversion of the original intent of eminent domain, the fact that a christian institution is using the power of the state to coerce a private citizen is a betrayel of every tenet that this institution is supposedly founded upon.

I try very hard to avoid catholic bashing (given that my better half is a papist), but its very obvious that "the church" has over the centuries earned a reputation for grasping materialism and the pursuit of power- something at odds with the church's ostensible mission. I would hope that the church would be concerned with that perception, as it seriously interferes with what ought to be its main goal, promoting love and fraternity amongst all people. Instead, I see a callous institution that wants to obliterate someone's house, remove a place of recreation for the community, and destroy a man's livilihood. All for 7 yards of extra football practice.


Posted on: 2005/10/11 14:31
"Contemplate this upon the Tree of Woe."
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
Home away from home
Home away from home


Check out this thread:
http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewt ... 17&forum=9#forumpost36258

So, yes there has been public opposition. The taking of the Flamingo was at least defensible, as it was for a road. The city tried to screw the owner by not paying what the property is worth but backed down.

I hope that the ACLU helps. It will be nice if they have expanded their conception of rights to property rights. If only they could make the stretch to 2nd amendment rights.


Quote:

DanL wrote:
An outpouring of public opposition helped stop the city from taking the Flamingo Restaurant by Exchange Pl. to widen Greene St., though I am not sure if the Golden Cicada holds the same public affection as the Flamingo does.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the Golden Cicada shuttered for a couple of years before recently reopening maybe 6-12 months ago.

Posted on: 2005/10/11 1:48
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Re: The Beacon
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

steveikin wrote:
Henry said that the restaurant and misc. stores will be open to the public. Plus I would have thought anyone purchasing a store would have in their contract of sale that The Beacon must remain open to the general public.

I can't imagine a restaurant, bank, grocey store been profitable with only 120 units as customers, (growing to 1200 in 5-years). However, I might be wrong.

Those of us who have moved by necessity to McGinley Square, which is more convenient to downtown and lower Manhattan than most of the Heights, will be happy to engage in commerce with Beacon residents. I'll be happy to buy in their stores and sell them my goods and services.

Posted on: 2005/10/10 14:47
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk


Here is an article that appeared in The Star Ledger on October 2nd.

On May 21st, two cousins hosted a fundraising dinner for their Assemblyman in Union Township, NJ.

On May24th, the five member township committee voted to seize a property owners land by eminent domain to make way for a development. ( 90 townhouses).

Q- Who is the developer?

A- The two cousins

http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/b ... xml?starledger?nnj&coll=1
Assemblyman denies influencing townhouse deal
Union Twp. moves to seize land, give supporter building rights
Sunday, October 02, 2005
IAN T. SHEARN
Star-Ledger Staff
On May 21, Albert G. Mauti Jr. and his cousin Joseph hosted a fundraiser for Assemblyman Joseph Cryan at the Westmount Country Club in Passaic County. The two developers and family members picked up the $10,400 dinner tab, donated another $8,000 and raised more than $70,000 that night for the powerful Union County Democrat, according to state election records.

Three days later, the governing body in Cryan's hometown of Union Township -- all Democrats -- introduced an ordinance paving the way for the Mautis to build 90 or so townhouses on six acres of abandoned industrial land along the Conrail line in town.

There is just one problem: Union Township doesn't own the land.

It is owned by Carol Segal, a 65-year-old retired electrical engineer. Over the past 10 years, the Union Township resident says, he has spent about $1.5 million to acquire the property, and he, too, wants to build townhouses there.

Segal said he met with Cryan, who is head of the township's Democratic Party, and other local officials "scores of times" over the past five years to discuss the project. He claims the talks turned adversarial after he rejected proposals to work with various developers they proposed.

On May 24, the five-member township committee voted unanimously to authorize the municipality to seize Segal's land through eminent domain and name its own developer.

"They want to steal my land," Segal said. "What right do they have when I intend to do the exact same thing they want to do with my property?"

Cryan, 44, a rising star in state Democratic politics, denied any connection between the fundraiser and the committee's vote. He described the Mautis as "good friends," but said he played no role in shaping the township's redevelopment plan.

Posted on: 2005/10/10 3:11
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk


There was an article today in The Washington Times about an 83 year old man in St. Louis. He faces an eminent domain order forcing him to leave so an office and store development can move in. $160 million dollar development.

This really bothers me.

I know all the arguments in support of the decision regarding Golden Cicada but for the city to declare an eminent domain decision so a private intitution can build is a terrible decision.

Don't get me wrong, I love St Peter's Prep, but IMHO, this is wrong. Not only is this devastating to Cheng "Terry" Tang but sets precedence.

I think city officials need to know that residents are not happy about this decision and try to help fight it.

What does everyone else think?

The Kelo vs New London decision looks like it can be a danger to us all.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/specia ... 20051009-121740-3805r.htm
Drawing the line on eminent domain
By Joyce Howard Price
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
October 9, 2005


Jim Seelbach, 83, lives in a suburb of St. Louis and he is about to lose his home of 20 years. The city wants it to make way for a shopping center.
Mr. Seelbach and several dozen neighbors in the city of Sunset Hills face an eminent-domain order that could seize their properties to develop the $160 million complex filled with stores and offices.
Even if he were amenable to moving, he says the money offered for his home would make it impossible to find similar housing.
Mr. Seelbach has refused to accept the $118,000 offered for his two-bedroom, one-bath frame dwelling in the Sunset Manor subdivision near St. Louis.
"I can't find another home for $118,000, and at 83, there's no way I can even obtain a mortgage," he says.
Likewise, his neighbor, John N. Hogan, 79, a Korean War veteran who has lived in his house for nearly 50 years, doesn't want to move and doesn't think he has a fair offer for it.
"They want to take my three-bedroom, two-bath redwood home for $147,000. But I can't buy anything in this area for $147,000," he says.
Both men have filed lawsuits to block their ousters. They're not alone in their anger.
Homeowners nationwide are seeking to undo a June 23 Supreme Court ruling they see as the death of private-property rights. At issue is the high court's 5-4 decision in the Connecticut case of Kelo v. City of New London, in which justices said government -- typically, cities and counties -- can seize private property from its owner and give it to a private developer who promises to use it to generate more tax revenue.
"This was, perhaps, the most universally unpopular Supreme Court decision in recent memory," says Dana Berliner, a senior lawyer with the Institute for Justice, a libertarian public-interest law firm that was involved in the legal case. "It is a universally despised opinion."
In the Kelo case, the institute represented nine New London homeowners, who tried to halt the city's takeover of their properties for economic redevelopment. Miss Berliner argued their case before the Supreme Court.
"A lot of Supreme Court decisions affect only a small number of people. But this ruling affects everyone, since everybody either owns a home or hopes to own one someday. It changes what it means to own a home or a business," Miss Berliner says, adding that the property now can be seized to make way for anything from strip malls to amusement parks under what the institute calls the Supreme Court's "expanded" interpretation of eminent domain.

Cont. http://www.washingtontimes.com/specia ... 20051009-121740-3805r.htm

Posted on: 2005/10/10 0:54
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Re: The Beacon
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk


Henry said that the restaurant and misc. stores will be open to the public. Plus I would have thought anyone purchasing a store would have in their contract of sale that The Beacon must remain open to the general public.

I can't imagine a restaurant, bank, grocey store been profitable with only 120 units as customers, (growing to 1200 in 5-years). However, I might be wrong.

Posted on: 2005/10/9 12:36
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Re: Lefrak Sues Jersey City Museum
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk


Quote:

Skadave wrote:
This is a nice story about a gazzillionaire suing a non-profit organization.

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/jerse ... 28417211135780.xml&coll=3


It's my understanding that the museum is not being sued, the officers are.

From article
Filed last week in Hudson County Superior Court, the lawsuit claims Ofelia Garcia and Marion Grzesiak - the museum's board chair and executive director - have made "false, defamatory and malicious" comments about the mega-developer.

Posted on: 2005/10/9 6:23
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Re: The Beacon
Home away from home
Home away from home


I was on the Beacon website, they will have their own restaurant, grocery store, screening room and other amenities. If these are actually built they will be a gated isolated community. They probably will get in their cars and go to Shoprite, Target, Home Depot and Whole Foods in Edgewater.

Posted on: 2005/10/9 1:48
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
Newbie
Newbie


We have a MAKE MY PARK flyer on our main entry door.

If someone made a flyer that said:

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL!
SAVE THE GOLDEN CICADA!

or something in that vein, I would rock it, too.

Posted on: 2005/10/8 18:02
Have you had your DoJo Mojo today?
 Top 


Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
Newbie
Newbie


If there is a rally to support the cicada I'm there.

I hope someone spray paints thou shall not steal (commandment 8) on the school building.

Or even commandment 10
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

(I assume the last clause counts for Bars)


Posted on: 2005/10/8 17:48
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Re: The Beacon
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Quote:

harsimus wrote:

I think you've succumbed to wishful thinking. Change is coming to that area but it will only affect the Med Center campus. The Beacon will be, probably for decades, an upper-middle class enclave surrounded by projects. They will be as much a part of the JC community as those who live in Port Liberte. They will drive and not walk. They will take shuttles to and from the PATH. And they most definitely will not mingle with the surrounding neighborhood. They will have their own retail amenities. I wonder how long it will be before it becomes a gated community?

The idea of "buying out" people who live in rent-subsidized government housing sounds like a rumor that would be started at the Metrovest marketing department. Don't believe it for a second.

Don't get me wrong. I think its a good project and it saves buildings that are worthy of being saved. I just don't believe that The Beacon will be a catalyst to bring change to that neighborhood.


I agree that the Beacon has the potential for becoming another Port Liberte however, there are changes happening in the surrounding neighbourhoods that will (hopefully) attract the new residents to Monticello Avenue. We're already working on attracting the types of businesses that will cater to the residents of the Beacon in our Main Street efforts. The Beacon certainly is an enticement for those upscale shops to look again at Monticello Avenue (and hopefully McGinley Square) as the Beacon becomes populated with more affluent people.

Regarding the rumour on the buyout of the projects...I don't know if I believe it but Metrovest has put a decent amount of money into this and I'm sure that Filopoulous is smart enough to know that the Montomery Gardens Projects will be a hindrance to selling the condos so I won't rule out the rumour just yet.

Posted on: 2005/10/8 17:27
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Re: The Beacon
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Quote:

Roaring20s wrote:

Change is coming to this area...I know that it's difficult for some of you to believe that anywhere west of the turnpike would be an alternative to the waterfront but it's true. I heard a rumour that Metrovest was trying to buy the people out of the projects and relocate them somewhere else...don't know if it's true but it's what I heard.

I think (and someone correct me if I'm wrong on this) that the Beacon will be providing shuttle service from there to Exchange Place. Don't know if it will be all hours or if it's just for rush hour.

I actually can believe that 70 people would have put down money to live here...it's got incredible views of Manhattan, the Statue of Liberty, the Watchung Mountains, etc. For those that want a view that isn't blocked by neighbouring towers (a la Newport), this would be ideal as it sits on top of the Palisades.


I think you've succumbed to wishful thinking. Change is coming to that area but it will only affect the Med Center campus. The Beacon will be, probably for decades, an upper-middle class enclave surrounded by projects. They will be as much a part of the JC community as those who live in Port Liberte. They will drive and not walk. They will take shuttles to and from the PATH. And they most definitely will not mingle with the surrounding neighborhood. They will have their own retail amenities. I wonder how long it will be before it becomes a gated community?

The idea of "buying out" people who live in rent-subsidized government housing sounds like a rumor that would be started at the Metrovest marketing department. Don't believe it for a second.

Don't get me wrong. I think its a good project and it saves buildings that are worthy of being saved. I just don't believe that The Beacon will be a catalyst to bring change to that neighborhood.

Posted on: 2005/10/8 17:11
 Top 


Re: The Beacon
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Quote:

glx wrote:

I think it's perfectly fair to have a discussion about the area around it. I find it odd that 70 people had no problem with paying over half a million dollars in "one week" to live next to the projects.

It's barely (20 minutes) within walking distance to the PATH and it's certainly not an area that I'd want to walk around at night (and I'm a big dude).

I'd like to buy around JC, but can't really justify taking a gamble of an area around projects that don't look like they're closing any time soon is going to magically reform itself. Even if you get rid of the multi-story projects there's still single-unit projects 2 blocks away.


Change is coming to this area...I know that it's difficult for some of you to believe that anywhere west of the turnpike would be an alternative to the waterfront but it's true. I heard a rumour that Metrovest was trying to buy the people out of the projects and relocate them somewhere else...don't know if it's true but it's what I heard.

I think (and someone correct me if I'm wrong on this) that the Beacon will be providing shuttle service from there to Exchange Place. Don't know if it will be all hours or if it's just for rush hour.

I actually can believe that 70 people would have put down money to live here...it's got incredible views of Manhattan, the Statue of Liberty, the Watchung Mountains, etc. For those that want a view that isn't blocked by neighbouring towers (a la Newport), this would be ideal as it sits on top of the Palisades.

Posted on: 2005/10/8 15:20
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
Home away from home
Home away from home


An outpouring of public opposition helped stop the city from taking the Flamingo Restaurant by Exchange Pl. to widen Greene St., though I am not sure if the Golden Cicada holds the same public affection as the Flamingo does.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the Golden Cicada shuttered for a couple of years before recently reopening maybe 6-12 months ago.

Posted on: 2005/10/8 14:35
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk


I am not aware of any organzied form of community support for Golden Cicada.

I really feel for the guy everytime I see his home made sign hanging on the gate that says

"Hands Off My Property"

I think SPP is a great school and important to the community. I have supported the school over the years and like to see good things happen
But this....well, it's wrong.

Posted on: 2005/10/8 13:55
 Top 


Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
Newbie
Newbie


This is great news for the Golden Cicada.

Maybe St. Peter's and the JCRA will reconsider, nobody wants bad press like this. Then again, maybe they will fight harder. Either way, at least having the ACLU represent the Golden Cicada will definitely lift a huge financial burden for Tan.

Has there been any showing of community support for Tan?

Posted on: 2005/10/8 13:31
Have you had your DoJo Mojo today?
 Top 


Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk


As the owner of The Golden Cicada, Cheng "Terry" Tang, continues his legal battle, it looks as if he might being getting some help from the ACLU.


http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/jerse ... 28762947174610.xml&coll=3
'GOLDEN' DEFENDER
ACLU likely to represent tavern in eminent domain fight
Saturday, October 08, 2005
By BONNIE FRIEDMAN
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER
The New Jersey chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union will likely represent the owner of a Downtown tavern who is fighting the Jersey City Redevelopment Agency in its efforts to take his property through eminent domain.

Ronald Chen, an associate dean at Rutgers Law School-Newark, and a volunteer attorney with the ACLU, said he is "strongly examining" the case of Cheng "Terry" Tan, who owns the Golden Cicada tavern.

In July, the Jersey City Redevelopment Agency took title to the 5,000-square-foot bar with the intention of turning it over to St. Peter's Prep, a private Catholic high school for boys. The school intends to demolish the tavern in order to add 7 yards to an adjacent athletic field.

Chen said the case is interesting because it touches on two constitutional issues: the use of eminent domain to take from one private party and give to another; and separation of church and state.

The case, Chen said, poses a challenge in light of the Supreme Court's recent Kelo v. New London, Conn., decision reaffirming the government's right to transfer property between private owners.

For Tan, the backing of the ACLU would save him thousands of dollars that he would otherwise have to pay to a private attorney.

"The ACLU will be taking this pro bono and that is very important," Tan said. "For a private lawyer, it will not be profitable to represent for the right to take other than to do a settlement."

Tan has fired several lawyers who recommended taking a settlement and has since been representing himself.

The case - which was scheduled for yesterday - was postponed until Nov. 4 in front of Superior Court Judge Maurice Gallipoli.

Posted on: 2005/10/8 12:56
 Top 


Re: The Beacon
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


Quote:

steveikin wrote:
One final note: Let's try and not have a discussion about the area, it's obviously on the way up, which will hopefully benefit everyone.


I think it's perfectly fair to have a discussion about the area around it. I find it odd that 70 people had no problem with paying over half a million dollars in "one week" to live next to the projects.

It's barely (20 minutes) within walking distance to the PATH and it's certainly not an area that I'd want to walk around at night (and I'm a big dude).

I'd like to buy around JC, but can't really justify taking a gamble of an area around projects that don't look like they're closing any time soon is going to magically reform itself. Even if you get rid of the multi-story projects there's still single-unit projects 2 blocks away.

Posted on: 2005/10/8 12:29
 Top 


Re: The Beacon
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk


I went to an appointment at The Beacon Sales Center this afternoon and thought I?d share the info:

Studios ? High $200K to Mid $300K ? between 596 sqft and 750 sqft
1 Beds ? Low/Mid $300K to Mid $500K ? between 750 sqft and 900 sqft
2 Beds ? Low/Mid $400K to Mid $600K ? between 975 sqft and 1300 sqft

The best unit currently for sale was 1280 sqft for 575K on the 17th Floor, NE Views. Maintenance for the unit is a little crazy: $965 per month, that includes Gas, Water, Amenities. Nevertheless, the amenities are bloody excellent, for example it's got a 1500 sqft all-year indoor pool, plus a ton of other stuff ? very impressive.

This is a 5+ phase development completion in about 5-years, but only the first two buildings currently for sale. Completion of the first two units is Jan 2007.

Number of units available in the first 2 buildings phase: ~120
Number of units sold in the first 2 buildings in "one week": ~70

My wife and I met a gentleman called Henry and he was very informative.

One final note: Let's try and not have a discussion about the area, it's obviously on the way up, which will hopefully benefit everyone.

Time for a glass of wine.

Posted on: 2005/10/8 1:21
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