Let me make a suggestion here. The chances of winning the "tax abatement" argument is slim to none as long as you continue to spout untruths. It is a fundamental mistake to suggest that PILOTs (which are not the same as tax abatements by the way) are the reason that the city has less revenue coming in. This is completely false.

The reason the PILOTs (Payment in Liu of Taxes) that are given to all of the new huge developers are so attractive to our politicians is that they bring more money into the city than conventional taxes do. The city keeps handing them out because they are a quick fix. They allow our mayor and our council people to keep cash coming in without making the hard choices.

As I've posted in two other places on this site, let's talk about PILOTs and abatements 101.

The "normal" property taxes we pay are divided three ways. The city gets the largest portion of the tax bill and the rest is divided up between the local school system and Hudson County. The city, however, can give people property tax breaks; and they can do this in one of two ways.

The first way is by granting a tax abatement. A tax abatement is a discount (usually 30%) given to people who make significant improvements to existing property or to small scale new construction. Abatements are a tool to encourage "the little guy" to improve their property, thus improving the overall area where that property is located. Tax abatements are generally for a term of 5 years and the moneys collected are divided amongst the three entities using the same percentages that are used for all property taxes in Jersey City.

The other way that the city can give a tax break is through a PILOT program. PILOTs are not taxes, however. They are Payments in Liu of Taxes.

PILOTs are handed out to large developers (such as Trump) within a redevelopment zone. Because they are not technically taxes, they do not have to be divided up between the city, the schools and the county. The city of Jersey City gets essentially all of the monies collected from PILOTs. So since the city is not having to "share" the money, even though the rate is substantially lower than the standard property tax rate, the city ends up with more money in the end. Let me put it another way. All of these people with PILOTs are getting a better tax rate (probably 20 to 30% less than most everyone else), but the city is getting to collect that entire amount of money which comes out to being more than what they get from the average tax payer because they don't have to share this revenue with the county or the schools.

Now in case it seems as if I'm all for PILOTs, I'm not; at least not in areas where there is no need to entice people to build. That is the intended use of PILOTs, but as we all know, that's not how they are being used by our politicians. What I've come to understand is that although the city is getting more money at the moment, we're all going to get screwed in the end because the county and the schools are going to have to raise their rates as there are too many people who are not paying into that portion of the system.

So I agree; our mayor and council people need to get some help with their addiction to PILOTs and begin to lead and make some hard choices. We cannot continue to live on borrowed money any longer. Doing so means that we are essentially living on borrowed time. It's all going to catch up to us as some point. It always does.

So please consider all of this when you are arguing that "tax abatements" are the reason for our financial woes. At the moment they are not. And when we all use these arguments, our representatives can simply brush us aside because it's obvious, at least in their rationale, that we have no idea what we are talking about and that they know what's best.

And one last thing, take a look at who votes for and against these PILOTs on a regular basis, and listen to the reasons that they vote the way that they do. Don't simply lump everyone together. It's laziness on our part to make broad statements that everyone is the same. When we do that, we are basically taking the easy way out. Doing so, in the end, is just as bad as what the people we want to throw out are doing. Really, it's essentially the same thing.

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Hmmm.....that's one way to look at it however I take another viewpoint on this. The taxes were increased because the price of everthing, including municipal government has risen over the last 20 or so years since the last tax increase.

All this tax increase should have been done years ago instead of the politicians trying to push it off for as long as they could...all hoping a future administration would have been dealing with it. I think that any of us that watched the municipal government over the years expected this to happen under the Cunningham administration...not that it would have been his fault...but it was due time and Cunningham did everything he could to push the tax increse off as long as he could. This time...Healy stood up and took accountability for all the past administrations that wouldn't do what needed to be done. It's time to pay the piper and pay the increased taxes. This topic was brought up at a Ward B candidate forum and all the candidates (except for one...who unfortunately lost...he was a realist so he had no shot at winning) danced away from the question as fast as they could.

He's not a moron or a crook and didn't mismanage the city's funds...on incompetentcy...the jury's still out. I think that he should resign but not for this...my opinion based on just how many abatements are still being given to waterfront property after he said no more waterfront abatements. Just because the Shore Club isn't right on the literal waterfront and is offset from it by a few feet does not make this "non-watefront" property. Clearly it is still waterfront property to many of us. Healy could have told Shore Club that they can build if they want to but no abatements were necessary in the waterfront area and if they wanted abatements, there's plenty of areas that they can move their project to and get an abatement...thinking JSQ or the Hackensack waterfront...some area that needs abatements given..not the Newport area.

If you want to blame Healy for the tax increase, that's your opinion but I must say that you sound like a certain lacky for a former mayoral candidate that I'll let remain nameless...how many of the readers can guess who that former candidate is and who the lacky is??? I'll bet that some of you can. (Jeopardy music playing now )

So please...CleanGov...take your diatribe back to GetNJ.com where it's considered a good deed to post such silliness. I'll also wager that if your guy had won, he'd be working his butt off trying to push this tax increase off for another administration to deal with and then, the increase would be larger than 18%.

Edited to add: You guys all better pay attention to what Mia and Yvonne have been saying for years...there's a revaluation down the road. All the pols will tell you that it's no time soon but...at some point it will happen. I'll wager that it'll be sooner than they're telling the citizens. When that reval does come, watch out!!!

Healey? Healy? Heely? Whatever.

Can he spell his own name correctly? I have seen him so drunk at times that I very much doubt that he could hold a pen let alone write his own name.

The fact of the matter is that his term in office has been a total and utter failure. The man should have the decency to resign.

He is redundant of any political vision for the future of the City.

Politically speaking he is an imbecile.

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Yet somehow he can spell his name correctly. Go figure.

Still cannot open the link, but did see the results as they were published after each vote on the website-

I would ask that both, the HPNA and FoHP push now to establish an interim dog run in one of the fenced tennis courts or one of the grassy quadrants AND push to have the city designate one of the grassy quadrants as pet free.

Using the park stinks, not because it needs renovation, but because of the decades old issues/conflicts with people and dogs.

Dealing with it now, will only make it easier later.

If a dog run is being built in VanVorst Park and two lawns have already been designated pet-free, the Hamilton Park community groups must take responsibility and address these issues now. Now and not put it off in a park renovation that could start next year or could start in five years.

I don't have a problem paying higher taxes. I agree that they need to rise. My object to Healy because despite strong demand for real estate along the waterfront he has continued to give out abatements to waterfront development depsite his campaign promises. The man seems to be a liar and an incompetent.

I agree that there is alot more money coming into JC, but that easy money is deceptive -- because it stopped the city from instituting a spending and hiring freeze on new employees and services. If the city council had done that, then they could have gotten a handle on operating costs.
But instead the city council went and started hiring hundreds of new cops and firefighters, while they continued subsidizing with tax abatements the construction of luxury waterfront towers.
Yeah, there are more affluent people who are moving downtown, but it does not increase the amount of money coming into the treasury.
They are either living tax-free in tax abated properties, or they are paying the same amount of money in property taxes that an elderly person on a fixed income pays for their house.
Even the real estate boom of the past years cannot cover the fixed costs like healthcare for government employees, or pension payments - which have gone up through the roof.
In the US, the cost of health insurance alone has gone up over 300 percent in the last decade, not to mention that people are living longer, and retired city employees collect pension for much longer than they did in the past because of increased life spans. So the City is paying alot more money per city employee than 10 years ago.
Healy, Schundler, Fulop all the same... it's just a question of do you vote for the crook from your 'hood?

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YES

by Pisces1979 on 2006/3/29 16:03:39
The cost of everything has gone up 20 percent in the past 10 years, so has the cost of running a government.


And the amount of money coming into JC has also gone up at least 20% and probably a LOT more.

Quote: Thankfully, Valerio of the Harsimus Cove Assn. is one of the best at getting notices out to the members once he receives them and HPNA as well. Well, as you see below, the email of notification is late by two days (at minimum)of notice from both United Water and from the Police Dept. This does not reflect well on the "quick response" outlined at this Monday's Mtg by the Police Dept. However, since this appears to be the SOP of United Water, I'm not surprised of this late notice. More money down the muddy drain. To contact the HCA, send an email to: HarsimusCoveAssociation-owner@yahoogroups.com -------- Original Message -------- Subject: United Water, Jersey City maintenance Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:41:31 -0800 (PST) From: Captain McDonough <jcpdeastdistrict@yahoo.com> To: east <jcpdeastdistrict@yahoo.com> Hello and hope all is well. Please read the following and advise all community group members, neighbors, family and friends. Regards. P.O. Dina Reilly From: John A. Hroncich, P.E., Operations Manager, United Water Jersey City On Monday, March 27, 2006 United Water, Jersey City maintenance crews will shut down the water supply aqueduct for the City of Jersey City to erform a detailed inspection of the 100-year old tunnel system. The queduct will be closed for about two weeks to allow engineering teams he opportunity to inspect the tunnel. Based on this, United Water will nsure its integrity and develop a plan to improve water quality and roperly maintain the aqueduct system. Arrangements with other water suppliers in the area (Newark and Passaic alley Water Commission) have been made to supply the City and its customers with water during the shutdown. You may experience some discolored water during the two weeks that the tunnel is shutdown for inspection. United Water apologizes for the temporary inconvenience this may impose but are confident that you support the predictive and reventive maintenance efforts. URS and the Jersey City Municipal Utilities Authority will be performing the tunnel inspections between March 28 and April 6, 2006. United Water ersey City will be providing confined space entry operations during this operation. In case of an emergency, United Water will notify local area Emergency Management Offices. United Water is asking all customers to conserve water during this two-week period. That means using water only for essential purposes such as taking quicker showers in the morning and washing only full loads of dishes and clothes at night. Uniter Water's goal is to have minimal, if any, discoloration. Should there be any discoloration, it poses no health threat, but can be aesthetically unpleasant. You should, however, let it run clear before washing clothes. Thank you for your patience and cooperation as United Water works to serve you better.

Impeach Healey and the JC council ? all of them should resign. They have failed to represent the people. They have completely mismanaged Jersey City. There is money coming into the city ? more than enough money ? Only fools would find themselves in the position that Healey and his cronies are in.

Healey is a drunken oaf and a buffoon.

If Healy resigns then who is going to be mayor?
Fulop? Lipsky?
I think that anyone else who takes the job will have to raise taxes 18 percent and/or cut services.
All politicians are sociopaths and thieves, it's genetic.
The cost of everything has gone up 20 percent in the past 10 years, so has the cost of running a government.
The 18 percent tax increase is the result of skyrocketing healtcare and pension costs of an aging city workforce, as well as 25 years of giving away tax abatements.
Not to mention you now have a bunch of new residents in the new luxury towers in Newport and Downtown who demand services, yet pay no money at all in taxes.
Of course the sensible thing to do would be to institute a spending freeze and institute a 1 Percent Income tax on those making more than 100K per year, but nobody is going to do that.
Also don't forget the state is cutting funding for schools, enviromental protection, public safety, in both Hudson County and Essex County, so Jersey City is not alone in this - at least we are not in Newark, where everything is really gonna downhill much faster than in JC.

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The Tax increase of 18% indicates that Healey has completely mismanaged the City funds. He is clearly incompetent and out of his depth and he is either a moron or a crook.

Should he do the decent thing and resign?

"We wouldn't want to hurt the poor flunky's self esteem by not leveling the playing field for him"


At the moment the only poor flunky we have in JC is the Mayor and his cronies.

Mayor Healy: Crooked or stupid which one is he?

Nobody plans an 18% tax hike, it is something that happens when those in charge are incompetent.

Maybe because:

The top 50% of tax payers already pay over 96% of all income taxes;

The top 5% of tax payers pay 53.8% of all income taxes;

And the top 1% of tax payers pay 33.7% of all income taxes.

See Also


I've got a better idea, why don't we just institute a maximum wage, say 30K, anything you earn over that goes to bring everyone else up to that same level and once that's achieved the rest goes to the government in taxes. This way the unemployed high school dropout makes the same amount as the doctor who worked his a$$ off and racked up a fortune in debt to put his way through med school. We wouldn't want to hurt the poor flunky's self esteem by not leveling the playing field for him.

Mayor's Action Bureau
201-547-4900

Phone them and ask is there any truth in the Mayor resigning?
IF our taxes go up 18% will he resign?

Healey has completely mismanaged the city funds. He is clearly incompetent and out of his depth and he should do the decent thing and resign.

All the money that is coming into the city and the taxes go up by that amount??!!!

Healey must be a moron or a crook.

For a family in JC 100k per year is barely middle class!
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I know you're baiting people, so I'll bite. How would that be equitable?

What about instituting a 1 percent income tax on people making over 100K a year?

Thanks Mayor Healy for managing the City's budget so ineffectively. If you weren't so buys giving out tax abatements on prime property, maybe our taxes would only be going up 10% or 15%.

Given your lack of leadership, I can guess I'd better prepare for another 20% hike in 2007.

Complaining is fine, more complaining is fine, but the complaints might be more effective if also done in letters to the Jersey Journal and by speaking before the City Council.

Send Letters to-

Letters to the Editor
Jersey Journal
30 Journal Square
Jersey City, NJ 07306
Fax ? (201) 653-1414
jjletters@jjournal.com

Include your telephone number for verification

The City Council meets the 1st and 3rd Wednesday of the month. To speak during the the Open Public Speaking portion of the meetings, contact the City Clerk a day in advance at (201) 547-5150. Get a group of friends together, speak on a specific issue before going out to Trivia Night or Jazz.... see your government in actions (or inaction).

As pointed out on a recent the thread, code enforcement could bring in much needed revenue along with making our city safer, healthier and cleaner:

Enforcement of- Building, Zoning, Health, Motor vehicle and Parking ordinances.

Obviously, we need a long term financial plan in place. Tax Abatements should be opened up and made transparent. The abatements may need to have shorter time frames, not be extended, not be transfered. The upfront PILOTS could be restricted to captial projects and not be used for general municipal operations (plugging budget deficits).

Unless you can find a JC version of Corey Booker, we have a long hard road ahead.

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't 'the beacon' being built up the block... nice, LMAO!

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Let's not forget the much reduced "tax rebate checks" . In my case that was an 8% tax increase. I expect that "gift" from the governor will totally disappear now in light of the gov's latest "NJ is broke" speech which will translate into a 13% tax increase for me + these other increases mentioned on thread.

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According to many old timers, in the darker days of Downtown ('70s-80s) it was common for people to walk away from their property because they could no longer afford the taxes. I've heard tell of many abandoned brownstones around Hamilton Park in those days.

Is it common for people to sell their property if they no longer can afford the taxes? If so, can you sue a realtor or a mortgage company that mislead you with estimated taxes when you closed on the property?

Can someone tell me again why it is better to own than rent?

Oh no, Woodsy, say it ain't so!

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And yet there will STILL be people calling for an abatement to build a Home Depot.

Don't forget that the 18% increase only refers to city taxes. This number does not include the increase in school taxs and the likely increase in county tax. Sucks to be a homeowner in a non-tax-abated property.

Hey, someone has to pay for the labor & talent fees for those powerpoint slides from the JCPD meeting on Monday!

From the Jersey Journal:

Jersey City taxpayers are looking at an 18 percent property tax hike.

With three months left in the fiscal year, the City Council is expected to vote tonight to adopt a $130.4 million budget that includes the increase.

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Now we have a proposed 18% increase in taxes which is partly to pay the benefits and pensions of these useless retarded slobs who work for Jersey City Council.

1. Fire the retarded slobs who work for the council. ? 40% of the employees at least.
2. TAX the corporations on the water front
3. Find other innovative ways of raising much needed money (see below)

Install cameras at traffic lights and fine anybody who jumps a red light ? they have automated cameras like these in other cities in the world ? like Dublin and London ? and they raise a small fortune in monies. Installation is cheap ? as there are companies that install and run the system for only a small % of the traffic fine. Also improves safety, etc.