Register now !    Login  
Main Menu
Who's Online
92 user(s) are online (83 user(s) are browsing Message Forum)

Members: 0
Guests: 92

more...


Forum Index


Board index » All Posts




Re: JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

mrrogers wrote:
How about an inner city rowing team to take on the suburban swells.


What a brilliant idea! of course the reservior is too small but the Hackensack is perfect. We've got fencing in JC now, so why not crew? As with all things, it needs a visionary who can write a grant application.

Oh yeah, the park: WHOOHOOO!!!

Posted on: 2007/2/15 22:51
 Top 


Re: Whitlock Cordage Interrupted?
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


Has anyone heard anything concerning the progress of Whitlock Mills? Last post quotes the developer that an effort would be made to start moving in people at the end of this calendar quarter.

I called their offices but only reached their voice mail.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 22:33
 Top 


Re: JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Home away from home
Home away from home


Wow Mr Healy has done more in the last week than he has in the last 24 months.The cynic in me says this is all related to the constant bad press he has gotten lately but i will take good news anyway i can.

How about an inner city rowing team to take on the suburban swells.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 22:19
 Top 


Re: JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


Now I have a place to practice my synchronized swimming.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 21:25
 Top 


Re: JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


It seems like the baseball field on 6'th St., the Roberto Clemente one is always empty. The big park in the hood by the driving ranges always has a few open fields too. If he actually did turn down 500 kids, that is a problem - I just don't understand all of the empty fields.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 21:24
 Top 


Re: JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Home away from home
Home away from home


Let's hope I'm wrong, and Healy isn't using this as a way to justify giving the Embankment the Heisman... Politics is politics people, victories exist in isolation, and are just as often a harbinger of bad news as good (if not more so).

Resized Image

Posted on: 2007/2/15 21:22
 Top 


Re: JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Newbie
Newbie


so now I have a place to sail

Posted on: 2007/2/15 21:18
"If its a lesson in love; watch out. I suffer from a very sexy learning disability."
 Top 


Re: JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


Quote:

Skadave wrote:
That's some passive aggressive sour grapes from the little league lobby.



seriously.

maybe we coulda lobbied to just pave it over instead....

sheesh

Posted on: 2007/2/15 21:10
 Top 


Re: JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Home away from home
Home away from home


Yeah great job people -- also thanks Mayor!

Love the idea of a "pier, canoe dock and an elevated jogging path that hugs the inside of the massive stone walls that surround the site."

Now the embankment!

Quote:

missa wrote:
and there was much rejoicing.

one down and an embankment to go!

Posted on: 2007/2/15 21:10
 Top 


Re: JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


That's some passive aggressive sour grapes from the little league lobby.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 21:05
 Top 


Re: JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Great news for the Heights. Hopefully they can find space for those baseball fields also but that definitely was not the right site for them.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 21:05
 Top 


Re: JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


YAYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!! YAYYYYYYY!!!!

Posted on: 2007/2/15 21:04
 Top 


Re: JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Home away from home
Home away from home


That's wonderful news. I'm actually stunned.






Great MPHG reference.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 20:59
"Someday a book will be written on how this city can be broke in the midst of all this development." ---Brewster

Oh, wait, there is one: The Jersey Sting.
 Top 


Re: JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


and there was much rejoicing.

one down and an embankment to go!

Posted on: 2007/2/15 20:42
 Top 


JJournal: Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space
Newbie
Newbie


Reservoir No. 3 will be preserved as open space

Ending years of debate, Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy declared today that Reservoir No.3 will be preserved for passive recreation.

"This thing has been debated for a long time, an issue that has endured through many administrations. But now the time is right to decide its future," said Healy.

The conceptual plan for the reservoir, on Summit Avenue in the Heights, includes a fishing pier, canoe dock and an elevated jogging path that hugs the inside of the massive stone walls that surround the site.

"This is a great day," said Steve Latham, president of the Jersey City Reservoir Preservation Alliance, a group that has fought for passive recreation at the site for years.

However, the news wasn't great for everybody.

Joseph Napolitano, executive director of the Babe Ruth League at Pershing Field, said he will wait and see if kids use the site before passing judgment.

"I don't know if kids will use it, but I will be watching," said Napolitano. "But what I do know is I turned down 500 kids last year for the league, and who knows where these kids went, maybe the streets."

Posted on: 2007/2/15 20:39
 Top 


Re: SHOT DEAD ON HEIGHTS STREET -- Neighbor: Durango pulled up, sped away
Home away from home
Home away from home


At least DeFazio is busy - The cops must be taking a 'let the crooks kill each other attitude' to a positive policing approach. It's cheap and needs no resources!

Posted on: 2007/2/15 14:23
My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
 Top 


Re: New Jersey Senate may seek tighter dual office holding ban
Home away from home
Home away from home


Dual office ban on public officials stalls in Senate

Jersey Journal - Thursday, February 15, 2007

TRENTON - A state Senate proposal to ban newly elected public officials from holding more than one elected office simultaneously was stalled last week with lawmakers grappling over when the proposal should go into effect and its outcome on November elections.

The Assembly included a ban on dual office holders as part of a bill passed on Jan. 29 to reform taxpayer-paid benefits for newly elected and appointed officials. The Assembly measure, if signed into law, would take effect Feb. 1, 2008.

That would allow Assembly members who currently hold more than one elected office - such as Assemblyman Brian Stack, who is also Union City mayor - to run for Senate this year and keep the other office.

But an amendment in the Senate to allow the ban to take effect immediately after being approved had the ban bogged down Feb. 5.

That would force Stack, who plans to run for the Senate against Majority Leader Bernard F. Kenny, D-Hoboken, to step down from his mayoral post if he were to win. Kenny hasn't announced his intentions.

Freshman Assemblyman Silverio "Sal" Vega was the lone lawmaker to vote against the Assembly version of the bill. Vega was appointed to both the Assembly and as mayor of West New York following his predecessor Albio Sires' successful bid for U.S. Congress. Sires previously held both titles.

"I have always been an advocate of bringing local experience to the state Legislature, and although the bill wouldn't prevent me from holding two positions, it would hurt others down the road, so I voted no," said Vega. "It should be the voters' choice."

A ban forcing newly elected officials from holding more than one office was good news to legislative incumbents looking to thwart challenges from local public officials.

The Senate amendment is being sponsored by longtime dual office holder Sharpe James, who less than a year ago was also mayor of Newark - the state's largest city - in addition to serving as a state senator.

"New Jersey, the Garden State, the second wealthiest state in America, is not brain-damaged to the point that we need one person to hold two elected offices. Hello!" James said.

Republicans want those who hold more than one elected office to choose one by January and resign from the other.

To do otherwise "will allow dual officeholders to maintain their grip on power into perpetuity," said Sen. Tom Kean Jr., R-Union.

Gov. Jon S. Corzine said he'd rather have some reform of dual-office holding than none at all.

"I don't think you have the votes to do it immediately," Corzine said. "I would rather have three-quarters of a loaf or 90 percent of the loaf than no addressing of the issue."

If the Senate adopted an immediate ban for newly elected officials, the Assembly would have to reconsider the change.

While 19 state legislators hold more than one elected office, a report last year by New Jersey Policy Perspective found 19 other public officials who hold both county and municipal office. The proposed bans would not affect them.

Staff writer Jarrett Renshaw contributed to this report.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 10:25
 Top 


Corzine's plan would subsidize auto insurers to lower rates in Jersey City and other urban areas
Home away from home
Home away from home


Corzine's plan would subsidize auto insurers to lower urban rates

Thursday, February 15, 2007
By JOE DONOHUE
NEWHOUSE NEWS SERVICE

The Corzine administration has proposed a plan to prevent big auto insurance rate increases for residents of Jersey City and other urban areas as New Jersey completes an effort to ease regulations and spur competition among insurers.

The plan would set aside a pool of money to subsidize auto insurers that write policies in cities, where risk is greater because of vandalism, theft and a higher rate of accidents.

It was drawn up because regulators feared urban rates would skyrocket now that they've abolished a 1983 law that set price caps for urban drivers at 35 percent above the state average, which prevented insurers from charging city drivers far more.

For example, a 35-year-old male living in Jersey City pays $1,118 for Allstate coverage - about 72 percent more than if he lived in rural Sussex County. In Pennsylvania, a similar driver in Philadelphia can pay as much as 350 percent more than if he lived in rural York County.

The question of how much urban drivers should pay - and whether suburban and rural drivers should pay higher rates to keep city rates lower - has been a political problem for decades in a state with the nation's highest average auto insurance rates.

Bayonne Mayor and state Sen. Joseph V. Doria Jr. said the 2003 reforms to deregulate auto insurance helped reduce the number of uninsured drivers by bringing more insurers into the state. He said those gains could be lost with higher urban rates.

"If the rates go through the ceiling and people can't afford to pay, you are just going to increase the number of uninsured motorists," Doria said.

Richard Stokes, lobbyist for the Property Casualty Insurers Association of America, said some insurance companies do support the proposal but far more have reservations.

"The less restrictions you have, the more you let the marketplace work," Stokes said.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 10:22
 Top 


SHOT DEAD ON HEIGHTS STREET -- Neighbor: Durango pulled up, sped away
Home away from home
Home away from home


SHOT DEAD ON HEIGHTS STREET
Neighbor: Durango pulled up, sped away

Thursday, February 15, 2007
By MICHAELANGELO CONTE
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

The fresh falling snow was stained with blood on a Jersey City Heights street corner where a man was fatally shot in the back before collapsing to the sidewalk in the early morning hours yesterday, officials said.

Ariel I. Cruz, 24, of Central Avenue near Congress Street, was fatally shot once in the rear portion of his hip at 12:37 a.m. on Waverly Street at Baldwin Avenue, Hudson County Prosecutor Edward DeFazio said.

Cruz, who is formerly of Bayonne, was on probation for a West New York drug conviction at the time he died and several bags of suspected marijuana were found on him after the shooting, DeFazio said. A 9 mm shell casing was found at the scene of the shooting.

One neighborhood resident saw the grisly aftermath of the shooting. "I heard a gunshot and I went to the window and I saw a guy and thought he was drunk because he was staggering," said the 31-year-old man. "He fell and got back up and then he fell against a car and slid off onto the ground. That was it."

The resident said after the victim collapsed, a gray Dodge Durango traveled east across Baldwin Avenue on Waverly Street to the spot where the victim lay.

"He stopped, rolled down his window and looked at (Cruz), then he drove off fast," the resident said. "I called 911 and two ambulances and about seven police cars came. He was unconscious when they got here."

Cruz was rushed to the Jersey City Medical Center and pronounced dead at 3:15 a.m., DeFazio said.

Homicide detectives found the victim's cell phone at the scene of the murder, as well as another cell phone. They are trying to determine who the second cell phone belongs too, DeFazio said.

"I'm really in pain but I believe in a God that will make justice," said Cruz's mother, Vera Cruz, last night. "We don't know what he was doing or who he was meeting."

Vera Cruz said her son suffered from mood swings and depression. She said he went to special schools and once spent two weeks in the hospital after repeatedly telling his teachers he was going to kill himself. She said she had dinner with him last night and gave him clothing and chocolate for Valentine's Day before he went out.

"He was bringing up old memories," she said of their conversation. "He said he was going to die. He was acting funny."

On April 2, 2003, Cruz, then of Avenue C in Bayonne, was arrested in West New York on drug charges after he was found with cigars rolled with marijuana, officials said.

By daylight, snow had obscured all traces of the deadly violence, but the prosecutor said homicide investigators have leads and the investigation is ongoing. Anyone with information is asked to call the Hudson County Prosecutor's Office's Homicide Squad at (201) 915-1345.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 10:03
 Top 


Re: 111 First Street - the teardown
Home away from home
Home away from home


"If the city really wanted distinguished architecture in its high rises, it should have pushed for that where they were actually building the high rises, not smack dab in the middle of a district with mid-rise warehouses rich in history."

Here's a suggestion for you - go to the Empire State Building's entrance on Fifth Avenue, look across the street, and tell me what you see. Directly across the street is a set of midrise buildings, older than the Empire State Building. The ESB stands a massive 1250 feet tall across from these midrise buildings (ie there is a mix of buildings in the immediate vicinity of the ESB), yet is regarded by many as the greatest skyscraper of the 20th Century.

So why should we not build a single skyscraper across from a few midrise buildings (also keep in mind that the Athena Tower was topped off today and it stands 33 stories tall right across the street from 111 First). We already are preserving 140 & 150 Bay Street. Good architecture involves diversity in building heights, shapes, and sizes, so long as they form a visual unification of an area. 111 First will have at least one setback at the height of the original facade, which will help it fit in with the surrounding warehouses.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 4:07
 Top 


Re: 111 First Street - the teardown
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
Poor injc. He loves to sling around insults but can't take a little snark. Poor little baby. He seems to think that 3 60 story towers in the middle of a warehouse district would be a good contrast with the Powerhouse, yet claims that others know nothing about architecture. Funny guy!

Joshua


Get back to me when you learn who Koolhaas is.

Every time a 111 First thread comes up, up pop two shills - Joshua Parkhurst and DanL.

Funny guys.

L is for losers.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 3:30
 Top 


Re: 111 First Street - the teardown
Home away from home
Home away from home


Poor injc. He loves to sling around insults but can't take a little snark. Poor little baby. He seems to think that 3 60 story towers in the middle of a warehouse district would be a good contrast with the Powerhouse, yet claims that others know nothing about architecture. Funny guy!

Anyway, having dispensed with the whining, let's get to the point. DanL, alb and others have done a fine job with respect to the significance of 111. Ultimately, these are subjective assessments. But considering that a) SHPO designated it as eligible, b) the Historic Preservation Commission unanimously voted for it as part of a historic district, and c) Goldman's own consultant conceded that 111 had historic value, except that it had been "impaired" by its deterioration, then I think that those of us on the side of "historic" are in good company. Side note: Goldman's consultant sent the whole gallery into a fit of hysterical laughter when he tried to justify not designating 111 as historic based on the removal of the smokestack, which Goldman had insisted had to be removed just weeks before the hearing.

Ian says that we shouldn't declare every other building historic. No one is doing so. Jersey City has only 4 historic districts, and has never taken action to protect any other historic resources in its city, despite a long list of eligible sites.

Also, Ian says that not every warehouse is historic. I agree. The historic significance of 111 has been well documented by others above. One other thing to add. The building was the first of its kind in the district in that it was the first structure built for a national business. Prior to 111, all the buildings in the district were small independently owned metal works shops, woodworking shops, foundries, etc (only one such building is left, the Juan Ribon machine shop). The American Screw Company, later replaced by Lorillard was the first large business to establish its presence. Other companies followed, such as the A&P and Butler Brothers, which led to the development of industry on Jersey City's waterfront.

On top of that, even if one building, by itself, does not carry significant historic value, such a building can be an important contributor as part of a larger district. Not every warehouse in Soho or Tribeca is so architecturally distinguished or so rich in history to warrant protection on its own, but the neighborhoods as a whole do. In any event, that's really not important in this case, since 111 merited protection on its own.

Like Ian, I too would like to see the waterfront develop. That's what the Powerhouse Arts District redevelopment plan did. It took several warehouses that were underutilized and neglected by their owners. It upzoned the property so that these owners could make millions of dollars so long as they were willing to abide by the very reasonable conditions asked of them. The plan, which was the result of years of deliberation and planning between many different constituencies, in fact was working quite well.

The J. Leo Cooke warehouse was as much as, if not more of, an "eyesore" and "pile of bricks" than 111 (with less historic value). Yet it was restored according to historic standard, and the result was a stunning combination of old and new, with the apartments selling immediately.

Maybe the new 111 will be an architectural wonder. I do know people who, even though they were opposed to the settlement, felt that the selection of Koolhaas was good, because he has a streak of independence and is not simply a prestigious "developer's architect." Again, over the past 20 years, in Newport and, just closer, in the Hudson Exchange District, we have seen plenty of 30 story towers go up. If the city really wanted distinguished architecture in its high rises, it should have pushed for that where they were actually building the high rises, not smack dab in the middle of a district with mid-rise warehouses rich in history.

Joshua

Posted on: 2007/2/15 2:42
 Top 


Re: Pulaski Skyway replacement being designed
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

ansky wrote:
The cones and barricades will go up next week (limiting the entire skyway to 1 lane) and the project will be completed by 2095.


Well I guess most of won't be at the ribbon cutting since we'll be ummm, dead!

Posted on: 2007/2/15 2:19
 Top 


Re: Pulaski Skyway replacement being designed
Home away from home
Home away from home


The cones and barricades will go up next week (limiting the entire skyway to 1 lane) and the project will be completed by 2095.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 1:58
 Top 


Re: Pulaski Skyway replacement being designed
Home away from home
Home away from home


It would best to remediate the existing structure for integrity and keep it as a low volume entry point into Jersey City. If the bridge is expanded it means more freight and more vehicle traffic, while destroying an arguably beautiful piece of industrialist era architecture.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 1:31
 Top 


Re: 111 First Street - the teardown
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

DanL wrote:
The warehouse district had been previously declared eligible for historic designation by the state.


I respect the property rights argument, and I think the best outcome would have been if someone had bought out Goldman.

Also: I don't necessarily object to whatever it is that Koolhaas is going to do. I'm the only one around who likes Grove Pointe. If I like Grove Pointe, then I suppose I'll love Koolhaas Pointe.

But one issue here is that all the property owners in the historic-looking area (whether they're in the official zone or not) may have a property-ownership-type stake in whether the district continues to look cool and old and ends up attracting a bunch of cool shops and restaurants.

My guess is that none of them really want to be in an officially designated zone, because that would limit appraisers' appraisal of the value of their property and hence their ability to get bank loans today or raise cash today through other means.

On the other hand, they all have a stake in the other owners informally acting to keep the area looking cool and historic, because a cool, historic-looking area probably has a lot more potential to hold its value over the long run than, for example, the horrible, brutal, 1970s-ish redevelopment-type buildings in Newark do.

Think about it: the former chairman of Goldman Sachs is governor of New Jersey. But even he can't get Goldman Sachs to really move to Jersey City, because there just any place for the Goldman Sachs people to eat here.

Say all of the waterfront buildings together are worth $25 billion to $50 billion today. (Please give me a better estimate if you know one.) If they really were valued like Manhattan properties, then they'd be worth 2 or 3 times as much. So, in just 10 or 15 years, simply creating the illusion that the Jersey City is cool and has nice restaurants could make the property owners at least $25 billion on top of regular price growth.

Now, that money would be split a lot of ways, but, if I had a chance to split $25 billion just by creating the temporary illusion that the Gold Coast was as nice a place to live and work as Battery Park City, I wouldn't just spiff up the Lorillard Building. I'd hire actors to go open fake restaurants and pretend to enjoy the food, if that's what it took to overcome the "where on earth do you eat over there" factor.

Posted on: 2007/2/15 0:12
 Top 


Re: 111 First Street - the teardown
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

jcwalkingman wrote:
....


well said jcwalkingman, pretty much in parallel with my thoughts.

Posted on: 2007/2/14 23:50
 Top 


Re: 111 First Street - the teardown
Home away from home
Home away from home


btone88 wrote:
Quote:
But you lost the architecture argument so you resort to calling me names.

He lost? Why, because he failed to adequately respond to this infantile gem:
Quote:
Joshua, do you know ANYTHING about architecture?


[/quote]

No, because he does not know who Koolhaas (Koolhaus to him) is and he thinks his architecture would better fit with Newport's.

And when he loses an argument on merit, he calls people apologists and shills, a 6th grade namecalling tactic.

Posted on: 2007/2/14 23:20
 Top 


Re: 111 First Street - the teardown
Home away from home
Home away from home


The warehouse district had been previously declared eligible for historic designation by the state.

The most recent Jersey City Master Plan, the document that guides land use, zoning, development/redevelopment resulting from study and public process by City Planning, consultants, property owners and approved by the Planning Board and City Council called for the creation of the historic district.

There are two national landmarks in the district, 150 Bay St ? A & P Warehouse and the H & M Powerhouse.

The area had been previously zoned light industrial / warehouse. An overlay zoning called WALDO that permitted 50% market rate 50% artist live and work space failed to spur development. This area was never targeted for skyscrapers, or even high rises (more than eight stories).

A redevelopment plan to create an arts and entertainment district that called for the creation of a historic district was based on a study that included input from all stakeholders including property owners, preservationists, educational organizations, nearby residents, arts groups, areas of municipal government and a national consulting organization was unanimously passed four times by the City Council which included Mayor Healy, Council President Vega, Councilmen Brennan, Gaughan and Lipski and Councilwoman Richardson. A notable key ingredient identified as essential to the plan?s success would be leadership from the top of Jersey City government to guide and fight off subsequent development pressures. This plan, PAD already included compromises necessary for approval including those amenable to most developers.

As posted on this thread and else where, the plan was designed to benefit the city as a whole not just one area or the resident artists. While some artists bought into this idea, many were turned off by the commercialization of the area.

The settlement with the owner of 110 / 111 First Street certainly does not appear to meet the definition of settlement. Many believe the settlement was used to break down the zoning laws of Jersey City and create precedent for other up-zoning throughout the city in conflict with the master plan.

Keep in mind the public redevelopment process resulted in designating this area a historic district and a non-public process tore it apart without checks and balance or ensuring compliance with redevelopment law.

With regards to those who believe that the property owner has the right to build what they want to build on their property, if you at least except some form of land use law, the owner of 111 First St. never had ?as right? the zoning to build a skyscraper. There are many things that I am sure people would not want built on that site. The changes to the redevelopment plan to meet the terms of the negotiated legal settlement only now give this as right.

While I can understand that there are members of the public who like the idea of a skyscraper designed by a ?world class? architect (if his design is what is ultimately constructed) to replace a historic structure (by current accepted standards), while that benefits of the arts and entertainment district in historic buildings can be objectively made, the aesthetics are subjective. However, what I do not understand is accepting the city?s end run around the legal process and land use law to do so. At some point, the problems of Jersey City may affect you directly.

You can view Civic JC?s objection to the 111 legal settlement here - Powerhouse Arts District to be Gutted by Legal Settlment

Posted on: 2007/2/14 22:54
 Top 


Re: Pulaski Skyway replacement being designed
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


Maybe they can do something with it like they did in the Florida Keys with all of the old bridges. Most are still intact and are used as pedestrian and bike paths as well as fishing launches.

Granted, you don't want to be fishing in the Hackensack River, but it would be a cool space.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Mile_Bridge


(Useless trivia: The scene in True Lies where they blow up the bridge is real - they're blowing up a chunk of the "old" Seven Mile Bridge between Vaca Key and Marathon)

Posted on: 2007/2/14 22:26
 Top 



TopTop
« 1 ... 7664 7665 7666 (7667) 7668 7669 7670 ... 7912 »






Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!



LicenseInformation | AboutUs | PrivacyPolicy | Faq | Contact


JERSEY CITY LIST - News & Reviews - Jersey City, NJ - Copyright 2004 - 2017