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Re: Police Chief Robert Troy says -- "Stevie...has exhibited serious incompetence"
Home away from home
Home away from home


I smell... BOOMERANG !

Now, we have to come up with an appropriate "rock star" name:

Stevie "Ray" Fulop
Stevie "Nicks and his Hot Licks" Fulop
Little Stevie Fulop
Stevie "The 8th Wonder of JC" Fulop
Stevie's "House of Fallujah" Fulop

Really, I think the Pole-Lease Chief messed up here. Robert "Helen of" Troy better watch his tongue, or Stevie "Legend of Rock" Fulop will eat his lunch.

-M


P.S. Those degenerates from the Beefheart thread will likely come up with better names, so... brace yourself.





Posted on: 2006/2/5 18:30
I cook with wine, sometimes I even add it to the food.
W. C. Fields
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Re: Where is Bergen Hill?
Home away from home
Home away from home


Bergen Hill is just a few blocks south of the old Medical Center that is being rehabbed into pricey condos. There are a lot of undervalued brick rowhouses in area that date back to 1880s. There is a strong coalition of neighborhood associations called Bergen Communities United that are working up a "master plan" for the entire area. In addition, the Whitlock Cordage factory now known as WHitlock Mills loft and apartment rentals will be opening in March and is bound to have a positive affect for the area too.

Posted on: 2006/2/5 17:48
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Re: Where is Bergen Hill?
Home away from home
Home away from home


There are a few grand Victorians in the area on Summit. At the foot of Summit at Grand is an odd shaped building called Library Hall which was once JC City Hall. I would be on my guard walking around the area and don't go alone. Stay off Cornelison.
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Posted on: 2006/2/5 10:37
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Where is Bergen Hill?
Newbie
Newbie


To anyone and everyone-

I'd like to know what streets are considered Bergen Hill and where is it exactly? Is it safe to walk around there? Is there anything about the area that is worth exploring, such as, any landmarks or houses with great architecture? I heard it is one of the oldest areas in Jersey City. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

Posted on: 2006/2/4 22:47
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Re: Police Chief Robert Troy says -- "Stevie...has exhibited serious incompetence"
Home away from home
Home away from home


So Troy calls an elected City Councilman "Stevie"... what, is our police chief 14 years old? Could you imagine Councilman Fulop referring to Try as "Robbie"??

That should tell you all you need to know as far as who's fighting the good fight here...

Posted on: 2006/2/4 21:35
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Re: Police Chief Robert Troy says -- "Stevie...has exhibited serious incompetence"
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk


Troy's reaction reminds me of the North Korean Government's (or any other dicatorship's) reaction when the U.S. criticizes it for human rights abuses--disproportionate, attack the messenger, and generally act as if the criticism is outrageous. A tired rhetorical device the use of which is perhaps emblematic of our disfunctional democracy in this city. Jersey City government is an "old boys network" unaccustomed to criticism and accountability. Fulop is changing this little by little. Its courageous.

Posted on: 2006/2/4 19:58
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Police Chief Robert Troy says -- "Stevie...has exhibited serious incompetence"
Home away from home
Home away from home


Ricardo Kaulessar - Jersey City Reporter 02/03/2006
--------------------------------------------------------

Stevie...has exhibited serious incompetence'

Police chief and councilman trade barbs over crime rise

FACING THE PEOPLE – Troy (left) speaks during a community meeting last week at the Mary McLeod Bethune Life Center. Standing to his right is resident and community activist Virginia Miller.
After Councilman Steven Fulop called for Police Chief Robert Troy to resign two weeks ago in the wake of Jersey City's rising murder rate, Troy responded to the public with a three-page letter last week, and blasted Fulop in an interview.

"As a public servant, Stevie Fulop has exhibited serious incompetence," Troy said last week. "I say that because he offers nothing as far as solutions go. He has never once in his short tenure as a junior councilman called this office."

In his letter to the public, Troy complained that Fulop's comments "not only undermine the public's confidence in the Police Department, but also negatively affect the morale of the men and women who comprise the Jersey City Police Department."

Fulop had complained about Jersey City's 39 homicides last year, a 20-year record, and a rise in neighborhood violence.

Troy said that Fulop should have called his office if he was concerned, like Ward C Councilman Steve Lipski did recently.

Troy added, "Stevie grandstands, he embarrasses himself in front of the rest of the council."

Troy pointed out a number of accomplishments under his leadership, such the city's gun buy-back program that brought in 900 guns from the public, the success of the Street Crimes Unit, and various crime sweep operations cracking down on sexual predators, deadbeat landlords and training seniors to protect themselves.

Troy defends record

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Troy is expected to retire sometime this year, but said he will not step down right now. He has been on the force for 25 years as of March 1. He has done 14 years of patrol and has been the commander of the department's Bureau of Criminal Investigations before his appointment as police chief in November 2004.

In his year and a half as chief, Troy targeted the growing menace of gangs and drugs within the city, with the JCPD Street Crimes Unit. The unit made over 3,200 drug-related arrests and approximately 290 gang-related arrests in the past 15 months.

Troy did agree with Fulop that the police chief had to be made accountable for the city's crime problem and there should be accountability on all levels. But Troy shot back at Fulop's lack of accountability in the matter.

"If Stevie applied that same accountability procedure to himself, he would remove himself from the council and do the taxpayers a favor," said Troy.

Fulop responds

Fulop responded to Troy's comments last week saying that he has called Troy's office a number of times but has not gotten a response back. He referred to his call for Troy's resignation as a "last resort" in dealing with a dire situation.

He also said that the murder rate wasn't the only reason for his comments.

"I believe he is making excuses," Fulop said. "There is an increase in crime everywhere, not just homicides, but also burglaries, rapes, robberies. When he was sworn as chief, he said, 'You can hold me accountable.' "

Fulop also claimed that his call for Troy's job has had an effect, as a number of plainclothes officers have been returned to walking posts in dangerous parts of the city.

Fulop also wrote a letter to the newspaper about the issue.

"To me," Fulop wrote, "our poor performance not only jeopardizes the safety of our residents, it jeopardizes pro-perty value, and it jeopardizes our standing in the region. Now, if we agree that there is an increase in crime, which I think is fairly difficult to dispute, then the question that needs to be addressed is why, and who is accountable?"

He opined: "Sometimes you have to rattle the cage to get results."

Troy at community meeting

Blunt and plainspoken, Chief Troy has preferred in most cases to shun the limelight, except when to announce a tragic murder or a job well done by his fellow police officers. But with Fulop's call for him to resign, the Christmas Day deaths of JCPD officers Shawn Carson and Robert Nguyen in an accident in which they drove off a draw bridge, Troy has had to contend with being in the public eye more.

Troy, along with Mayor Jerramiah Healy and a number of police personnel, appeared Thursday at a community meeting organized by Ward F City Councilwoman Viola Richardson where he answered questions and spoke on the state of crime in the city.

SIDEBAR

DOT criticizes accident investigation; Troy responds

Jersey City Police Chief Robert Troy responded last week to a recent report by the NJ Department of Transportation regarding their investigation of the accident Christmas Day on the Lincoln Highway Bridge that claimed the lives of Police Officers Shawn Carson, 40, and Robert Nguyen, 30.

Carson and Nguyen were traveling back to Jersey City the night of Dec. 25 after delivering flares on the Lincoln Highway Bridge, which connects Jersey City and Kearny. They were not aware that the bridge was up and the warning lights were out, and their Emergency Services Unit vehicle plunged into the Hackensack River.

There have been various theories as to why the accident occurred. It has been said that the police officers on the bridge were distracted by a false report of a civilian robbery, which diverted their attention from halting their vehicle in time. Another theory states that the officers were not informed that the bridge was up.

A 19-page report on the accident was released by the Department of Transportation, along with an eight-page report on the improvements needed for the bridge, on Jan. 27. It raised questions such as how Jersey City police officers who were already on the bridge, Michael Scarpa and Jane Louf, could not have been aware that the bridge was up, and why the two bridge operators on duty that night, Kenneth Cordano and Ali Alexandarane, were tested for drugs and alcohol when Scarpa and Louf were not.

The report also found that Cordano and Alexandarane were not in any way negligent on duty nor responsible for the accident that claimed the lives of two officers.

But the report criticized the JCPD for conducting an investigation that pressed the bridge operators to give answers "they wanted to hear," rather than recounting what actually happened that night, and rushing them to sign off on their statements without allowing them to read them beforehand.

Last week, Troy said the reason officers Scarpa and Louf were not tested for drugs and alcohol was because he and police officials determined that night that they did not need to be tested because they were not the "ones who raised the bridge."

Troy also said that in their assessment of the accident, the DOT was looking to "divert responsibility" and all the facts will come out early this week when the JCPD announces the results of their long-awaited investigation.

"We're going to lay out the truth, no matter where that road takes us," said Troy. "If the road takes us where we need to be critical of ours, then so be it."

Troy took issue with a suggestion in the DOT report that the JCPD investigators, led by Lt. Mike Kelly of the Major Cases Unit, were too harsh on the operators. He commented sarcastically that it "just breaks my heart."

"The investigators are some of the best in [Hudson] county and they just happen to be Jersey City police officers," said Troy. "We're more concerned about getting to the truth than hurting their feelings." - RK

Ricardo Kaulessar can be reached at rkaulessar@hudsonreporter.com



Posted on: 2006/2/4 17:54
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
Home away from home
Home away from home


You couldnt be more wrong, but thanks for the input. If underaged yuppy kids are caught drinking in hoboken they would also be arrested. the drinking age is 21. These underage kids should be doing something called studying or other constructive behavior( working part time etc). A majority of these kids will not get a further education after college and worse cannnot speak proper english and waste our tax $ on schooling them. the bonus for the tax payer is a large percentage of these kids parents get state aid which is also paid for by us.

ther is a direct link between quality of life crimes and more violent crimes. If you are new to the country please look up this name. Rudy Guiliani. He proved every one of your points wrong.

In America, many of us own houses and take great pride in our property. All of these things you mention deteriorate a neighborhood and the properties we own.

By the way, these kids are drinking on their landlords steps, not their own steps.

You left Communist Russia because it was a police state but when you left you forgot to leave behind your extreme socialist views. Before you came to America you should have done your research better. There are several countries that seem to be a better fit for you. Canada and France come to mind. You should check them out when you get the chance. America is the land of opportunity, not the land of excuses and handouts. with your attitude and beliefs you will never grasp the capitalist concept.

Also what's your point with the muslim kids, is that somehow our fault? Please tell me your blaming the muslim parents.Quote:

Pisces1979 wrote:
Oy Vey!
...I think there is an inherant double standard...when poor kids drink and do drugs it's considered a crime...but when middle class kids do it's called nightlife?
... I do see the police walking around from time to time, but doing "a sweep" of a block is going to just cause resentment and retalition in the short term, and is going to make it impossible in the long term to get people to talk to the police.
I see people with stop snitching t-shirts all the time...The real horror of the ghetto is someone who will shoot you and then tell on you, forget that, that is why my family left russia to get away from police state bullsh---t like that.
.... there is a nationwide shortage of police officers, so it would be much better to start a "police explorer" program so that the gangsta kids willl have something better to do with there time. Who knows, they might actucually like become police officers themselves, after interning with the police. I think it is much better in the long term to have police officers who come from the community, versuses some recruit from morris county who is going to stay on the force only 1 - 3 years until he is recruited back again in some 100K per year police officer job in morris county somwhere.
...Honestly there is very little to do in Jersey City if you are under 21. ...Why should the police be told to go harass and arrest kids drinking beer on the front steps of there building, when those kids are over 18, and everywhere else in the world they can go out down to the pub and hang out with there friends?
While it is perfectly acceptable for some trader from goldman sachs who has just spent the day trading stocks based upon the raping of the resources of the third world to go and get blind drunk? Why is a drunk suit winked at, while a black 20 year old drinking a beer considered a menace? Especially for these muslim kids in the neighborhood are caught between fundamentalist Islamic parents, racist society, lack of decent jobs (I.E. Factory UNION jobs, not fast food).
...Also, it is not fair for people under 21 to have no safe venue to play music indoors and dance...and the only place to go is outside, which has banned boomboxes.
... If anything the police should be focusing on anti-social behavior rather than breaking silly rules, like no boomboxes or drinking public. I mean where are alot of these kids going to go? They are stuck between overcrowded apartments, and the streets.
If anything the police need to focus on Drunk and reckless Driving.... I think this is the biggest problem in New Jersey right now. Drunk Driving is still winked at all levels of society, and there definatly needs to be a year round crackdown on reckless and drunk drivers, not just on the holidays.

Posted on: 2006/2/4 10:15
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
Home away from home
Home away from home


I received a copy of the letter from the City Clerk earlier this week. Since it is hard copy, I have scanned it, but images cannot be uploaded to jclist. If anyone has webspace that they could post it to and link to, I could email it.

The letter only contains marginally more content then the press release.

The city consensus is that Councilman Fulop was looking to take credit for forcing Police Chief Troy out when he is due to retire during departmental buyouts since the chief has 25 years on the force. I now wonder if Fulop picked a fight with the wrong guy and Troy stay will longer.


Posted on: 2006/2/4 9:18
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


glx, i didn't mean to sound upset/demanding. my original message had fallen off the main page and i just wanted to bump it to have it addressed. i've asked this question before to others. and as of yet i've never really received a legit answer.

sorry if it read that way steve.

Posted on: 2006/2/4 8:54
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


Quote:

ccitizen wrote:
i want an answer on this.


Calm down. You sent your first message at almost 5pm, and your next one at 5am the next morning. People are busy and not everyone sits on jclist 24/7, especially someone as busy as the Councilman I'm sure. I think you could've waited a little more than 12 hours before demanding an answer...


Posted on: 2006/2/4 7:19
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
Newbie
Newbie


I think for the chief to make EXUSES for our crime shows his lack of leadership. Troy needs to step DOWN, I can't believe they would let a Chief in charge of safety of one of the largest cities in NJ, that does nothing but makes EXUSES in public (weak)! Come on now, did this guy even graduate from the highschool or the even the police academy??

Posted on: 2006/2/4 1:48
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk


No Steve,

Thank you for trying to do the job you were elected to do. It's refreshing to know your not just collecting a paycheck. Keep up the good work... We are all behind you!



Posted on: 2006/2/3 16:09
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Newbie
Newbie


Just stepping in to defend my position, here. I'm not "so against pit bulls", and yes, I have seen the "Dog Whisperer" program. Enjoyed it.

I fully agree, Valkin, in regards to the responsibility that humans need to have, in controlling/training their dogs, and maintaining pack order - ie keeping the dog, whatever the breed, in the submissive role. I'm a huge believer in this - I keep my dogs on leash and under control at all times, and do everything that I can to avoid confrontational situations with other dogs. If only every dog owner felt the same way, there wouldn't be problems.

As far as training pit bulls is concerned, I'm all for it. There are, however, dogs that even the strongest levels of training cannot effect entirely - generations of breeding for the purpose of fighting can't be overcome. Just as some border collies can't help but run circles around trees, some labs can't resist the temptation to jump into lakes, and most sighthounds will chase a squirrel right into traffic if given the chance, there are some pit bulls that cannot be broken of "gameness" - the drive to fight other dogs. Temperament is both hereditary and learned - a truth widely understood among knowledgeable dog breeders, researchers and behaviorists.

I love dogs - all breeds. I am stringently against breed-specific legislation. As I've said, I've known wonderful pit bulls, and pain in the butt pit bulls - just as with any other breed. But the matter of fighting lineage, along with jaw strength and lack of warning - these are traits that require a knowledgeable and strong leadership on the part of the owner. These dogs can be wonderful, but many pit bulls aren't just for anyone.

Posted on: 2006/2/3 15:51
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


Ccitizen-
I PMed you on the side with contact detail.

As a note, sometimes I recognize my choice of wording could be better in these posts, but I always only provide information once the police tell that it is clear and it is safe to explain. So in the instances that you ask for specific block information during a month, as is the case here, I will need to circle back with them and get their ok as always.

In the case that you have a future concern, Police Captain McDonough and I are at most community meetings

Have a great weekend
Steven Fulop

Posted on: 2006/2/3 15:32
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Newbie
Newbie


for those of you so against pit bulls, I suggest that you watch the "Dog Whisperer" on the National Geographic Channel and see what Ceasar Milan does.

Pit bulls are not "killer" dogs. There are dog owners that irresponsibly train the dog in negative ways to constantly get an attack response out of the dog for the purpose of fighting. If the dog were trained and reinforced in positive ways, this response wouldn't occur. If people would be responsible, keeping their animals on leashes and keeping them in a calm, submissive state, attacks wouldn't occur.

Dogs are social and hierarchical animals where there's a pack leader (which should be the human when interacting with us) and followers. There's a lot that we humans can do to keep dogs in a calm, submissive state. It is up to the humans to rehabilitate the dog and it's up to the humans to reinforce a submissive state. Killing a pit bull because *maybe* he'll attack someone isn't the answer.

Posted on: 2006/2/3 14:26
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Newbie
Newbie


Keep in mind that the first site you posted is a commercial site, part of whose purpose is to help people find dog breeders - naturally, with client links of pit bull breeders, they just might skip over the problems inherent in the breed. As well, I can't tell you how many people I've run into who speak up for pit bulls in much the way the second link you've provided does - even as far as calling informed, concerned folks (many of whom are involved in animal rescue, adoption and temperament testing) "uninformed", "overreactive" and "ignorant". However, notice how, in the site's articles, little mention is made of the pit bull's jaw strength, and lack of warning before the bite.

As I've said so many times about this matter, there are two sides to the situation. Just as with any breed, there are great pit bulls - wonderful animals who are beautifully socialized and a dream with people and other animals. Unfortunately, there are pit bulls who are maladjusted, and a danger to other animals - and at times to other people, as well. This truth applies to ALL breeds, not just the pit bull. But, taking into consideration the two truths I brought up before - jaw strength and characteristic lack of warning - the possibility of damage is much worse when a pit bull's involved.

Sorry to call into question the sites you've posted, but my involvement in animal rescue, as well as contacts with breed rescue coordinators (two of whom are actually directly involved with pit bull rescue) gives me a different take on the matter. When folks who are deeply and emotionally connected to the breed admit openly that such faults exist, well, I'm not one to argue.

Posted on: 2006/2/3 13:56
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Newbie
Newbie


While I am not a pit bull owner, I am a dog person - regardless of breed. These dogs are just the current "evil" dog - previously it had been rotties, dobies and GSDs.

It is terribly unfair to lump those dogs who are obviously bad representations of the breed in with the many good representations of this breed.

According to many sources across the Web, human aggression is not a tolerable trait in pit bull type breeds. It was not tolerable with the dogmen of old who fought these dogs and it certainly should not be tolerable today.

Dog aggression and human aggression are two seperate entities and one should not be linked to the other. Just because a dog wants to eat another dog does not mean it will lead to said dog biting a person.

Dog aggression can be managed. I know, I do it every single day with our 7 y/o JRT/spaniel mix. He positively hates other dogs. He is extremely people friendly, however.

It is true that pit bulls are getting more media attention right now, but again, they're just the devil dog of the current time. There is no reason to rush out and ban these animals with fear-based bans like Denver has done.

What needs to occur is dog owners, in general, need to be more responsible for their animals. They need to know when and where their dog is at all times and keep them maintained, attend proper obedience classes and be responsible for their animal.

If their dog shows signs of human aggression, regardless of breed, it should be seen by a canine behavioralist and checked by a vet to make sure their are no underlying causes. If it continues to worsen/cannot be managed, the dog should be humanely euthanized.

If it is a shelter dog, temperment testing is definately the way to go. Properly screened homes and euthanization of all dogs, pit bulls or otherwise, that are not of sound temperment.

It's called responsibility and those who don't want to take it should not own a dog.

Posted on: 2006/2/3 12:55
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


... I see people around Journal Square who are running there pitbulls off the leash, and training the dogs to be extra-agressive. That bothers me because one day someone is gonna get mauled. Especially since many owners of pitbulls refuse to get their dog neutred, because of their own machismo, and the belief that neutering a dog makes it less agressive.
... If there was a law mandating that all pitbulls in JC had be neutered and on a leash, then the dogs would be less dangerous....
....If you ban pitbulls outright, then people are just going to get rottweiler dogs or some other breed of fighting dog.

Posted on: 2006/2/3 10:44
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


i want an answer on this.

Posted on: 2006/2/3 5:32
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Home away from home
Home away from home


Jersey city (we) are giving money and land for this place which mostly used for pit bull placement - 80%+!

Jersey City is getting over run with these killers -- There will be a law suit one of these days -- worse there will be a horrible attack on someone!

http://www.theunexpectedpitbull.com/donate.html
-------------------------------------------

Pit bull apologists, wake up
by C.W. Nevius - San Francisco Chronicle

Eighty-eight year old Mabel Wong was still in critical condition in John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek on Monday. She's been there since a week ago last Saturday, battling for her life, after a horrible mauling by a neighbor's pit bull near her Concord home.

In the aftermath, people wondered how it could happen. What did this little elderly lady do to trigger such an attack? The answer is simple and blunt. Nothing.

"This lady had interacted with this dog hundreds of times,'' said Lt. Abe Gamez of Contra Costa Animal Services. "She was just trying to get from one place to another.''

Whenever there is an account of a mauling by a pit bull, there is a howl of protest from those who love the breed. There are no bad dogs, just bad owners, they say. Or they ask how the media reporting the incident knew the dog was a pit bull. Pit bulls, they insist, are no more inherently dangerous than any other breed of dog.

That's not true.

"What I usually say is that it is not uncommon to spend thousands of dollars breeding a good hunting dog,'' says Gamez. "With a good hunting dog, that is not something you teach -- he's got it in his genes. The pit bull is bred for fighting.''

"You can't make a German shepherd stop herding,'' says Merritt Clifton, editor of the Washington-based Animal People magazine. "You can't make a Chihuahua stop barking.''

It is at this point that everyone starts yelling at each other and pointing fingers. My pit bull, someone says, plays with my children every day. He's the cutest, most affectionate pet we've ever had. Pits are no more aggressive or dangerous than beagles.

That's not true.

According to a study by the U. S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, covering the years between 1979 and 1994, pit bulls were involved in 57 fatal attacks -- well over twice the number for the next breed on the list, rottweilers, with 19, and more than German shepherds (17), huskies (12) and malamutes (12) combined. A 2000 study by the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association concluded that pit bulls "were involved in 65 fatal attacks between 1979 and 1998 ... twice that of rottweilers and more than three times German shepherds.''

Even more damning are the statistics kept by Clifton, a dog activist who has been keeping meticulous records since 1982 of dog attacks severe enough to have been reported in the media. It should be noted that Clifton excludes attacks by guard dogs, police dogs and trained fighting dogs and does not chart cases where the breed is uncertain.

The numbers are stunning. As of last week, meaning Mabel Wong's mauling would be included, pit bulls were cited in 831 attacks. The next closest was the rottweiler with 373. No other breed made it out of double digits.

"They are off the charts,'' says Gamez. "If you look at the fatals and severe bites, you will see the majority are rottweilers and pits.''

But that's just part of the story. If you've been to an animal shelter lately, you know that it seems like half the dogs there are pit bulls. Naively, our family thought that was because families were not adopting them.

Actually, it is the result of a population boom in pit bulls. In the three days before the Fourth of July holiday, Clifton contacted 22 animal shelters, and compared the results with a study he did 11 years ago. In a sample of 2,918 dogs, he found that the number of rottweilers and pit bulls had increased five times, including an "astonishing'' four times more pit bulls. And, it is important to note that with spay and neuter programs, the number of animals of all breeds in shelters has actually been decreasing.

"I've been in this business since 1975,'' Gamez says. "In those days, we used to pick up lots of types of dogs, Irish setters, Afghans. Now you walk into a shelter, and every other dog is a pit bull. This has been going on for 10 years. It may appear to be exploding, but it has been happening exponentially.''

The result is more opportunities for that sudden, unexpected moment when a pit bull loses control. Gamez says he always cautions his officers to keep an eye on pit bulls when capturing them.

"They don't growl,'' says Gamez, who was also part of the team investigating the Shawn Jones mauling case in Richmond. "It usually just comes right after you. These dogs can just go off. And when they do, they cause tremendous damage.''

What can be done? Gamez says it is important to report incidents of menacing or intimidating behavior by dogs in your neighborhood to animal control. As in the Diane Whipple case in San Francisco, where people came forward after the fatal attack with accounts of having had earlier concerns about the dogs, Wong's neighbors are now reporting having had problems with the dog that attacked her.

And some cities and states are considering "breed specific'' legislation, passing a law to keep pit bulls and rottweilers out of populated neighborhoods. The idea has encountered a firestorm of opposition from owners and dog organizations.

"The human community has been in denial for 20 years,'' says Clifton. "There's only hope where we begin to recognize the problem. We need to get that layer of denial lifted.''

In the meantime, if you encounter a pit bull or a rottweiler, keep an eye on it no matter how often its owner says it is the sweetest little pup you've ever seen. That's especially true if it is a "rehabilitated'' dog, which has supposedly had its breeding curbed by good training.

"Rehabilitated,'' says Gamez, "means it hasn't bitten anyone lately.''

Posted on: 2006/2/2 23:09
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Home away from home
Home away from home


Call the EEOC, let them help you to get rid of this cretin.

All the calls, emails to politicians in the world won't do it.

Posted on: 2006/2/2 22:41
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Home away from home
Home away from home


It's too bad there's politics at the animal shelter too.

Maybe you need Steve Fulop to shake things up, like he did with the Police Chief.



Posted on: 2006/2/2 22:29
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Home away from home
Home away from home


A good point. (Fast eddie is referring to the Chief of Police.)




Quote:

fasteddie wrote:
So if he won't fire the freakin dog catcher, what are the chances of him ever firing the Chief?

Posted on: 2006/2/2 20:20
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Home away from home
Home away from home


Again I just want to stress -- Pit-Bulls and dogs bred to fight might be good with their owners but may not be good with their owner's children or with other people oout in the world - not to mention other dogs and animals. If these breeds get "set off" they are very scarey! They have killed and maimed countless people! It is an on going and daily problem across america -- just look, any random time, at the news. LAS should not be adopting these breeds out to older people, or to people with children -- maybe they shouldn't be adopting them at all! I think JC should look into a ban of these breeds, as many other cities are already doing. I know the government should not be supporting this in any way! Spay & Nueter and put them all on a remote secure farm somewhere -- Lovers of these dogs can donate to this/these farms and we can let the bred die out naturally -- but don't ask children and adult victims to pay the high price of keeping these breeds out and about.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned ... l+attack&btnG=Search+News

Quote:

However... I've also met pits that, while great with people, are basically nightmares with other dogs. It's important to remember that this breed has many, many years of lineage with a specific purpose - to fight other dogs. The other, more positive side to this matter is that they were bred to get along beautifully with, and respect, human beings.

Posted on: 2006/2/2 19:01
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


Another 2 cents and another couple of steps away from the real topic of this thread...

I have met a few really sweet pitbulls and have fortunately never had a run-in with an aggressive one. But, my understanding of the American Temperament Test is that it really tests a dog's ability to distinguish when its appropriate or not to express aggressive, protective or defensive behavior, not really whether or not the dog has it in him to be aggressive. Its also important to distinguish the amount of damage a pitbull can inflict compared to say, a golden retriever, which has a lower average score on the ATT (not sure if that's a fact, I haven't checked but assume you have). Whereas an aggressive golden retriever would tend to bite and let go or bite and hold to restrain, pit bulls are programmed to inflict the maximum amount of damage and will not hesitate to do so. Pitbulls also have an extremely high tolerance to pain and will fight until exhaustion. We should be cognizant of what this means for someone who sets off the aggression in a pit bull as opposed to a golden retriever or beagle when we go touting the pit bulls ATT score.

Posted on: 2006/2/2 17:03
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


Steve,

I appreciate the energy you are focusing on this and other issues. Can you help us understand the department's position on why an open air drug market, like the one everyone is aware of on Wayne Street, is allowed to exist year after year?


Posted on: 2006/2/2 16:58
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Newbie
Newbie


Just hopping on in to add my 2 cents...

It's great that the pits you're allowed to walk are temperament-tested, and I can definitely say that I've met some really wonderful pits while out and about. However... I've also met pits that, while great with people, are basically nightmares with other dogs. It's important to remember that this breed has many, many years of lineage with a specific purpose - to fight other dogs. The other, more positive side to this matter is that they were bred to get along beautifully with, and respect, human beings.

Of course, every dog is different - I definitely believe that each animal has its own personality. However, it's unwise, and dangerous, to ignore the history of dog fighting in the pit bull's lineage. And although fights can start up between any two dogs, the immense strength of a pit's jaws can cause much, much more damage than that of many other dogs. Sadly, I've seen the aftermath of this in person - being involved in dog rescue and adoption groups, a good number of otherwise well-mannered pits have been turned in thanks to a spat with another dog within the same residence. Compared to the tears/lacerations/puncture wounds caused by most dogs, those that a pit can inflict are on a completely different level.

I greatly admire your volunteer work with the shelter, Welela - I have a huge appreciation for folks involved with rescue and adoption. But pits require a very high level of awareness on the part of the owner - obedience, socialization and temperament work are key.

I hope things work out well with the situation at the LAS. Will definitely be looking further into what the original poster claims.

Posted on: 2006/2/2 16:36
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Newbie
Newbie


I am a volunteer at the shelter and can attest to the fact that pit bulls are wonderful dogs. American Temperment Testing has given them a passing score of 86.6 percent. That's a higher rating than a Golden Retriever. One of the most famous pit bulls of all time is "Petey" of "The Little Rascals". The ones that we are allowed to walk are all tested before we can touch them. I have NEVER had one growl or show any signs of aggression towards me. They are my all-time favorites to walk.

Please come and volunteer at the shelter and you can see for yourself how great these dogs are. And please support the shelter manager so she can keep doing the wonderful job that she has been doing all along!

Posted on: 2006/2/2 15:48
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Re: Liberty Animal Shelter
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


...Watch what you say, 'cause you can be sued for libel and defamation, if you don't have evidence and/or witnesses.

....As for pitbulls....I saw once a pitbull trying to eat a cat...the poor cat was trapped under a car, and the owner was goading along the pitbull.....and shouting "get him!"

Posted on: 2006/2/2 14:34
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