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Re: tax reval result on a Google Map
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Quote:

majiazaishi wrote:
http://www.jiemengjourney.com/jersey-city-tax-reval

Even though the data released is still incomplete, it's quite obvious that downtown property tax will all go up, Bergen-Lafayette mostly go down, journal square is kind of half half.



It's like a piece of art. I want to order a print and frame it! LOL

Posted on: 2018/2/27 19:44
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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But bodhi, the ratables!!!! Hahahaha

Posted on: 2018/2/27 14:04
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

lecxe wrote:

Your tax bill went up? Well cry me a river. Life ain't fare. No one cares.


Yes, except the reval is actually the epitome of fairness. They're upset that everything is fair now lol.

Posted on: 2018/2/27 12:56
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Jesus Christ, it's like talking to a wall. You just don't get it. I try to stay respectful, but you make it very, very difficult.

Have you watched Westworld? She actually sounds just like a robot "host", caught in her endless loop and when presented with evidence from outside the "park" (in her mind ) simply replies "that doesn't look like anything to me".

Oh God, now I'm picturing Yvonne sidling up to a cowpoke at the bar and saying "You must be new, not much of a rind on you".


Nailed it.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 21:12
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
It is amazing how the truth creates this reaction, however, it is not my truth, but the truth from the Hudson County Tax Board. I do not create the numbers on the ratable base, they do. The board is waiting for the numbers to be file and expects to get the complete list in maybe six weeks. I stand by what I said until the Hudson County Tax Boards says something different.


Jesus Christ, it's like talking to a wall. You just don't get it. I try to stay respectful, but you make it very, very difficult.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 20:48
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
I just called up the county tax assessor and asked for the tax abated ratables which is not part of the $28 billion from the new reval. He agreed with me those tax abatements are not included but he does not have those numbers until the papers are filed. I am guessing that protected tax abated ratable base is around $10 billion, but it is only a guess since some do expire and new ones are added each year. Just to think, if those abatements were ratables, then everyone taxes would be lowered. But let's ignore the truth as usual.



Let's assume, for argument's sake, that you are right (a huge leap of faith, given your proven history of incorrect assertions) and let's assume that abated properties in JC amount to $10 billion. The taxes on that, based on 1.62%, would be $162 MM. About half of that would go to the city, so 81 MM. Now, let's look at the *data* (freely available online, but here is a link to the 2016 budget: https://public.tableau.com/profile/jer ... 11-2016/2016TotalRevenues) and we easily find out that (surprise!) PILOTs contribute ~128 MM to the city budget. Wow. Those evil interlopers are getting a free ride and the city is doing worse because they are paying an extra 47 MM to the city coffers. Wait. What? The city is better off because PILOTs are contributing an extra $47 MM to the budget than they would otherwise? That's crazy...

Put simply, the data once again shows you are full of it. The city is doing just fine with abatements. In fact, if you could magically waive a wand and do away with all abatements today, and moved everyone to regular taxes, the city would have to find almost $50 MM somewhere to plug the hole left behind from the difference in tax revenue. Stop spreading falsehoods.


The only flaw here is if anything changed with Abbott funding. Then the city would be up the creek.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 20:16
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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And again, if you're complaining about paying 1.62%, you truly have lost your mind. Considering the state picks up most of the $700mm school budget, for awful and failing schools, you have nothing to complain about.

Question for the group, how many total actual properties are in JC in this reval? Divide that by $500mm or so, and then tell me 1.62% is too high. I didn't think so.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 19:55
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Yvonne, you keep talking about the ratables not realizing you're defeating your own argument. As pointed out right after, the ratables lay more towards the city than non ratables on a percentage basis. Since PILOTS pay nothing for schools, and the schools are subsidized heavily by the state, one could argue PILOTS aren't the problem.

Market appreciation is the fundamental reasons your house rich friends are paying higher, but finally appropriate, taxes on their million dollar plus homes. Yes they got sweetheart deals but we are here now. Again, you keep crying wolf on them saying they're losing their homes, which makes YOU part of their problem. There are options. If they anyone loses their home, they're either too stupid, or too lazy to seek out these options.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 19:53
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
I just called up the county tax assessor and asked for the tax abated ratables which is not part of the $28 billion from the new reval. He agreed with me those tax abatements are not included but he does not have those numbers until the papers are filed. I am guessing that protected tax abated ratable base is around $10 billion, but it is only a guess since some do expire and new ones are added each year. Just to think, if those abatements were ratables, then everyone taxes would be lowered. But let's ignore the truth as usual.


I know I just said I'd stop trying to explain, but here I am. Yvonne, respectfully, no one is arguiing the points you're making about the impact of abatements, but they're not relevant to this discussion. At 1.62%, that's one of, if not the, lowest rate in the entire STATE. I fyou're friends are sitting on multi million dollar properties, they're not poor, and as mentioned before, need to consult a banker to access that equity and pay the taxes.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 17:55

Edited by HeightsNative on 2018/2/26 18:18:25
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

papadage wrote:
Please compare to comparable values. Homes downtown are not worth the "average" in the state.


Baloney, the people I know paid for their homes in the 1970s and 1980s at costs less than $100,000 and should not have taxes based on $2 to $3 million. That is just a way to legally steal someone's property. Taxes should be based on someone's income, it is the wealthy who do projects and avoid full taxes with their tax abatements that get away with not paying their fair share.


You're completely missing the point of Current Market Value, i.e. what someone is willing to pay for it, today. Oh, nevermind. I've seen the pointlessness of trying to explain this.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 16:20
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Who's organizing this sad protest?


A low information voter on NextdoorJC.


I can't wait to see the pics afterwards of 5 old folks shivering in the rain LOL

Posted on: 2018/2/22 19:40
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Who's organizing this sad protest?

Posted on: 2018/2/22 19:01
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Parkman: "recharge their outrage"
Also Parkman: "I didn't say outrage in my original post"

Yes of course I understand sarcasm. But you're not being sarcastic. Downtowners are very outraged and their perception of what is going on is horribly misguided.

You're just one of many trying to spin this fictitious unfairness under the guise of altruism. Just stop. It's not doing any of you any favors.


Posted on: 2018/2/22 12:36
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

parkman wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

parkman wrote:
At this point, where our taxes have been raised from that $17,000 level to $28,000 and up, it feels like we are being forced out our homes, where we never wanted to sell, and weren?t driven by a monetary motive.


I simply don't understand. Why would you leave your beloved home rather than part with a small fraction of your unexpected and apparently unwelcome gains? Because I'm pretty sure you're over 62, you can pay that 1.62% indefinitely via a reverse mortgage, the taxes paid will almost certainly be replenished by further appreciation.

This anger and sense of "underappreciation" by the oldest residents who have seen the most gains is really frustrating for those of us who will also see tax raises, but can see the big picture as well. Instead of realizing you got a gift of easily $100-200k from other parts of the city due to the long delay, many of you indulge this anger at the end of the party. It's unseemly.
Let me take a nap due to my old age, and I'll answer you in the morning. The "under appreciated" have to recharge their outrage.


Ha. Outrage. You have no right to be outraged (bummed maybe). And given all the reasons listed before, if you're outraged, you're an indecent person.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 4:44
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

parkman wrote:
At this point, where our taxes have been raised from that $17,000 level to $28,000 and up, it feels like we are being forced out our homes, where we never wanted to sell, and weren?t driven by a monetary motive.


I simply don't understand. Why would you leave your beloved home rather than part with a small fraction of your unexpected and apparently unwelcome gains? Because I'm pretty sure you're over 62, you can pay that 1.62% indefinitely via a reverse mortgage, the taxes paid will almost certainly be replenished by further appreciation.

This anger and sense of "underappreciation" by the oldest residents who have seen the most gains is really frustrating for those of us who will also see tax raises, but can see the big picture as well. Instead of realizing you got a gift of easily $100-200k from other parts of the city due to the long delay, many of you indulge this anger at the end of the party. It's unseemly.


You nailed it, on all fronts. If a reverse mortgage isn't your thing, think about this. If you sold your place for $1.5mm and rented a place in the same neighborhood for $3000 a month, you'd be able to pay that rent for roughly 41 years just off the proceeds of the sale (I didn't factor in broker fees etc).

I'm emphathetic to such a shock, but it's all been said before. You all knew it was coming. And you've all experienced many years of underpaying, subsidized by the poorer parts of JC. Nothing will change that at this point. And you don't have to leave your longtime home. Stop with the overreactions and get a plan together for next steps.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 4:43
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

hero69 wrote:
well, it is definitely time for fulop to curtail, if not eliminate, these sweetheart deals imo. Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Loan? That is silly, the city reduced the pilots payments several years ago due to water rates on a senior building. They were paying 18% and water was extra. The owners came back because newer developments are only paying 6.28% to the city. No, the problem are these sweetheart deals, by the way those seniors in those buildings are still paying one third of their income, but the owners want a guaranteed profit, so why should anyone get a guarantee when the city takes our properties and place them into lien? The problem is a rigged system that protects tax abated buildings both affordable and market rate.


At this point what does it matter? Oh yeah, of the state comes in says "pay for your own schools", it's going to matter a TON.

That day will surely be upon us at some point. Hence why you need to listen to people who call for an end to the abatements.

Posted on: 2018/2/21 0:09
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Enough. If you own a million dollar property you'll likely pay $16,250 in taxes. In most NJ suburbs that's a deal, because those taxpayers are sending $500 million each year to pay to educate JC kids.


You're being generous in stating that this money is educating kids. It's definitely spent on the education system, but said system is hardly educating JC kids.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 15:48

Edited by HeightsNative on 2018/2/17 16:12:20
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

avinandre wrote:
Quote:

jc201jc wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy


FWIW I looked into 10 Provost Square (new building near Grove St PATH) a few weeks ago and they have no tax abatement...so maybe the tide is starting to turn.


Condos with tax abatement still pays fair taxes..

All the rental buildings are still getting 30 year tax abatements. T


But precisely ZERO of that PILOT money goes towards JC schools. The state makes up the difference.

What is so hard for you guys to understand about abuses and overused of abatements? Yes they're useful. But downtown hasn't needed to give them out for the last 10 years, but they have. Like candy.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 13:47
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

Ralph_Abutts wrote:
Quote:

Well put. People calling for a phase in are being greedy and encouraging more bad behavior.


Not really. Rather this conversation is just above the level of comprehension and analytical capability for some folk.


Yes, and those people who can't comprehend it are the ones downtown crying foul. Thank you for confirming!!

Posted on: 2018/2/15 22:01
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

Ralph_Abutts wrote:
You are all over the place with your responses.

The point is the entire city would be better off, including those with reduced assessments, if the state made a one time exception and had a stepup/phase in assessment. If so, the current reval would never have taken as long as it did to finally occur. The incentives to do so were not right under the current law.

Additionally, the current state law should be amended to explicitly penalize those municipalities that do not adhere to the law like withholding state aid, removing tax cap exceptions, etc. Thay is, it will provide them with a strong incentive to do revals on a regular basis.


Again, a phase in would only benefit the 1/6th of the city that has significantly underpaid for years, while the other 5/6ths would continue to overpay. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and seems so obviously rooted in self interest. Everyone knew this was coming but didn't believe how severe it would be, and now everyone's crying poor. Others here have said it, there ARE options (appeals, senior freezes, et); nobody, and I mean NOBODY, will have empathy or sympathy for someone sitting on a $1mm+ home valuation.

Regarding state law, what SHOULD change is JC receiving as much state aid as it gets for its schools. That should be over and done with after this.

Posted on: 2018/2/15 15:51
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

Ralph_Abutts wrote:
I do not think you really comprehend tax appeals and tax shocks.

Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, thing is? "Phased in" means that the people who are overpaying their taxes have to continue overpaying, until everything is up to date.

Plus, doing it in steps means repeated shocks with each step. Pass.


"overpaying" is a prejorative by someone else other than the homeowner affected.

No one "overpays" - folks willing pay the tax or appeal it at their *free will*. That is, one thought they were "overypaying" all along - they would have done a tax appeal years ago. Many/most have not.

If they cannot afford to pay the tax then they will move, freely (selling) or involuntarily (foreclosure). When someone's taxes goes up 4xs overnight - it will be mostly the latter. That is a tax shock - it will affect the marketability of all real estate, even those with near-term reduced tax bills adjacent to the boarded up/foreclosed properties.


No, sir, you clearly don't get it. In a normal scenario (one in which the city conducts regularly scheduled revals and the equalization ratio doesn't reach below 25%!), the time anyone "overpays" or "underpays" is a few years, depending on growth in various parts of the city. When a city is this far out of whack, yes, the majority of the city is significantly overpaying because the majority of the city is not valued properly and an appropriate tax rate isn't applied. An appeal would yield minimal results without a full reval.

Posted on: 2018/2/14 22:17
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Hopefully, the people who are getting tax relief will want to share their perspective.


But most of them haven't gotten their letter! Bad choice from a PR standpoint, but that's just consistent with this whole debacle.

It's amazing that after all this time Yvonne either still doesn't understand what a reval is or cynically chooses to ignore it in favor of her disinformation campaign. People want to blame Fulop, but he's been in office 4 years and she's been spreading these lies to anyone who will listen for 30. She's at least one reason every mayor shied away from this.


You can't deny Fulops 4 years of purposeful delay added significant strain to the downtown residents. That's directly his fault. He purposely delayed it long enough to get reelected,and that cost JC tax payers millions in legal fees, and downtown residents 4 years of explosive growth added to their assessment.

Posted on: 2018/2/14 12:16
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

biggoron wrote:
Looks like an excel file was posted by the assessment company:
http://www.asinj.com/revaluation/docs ... oposed%20Assessments.xlsx

It has over 13,000 properties listed so far... Any idea what the total number should be around once it is all said and done?


Sure is taking them a while to post Ogden Ave LOL. Unless I missed it.

Posted on: 2018/2/13 13:02
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Re: JC Real estate Ar·ma·ged·don - Supply glut!
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Quote:

JSleeze wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

JSleeze wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

pizzaboye wrote:
Downtown renter here. My landlord said he's raising the rent by $300/mo due to the re-val. So, now we're moving out of JC. Bye!


That's not that bad. Some are seeing $1000+ increases.


"Some" who? Give specific examples.


It's anecdotal but a friend of mine is an owner downtown. his costs are going by more than $1000 a month and he doesn't know if he can pass it through to his tenant or not, legally.


So you don't know of anyone who has received a $1,000+ rent increase. Let's stick to facts, please.


Yes, forgive me; it should have said "some MAY see" based on cost increases to owners I know. Apologies. Either way, it ain't good.

Posted on: 2018/2/9 15:44
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Re: JC Real estate Ar·ma·ged·don - Supply glut!
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Quote:

JSleeze wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

pizzaboye wrote:
Downtown renter here. My landlord said he's raising the rent by $300/mo due to the re-val. So, now we're moving out of JC. Bye!


That's not that bad. Some are seeing $1000+ increases.


"Some" who? Give specific examples.


It's anecdotal but a friend of mine is an owner downtown. his costs are going by more than $1000 a month and he doesn't know if he can pass it through to his tenant or not, legally. Someone on the other thread brought this up. It is an unreasonable increase of your costs went up by as much?

Can any lawyers weigh in?

Posted on: 2018/2/9 14:46
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Re: JC Real estate Ar·ma·ged·don - Supply glut!
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Quote:

pizzaboye wrote:
Downtown renter here. My landlord said he's raising the rent by $300/mo due to the re-val. So, now we're moving out of JC. Bye!


That's not that bad. Some are seeing $1000+ increases.

Posted on: 2018/2/9 14:09
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Re: JC Real estate Ar·ma·ged·don - Supply glut!
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Quote:

JSleeze wrote:
Quote:

JCResidente wrote:

Vulture investors sit on the sideline - 60% plus downside.


Tap the breaks there, Chief. 60+%?? Not remotely likely.

What seems to be forgotten is for the chunk of the market that pays its taxes under PILOTs, nothing much has changed. Sure, the land tax is being raised astronomically (as much as ten times), but that is a very small piece of the overall bill. Rising interest rates and the new tax bill will soften the market, to be sure, but otherwise it's business as usual.


For newer, long term abatements, sure. But many are already midway through shorter abatement cycles. Any smart investor sees the bigger picture and would stay far away. On a net basis, this is a disaster for DTJC.

Posted on: 2018/2/9 14:03
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

RichMauro wrote:
I wonder what the likelihood is that some JC politicians are browsing this forum.
Have any newspaper articles appeared that anyone can point out that explore the disruption in the lives
of the aged? These people only seek to live out their lives in the buildings and neighborhoods to which they've become accustomed. They've been good citizens, obeyed the laws, raised their families to do the same, and are now faced with the hardships of ridiculously high tax rates which make no sense whatever. The politicians of New Jersey should be ashamed for abandoning these seniors in the waning years of their lives.
And for those of you who offer economic reasoning and proffer same solutions to the panic in the lives of these citizens, remember: "what goes around comes around".


Rich, you keep confusing tax amount with tax RATE. These elders and everyone else are going to pay one of the lowest tax RATES (1.6%) in the entire state. However the value of heir homes are over a million bucks so again, you can't expect sympathy. Because again, those people have disproportionately underpaying relative to the value of their homes for years, even decades. Look into reverse mortgages etc. there are solutions that can stave off moving.

Posted on: 2018/2/7 15:05
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

Adonis wrote:
I've been living in a tax abated 2 bedroom 2 bath condo in downtown for 10 years. I've been paying $10.5k per year in property taxes for those 10 years. Turns out I was paying in many instances more than twice the amount that many of my fellow neighbors who are in non-tax abated properties that are currently valued at $1m or more were paying.
It's a complete fallacy to blanketly say that tax abated properties were paying less taxes than non-tax abated properties by comparison.


A fair point, pre reval. But doesn't this mean you're still paying close to $10k post reval at a similar valuation of your neighbors while your neighbors will pay close to $30k post reval? If I have that correct, that's still messed up, just in reverse.

And to someone's earlier point, there is no sympathy for DTJC residents paying the proper tax on million dollar homes while underpaying for many years.

Remember, 1.6% is still one of the lowest rates in the entire state! All the while still making the state subsidize 2/3 of the JC school system. That's a pretty solid deal in my view.

Posted on: 2018/2/7 13:53
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Quote:

JCman24 wrote:
I'm seeing a ton of downtown properties for sale on Zillow right now, whereas it seems like the market has been super tight for the last few years. Of course they're all going for more than a million, but still interesting.


And none of them list the new taxes of course.

Posted on: 2018/2/6 5:02
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