Also in todays JJ:


Watchdog group is formed
Saturday, March 29, 2008

Animals have a new friend in Hudson County.

One of the founding members of Hudson Animal Advocates says the advocacy group's immediate goal is to urge "major reforms" at the Hudson County District Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

"We're basically speaking for those who can't speak for themselves," said David Norman, of Jersey City.

The organization has retained the services of the New Jersey Appleseed Public Interest Law Center for legal advice.

NJ Appleseed attorney Diana Jeffrey said she will help the group'sef forts to "bring transparency and accountability to the HCSPCA."

The group also has the support of Jersey City Ward E Councilman Steven Fulop, who said the SPCA shelter has been the site of "repeated offenses."

A volunteer at the shelter yesterday pleaded not guilty to animal cruelty charges.

"Significant change there is really what we're looking for," Fulop said.

HAA can be reached by e-mail at HudsonAnimalAdvocates@comcast.net

Subject: [DOGJC] SAMPLE LETTERS - feel free to use


Here are some sample letters, along with whom to send them to. If you can find the time to put them in your own words that would be great, but is not required. Thanks to everyone for acting on this quickly.

LETTER 1

Dear Dr. Sorhage,
I am writing to you concerning the deplorable management and conditions at the Hudson County District Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (HCSPCA) in the hope of breaking the more than 25 year pattern of chronic abuses at the facility, and lack of appropriate official action.
The HCSPCA has a long history of operating in violation of shelter regulations NJAC 8:23A-1 et seq, as documented in the State Commission of Investigations' 2001 report and continuing to this day. The report noted then that the HCSPCA was the subject of more complaints and inspections than any other SPCA shelter in the state. The SCI was sharply critical of both the DHSS and the local Jersey City Health Dept. for failing to take appropriate steps to ensure the facility came into compliance. Both the DHSS and the local Jersey City Health dept. have a history of inspecting the facility, finding violations, and then failing to follow up or issue fines. In fact, the SCI stated that the DHSS's failure to respond appropriately to the HCSPCA was indicative of the failure of the shelter inspection system as a whole.
The HCSPCA has exhibited and continues to exhibit a habitual practice of deplorable conditions and substandard care of the animals. The HCSPCA has no desire or intent to take the steps necessary to operate within the bounds of the law. Strong regulatory response is needed to bring the facility into compliance once and for all. I am aware that both the State DHSS and the local Health Dept. have recently inspected the HCSPCA and found intolerable conditions and numerous, egregious violations. I expect that the DHSS will take the following steps:
Issue fines to the HCSPCA for all violations found at the 2/20/08 inspection pursuant to your authority under N.J.S.A. 4:19-15.14 and N.J.S.A. 4:19-15.19. This is necessary and appropriate mostly because, as noted in the report, the conditions had worsened since the inspector's last visit.
Issue a recommendation to the local Jersey City Health Department to suspend the facility's license until the HCSPCA submits and acts upon an approved Plan of Correction.
Ascertain whether the HCSPCA currently has a license to operate from the local Jersey City Health Dept. If not, then take all steps necessary pursuant to the authority granted by N.J.S.A. 26:1A-15 and N.J.S.A. 26:1A-5: to shut the operation down until such time as a license can be obtained.
Hold a Public Health Meeting between the local Jersey City Health Officer, Joseph Castagna, the president of the HCSPCA, and members of the public to create a plan aimed at bringing this facility into meaningful compliance.
Continue to do regular, unannounced inspections until meaningful compliance is achieved.
I expect and look forward to hearing from you as to what DHSS decides to do.
Send to (remove spaces on either side of @):

Faye Sorhage, State Public Health Veterinarian
faye.sorhage @ doh.state.nj.us

cc without comment to:
Renee.Cirillo @ doh.state.nj.us
Heather.Bialy @ doh.state.nj.us
melissa.raksa @ dol.lps.state.nj.us
mariano @ jcnj.org
MayorHealy @ jcnj.org
HudsonAnimalAdvocates @ Comcast.net

LETTER 2

To the Editors:

I am writing in hopes of bringing attention to the deplorable management and conditions at the Hudson County District Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (HCSPCA) in the hope of breaking the more than 25 year pattern of chronic abuses at the facility, and lack of appropriate official action.
The HCSPCA has a long history of operating in violation of shelter regulations. A 2001 State Commission report noted that the HCSPCA had more complaints and inspections than any other SPCA shelter in the state. The report was sharply critical of both the Department of Health and Senior Services and the Jersey City Health Department for failing to make the shelter follow the law. Both departments have a history of inspecting, finding violations, and doing nothing. Seven years have passed and things are now even worse.
The HCSPCA continues to practice deplorable conditions and substandard care of the animals. They show no desire or intent to operate within the law. The city and state need to bring the facility into compliance once and for all. Both the State DHSS and the local Health Dept. have recently inspected the HCSPCA. They found numerous, egregious violations. Even the most basic information on a Not-for-Profit is impossible to come by. No one can tell me who is on the Board of Directors of the HCSPCA. No one knows if they have a license. The only license I can find expired 5 years ago. If they don't have a license, how are they still open? When is enough enough?

Send to (for emails, remove spaces on either side of @):

Hudson Reporter Associates, L.P.
1400 Washington Street
PO Box 3069
Hoboken, NJ 07030
Attn: Letters to the Editor

The Jersey Journal
http://www.nj.com/mailforms/journalletters/

The Star-Ledger
Star-Ledger letters must not exceed more than 200 words. All submissions must include the writer's name, address and phone number. Address and phone numbers are kept confidential. Unsigned submissions will not be used. Calls made to you by the Star-Ledger to verify authorship do not guarantee publication.
eletters @ starledger.com
Cc: HudsonAnimalAdvocates@comcast.net

LETTER 3

Dear Mr. De Fazio,
I am wrting to thank your office for having taken the case involving 13 criminal charges against Zoe Carbajales related to her role as Manager of the Hudson County District Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, issued by Joe Frank of Jersey City Animal Control
It is hard to describe how upsetting I find the deplorable conditions of the shelter and the behavior of its'manager. I was glad to hear that Mrs. Carbajales had been charged. I urge you to please proceed with the charges as soon as possible. I will follow up with your office shortly to see what action is planned.
Again, thank you for taking the case.
Send to (remove spaces on either side of @):

Edward J. De Fazio
hcpo @ hcpo.org

Cc: HudsonAnimalAdvocates@comcast.net

Thanks for posting catsndogs :)

Great post Sal
as usual :)

mary ann

Post here and ask for contacts

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DOGJC/

mary ann

hmmmm
3X daily is a bit extreme--I'd look into a better quality diet :)


There is a petition circulating to address the off leash dog problem we have all over JC and in particular Hamilton Park. Many other animal control issues are focused on as well.
If you are interested in this petition please go to:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DOGJC/

There is a petition circulating to address the off leash dog problem we have all over JC and in particular Hamilton Park. Many other animal control issues are focused on as well.
If you are interested in this petition please go to:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DOGJC/

Very Well Said Parkman :)


&

Chapter 90 Animals

90-16

Use of Leash in Public Places

1) Except in an area designated as a dog run by
the city of jersey city division of public works & forestry with
official signage erected clearly indicating such dog run

No person who owns, keeps or harbors any dog
shall suffer or permit it to be upon the public streets or in any of the public places of the city unless such dog is accompanied by a responsible person and is securely confined and controlled by one adequate leash not more
than six feet long.

We are discussing much of this right now on

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DOGJC/

A petition will soon be circulating through JC for signatures

mary ann

POST ANONYMOUSLY ON DOGJC:
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/pet/564795182.html

HCSPCA needs to close due in court tomorrow

I hope the citizens of Union City and North
Bergen are aware of where
they are sending their pets.

http://www.freewebs.com/shadrack/index.htm

Years ago we did demonstrate and this was the
beginning of the
eventual opening of the Liberty shelter. About 50
or so people showed
up with signs, the press covered it, and
awareness of the deplorable
conditions of the shelter were brought to light.
It takes a little
time for a demonstration to take effect, so the
shelter was not
closed that day and no animals were displaced.
It seems things have returned to something close
to the abomination
that once was, so it might be time to act again.

They told me that they were under new management
but the same lady I
saw last november was still there as of last
week. LIES LIES LIES

Put an end to animal cruelty at The Hudson County
SPCA. They are due
in court Thursday Februry 7, 2008 at 1:00 p.m.
Room # 6. The
community of Hudson County and the elected
officials of Union City
and North Bergen need to end the abuse now.

These poor animals need our voice to save them
from any further harm.

Jersey Journal Article "Can SPCA defend
'cruelty'?" Friday, January
25, 2008
http://www.nj.com/jjournal/stories/in ...
01245041129120.xml&coll=3


They can be reached at this number 201- 435-3557

I hate comcast because I suddenly and abruptly no longer have court tv ch 69 & I LOVE court tv
AND suddenly tv guide ch 60 is not that; but something else
so that is why I HATE comcast at this moment
Mary Ann

well...
my parents met at the White Horse on 11th & Hudson--I am most grateful to the WH-does that count for anything?

hate you pinky you know exactly what I am thinking
grrrr
get on it girlie

I know gross right? eewww

Ok she is 3? could be diet related -the breath I mean--get her on a very good quality diet--Innova (not Evo just regular Innova feline) is one of the best-better than Wellness IMHO-give the breath some time--stress can have an amazing & terrible effect on the system and organs--and so the breath presents that too--BUT it could be her teeth too--however--no matter WHAT any vet tells you do NOT clean her teeth right now-WAIT for anesthesia--she has been through enough--wait and see if her teeth are that bad--I am sorry but truth be known many many vets will try to get you to do everything all at once--vaccines/teeth cleaning (under anesthesia) its assaulting to the system. Go to the vet--get the mites treatment and take it from there. Take your time. Do not shoot her up all at once. Is she spayed yet?
as far as more vaccines go?
thats a personal preference-for me? she is 3 years old and many would argue she has built up an ammunity-she is strickly indoors--you wlll hear very very differently from the vet--unless you go the holistic route--all the vets are gonna tell- " shoot her up!!! Its what is best to protect her." I do not share that opinon. I have shared my life with likely 12 cats and I woud suggest to you-that you educate yourself--read read read-
good luck
Mary Ann @ faeryx4@yahoo.com

Hey lovejc
A few things :)
How old is she or he?
in your case the breath is likely a teething issue if she is under 12mos
once she cuts all her teeth the breath WILL get better I promise :)
about vaccines?
do some research on line
check out Dr Dodds suggestions on vaccines
http://www.dogsadversereactions.com/vDrDodds.html

oh & the gook on her back nails? its ear mite debris- a mixture of wax and nasty mites dried blood poop--nice right?
after you see the vet & she gets medication hopefully they will explain to you keeping that area (back nails) really clean is very important--otherwise she may re infest herself with mites
pick up a copy of Dr Pitcairns Natural Pet

good luck
Mary Ann

Welcome to the community Jenn
I invite you to join our Jersey City Dog Group @

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DOGJC/


Pinky--Could you please post your L P construction message on the dog group too?

thanks
Mary Ann

In a effort to hear as many dog owners requests/suggestions and hopes for the future runs the H P Dog Run Committee is asking that all of the above dog related messages be posted on DOGJC--since this discussion is now strictly dog run related and many of our members do not frequent JClist--you will be heard much better and get more feedback on the dog group--please post there if you are a dog owner: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DOGJC/
thank you
take care
Mary Ann

If you were thinking of not bother to vote today-
Please reconsider-

I just got back from voting and because we do not have a dog area in the
park yet where the actual voting is taking place-and there is a children's playground--The flier posted on the
playground entrance takes advantage of folks just happening upon the
park and seeing the flier and are asked to vote for D

I know if I had no idea of what was going on and stumbled on the park
and saw the appeal flier posted at the children's playground--I would
likely vote that way too.

Get to the park before 5 and VOTE B PLEASE

If you are at V V P Dog Run tell other owners to get to Hamilton Park
by 5 and VOTE B

For more info go to
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DOGJC/

ALL 4 VAN VORST PARK DOG RUN COMMITTEE MEMBERS SUPPORT PLAN B

MARC WESSON (V V PARKMAN) WRITES:
As a member of the Friends of Van Vorst Park and the AD Hoc Committee
for the
VVP dog run, I would like to endorse design "B" with caveats.

If the dog run is extended into the area where the game tables are
now drawn and
the entrance to the older children's playground is changed from the
center north
spoke to the northeast and center east spokes, I would support "B".

"B", as opposed to "D" does not put the dog run right in the middle
of all the
active areas of the park.

"B" can be expanded south and provide a greater buffer to 9th st. by
moving the
entire run slightly south and still gain more space.

"C" takes away an area for older kids by eliminating a multi-use
tennis court.

"A" is great if you want golf balls to go flying through HP.

"D", besides the previous comment, is very difficult to expand in
order make an
adequate
size dog run.

I feel we have to choose between four flawed designs, however if the
city is
willing to be
flexible, as Steve and Jen have stated, then maybe we can make this
work.
>
> DAVID NORMAN (V V P DOG) WRITES:
> The proposition in plan D is horribly flawed and completely
> unworkable.The proposal is misleading as well, as it seems to
> indicate that the only plan for 2 runs is plan D. That is completely
> false. The vote is to indicate the LOCATION and SIZE for the final
> run AREA. After the vote, the HPNA has asked me and Mary Ann to work
> with them to come up with the actual design, which regardless of
> which of a,b, or c passes WILL include a small breed run.
>
> Please do not vote for D. If D passes, all the dogs lose.
>
>
> AND
>
> After reviewing the various options I have decided to go with B.
>
> I am not enamored with A because I think the putting green is an
> accident waiting to happen.
>
> The dog run design in D is too challenging to pull off.
>
> That leaves B or C. While I personally love the idea of a community
> garden as shown in C, I think that the number of new units coming on
> line in the next two years necessitates having a court in that
> section, so I vote B.
>
> Just my 2 cents....
> - Dave
>
>
> MARY ANN PUCCIA (FAERYX4 & LUNAWOLF3 ON JCLIST) WRITES:
> I do believe that the dogs need to be as far away from small
> and sometimes (sorry) loud & screeching kids as possible. Plan D
does
> not work for me for far more reasons than size issues- I do not want
> our dogs in the center of all that activity. We also need the dogs
as
> far away from the children's water play area as possible. Stick the
> dogs in those tiny activity surrounded & trafficked runs in D and
you
> will have a bunch of very stressed out & barking dogs. I do not want
> the dog runs seeming to be an 'attraction' to the park but rather a
> working feature where dog owners can exercise and play with their
> dogs without too much non dog distractions or harassment. Many talk
> about fears dog have of kids but lets not forget some kids have real
> fears of dogs too. They need to be as far away from each other as
the
> park will allow.
> My only issue with A is the putting greens--safety first for all of
> us no golf balls shooting around ouch I just do not think this is
> the appropriate place for a putting green
>
> I prefer B over C because of the athletic element-
> I realize a multi purpose space is needed instead of 2 for tennis--
as
> a
> parent I know in the city there is a real need for space for older
> children to play say the 13-18 crowd.
>
> I understand some neighbors surrounding the park are pushing hard
for
> plan D because they feel the more centrally located the runs are the
> less noise they will have to endure. On the contrary.... if the dogs
> are situated in such an activity centered spot the greater the
chances
> of them constantly being stimulated and so constantly barking. If I
> lived around the park I would vote for B.
>
>
> MIA SCANGA (MIA_ARIESGRP) WRITES:
>
>
> Mary Ann, thanks for all your efforts on educating us on the HPNA
dog
> run options.... I agree with your choice, B....
>

HAAAA
hysterical and so sadly true:


lunawolf3 wrote:
When was the last time you saw a kid:
Lead the blind & assist the deaf?



Althea wrote:
All the time, but we generally like to go by the term, "parents."

bluehorse wrote:
PS. I have nothing against dogs, but I doubt any dog will sameday be our future leader or pay taxes or support me in my old age. (Ok,ok, a few exceptionals ones will be able to bring me the phone, when I fall down and break my hips.)


perhaps but consider this:
When was the last time you saw a kid:

Lead the blind & assist the deaf?
Greatly assist the handicapped and wheel chair bound?
Alert and sound the alarm when a loved one is seizing?
Alert and locate cancers?
Rescue drowning victims?
Search & locate fire, hurricane & other natural disaster victims?
Lower blood pressure? (kids increase BP greatly)
Decrease loneliness and depression? (kids make you depressed)

Kids are the cause of most of the above and you know it.

I want to remind you all of Balto & Togo and what they did for those kids:
In 1925, a life-or-death race to rescue the children of Nome, AK, from disease made an international hero of one sled dog -- and eventually led to the creation of Alaska's Iditarod sled dog race, the subject of NATURE's SLED DOGS: AN ALASKAN EPIC.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/sleddogs/balto.html

PLEASE NOTE THE ABOVE WAS INTENDED FOR ( HA) HUMOROUS AUDIENCES ONLY AND INTENDED & OFFERED TO LIGHTEN EVERYONE UP A BIT

'every time I try to get out they pull me back in'


G_Elkind said:
While I'm on my three minute soapbox here, this vote should not be characterized as dog vs children or us against them referendum.

I understand what you are saying G and it is very sad to me that the choices are as they are. The plans themselves fostered and created this sentiment. A plan E would have been so great :( There was absolutely no reason why both the parents and the dog owners needs could not have been met. But alas we are where we are and I agree once the ultimate plan is voted in we all need to work together. Althea & I have been talking and we will continue to after the final vote.


Although I must say I feel this quote was misleading, dishonest and a bit of dirty pool:
L Green said: This is a great opportunity to build a phenominal family and dog friendly park for our community and your vote and input will make a difference.

Parkman wrote:
As a member of the Friends of Van Vorst Park, the AD Hoc Committee for the VVP and HP dog runs, I would like to endorse design ?B?, with caveats.

If the dog run is extended into the area where the game tables are now drawn and the entrance to the older children?s playground is changed from the center north spoke to the northeast and center east spokes, I would support ?B?.

?B?, as opposed to ?D? does not put the dog run right in the middle of all the active areas of the park.

?B? dog run area can be expanded south and provide a greater buffer to 9th st. by moving the entire run slightly south and still gain more space.

?C? takes away an area for older kids by eliminating a multi-use tennis court.

?A? is great if you want to watch golf balls flying through HP.

?D?, besides the previous comment, is very difficult to expand in order make an adequate size dog run.

I feel we have to choose between four flawed designs, however if the city is willing to be flexible, as Steve and Jen have stated, then maybe we can make ?B? work.

No matter what design you prefer, please come out to vote.


Excellent points Parkman!!!
Adding moving the entrance to the older kids playground is something I did not see--you are absolutely right, thank you

4bailey wrote:

Vote Concept B!!

...and please,? write-in somewhere on your ballot: ?Extend the dog-run?!!

...and "Saluti", skwirrlking!!


More great points- a well exercised dog is a more quiet, less reactive, calm, social & happy dog :)

I concur too that plan B best meets all of the park users needs-not just dog owners

4bailey would you post your write-in suggestion on DOGJC please?
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DOGJC/

ok my work here is done

thanks
Mary Ann

Althea wrote:
Pardon me for a moment here, but it is my understanding that DogJC is recommending that toys do not be brought into dog runs as there is a tendency for dogs to become aggressive over their toys and start fights with other dogs. This I understood from the dog-owner's advocate group themselves presents a dangerous situation and should be avoided.

In fairness
the DOGJC has not officially stated no toys in the run.

The rules still states: 'no squeaking toys'

I understand what 4bailey is saying. The frisbee play was what they needed to resort to in order to exercise their pooch.

So since plan B gives the dogs more room than D that is the best plan for the dogs.

And yes it is true the smaller the run the higher ALL the dogs tension levels are about everything--not just toys.

I realize MOST dogs are fine with toys or in the case of V V 'non squeaking toys' but many are not. For every 20 dogs who are fine--you are likely gonna have 2 or more who are not and that is too high.
I have been approach by many owners asking the rule be changed to no toys at all including balls. So this is now an issue we clearly need to address.
Our chats got kinda cut off with all the H P Vote posts. We will get back to it though.

Mary Ann
I am going back to DOGJC now guys nice chatting with you all. If you wanna chat dog things come on over there. See you then:)

I hear you :)
However remember please the surface materials used in V V P Dog Run which will also be used in Hamilton Park are a far cry from the majority of the runs in NYC.
Unless your buddy lives across from the 72nd street run which is the only one in NYC that has the same surface as V V this comparison won't mean much :(

Anytime Piggy :)

Why don't we ask Parkman about the smell factor?

Fair?

he lives directly over the run in V V P

http://www.reuters. com/article/ gc08/idUSL054561 4220070405

Home buyers search for a playground for Fido
Thu Apr 5, 2007 9:37AM EDT

NEW YORK (Reuters Life!) - A playground for dogs is one of the hot
items on the "must have" list for house hunters, according to a survey
on emerging housing trends.

Dog parks have become a popular request in new home searches, often
tipping the scale in decision-making, said Chicago-based author,
columnist and real estate broker Mark Nash.

He reported the trend in his annual survey of what's in and what's out
with homebuyers based on information from 480 real estate agents from
across the United States and Canada.

"It could give a green light to a home that someone may not be
absolutely in love with if there is a dog park and they are a dog
owner," said Nash in an interview.

In addition to providing a place to exercise the pampered pet, owners
often view dog parks as a way to integrate and interact with other
dogs in the new neighborhood, he added.

The trend has grown most in major urban centers like Los Angeles,
Chicago, Philadelphia and New York, where more dog parks exist, but
Nash believes the word is spreading.

In Clearwater, Florida, Bay Park Condominiums offer a gated and
well-lit dog run in each building, according to internet
advertisements.

Nash predicted that having a dog park as a community amenity could
shorten the amount of time a home is on the market and potentially
increase a property's value.

Pooch owners are looking for a quiet park within reasonable walking
distance that Is two to four acres, well-lit for evenings, has latched
gates to allow for off-leash runs, paths for rainy days, trees and
benches for shade and rest, said Nash.

Sites like www.dogpark. com, which will open a virtual park in the
online world of Second Life, provide an extensive country-wide dog
park list for owners looking for that perfect location.

In response, I don?t know if this woman does have an accent as she didn?t respond but with attitude, via her body language (raised head, rolled eyes, looked away and changed her walking posture) walked off. All I can add is that she appears to be in her mid 20?s.


yep
she ignores your request to leash her dog...
So I too have never heard her speak
Now whenever I see the duo I cross the street

Well thank you Mr BrightMoment :)

This is tough as I know you know

I am with B.
As many have already said we will all ultimately go with what feels right to us as individuals--lets hope many will take all interested parties into account.

I feel just as strongly as Althea about the location of the dogs as she does about the kids.
I really really want the dogs away as much as possible from the loud activities of plan D. I likely will not use the runs if plan D passes.
I have spent a lot of time in H P to form my opinion. As I stated earlier I have tapped many resources for my study as well. I am not going to tell others how to vote--I can only say how I feel.

I sympathize and can relate with all parents who are raising their kids in the city (anywhere for that matter) I understand their concerns and remember myself how hard it was keeping both of my kids happy, safe & entertained in the village. I frequented Downing st playground--until it got too boring for my older son then spent more time with them at Bleecker st playground which had more options for older kids. And then there were my dogs. And that's a whole nother story. At puppy hood there were no runs in NY but we all know that changed many years ago.

ok here goes
I am voting for plan B because I feel it best addresses as many park users as possible. Not just kids and dogs but sports etc as well.

I do not agree with some who feel the kids needs should come first and foremost before dogs.Sorry but I do not agree.I believe most look at their dogs as their children and a vital part of their lives and families- all should be heard. I also feel that parents concerns are real and should be addressed. How? The spoke between the kids playground on plan B should be broken and connect the playgrounds.
that's just me though
Hope I do not regret this Mr BrightMoments

I hardly ever read from this group but have been as of late because of the dog run issues.

I am trying my best to read and expose myself to as many thoughts and opinions on the plans as I can. From as many sources as I can. dogjc, jclist, local friends, neighbors and talk inside and out of the dog runs.
I wanna thank everyone for putting so much time, effort and thoughts into their decision making.

I am a dog owner and a parent. My kids are grown but I can sympathize with parents raising kids in the city as I raised 2 in the village along with 2 dogs. Not easy. I cannot believe I did it actually.

I adore children as I said I made 2 myself.

I do however believe that the dogs need to be as far away from small and sometimes (sorry) loud & screeching kids as possible. Plan D does not work for me for far more reasons than size issues- I do not want our dogs in the center of all that activity. We also need the dogs as far away from the children's water play area as possible. Stick the dogs in those tiny activity surrounded & trafficked runs in D and you will have a bunch of very stressed out & barking dogs. I do not want the dog runs seeming to be an 'attraction' to the park but rather a working feature where dog owners can exercise and play with their dogs without too much non dog distractions or harassment. Many talk about fears dog have of kids but lets not forget some kids have real fears of dogs too. They need to be as far away from each other as the park will allow. jmho