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The whole realtor fee really irks me.

When I was looking for my current place, I found it on Craigslist, called the number, the realtor met me at the apartment, opened the door, and that was it. There was no pre-interview or weeding out or anything of that nature.

I paid a month's rent to have someone unlock the door so I could see an apartment. It's ridiculous.

Personally, I think in that instance, the fee should be paid by the landlord. He/She goes through a realtor in order to have someone else worry about finding a tenant, screening people, advertising the apartment, etc.

If I walked into a realtor's office and said, "I want this and this and this in this area" and asked them to find it for me, then I'd be happy to pay the fee.

But to have to pay a person someone else decided to hire? That's insane.

Live and learn I suppose but that's the last time I look at an apartment with a fee.

I also think that in the last several years, the rental market in Jersey City has enjoyed an influx of new residents in August to October by recent college graduates with new jobs in the city looking for more affordable housing. However, the class of 2008 is I think largely unemployed still and probably not looking to move out on their own just yet.

Hi Brewster -

I have apartments downtown - and I'm always looking for new places to advertise vacancies.

So this weeks New York Magazine caught my eye. They had an article about cheap ways of finding apartments, and of course mentioned Craigslist...but then said there are some new alternatives.

Here's what they said:

Craigslist is king, but it?s not the world. Try Streeteasy.com, plus the online Times and Voice classifieds. RDNY.com and ListingSquare.com are less established but may also be worth a look.

I hope this helps,

Clay

www.jcity.org
www.walkandtalk.com

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
~Michael Jordan,

Well, I hope you're wrong, Brewster. I've never actually had to look for a tenant for our place on Third Street. Always either rented it to a friend, or lived in it ourselves. Now that I have to look, it's kind of intimidating.

I recently rented out my Hoboken condo and rented a place for me + the bf in Hamilton Park. Apt hunting was an absolute pleasure... lots of great stuff to see.
Renting was a bit hairy, took over 2 weeks to find a tenant, which for Hoboken is HIGHLY unusual, and I did have to drop the rent $50 as Brewster is considering. I did not, however, rely on craigslist. I used 2 Hoboken websites + The Hoboken Repoerter to advertise the place. While I did get a lot of phone calls on it, the people who came to see it appeared to be doing more "browsing" than serious hunting. I advertised it myself because I assumed no one would be into paying a realtor's fee and that using a realtor would really hold things up.
***wrong! wrong! wrong!** Should've used a realtor from day 1. They can weed out the nonserious lookers and my time is not wasted. Once I got a good realtor involved, it took 3 days to find a tenant, and the tenant paid the realtor's fee, not me. So there's some interesting food for thought.

again it's coop, not condo. So if you plan to buy make sure you review the building's financial statement carefully first.

I think the 500+/- sf condo is only worth 60k to 80k depending on floor level.

Has the rental market slowed? Absolutely, as everything else has. Crazy slow? No, I don't think so. Rentals are much harder to track than sales are since the majority of them are not on the MLS so it's always hard to say.

But I definitely have noticed that now that lending has tightened and less and less people can get loans, more are renting. History has shown that the rental market *usually* goes in the opposite direction of the sales market, which makes sense. People still need to move, it's just a matter of which is smarter at the given time, renting or buying.

In addition to that, though there are a lot of people still shopping around, the kicker is that many are not moving on anything. It's kind of like things have halted in many degrees and most people say they're waiting to see how things pan out on Wall street and of course the election. Consumer confidence is incredibly low right now.

But as always, things priced to market are moving. We sent out our October report and it was a stronger month than September especially in terms of volume. Unlike a lot of places where NOTHING is moving AT ALL, correctly priced property is moving in downtown and especially in Hoboken. But 2005 is long gone and hopefully won't ever come back.

FWIW
From what I've been told, the management company did re-do over half the units (maybe around 2003) but most of the rest of the places (the co-ops) are often way more run down and hence are much cheaper -- and maybe you saw a freshly re-done place by the management company and keep in mind that it was a one bedroom and not a studio.

But I may well be wrong...

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FWIW, I looked at a 1BR apartment in Metropolis back in 2003-2004 and it was $1350.

It is always true that November through March is always the slowest rental time of the year -- But Alb, I just looked on Craigslist and the ONLY 2 Bedroom for rent at Grove Pointe on the whole site is $3200 per month.

http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/abo/907346566.html

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Hey Man....I am actually looking to move in the next month or two...I might very well be interested in the apt you mention...Please contact me...Thanks

Idea: put "real fresh apartment, not old spam" in subject line, so people know it's not a spam fake. Maybe people are burning out because of the spam.

Also: I saw a flier for a 2-bedroom apartment in Grove Pointe for something like $2,600 per month. Maybe the renter is rich and doesn't need to get a whole lot, and maybe the unit is a crummy unit, but that sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

If the number of ads for cheap units has dropped, that could be because demand is strong, but it could be that the brokers can't afford to advertise them as well, or that brokers are marketing them through some Web site other than Craigslist that people here aren't mentioning.

Example: I haven't looked that hard at Google ads lately, but does it have apartment ads on there somewhere.

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I don't think so, 7th & Coles. I really try to put everything I can into the ads, photos inside and out, layout drawing w room dimensions.

The current tenants have been there for like 6 years with minimal rent hikes, so we raised it 10% to the $1100 figuring it should go, we have another similar unit renting for that, albeit on the 2nd rather than 4th floor.

I guess we'll have to reduce the asking for it and another slightly less nice unit for which we're asking $1050. It's just not worth losing a months rent to gain the equivalent of a months rent on the lease. Most of our tenants don't stay more than 1-3 years anyhow, they're young and move on to larger places when they make more money or move in with their fiances.

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No, I'm not kidding. I don't know anyone who lives, or would want to live in the Metropolis Towers. My point, if you read the post is that there are not a lot of "cheaper" brownstone type rentals in the $1500 range. There are a TON of $3,000+ rentals in those new units. Just look at the listings as I stated in Sunday's JC Reporter. Compare the amount of say $1700 and under listings with that of a year ago. I remember seeing columns and columns of listings. You will be lucky to see 4 or 5 now.

No doubt the rental market has slowed. Rentals in Manhattan have dropped for the first time in the memory of many renters. I know several people who have abandoned their out borough housing to take advantage of the falling Manhattan rental market.

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Grove, weren't we supposed to go Halvesies on that unit?! Whatever happened to those auctions. Curious what the right price is for a 500sq foot roach infested studio owned by the IRS...can't be much!!

Anyway, I agree w/ Wibbit, that the rental market will not be taking off for quite a while. Lot of job loss, less demand to buy, so the guy trying to sell is stuck with a place they don't really want and what's the next best thing to do? Rent it out. But if you can't find a renter, ya gotta lower the price. I can't tell you how many places I've seen around Paulus hook either for sale or rent and a few that were formerly for sale, that are now for rent.

Of course, judging from what I pay, I can tell you most of the fliers i've seen for the Paulus Hook Apts are unrealistically high. Just b/c someone bought a place for too much, doesn't mean you need to cover their high mortgage payment!

Edit: Brewster, $1100/mo seems pretty reasonable, unless it's in a really sh*tty neighborhood...

Wibbit,

The Metropolis Towers is a really bad example - it was built way back in the 1960's -- it has always been among the cheapest rentals Downtown. Posters always point out that the decks lean way down, that there are roaches & mice -- and a bunch of units just went up for sale at an IRS auction really cheap.

I think the studios in there have only ever rented for $1250, but I do agree that there has been a loss of jobs on the waterfront!

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are you kidding...it's not that the target population is switching from buying to renting, the problem is the population size is cut significantly. So demand dropped.

It's crystal clear the writings are on the wall. Just look at metropolis tower (270/280 marin) in paulus hook, a year ago you are lucky to find a rental there. Now they are actively advertising their rentals, you can get a studio there now for only $1250. This is one of the most popular rentals due to the location, and a good barometer.

What about storefronts Downtown? Are they renting?

2 Storefronts near us just went on the market - they are near Monmouth. (I checked and one is by owner $1275/sign says 201.282.7320 -- While the other is renting for $1800+ some kind of an American Realty Fee)

Otherwise, I don't see any storefronts for rent on Newark Avenue Downtown...

Oh yeah I forgot -- the old gun store location is still up for rent, but that is a good thing!

I hope Obama getting us out of Iraq will help the economy.

I have definitely noticed a lot more for rent signs downtown. When I was looking for an apartment last summer, I couldn't find anything less than 1500 downtown so I had to use a broker . Still, given the affordable price and location I'm surprised people aren't jumping on it. Good luck renting it out.

I can't imagine why the rental market would be slow. Seriously. Maybe the $3,000+/per month places, but there is a lack of $1500 range places. Since no one dares buy anything (even if they can), it stands to reason that they would rent in the interim. Just open the Jersey City Reporter. You will be lucky to find 3 listings. About a year ago, there were easily 15 or more.

Ironically, my rent has just gone UP for the first time in 5 years (now $1300 for a 1BR).

those spammers are annoying, they are basically using craiglist to bump up their website's ranking on google. But the lack of interest on your rental has nothing to do with craigslist, it's all fundamental.

The main population which rents in downtown jc work around the jc waterfront, newport, and manhattan financials to a lesser extent, i would say the workforce in those areas have been cutdown by more than 50% in the recent few months or maybe weeks. Goldman just started their layoffs this week. In addition, there's paycuts and little bonus for the employees still working there, it all adds up.

One of the best thing you can do right now if cant find a tenent, is to offer a month to month or 3/6month contract instead of the standard 1 year. As many people working around here are uncertain of their future noone is going to sign a 1 year contract, but a shorter term contract which they can get out of if got fired would be attractive.

If you think the rental market is bad, checkout the real estate market. Ask the guys at 77 hudson how their 600k 1br sales is doing ;)

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I would imagine the rental mkt has slowed down a ton - Lots of condos people want to rent, lot of people losing their jobs, etc.

As for your second comment, I noticed the same thing when looking at their real estate for sale section. A company called New York Living Solutions (NYLS) always is spamming that board. It makes it impossible to find "real" condos for sale. I used to flag them as "overpost" but there are far too many these days to do that...

I'm a little startled that for the first time in a long time I've gotten almost no responses to a craigslist ad for an under $1100 1 bedroom downtown. Last year they were calling as soon as the ad was up! Has the market shifted that radically?

I must also say, Craigs is doing a crappy job of reigning in the spamming realtors. There's one crew, Prudential Sussex Realty, reposting the same set of ads every day.

at Sutton the guards and construction workers are great just don't try dealing with CMC for your security panel (um I moved in in March and it's still not set up) nor Gold Coast and their lack of hours for support. Most of the amenities they promised have yet to surface and the condo association is impossible to get ahold of or answer your questions, the guy collecting the money has an email address that bounces back everytime. And warning don't expect it to be Mac friendly. I'm still waiting for this wireless community promised on their advertising page.

too far from PATH but Beacon is nice 4 pioneers

Wow! Those are some nice apartments. I cannot even imagine living in a place that nice. It reminded me of a room with no specific purpose that my aunt would never let us go into when we were younger.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10302008/ ... ainst_the_wall_135896.htm


Ankur Randev and his wife, Rachna, live at Trump Plaza Jersey City.


Ankur Randev and his wife, Rachna, departed Midtown for Trump Plaza Jersey City.


Sean Corolan and his wife, Magdalena, recently purchased a condo at Ivy House.


AWAY FROM THE FRAY: Pink Elephant's Rocco Ancarola moved from NoLita to a three-bedroom rental in Jersey City.


READY FOR THE SPOTLIGHT: The Beacon condo development (top), which used to be a hospital, now has amenities including a screening room (bottom), a swimming pool and a sauna.

UP AGAINST THE WALL -- JERSEY CITY TAKES STOCK

By ADAM BONISLAWSKI
New York Post
October 30, 2008

James Keating doesn't work on Wall Street. But living in Jersey City, he's had a front-row seat to the financial sector's recent traumas.

Keating, a resident of the Beacon condo development, takes his building's free shuttle to the PATH train each morning. The day of the Lehman Brothers collapse, he sat across from two of his fellow residents - one an employee at Lehman and the other an employee at Merrill Lynch (which sold itself to Bank of America just a few days later). They were, of course, discussing what fates awaited them at the office.

"One of them was saying to the other that he wondered if he should have brought a cardboard box with him to collect his things," recalls Keating, vice president of marketing at Shopwiki.com.

Such is life these days on "Wall Street West," as Jersey City is often called, given the area's close ties to Manhattan's investment world. Home to some 24,000 finance jobs and to thousands more residents who work in the industry across the river in Manhattan, Jersey City's fortunes are very much entwined with those of Wall Street.

Which, given the markets' current woes, probably isn't the most reassuring fact in the world. Especially if you're trying to sell Jersey City real estate.

"What's going on right now is scary," says Dean Geibel, managing partner of Metro Homes, the development company that built the Trump Plaza Jersey City condo tower. "It has a lot of people sitting on the sidelines. Sales haven't come to a halt, but it's slower because people are being cautious."

The 440-unit building (plans for a second 417-unit tower are on hold) has sold 375 apartments since going to market at the end of 2006. With the market slowing, however, the building is offering concessions like six months of free parking, although Geibel says he has yet to resort to price cuts (currently, one-bedrooms start at $495,000, two-bedrooms at $799,000 and three-bedrooms at $899,000).

Sales are similarly slow at developer K. Hovnanian's 77 Hudson, which, with prices averaging around $850 per square foot, is one of Jersey City's priciest buildings. On sale since July 2007, apartments in the 420-unit building are only 30 percent sold.

Tom Graham, the building's senior community director, says that K. Hovnanian is covering transfer taxes and other closing costs in an effort to lure buyers to the building. Nevertheless, Graham admits, sales office traffic is down 15 to 20 percent since September.

Curiously, though, Graham notes that the week Congress began discussion of the bailout plan, sales at 77 Hudson were relatively strong, with five units purchased - all by international buyers. Which raises the question - just how essential are Wall Street workers to Jersey City's housing market?

"When we first started marketing, our target market was the Wall Street buyer," Graham says. "But it turns out that's not who's been buying."

Then again, with close to 300 units still unsold, it's going to take more than foreign buyers, who have also been hit hard by the world's falling markets.

Still, Jamie LeFrak, managing director of the LeFrak Organization, similarly suggests that Jersey City's Wall Street ties have been overblown.

"The whole region is in the same boat together. Brooklyn is tied to the financial sector. Queens is tied to the financial sector. You could make the same exact statement about Bergen County, Westchester County, Nassau County," says LeFrak, whose Jersey City projects consist of nearly 5,000 residential units and will soon include the new 350-unit Aquablu rental building (studios start at $2,079, one-bedrooms at $2,257, two-bedrooms at $2,808 and three-bedrooms at $3,885).

Then again, Keating estimates that more than a third of his neighbors at the Beacon work in finance.

"You can definitely see the fear," he says. "People are going around asking each other, 'Are you going to be all right?' "

And Beacon developer George Filopoulos has changed his plans to build an adjacent 103-unit condo building, opting instead for 26 3,000- to 6,000-square-foot live/work lofts (with prices starting around $900,000) - a hedge against reduced demand.

"I wanted to offer something different from what's on the market," Filopoulos says. "We have to admit that there may be less buyers to go around than there were in 2005."

The Beacon's first building had nearly sold out by early 2008, with apartments in the 315-unit building going for under $500 per square foot. Fifty of those sales fell through, however, when the buyers were unable to secure financing. Since those 50 units returned to the market this September, five of them have sold.

But there are signs of hope in Jersey City. Near the Grove Street PATH station is Ivy House, a boutique condo building from Fields Development Group and TreeTop Development, which has sold 15 of its 18 units since going on sale at the beginning of July. With prices around $500 per square foot, the units are aimed at entry-level buyers, a demographic, says Fields principal James Caulfield, that's been under-served by new construction.

Retail planning director Sean Corolan and his wife, Magdalena, bought a two-bedroom in the building. Although nervous about the effects of the downturn, he's convinced that the area's relatively low prices will help protect his investment.

"We definitely talked about it: 'Is this a good time to buy with everything that's going on?' " he says. "But the thing I always come back to is that I see such a big discount in price per square foot. You can't even get close to this on price in Brooklyn."

And, of course, the proximity to Manhattan (the Financial District is just a five-minute PATH ride away), which helped tie Jersey City to Wall Street in the first place, won't be going away - regardless of what the market does.

"I'm still very confident that this area is going to appreciate," says hospitality industry executive Ankur Randev, who, with his wife Rachna, moved from Midtown to Trump Plaza Jersey City in June.

"At the end of the day, you're five minutes from lower Manhattan, but you have a $500-per-square-foot spread in price."

And then there are those who don't want anything to do with living in New York, anyway.

Manhattan nightclub owner Rocco Ancarola (of Pink Elephant fame) moved from NoLita to a three-bedroom rental by the Grove Street PATH stop three years ago. Since then, he's gotten hooked on his neighborhood's peace and quiet.

"I wake up in the morning in a Zen-like atmosphere," he says. "I can't wait to get back to New Jersey after my work in the city."

And, by the way, if you're a developer worried about luring buyers from across the river in this current climate, well, listen up - Ancarola has some good news.

"You put my name and picture in the paper, people will be flocking to Jersey City," he jokes.

So there's that, at least.

----------
Market watch

TRUMP PLAZA JERSEY CITY

The 440-unit tower (one-bedrooms start at $495,000) has sold 375 condos, with units averaging around $700 per square foot. Plans for a second building are on hold.

77 HUDSON

The 420-unit building, with condos averaging around $850 per square foot, is 30 percent sold. One buyer bought two penthouse units, a combined 4,188 square feet, for $6 million last year.

THE BEACON

Fifty units in the 315-unit building, with condos selling for less than $500 per square foot, returned to the market this September. Five have sold. In early 2007, a two-story penthouse sold for $2.3 million.

IVY HOUSE

This 18-unit boutique building, with prices around $500 per square foot, has sold 15 condos since hitting the market in July.

==============================================
Also curbed had this:
http://curbed.com/archives/2008/10/30 ... o_be_feeling_the_hurt.php

Jersey City Appears to be Feeling the Hurt
curbed.com
Thursday, October 30, 2008, by Joey

The condo boom that swept over the city and settled across the Hudson (it managed to survive fording the river, unlike so many cattle in "Oregon Trail") is now looking like a condo bust, at least in Jersey City. Not too long ago, blog The Life Vicarious wrote that the waterfront Trump Plaza Jersey City (name licesned by The Donald, 'natch) was delaying the start of construction on its second tower. If fact, TLV wrote, "The Trump building is looking more and more like a headstone for Jersey City's highrise boom." Today the Post provides an update on the Jersey City market, and while the paper isn't ready to bury the whole town quite yet, there are some troubling tidbits. First, on Trump:

The 440-unit building (plans for a second 417-unit tower are on hold) has sold 375 apartments since going to market at the end of 2006. With the market slowing, however, the building is offering concessions like six months of free parking, although Geibel says he has yet to resort to price cuts (currently, one-bedrooms start at $495,000, two-bedrooms at $799,000 and three-bedrooms at $899,000).

But Jersey City's dependence on Wall Streeters and foreign buyers isn't hurting just the Trump building, of course:

Sales are similarly slow at developer K. Hovnanian's 77 Hudson, which, with prices averaging around $850 per square foot, is one of Jersey City's priciest buildings. On sale since July 2007, apartments in the 420-unit building are only 30 percent sold. Tom Graham, the building's senior community director, says that K. Hovnanian is covering transfer taxes and other closing costs in an effort to lure buyers to the building.

Will things get worse in Jersey City before they get better? Well, if the empty lot that was supposed to be Trump Jersey City II becomes a huge Tent City, do let us know.