Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

Posted by JCvoter on 2018/7/6 10:42:59
A bad grade for diplomacy but extra merit for deflection as Fulop successfully shifted the narrative away from the rampant power of developers in this city. We should be talking about how and why our public spaces are being shaped to benefit profiteers over those who live and work here.

I do however feel you are mistaken regarding individual collaborators as the amendment in question is aimed specifically at anyone who attributes the Polish Nation or State as being complicit in the holocaust.

""The legislation concerns only accusations of collective responsibility by the Polish Nation or Polish State for German Nazi Crimes," said spokeswoman Ma?gorzata Safianik of the Polish embassy in Washington. "It does not seek to deny nor does it apply towards charges of individual collaboration by Polish nationals during World War II."" ... ing-polish-holocaust-law/

The point is moot because the damage is done, ordinary residents who oppose the removal of the statue now find themselves aligned with Polish Nationalists, anti-semites and Twitter shit stains like Jack Posobiec.
The opposite is also true, as per your assertion - "I wouldn’t roll over for Poland’s Stanislaw Karczewski, nor should you." the removal of the statue can now be framed as an heroic blow against Nationalism and not the craven capitulation to Mike DeMarcos deep pockets.

Given the groundswell of opposition against the statue's removal it would be foolish of the council to not now overturn the ordinance. Fulop loyalists among them must realize that forcing a referendum would be a complete waste of money with nothing but the prospect of humiliating defeat at the end of it.

The statue is bizarrely macabre and, yes, jarring but it is uniquely ours. A testament as much to this city's recent political history as the tragedy that inspired it and now, in years to come, a defiant reminder that we are not an homogenous extension of Battery Park.

The statue stays.


The Mayor probably gets a bad grade for his diplomacy, but reacting to button-pushing is a challenge for all of us. I wouldn’t roll over for Poland’s Stanislaw Karczewski, nor should you.

Thanks in large part to Karczewski’s efforts, the Polish government enacted a law making it a crime to suggest complicity in any events of the Holocaust on behalf of any of the Polish people or on any part of their government. Violators can be fined or jailed for up to three years.

If you’re willing to believe that NOT ONE SOUL in Poland was complicit IN ANY WAY, of saving their own life by turning on their neighbors, you’re free to do so, but that would be naive. Remember, there were Americans colluding with our enemies, and they weren’t even in danger. That doesn’t necessarily cast aspersions on either of our nations, but facts are facts, and they should not be suppressed.

As a compromise, would you believe that maybe ONE person in all of Poland—just one—aided the Nazis? If so, it’s important to understand that it would be illegal in Poland to speak about it, even if you have proof. Somebody like you, a person confident enough to stand at a podium in City Hall and speak her mind—exercising her freedom of speech—could go to jail for talking about it. Even if she was wrong, does that seem right to you?

As far as the memorial goes, it is uniquely jarring, and by its own virtues, belongs in a venue where it has the potential to be more appropriately contemplated.

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